Looking at a boat in rough shape [Archive]

durwoodghib

07-05-2007, 04:47 PM

Greetings,
This is my first time here posting anything so be gentle. I was driving down the road the other day and saw a 16 ft. American Fiberglass Corp. Sailboat for sale. This would be a project boat. It was last licensed in 2000 and the body looks to be in rough shape in my opinion. It is oxidized heavily and in need of a bath. What I am most concerned with is the housing around the center board. I crawled under the boat, as best I could, and didn't see much problem from there, but from the top side it is cracked all the way around the base of it. Also the seating area is “pulled” away from the hull a little in the very back of the boat. I am guessing the boat is made with the bottom being a different part from the top but was still concerned. The mast and boom look to be in good shape along with the plastic coated rigging cables. The rigging ropes would have to be replaces along with all of the wooden parts. I have no clue what kind of shape the sails were in or if it even had any sails as they were not with the boat.
Is it repairable is it worth looking into further?
What would sail(s) cost if needed replaced?
These are some of the questions in my head right now, so if anyone would like to voice their opinions I would love to hear from you. If you would like more info I will try and give you what I can.

Durwood

Raggi_Thor

07-05-2007, 07:54 PM

Is it like this one?
From
http://www.sailingtexas.com/samerican16a.html
http://www.sailingtexas.com/samerican16c.html
http://www.sailingtexas.com/samerican16d.html
http://www.sailingtexas.com/samerican16e.html
http://www.sailingtexas.com/samerican16f.html

Seems like they are quite popular and sell for 1000 to 2000 USD.

I don't know what sails costs in the US, but from Lee in Hong Kong I would guess 600USD.

I am an optimist, so I think the centerboard case can be fixed with a large fillet and a few layers of fiberglass.

durwoodghib

07-05-2007, 08:11 PM

THat is the boat. It is supposed to look like the blue one I am guessing...

Raggi_Thor

07-06-2007, 05:33 AM

I think it looks good, seems like a practical boat to sail with friends and family in protected waters.

You see from the old ads that you shouldn't pay more than 2000 USD for one in perfect condition and maye 1000 for one in working condition...

durwoodghib

07-06-2007, 05:57 AM

I was able to get a hold of the person selling the boat last night. They said that they do have the sails and they are in great shape. 1 Main, 1 Jib. The story behind it was they had bought it about 7 years ago, took it to a lake put it in sailed around for a while, took it out, and never got it back to the water after that. The boat is a 3 layer set up: The Hull, The seating area/cubby holes, and the top. As far as the cracked center mast area they told me that it was kind of a half done bondo job when they purchased the boat and as it has set the crack has gotten worse over time. My guess is it wasn't reinforced with any mesh, but could be fixed right. They are asking $300.00 as it is...but when I asked if the price was firm their response was it isn't a firm price but they are not going to cut it in half either..

Raggi_Thor

07-06-2007, 06:28 AM

Seems like a good deal if you like the boat!
Old fiberglass can be fixed with polyester and glass, or epoxy.
Epoxy wont stick to fresh polyester, but work OK with old.

PI Design

07-06-2007, 06:50 AM

$300 would be a steal! Cracks around the centrboard case shouldn't be too hard to repair. Does it come with a trailer for that price?

alan white

07-06-2007, 07:37 AM

Funny how with a lot of these FG boats, the sails are always in good shape. but the nature of boat ownership for a lot of people is generally to forget you have the boat after a while, so the hull sits outside and the sails sit in the closet.
I wouldn't buy a sailboat without good sails, but with nice sails, it's a doable project, because whereas I know how to fix up boat hulls, I still can't make sails myself.
At $300.00, this looks like a doable project. Nice looking boat.
You can get a lot of help here when it comes time to fix her up.

Alan

alan white

07-06-2007, 07:43 AM

timgoz

07-06-2007, 05:36 PM

Nice find Durwood!

Looks like a great little boat for a good price.

Hope all goes well. keep us up to date with your progress.

Tim

Raggi_Thor

07-06-2007, 07:59 PM

The sails, here, based on maybe a 100 sq ft main and a 50 sq ft jib would probably cost twice that much.
How is Lee's quality, Raggi?
Alan

I don't know yet, but I ahve ordered sails for an Argie 15 (Dudley Dix design) from Lee. I think it was 5 or 6 hndred USD.
Dudley Dix told me he had used Lee Sails on one of his first boats. They are good for cruising, but maybe not for racing, he said.

alan white

07-06-2007, 08:54 PM

I've got a jib to order, only about 30 sq ft. Nothing unusual, hanks and maybe 5 oz weight, mitered. The jib is like that of a Haven 12 1/2, which sailmakers around here want $600.00 for (!).
Thanks for the info, I'll give them a call once I find their website.

Alan

Raggi_Thor

07-07-2007, 06:47 AM

It's simply www.LeeSails.com :)

alan white

07-07-2007, 09:37 AM

Thanls. I already found them yesterday.

Alan

messabout

07-07-2007, 01:32 PM

Alan; $600 for a 30 ft^2 sail ? Those guys are ambitious aren't they? Check out Dabbler sails. They make high quality small boat sails in the $5.00 per foot range. It'll take some time to get the sails cause the guy is covered up with work. I think his name is Stuart Hopkins and he is easy to talk to and if you have some special requirement he will not blow it off. Big time sail makers like to sell big boat sails and may be guilty of discouraging the guy who wants small stuff. Can't blame them too much because the real money is in big boat sails.

alan white

07-07-2007, 03:26 PM

Thanks Messabout. I will try him. Hope to launch again by august, though. May have to wait til next year to add the jib. Sounds like a good price. Dunno why, here where most people are broke, the sailmakers are so expensive.

Alan

durwoodghib

07-10-2007, 09:44 PM

Well, I Called the owner of the boat again today and asked them if they would take $200.00 for it. They said they would,....So on Thursday I am going to pick up the boat and I hope to have some pictures of the actual boat on here by the end of the weekend.

Pierre R

07-12-2007, 11:43 PM

I owned an American 16 back in the late 70's.

The boat is quite tender and has no flotation. The rigging is very light and poorly attached. The hull layup was minimal.

It sailed okay in very light air but I would not take the boat further from shore than I could swim.

durwoodghib

07-13-2007, 04:48 PM

Raggi_Thor

07-13-2007, 06:33 PM

Tender means it's not very stable. That is not a problem in light winds.
Maybe you can add some flotation under the deck, just in case.

durwoodghib

07-13-2007, 07:44 PM

Maybe you can add some flotation under the deck, just in case
How would you go about doing this and one other question since I am a pretty much a newbie with all of this.. When it is said, "the hull layup was minimal" what does this mean exactly?

USCGRET/E8

07-13-2007, 07:48 PM

Swim noodles are a good source for cheap flotation! They can be cut to size, glued, you name it.

durwoodghib

07-13-2007, 09:46 PM

noodles could work....will keep that in mind. as far as is being "tender" couldn't one switch out some of the rigging to make it more sturdy?

alan white

07-13-2007, 11:38 PM

To get more stability by changing the rig, you would need to shorten the mast, lengthen the boom, add a bowsprit, and buy a new sail and maybe a new jib too. This is a lot of work to do.
Stability can be enhanced in other ways. This is a trailer sailer, so altering the underbody to for example, add outside ballast, is possible, but expensive in terms of time and money---- the centerboard would have to pass through that ballast.
Inside ballast can be arranged by fixing lead pigs down low around the centerboard case, but in order for such weight to work for you, it must be substantial. The boat will be slower, and may not sit in its most efficient waterplane (though the efficiency of the waterplane may also improve by widening and lengthening, depending on the boat on question).
Sometimes just adding a vang (kicking strap) will improve the stability by flattening the sail in heavier breezes, turning heeling forces into lift and more speed. Boats without travellers or vangs can't control sail draft, and the same can be said for jibsheet leads being non-adjustable. The sails are too full, which is fine for light winds, but this does cause noticably more heeling when the wind increases.
These are simpler changes, and make the most sense. The hull looks fine insofar as I can see. It ought to be possible to work with the sheet leads and mainsail shaping and get a pretty good sailer. I would also have reefing points installed.
The boat is tender because it is light and unballasted. Human ballast is therefore needed to keep her upright. And at least if some attention is paid to flattening the sails and setting up a reefing system, it should be an okay boat, and not heel excessively.

durwoodghib

07-14-2007, 08:24 AM

Thank you all for all of the info is has been very helpful

Alan. Since I am a newbie at this let me try and say back to you what you just said to me, just to make sure I understand you.

If I had unlimited money I could get a shorter mast, longer boom and add an addition to lengthen the front of the rigging out (bowsprit), New sails.

But on a cheaper note
I could put more weight under the boat on the outside around the center board which would make it set lower in the water and add drag ultimately slowing the boat down.

I could add a Vang which pulls the sail tighter keeping it from inflating as much in heavy wind, which would bring the boat out of the water more, and not tilt as much.

Do I have the above understood? Also for people information the pictures that are listed about from Raggi_thor was the same type of boat but not the actual boat. The boat I ended up getting is in very rough shape compared to the above pictures, and needs a lot of work. This is going to be a project for me to complete and I am planning on taking the boat apart to ensure everything is sound and will do what ever work I need to in order to make it a more stable and “safer” boat. On the flip side I would like to try and keep from slowing the boat down. On a different note what resources would you suggest (book, videos, ect.) for someone to learn more about sailing and the ends and outs of working on a boat?

durwoodghib

07-14-2007, 08:32 AM

This is the actual Boat

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f56/durwoodghib/July12200734.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f56/durwoodghib/July12200731.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f56/durwoodghib/July12200717.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f56/durwoodghib/July12200711.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f56/durwoodghib/July1220079.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f56/durwoodghib/July12200714.jpg

alan white

07-14-2007, 10:09 AM

When I said "lift", as something you gain when the sails are flattened, I meant driving force relative to drag. On boats the sails and the keel can lift sideways, so lift has nothing to do with the hull rising unless the speed increases and the hull rises as a result (but lift still means sail efficiency).
Read Practical Sailer magazine if you can find it, and for books, I'm drawing a blank--- a beginner's book I bought for my ex-wife was really good, can't find it... hopefully someone here can make a good suggestion. My library is more specialized and includes everything but a beginner's book.
My guess is you could join a sailing forum too.

alan

alan white

07-14-2007, 10:23 AM

Bleach or diluted muriatic acid will get rid of a lot of the mold and reveal the true condition better. Use a brush and gloves/goggles if you want to be safe.
My recommendation is that you do a minimum in order to get the boat in the water functioning, and then you'll have a better picture of what problems you will want to address. You will see how everything interrelates, stress the hardware to reveal weaknesses, and most of all, enjoy the boat for the season. By fall, you'll already be thinking about next year and all the things you want to do to make the boat better. Your centerboard case repair and any other repairs will be tested before you have painted. Over the winter, you will learn much without the pressure to get ahead of yourself. You will change your mind as you go, and by spring, you'll have a solid plan together.

Pierre R

07-14-2007, 12:57 PM

durwoodghib there is really nothing you can do to the American 16 to really beef it up. The whole boat is lightly designed and intended for light breezes. There is no ballast and only a light centerboard.

Clean it up and go enjoy it on nice days. Tender means the boat will respond to a strong gust by going over, mast in the water. A moderate gust will give extreme weather helm and the boat will round up into the wind even though that is not what you intended. As soon as it rounds up into the wind the jib will backwind and the boat will likely be knocked flat the other direction.

Enjoy the boat in light winds and sell it to the next guy when you want more boat.

durwoodghib

07-14-2007, 02:37 PM

What would you all suggest for cleaning the sails? They are is good codition but need a bath.

USCGRET/E8

07-14-2007, 03:09 PM

http://ezinearticles.com/?Cleaning-Sails&id=27847
http://www.spinnakershop.com/Sail%20Care.htm
http://www.canvasandsails.com/cleaning.htm

USCGRET/E8

07-14-2007, 03:17 PM

[QUOTE=durwoodghib;151635]This is the actual Boat

It needs a bit of work and some new plywood pieces made, but don't get too caught up in it. Just get it sailable and go have some fun...worry about washing the sails and all that as you get time...All non ballasted sailboats are tender...don't worry about it, it will make you a better sailor. Read up and advertise for an interested, free instructor. Fellow sailors are glad to help out and teach you throughout the country. Advertise any needs on craigslist and see what pops up!

durwoodghib

07-14-2007, 03:49 PM

alan white

07-14-2007, 05:02 PM

I recommend going outside and setting up a 2 x 6 or wider plank about ten feet long across two saw horses and progressively feeding the sail over the flat surface of the plank, scrubbing against the plank with a car-washing brush and Tide and hot water, rinsing as you go, flipping, and repeating on the other side. This is a comfortable way to attack such a large area. Stains might require some carpet cleaer in a spray can--- rinse well.

Alan

alan white

07-14-2007, 05:06 PM

Believe it or not I taught the sailing merit badge at the local Boy Scout camp but that was back in 95 and I haven't done anything at all since Hence why I consider myself a newbie. However, just for comparability the boat(s) we used at the camp were little single sail 8ft. sun fishes, at least I think that was what they were called. Other than the size differences am I looking at about the same as far as the reaction with gust or heavier winds?

Naw. Your boat isn't that unstable. All daysailers without ballast are tender relative to heavier boats, but you must have almost six feet of beam--- the Sunfish might be under four feet wide. Big difference. I notice the mast is pretty tall----- you will heel when it gusts, but that's what sailing is all about.

Raggi_Thor

07-14-2007, 06:03 PM

How would you go about doing this and one other question since I am a pretty much a newbie with all of this.. When it is said, "the hull layup was minimal" what does this mean exactly?

I think you should try the boat as it is before you do anything.
Flotation can be anything that is very light, like styrofoam or empty windscreen wiper solution bottles (don't know what you call it).

"hull layup" means the number and thickness of glass mat and rowing in the hull. I guess he means the boat is not very strong. If it's used for sheltered waters, you foot, a stone on a beach, and the rollers o the trailer will be the worst enemy.

durwoodghib

07-14-2007, 09:30 PM

I really do appreciate all of the advice and I don't think I will get it into the water this year only because I do need to replace all of the rope, some of the clamps are worn, some of the rigging cables are not the greatest, and the trailer needs a lot of attention before it can be used, (new tires, lights, rollers, and hand winch to name a few things)...