Modern 350 Marinizing

[LMannyR]

I've read the DIY Mrinizing quite a bit. I've learned quit a bit from the forum as a result. There hasn't been a thread that talks about marinizing modern engines with the electronics (ecu, sensors, etc). What happens to the electronics? Without the electronics, does efficiency/economy/logevity reduce?

Gonzo - Yes I know that it will be cheaper to "just" rebuild an old marine engine. What are good sources for such used engines?

I'd like to marinize a 2005 - newer engine. Aside from the list below, what else needs to be done (specifically the electronics).

(Gonzo's list from http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1650
Thanks!!)

*carburator has bowl vent into the throat
*fuel injection system is of the closed type-no fuel return line
*starter is ignition protected
* alternator is ignition protected
*fuel pump, if of the diafragm type, has double diafragm and overflow fuel line into the intake
*gaskets with metal mesh or sheet are stainless steel
*coolant circulating pump has stainless steel shaft
*valves are stainless steel
*freeze plugs are bronze
*camshaft is of the correct torque curve design for the application
*Intake manifold, if aluminum, has bronze inserts on water passages
*oil pump is high delivery
*pistons are high performance-designed for extended high RPM service
*Marine blocks and heads have nickel added to the alloy for corrosion resistance and toughness-not necessary but desirable
*roller type timing chain

I know there are lots of questions but I didn't want to start a thread for each one. Thanks in advance for any help given.

Luis

[Frosty]

There are a few people on this forum that would disagree with that compehesive list, I am one of them.

However it does mostly depend on what you want to do with the engine. I mean a little tootle round an eclosed lake or off shore fishing.

There has just been and interesting discusion on electonic injection or carburettor, I have to say that the carb came out the winner for a boat engine at this particular time.

This being the case all your oxygen sensors and the like become uneccesary.

[LMannyR]

The Rig will be dropped on a 23' Renken Seamaster (cuddy, walk around). The boat will be used for Intercoastal cruises, possible going 10-15 miles out for fishing, maybe skiing, etc. It'll be a family activity boat mostly.

[tuantom]

What was the original engine in the boat? If the original engine and the new are both, for example, small block chevys, you're half-way there.

Most of the auto electronics out of a modern engine will have to go as its computer can't adjust to what you're asking. I looked into this about a year ago; and in the end I put all the original carbureted components onto my new engine. The thread Frosty refers to lists some of the manufacturers of throttle body systems - but, IMO, the cost far exceeds the benefit. If matched up properly, carbureted boat motors actually run pretty clean. That said - If you can salvage a complete fuel injection system from a wrecked boat, and the price is right, that'd be an attractive option.

[LMannyR]

tuantom,

Currently, there is a 5.0L carb V8 Yamaha. I believe thats a small block chevy.

How can I match the following "right" to run clean?

Thanks for the response.

[tuantom]

When I say burn clean, I just mean boats aren't subjected to frequent squirts from the accelerator pump like a car would be. That extra squirt of gas every time you hit the gas was responsible for a lot of the carbon build up and higher fuel consumption. When running at steady rpm's, a carb could be fairly efficient.
The right setup is just a carburetor calibrated for your engine's needs. The one you have may work with some tuning, I don't know as I've never worked with a Rochester; but a manual can tell you specs. The easiest way is stick to whatever Yamaha put on their 5.7 engine (maybe same as yours) - and if that's hard to find (as Yamaha hasn't sent a I/O unit this way for a decade or more) - there are plenty of 350 carburetors off of Mercruisers, Volvos, and OMCs, that are already calibrated for that motor. I'd think Chevy supplied pretty much the same engines to all the manufacturers.

[LMannyR]

I really have to disagree. ECM engines created are MORE effecient, clean, and powerful engine. I'm not aware of all marine engines made today but the ones I do know, all make ecm controlled engines. There is a good reason why it's so.

So lets say I rebuild the current block, can't I just pull all the electronics from a similar engine and retrofit? Only snag I find is reprogramming the ECM. I was hoping this was done many times by many people by now. I'll google now...

[tuantom]

"If you can salvage a complete fuel injection system from a wrecked boat, and the price is right, that'd be an attractive option."


I agree they are better. If I were buying new, I know I'd go that way. How much money do you want to spend? Is the boat worth it? I don't know. I just think if you have the setup for a carburetor already, it's the fastest, easiest and cheapest way to go.

My point was - the efficiency gains a boat engine sees (unintended) are not as great as the gains a car would achieve.

[LMannyR]

Let me clarify a bit. Can I pull the parts off an auto and bolt it on? Auto engines are just so cheap. Why not use it, keeping safety in mind? The

Only problem I really see is the Oxygen sensor in the wet exhaust? Are there "dry" exhaust manifolds available for marine use? Obviously I would also have to install a heat exchange unit.

[gonzo]

Auto engines use a pump on the fuel tank. That would pressurize the line going to the engine. Marine pumps are mounted on the block. That alone makes the whole injection system a problem in a boat.

[gonzo]

Have you found parts for your engine? I have a new GM350HO with two hours on it that froze and cracked the block.

[LMannyR]

I moved away from the engine chapter. My time is concentrated on restoring the the rest of the boat. As was stated above, if the price is right then why not?

What are you asking and for what specifically?

[broke_not]

Auto engines use a pump on the fuel tank. That would pressurize the line going to the engine. Marine pumps are mounted on the block. That alone makes the whole injection system a problem in a boat.

Hi,

New here....and just wanting some clarification. I know this thread is a bit dated, but I came across it while searching the 'net for similar information.

Anyway, what I'm wondering is why the in-tank fuel pump would rule out, (or at least make the installation problematic), on an automotive-type EFI engine in a boat application? The reason I ask is that many of the industrial/construction engines I work on every day use automobile-type EFI systems. While it's true that most automobile fuel pumps on such applications are mounted in the tank....not all of them are.

Many of the same engines we see that come from automobile/light truck manufacturers, and are equipped with in-tank pumps in their normal road-going applications, nix the in-tank pump for their industrial or construction applications.

On some of our stuff, this pump is used:

Napa inline EFI pump (http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPages/NOLMaster.aspx?PageId=470&LineCode=BSH&PartNumber=N69100&Description=Fuel+Pump+-+Electric+In-Line+Type)

Other use slightly different pumps, but you get the idea. Since the pump is inline, it can be mounted almost anywhere. Closer to the tank is better of course, since electric pumps always "push" better than they "pull". On several of the pieces of equipment, the engine is on the opposite side of the machine as the fuel tank is. Six or seven feet of hose lead from the tank to the pump inlet, and as long as they aren't run completely out of fuel there aren't any issues. On some of the engines, the output pressure to the fuel rail is regulated by a three line combination fuel filter/pressure regulator.

The pump simply has an inlet line coming from the tank, and an outlet to the filter/regulator. The filter/regulator is also an inline device, so mounting it anywhere is easy to do as well. One line comes into it from the pump, one line out is a return to the tank.....and the third line out is to send fuel at the correct pressure to the fuel rail.

It seems like this same setup could be easily applied to a marine application.....or am I missing something?

[gonzo]

The return line would be the first problem on a boat. It is a pressurized line. The feed line is also under pressure, which makes it difficult to make compliant with regulations. Another problem is fuel overheating. Most marine fuel injection systems have a fuel cooling part. Fuel lines have to either be metal or USCG compliant. It can be done, but there are plenty of marine fuel injected systems and engines availble. I think that unless you are doing it as a hobby project it makes no sense to spend the extra time and money. You will also end up with a product that has less value than a standard factory setup.

[broke_not]

Hmmmm.....I wouldn't think finding rated line would be an issue, it's pretty common stuff nowadays. How do fuel overheating issues arise in a system that constantly pumps the fuel in a loop? Years ago, problems like vapor locking were a constant battle....but having fuel at higher pressures in the lines and constantly moving in a loop did away with all of that.

I'll admit that I'm not familiar with marine regulations for this stuff, but the industrial stuff I see daily really can't behave all that differently....

[gonzo]

Tanks in boats are not exposed to air like in a car. There is no radiant heat escaping. Also, engine compartments are closed and get very hot after stopping the engine. Fuel will boil and cause hard hot starts. A fuel cooling system prevents that. A return line into the tank makes it pressurized which raises the question of how to make it comply with regualtions. It is possible but more expensive and complicated than using a already made for marine applications system. I believe that only as a hobby it can be justified because of the extra time and expenses .

[broke_not]

I understand what happens during a "hot soak", but it almost seems as if you're trying to say that fuel injection systems are somehow inferior in such situations. The industrial stuff I'm comparing boat applications to, also has enclosed engine compartments, enclosed fuel tanks, etc. There's absolutely no comparison between a carbureted and fuel injected engine when it comes to which setup is superior....EFI wins every time. Higher pressure in the fuel lines, and constantly pumping the fuel in a loop has made fuel percolation a non-issue.

Add to that the fact that when not running or cranking the injector(s) are switched off, (whereas a carburetor bowl sitting there full of gas and exposed to the high underhood temps during a hot soak can dribble into the intake as the fuel heats up and expands making hot-starts difficult), and I don't see how EFI can possibly be thought to be a disadvantage....

[gonzo]

I think you are misunderstanding, I am talking about marine EFI

[broke_not]

How is marine EFI any different than any other EFI? What on a marine fuel injection system makes its performance characteristics/reliability/advantages any different than any other non-marine EFI system?

This in particular is what I'm wondering about:

Tanks in boats are not exposed to air like in a car. There is no radiant heat escaping. Also, engine compartments are closed and get very hot after stopping the engine. Fuel will boil and cause hard hot starts

Every EFI setup I'm aware of is less prone to heat issues than a carburetor setup would be in the same application.....regardless of what that application may be.

Whether by accident or design, the very things that cause issues such as you described have been dealt with, (and done away with), in an EFI system.

[gonzo]

Yes they have. That is why a marine fuel injection system works better on a boat than an automotive type. Also, it is legal. I am not sure what are you disputing. Where did carburetors come into the discussion. Perhaps you need to go back and read the posts before arguing a point or claiming I am making one.

[broke_not]

I am not sure what are you disputing.

Well, starting from page one:

Auto engines use a pump on the fuel tank. That would pressurize the line going to the engine. Marine pumps are mounted on the block. That alone makes the whole injection system a problem in a boat.

Not all automotive EFIs use a tank-mounted pump. In-line ones are easy to obtain and can be mounted pretty much anywhere.

Then there's this:

Another problem is fuel overheating.

What would cause "fuel overheating" in an EFI setup?

Tanks in boats are not exposed to air like in a car. There is no radiant heat escaping. Also, engine compartments are closed and get very hot after stopping the engine. Fuel will boil and cause hard hot starts.

Once again, how are EFI systems affected by the heat? The fuel being pumped in a loop, coupled with the higher pressures in the fuel lines make EFI systems pretty bulletproof when it comes to dealing with heat.

Where did carburetors come into the discussion.

They didn't....directly. But after you mentioned the supposed issues EFI systems have dealing with heat, enclosed areas, etc., it certainly sounds as if you're implying that one of the characteristics associated with EFI systems is that dealing with the hot environments isn't their strong suit. Then again, perhaps you were just commenting in general about marine fuel systems having to deal with heat....and not EFI in particular. But if that were the case, why list the supposed heat issues right after the statement about the problem of having to run a return line?

The return line would be the first problem on a boat. It is a pressurized line. The feed line is also under pressure, which makes it difficult to make compliant with regulations. Another problem is fuel overheating.

:?:

Just for fun, I had two other people read the posts in this thread.....and they came to the same conclusions I did.;)

:D

[Art_H]

A few points;

1. Not all EFI auto systems use a fuel return system.
2. The high pressure fuel pumped into fuel rail meets a pressure regulator, where the excess fuel is bled back to the the tank. This return line should not be under high pressure as there is no resistance back to the tank.
3. How is a 'heat soak' in a marine application any worse than the hottest season in southern US for auto EFI in engine bay?
4. The truth is that 99% of carbs on any vehicle have not been tuned correctly. It is possible, certainly with the wideband O2 sensors now to make a carb almost as efficient as EFI, but it still cannot account for all the changes in power demand.
5. The cost and pain of refitting the EFI was mentioned. I personally would give a lot of effort to gain more fuel efficiency.
6. Why would an auto EFI system not be marine aproved? Provided marine distributor etc. The 'MARINE' EFI uses all auto parts anyway I'm sure.

Biggest reason to go EFI, California is making some emmissions changes in a big way... a preview of the future. Like it or not, EFI may even be required on all boats in the future.

[TollyWally]

Art,
It is my understanding that the marine efi systems don't use o2 sensors in the same fashion as automotive systems. Others more knowledgable may correct me.

[Art_H]

No, not all do. I think the newer ones are. It is mentioned in the exhaust manifold sales info about having a bung for O2 sensors. That may just be for tuning purposes then pluged.

There are plenty of examples of EFI systems that do not run O2 sensors.

With the old style O2 sensors, they were not accurate anywhere except Stiochiometric @ 14.7:1 A/F. So it would move the A/F ratio back and forth over this ratio. At wide open throttle, the O2 is ignored anyway. O2 sensors not required, though much better with, certainly way better with the wide band O2. It just takes a little tuning. That alone is advanced for most people though. Like I said, most carbs are not tuned even in the ball park to where they could be. Carb tech is quite complex to understand fully, and even have the adjustments on the carb.

[gonzo]

Art_H
-Which automotive EFI don´t use return line?
-Return lines are not under high pressure, but under pressure anyway. It causes some legal and safety issues that are avoided by the marine version.
-The heat soak is worse because a boat engineroom is closed
-That 99% of carburetors are not properly adjusted is not true. If you are going to quote numbers in a forum of engineering geeks, please do your homework and don´t insult us with baloney
-How is a O2 sensor of any kind going to make a carburetor more efficient?
-Approvals are made by government or other organizations for specific applications. If it is approved for automotive use that is the scope of the authorization. It has nothing to do with whether it may work in other applications.

[TollyWally]

Hey Art,
I've got a new set of freshwater cooled manifolds for my BBC. It is my plan when I swap manifolds to install a steel plate spacer between the risers and the manifolds and tap it for 02 bungs. I think it will keep them dry enough to work, but it is a bit of a guess. My main motor dude thinks it will work and the new manifolds require some fab work anyhow so I am going to give it a shot. I was aiming for spring but now I will put it off till late fall. I'm not going to run efi but I do want to be able to tweak my carb and get some numbers to tune with.

I have a holley 650 spreadbore with vacuum secondaries. It is a model 4100 and DOES NOT have the detachable float bowls. I had to do a little remachining on the carb due to some stripped needle valves. Long story. I am still dialing it in and am having a few difficulties. I am not real experienced with carbs but hey I'm the guy that has to do it. Right now I think I have the secondary float set wrong. It's dribbling fuel into the secondaries at low rpm and flooding it out, I think.

In any event do you or anyone else out there have much experience dialing in a carb. I can use all the help I can find, LOL :). I have a fuel flow meter that I use religiosly and I figure later with an o2 reading I can get her dialed in as tight as possible for my cruise speed. I have a quick change kit on the diaphram for the vacuum secondaries and can play with that. Right now I can cruise where I want just before the secondaries open.

[gonzo]

What number power valve do you have?

[TollyWally]

I think they are 6.5's

[gonzo]

That is in the middle and should work. Make sure the gasket on them is the correct one. They are two types. If you use the wrong one, they will leak like you describe.

[TollyWally]

Gonzo,
Do you mean the wrong gasket on the power valve will cause the carb to dribble fuel into the secondaries at low rpm?

I have been assuming my float level was set incorrectly or my float was sticking. I did take a powervalve off and look at it to see what size it was. I put it back together with the old gasket which looked fine. I am fully capable of creating problems for myself. LOL

[gonzo]

Yes, if the gasket is the wrong type, it will let gas through at all times. The power valve opens when the vacuum in the manifold drops below a certain level- that is the number in PSI.

[Frosty]

http://books.google.com.my/books?id=oVZrJgUAlRYC&pg=PA86&lpg=PA86&dq=holley+carb+power+valve&source=bl&ots=JmZFtFr9jV&sig=nkf2ih5_CNeho2j1xS2xenwZx6s&hl=en&ei=V7k9Sv-VDqbq6gO1_pigDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4

Everything you need to know should be here

[TollyWally]

Thanks guys

[powerabout]

Reading this and other posts about the users describing what a marine engine is or isnt.
The items people list are close depending on the model.
If we talk Merc Chev V8's the stock ones are assembled by GM and have either the GM marine cam or the sellers design.
The main items I see as different to the car engine and quiet often inserted hardend push rod ends and higher quality valve springs,retainers etc and along with brass plugs, stainless head gaskets etc, and the whole electrical and fuel system.

Many of the components in the marine engines to increase reliability at sustained high revs ( although only as high as the auto engine reved at) end up in the auto stuff as and when it becomes viable due to volume.
Stock engines dont have oil coolers and if you drive at WOT in many of them the oil temp will go well over 250F so they get a hard time.
Many components can/are be re heat treated and or extra shot peened etc which would make them higher end components compared to stock and hence wind up in the marine production line. Rockers and retainers come to mind?

IF we talk about slightly higher production performance(SBC) engines like the old 280TRS , 300 and the 320 EFI Mercruiser these are very different ( and the Volvo 290) Still fully assembled by GM. These all had 4 bolt mains, bigger valve heads ( not 2.02) GM pink rods, TRW eyebrow style forged pistons ( but with fixed pins) steel cranks, heavy duty harmonic balancer, high volume oil pumps with hardened shafts, heavier pushrods, better quality valve springs, double roller chains ( on the flat tappet engines) Larger baffles sumps and main cap mounted solid windage tray.
Oil coolers (vendor supplied but always too small) aluminum inlets with bronze water crossover ( Volvo had the old70's LT1 style cast iron high rise)
Crane cams but they usually will not supply you as they OEM'd them to the vendors. But not SS exhaust valves.
Just check the parts book.

BBC
454/330 Merc read like stock 350/260, then from the old 370, 400, 420, 425, 440, 460, 500 and on also read like the above but even tougher. mostly LS7 style stuff, rectangular port heads, large pushrods in guide plates, roller rockers, very heavy valve spring sets ( like safe to 7500!), Inconel exhaust valves, custom crane hyd cams and oil coolers that are too small.
So there's thats what I've seen working on them.
E&OE other GM stuff might be altered but either I never asked or couldn't tell by looking at it.

What did I think they needed for sustained WOT...floating wrist pins, cam buttons, larger sumps with the static oil level further away from the crank, larger oil coolers but I might have mentined that but with thermostat, screw in rocker studs, pushrod guide plates, roller tip or full roller rockers ( BBC has these) balance them, blueprint the oil pump and then a std volume std pressure one will do the job. You can block off the oil filter bypass too but its there for a reason.

[broke_not]

I just replaced the engine in a '98 Ski Nautique. It's rated at 320 hp and is the EFI-equipped variation known as the Apex. It was the highest hp rated variant of the 5.7 GM engines offered in this model boat from this model year. I disassembled it prior to ordering a long block to verify that it was indeed cracked, and despite what many folks want to believe, (including the boat's owner), there was absolutely nothing "special" or "heavier duty" about it at all.

A couple of phone calls and some checking of the numbers on the original engine verified this. Except for the dedicated marine components like the camshaft/frost plugs/gaskets, the engine is a standard 5.7 Vortec.

It doesn't have *special* pushrods, connecting rods, pistons, rocker arms, etc. It didn't come down some special marine-only assembly line, from which defective or second-rate parts are rejected and sent on to be haphazardly slapped into pickup trucks.

4400 or 4500 rpm for 10 or 15 minutes at a time towing a skier or group of people on a tube might seem like it's some sort of extreme duty, but it really isn't....all things considered. If the same power plant were in my light truck, it would see duty towing, cruising, idling, etc. It would also see duty in dusty and dirty conditions, and would also be expected to perform those duties from -30F to +100F where I live. If anything, a non-marine engine would need to be built tougher to survive around here.....doing what it's needed to do.....day-in, day-out....not just on a sunny weekend.

Yes, there are plenty of extreme conditions boats can see duty in. But seeing as this is a DIY Marinizing thread topic, let's not pretend the boats people are discussing here are something they're not. If the engines we're talking about are offered already in marine applications and are found in non-marine applications as well, there's no need to make it seem like swapping a few bits from one to the other approaches rocket science. It doesn't. It's a few nuts and bolts.

Cost seems to come up frequently as well. I suppose it would be very "cost-ineffective" to obtain a standard non-marine engine and then go to the trouble of converting it to marine specs by visiting the local marine dealer and buying brand spanking new parts off the shelf at the typical retail prices a dealer needs to charge to turn a profit. I really don't think many people would actually considering approaching a DIY conversion that way though.....what would be the point? New and used parts are available everywhere. You don't need to hop in a vehicle and drive to a place that has boats parked in rows out front if you want a marine camshaft, or a set of gaskets. Do some research and see what part numbers you'll need. Disregard the "expert" advise from people that say things like *special* unless they can provide specific info as to what *special* means. You'll hear all kinds of hooey about *special* rods/oil pumps/valves/whatever, but without details and knowing for sure, well.....then just open the wallet, invert it, and let gravity do the rest.:D

;)

[Frosty]

Exactly,---Ive been saying this for years. In Uk 40 years ago there was no such thing as marine egines for ski boats. Most engines Ford Uk ever made found its way into a boat, the only modification would be to an SU carb.

I bought a Mercruiser 225 V8 Chev engine 20 years ago. The block was cracked , I had it cold stitched because I didnt know it was just a 305 CI chev.

I was sucked in by the American "marine" hype. I could have bought a short motor for half the cost of repair, Oh well we live and learn.

Once I found this out I enjoyed most summers bolting on manifolds, new starter motors etc etc all from the American parts store.

Now we will get-- Oh it needs a stainless marine gasket, it needs anti spark starter, It needs a marine alternator and a fuel bowl breather.

No it does'nt "need" that ---your regs in US require that.

Ive seen an outboard set on fire but never ever seen an inboard, maybe im just lucky.

[powerabout]

Guys I was talking Mercrusier Sterndrives not DIY Ski Nautiques. Ski boats are not a Market Merc has much presence in.
Ski boats although do many full throttle starts dont sit at WOT for hours and over rev when jumping out of the water ( rev limiters are only a new thing)
and yes Frosty a 225 would have been a stock GM at that horespower as you said. (225's were from 1963-66 327ci. or 228 1982-84 305ci)
Too True Frosty well said "doesn't need but does to be USCG approved". The only one I would say it needs is SS head gaskets if you use it in sea water and the marine engine circulation pump, core plugs etc.
Australia had a very large DIY engine conversion business due to the fact we had all the US v8's and GM had its own Australian V8 as well. This was from the 60's and still running today for our ski boats. The US marinised engines were expensive then.
Today People are paying AUD70k+ for a imported rig now ( well last year anyway)..ouch.
Most laws in each state only made you run a flame arrestor on the carb.
I have seen plenty go bang when starting.
Never seen a proper USCG spec marinised engine go bang. Something the average faamily boater is interested in.
Aftet you see people torched in a boat you are extra careful when working on them especially in giving advice on fuel and electrical systems.

PS making a GM delco starter USCG spec is an easy as one drop of silicone in the right place.

[broke_not]

FWIW, I wasn't referring to any of the accessories that are bolted onto the engine itself. If a marine application recommends a USCG approved starter/ignition system/carb/whatever, then I wouldn't recommend doing without it. I was talking about engines, as in.....the engine itself. There's just as much, (if not more), confusion and lack of clear info out there about the short or long block itself, which is why I mentioned some of the terms frequently tossed around.

"It has *special* rods/rocker arms/rods/pistons/block/oil pump/valves/whatever".

Do those components exist? Sure they do. Does that mean every marine engine is built from the ground up containing nothing but these <cough> *special* <cough> components? Hardly.

Suppose a person reading this thread already has a boat and wants to "marinize" a non-marine auto or light truck engine. Just like the example Frosty mentioned with the cracked block, the boat owner simply wants to obtain and install a replacement engine. The boat owner already has the starter/carb/ignition sitting there on their otherwise unusable "marine" engine.

Why does the topic need to be muddied up with all of this nonsense about these *special* parts that exist out there, and why the *special* conditions of pushing a boat from point A to point B require these *special* parts, and using anything other than these *special* parts just might cause the boat to spontaneously sink upon contacting the water?

I think what might be going on, is that some folks that haven't dealt with anything but marine stuff are probably not familiar with the internals of a non-marine engine. If they were, they wouldn't be so adamant about the "special-ness" of the typical run-of-the-mill boat engine.

;)

[Frosty]

Actually if there IS anything different its the cam. Some high performance cams have overlap and encourage reversion which is not good on a water injected exhaust.

As well as this, a marine cam is more of a 4 wheeler cam not because of any special metals but it brings the torque and HP down to RPM that can be used best.

Then there is the distributor --if you have one that does not have vacuum advance, easy to disconnect but.

[broke_not]

Yep, I mentioned the marine cam....and that's the kind of stuff I mean when I say "marinizing" the engine. Folks get spooked by the very thought that someone would consider "marinizing" a non-marine engine. They always mention the plethora of marine accessories that are bolted onto a standard non-marine engine to convert it to boat use. It seems that they fail to consider the boat owner's intent. If a person posts a question in a "DIY Marinizing" thread, it's because they want to make a non-marine engine suitable for boat use.

If the boat owner simply goes to a scrapyard and pulls a used engine out of a car or truck and drops it into place with it's original gaskets/frost plugs/ starting/charging/fuel/ignition systems completely intact, they've made no attempt to "marinize" anything, they aren't asking any questions about marinizing, and they aren't interested in marinizing.

If that same boat owner buys the auto or truck engine and asks what a comparable "marine" engine of the same make and model contains, then the actual differences should be explained. In detail. *Special this* or *special that* is all pie-in-the-sky and means nothing.

Well, 'cept of course that *special* is always harder to obtain and more expensive.

If the boat owner had his original "marine" engine pulled out and sitting next to his recently obtained replacement "non-marine" engine, it would take a half day of labor working at an extremely leisurely pace to get the job done. Throw in a few $$ for the gaskets/frost plugs/proper cam, and what you end up with is something that has fallen far short of the mythical and mysterious processes some people want to convince the masses are required to get their machinery back on the water.

:D