Is this blasphemy?

[Winingar]

This is what I would like to do with my 25' barrelback. Please excuse the crude drawing obviously not to scale. I'm not even sure I would be able to fit 3 steps, but just so you get the idea.

I would like to have full access to the stern from the water.

Is this too modern for a classic?

[longliner45]

looks good to me ,,,and original ,,,,,the steps dont have to be straight ,,they could be small at the top and flare out larger at the bottom,and they dont have to be too wide ,,neat idea,longliner

[PAR]

One of the more difficult things a beginner has to overcome, is the desire to alter major elements of a design. This is very true in small craft, where the balance can easily be changed just by moving a bait well, for example.

Changes to the aesthetic features of a boat, pretty much are a given, for most amateur builders. Substantial alterations, that will cause the CG or CB to move, will affect how the boat performs and this will likely not be in a positive fashion.

You'll be removing a fair amount of weight, from the stern of that runabout, which will likely alter the trim of the vessel. Personally, it ruins the look of the classic design you elected to build. That's my opinion, but everyone has to live with their own decisions. I would prefer a classically styled boarding ladder, typical of the period, on a period specific styled craft. Again, that's me, because putting a BayLiner stern on a classic Hacker is offensive to me.

The 18' powerboat is the most popular size in this country. There are literally thousands of designs, old, new, classic, modern, innovative and traditional. If you want a modern design with a classic feel, then one of the newer, retro styled designs, may be better suited to your needs. Certanly more so then chain sawing the boat's namesake off the back of the runabout.

[Winingar]

WOW!!!:D I'll put Par down for the blasphemy side!!!

I can fully understand your dislike for the idea. It's kind of like seeing a 1967 Chevy pickup that has been refurbished with a 90's model truck bed sitting on 20" rims.

I have grown up on the water and have had the great experience of seeing alot of different wooden boats from 18' Chris Craft's to once a 70' Elco in San Franciso Bay. I appreciate the beauty of the wooden boat and I love the craftsmanship that goes with their tradition.

I personally love the Riviera design, because of the sporty looks and the great performance. I'm hoping to build my boat somewhere in between the classic Chris Craft and the Riviera with great performance and also great looks, but most of all I want comfort and practicallity. I want to be able to use it every weekend and not have worries that most classic boat owners might have. I want to be able to use it to jump in and out of at the beach, then later in the evening be able to dock it at a fine dining restaurant.

I'm sure you have forgotten more than I will ever know about boat design so I appreciate your thoughts. Hopefully my project will be appealing to all when it's complete.

[alan white]

Not what I would do...

That said, aesthetics are personal, but you asked.
Howwwwever, you want steps into the boat, and what might be far easier and work as well and maybe look better would be to make a staggered set of insets, round-topped, about 4" wide, 6" deep, with some kind of tread set into them. You could cast them on the bench (they'd look like rather large steel-toed boot inserts), then cut and epoxy in. Painted the same color as the transom (or if wood, maybe MAKE then out of wood to match.
Well, I've not seen your boat---- maybe the steps in your drawing would look fabulous.


A.

[waikikin]

Winningar, how about not hacking the boat up & rather adding a nicely styled boarding platform in harmony with the vessels aesthetics & a similarly styled ladder to deck with a folder to sub WL to board from? Maybe all plusses of your intended modifications with simply adding these options to your vessel with less down time on using & enjoying the boat too. All the best from Jeff:)

[Winingar]

I think my picture really isn't an accurate illustration of what I'm thinking in my mind. It shows steps as in block steps, but what I am thinking is more like a ladder, or if you will kind of like an attic ladder, but flush to the transom at an angle.

The main thing though is the question of the design, with access from the stern of the boat.

Poorly portrayed in my art work.

[Winingar]

http://www.hackerboat.com/assets/images/db_images/db_116-1668_IMG1.jpg
Here we go. After awhile of searching, this is what I'm looking for.

The only thing I would do is make the platform a little bigger.

[longliner45]

the handrails look good to a tired swimmer also ,,longliner

[waikikin]

Looks nice, good picture, just needs more speed & spray:cool: , & not blasphemy, 'cos wooden boats arn't a religion because that would make their builders & repairers saints- which we aint;)

[Poida]

Aww I want wanna those.

[lazeyjack]

Par I disagree, although(I like all your stuff) these steps suit I have seen 100 mill yacht with no access to water, look at my last , we lived on those steps

[Pericles]

Winingar

Another option would be to construct from new, as shown here. http://bootbouw.blog2blog.nl/11666/Motor+defintief+geplaatst++Final+fitting+the+motor.html

Click on Home Page to see the complete site. This Vanderwood design has been presented elsewhere in these forums.

The stern of the Coral Yacht Legacy 30 also features the steps you like. http://www.strand-craft.com/

Regards,


Pericles

[Poida]

Par, is removing weight from the back of the boat a real problem, in as much as adding weight seems easier to do to compensate.

With my boat I have the fuel tank at the back plus that is where people like to sit, so my boat lifts up at the bow. The previous owner put trim tabs on to try and compensate but I removed them because of the drag and now have to move weight around the boat to even her up.

So to me adding weight if you need to is not as bad as having weight you need to get rid of.

Poida

[PAR]

On a boat that planes, CG is quite important. In small craft (anything under 30') even small differences in weight location will affect trim. This can often be countered by other adjustments, such as moving battery banks, tanks, etc., but many times, if alterations are significant enough, trim can be so severely disturbed, getting her to "balance out" can be problematic. Trim tabs can be a solution (one which I greatly dislike), but these are a Band-Aid, not a cure.

Removing weight is easier to fix then adding weight of course, but both situations can alter trim which isn't good in most small craft. So Poida, you're correct that installing is preferred to having to cut. Most small boats need to be trimmed up for the different loads they carry. A single person, out for a day of fishing, will need a different trim, then a crowd of folks out for a picnic.

The point is, understanding the consequences of alterations to an existing design is important and that most amateur builders don't realize the significance of their alterations. This usually results in the designer being blamed for a "crappy" performing boat, when in fact it's the builder who unknowingly screwed up the balance of the vessel.

My only real objection is the removal of the barrel on the stern of a "barrel back" to install steps, when a more suitable to the style or era method of boarding can be incorporated, without altering the design so significantly, both in styling and CG location.

[tuantom]

I like the look of the steps. Form and function have to find a happy medium. It seems to me though, in the end, the steps would actually add more material to the back than they'd remove. However, that said, I think weight difference would be negligable.

[Willallison]

I don't think that PAR is referring so much to the steps as the combination of steps and large boarding platform (in terms of weight I mean). However, in combination with moving something else fwd - like the battery for instance - the positoon of th CG could probably be maintained.

Personally I rather like the steps - not your drawing (sorry), but the pic...

[charmc]

The photo concept totally changes my answer from your earlier sketch (I understand that much, I can't sketch on a computer worth a damn, either :mad: ).

The barrelback stern is a natural base for a wood ladder (think steps: naval parlance calls all stairs on a boat/ship ladders) following the contours of the stern, similar to the photo. Hand rails or cutouts for hand grips will be welcomed by tired swimmers or skiers.

Any chance of some photos of your boat as it is now?

[glwanabe]

PAR,
has always been very helpful to me in the past, and I respect his amount of knowledge.

I would not cut up a real classic boat boat, but with proper research I've seen designs like those steps that look pretty darn good.


http://www.comittigroup.com/italiano/Venezia34.html

I've really come to like the integration of classic styles with modern touches.

check out the T-29 and T-38

http://www.hinckleyyachts.com/

[PAR]

Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike the idea of a scoop stern with steps, just not on a bastardized barrelback. A new design, incorporating the "classic" looks of the 20's era runabouts with some modern upgrades, maybe including a scoop and steps sounds like a good idea for a custom foray into yacht design. I'd even entertain such a project.

[glwanabe]

Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike the idea of a scoop stern with steps, just not on a bastardized barrelback. A new design, incorporating the "classic" looks of the 20's era runabouts with some modern upgrades, maybe including a scoop and steps sounds like a good idea for a custom foray into yacht design. I'd even entertain such a project.

Hi Paul,

I hope you don't think I was calling you out for your opinion, that is not the case. You have very good advice and a background far beyond most people who ask questions on these open forums.

I agree with your viewpoint. I think such design ideas look better when applied as part of the original design, yet one that stills call to mind a familier image. Yes I think it can work, just maybe not with that hull. Evan if the balance isssues are proved to worked out.

I forgot to post any pics of ssome of the newer Chris Crafts. They have some beautiful work. they give Riva and Comitti a serious run for the money.

[PAR]

Thanks Jeff, no worries my friend, I'm not a stick in the mud and have several well out of the box designs of mine own. Some of these include classic runabouts with modern touches and propulsion.