UK forges ahead with alcohol limit for boaters

[Guillermo]

By IBI Magazine/ybw.com

UK Transport Minister Stephen Ladyman has announced that he will be pressing ahead with the introduction of legislation to limit boat owners from navigating while under the influence of alcohol.

A limit of 80 milligrams per 100 millilitres of blood will apply to those involved in the navigation of a vessel greater than 7m (23ft) in length and/or capable of a maximum speed of more than 7kt.

"Everyone has the right to enjoy themselves on the water, but in a way that does not put others at risk," said Ladyman. "We have weighed very carefully the results of the consultation exercise and the views of all concerned - leisure sailors, enforcement authorities and accident investigators."

The regulations will not apply to jetskis because of a Court of Appeal ruling stating that the PWC's are not classed as ships. However plans exist to extend the legislation to them in due course.

The UK's Royal Yachting Association (RYA) said it was puzzled why the step was being taken now, three years after the Department for Transport completed its consultation on drink boating legislation.

Rod Carr, RYA CEO, said: "The RYA's view remains unchanged from that of 2004. We believe that new legislation is unnecessary because there is still no evidence of the existence of an extensive problem relating to alcohol and boating."

"However, given that the Government is intent on pressing ahead with the introduction of an alcohol limit for leisure mariners then we will work hard with the Department of Transport to ensure that sensible measures are put in place."

(13 June 2007)

[hansp77]

Wow,
I would never have thought that Law was not already in place.
We've had it here for a while.
Does '80 milligrams per 100 millilitres of blood' boil down to 0.08%? (forgive my math)
our limits are 0.05% for recreational and 0.02% for commercial.

[marshmat]

Over here in Ontario the booze rules on the water are pretty much the same as they are in the car. No open booze in the same compartment as the driver/helmsman while underway, and a limit of 0.08 for the person in control of the vehicle. (My understanding is that it's OK for passengers on the boat to drink while underway so long as they keep it in the cabin and in a separate compartment/area from the helm station, but don't quote me on that.) Get caught drinking and driving on the water, and your car licence is suspended just as it would be if you were caught drunk driving on the road.
So far the rules seem to be welcomed by most boaters, the majority of whom hate to think of their crew or yacht being the unwitting victims of a rampant drunkard. There aren't many arrests, but enough that drunken-skipper syndrome seems to be noticeably on the decrease.

[longliner45]

in the USA it is ,,,alreaddy in affect,,,,at the great lakes ,,you abide buy the same rules as autos ,,no open containers ,,ect ,,ect,,,,,,now also being looked at for salt water ,,,,,longliner

[lazeyjack]

crock of shit!! why?
once again we are TOLD, In 47 years I nevee sailed drunk!! so the world is full of people who should maybe not be boating> but hell!! maybe its ok fer people in fast boats but for us sailors? get real screw the bloody lawmakers

[PI Design]

nanny state

[hansp77]

As far as I know, in the Bay down here, they tend to focus on the stinkpots and are most likely to leave us sailors alone (especially if if everything on board looks safe and well behaved- lifejackets, etc..).

My absolute pet hate are jetskiers. Maybe I hate them the most because I have never done it, and never had the chance to appreciate it. Sometimes it looks sort of fun. Most of the time I just look at them and think.... and where the hell do you think your going, in a such a hurry, D!(K HEAD
It's mainly the noise that gets me. One guy, out there on the bay on big jetski will be heard for kilometers up and down the beach, by thousands of people. It just seems so obnoxious to me, and I hate that noise. Your lying in the sand, trying to bliss out in the sun, and all you can hear is rrrhough... rhhouggh... rrrghouugh... up and down the beach all bloody day...

I guess this is a rant.
I guess what I am saying is that I would be happy for the cops to hassel the hell out of those things (sorry to anyone who rides on:rolleyes: )

[PI Design]

I agree Hans, but they're the one thing that is specifically exempt! Not only are they a nuisance, but they are also a danger, mostly because of the people who ride(?) them. I don't see how (or why) you would police sailing boats. Are you allowed to have a drink in the evening, when you're tied up (the boat, not you personally :rolleyes:)

[lazeyjack]

I agree Hans, but they're the one thing that is specifically exempt! Not only are they a nuisance, but they are also a danger, mostly because of the people who ride(?) them. I don't see how (or why) you would police sailing boats. Are you allowed to have a drink in the evening, when you're tied up (the boat, not you personally :rolleyes:)

same as trail bikes? , you are having a snooze in the scrub and then these bloody things come along, then you are anchored in some quiet bay and bloody jetskis, go round your pick, , hell
i'm tied of being super polite here . just so I can SAVE PTS, LET us tell it as it is

[hansp77]

Are you allowed to have a drink in the evening, when you're tied up (the boat, not you personally :rolleyes:)

I can only assume so. I consider it like the keys in the car thing. It is alright to sit in your car here drunk as a skunk, you can even sleep there. But the moment you put your keys in the ignition (or god forbid you actually start the engine) snap... you are driving, and chargeable.

So, when we treat my boat as our little beach house on the water, swinging off its mooring, we may very well choose to get 'drunk' (well at the very least over 0.05 which aint hard to do). So long as I am still tied to my mooring, It's like I never put the keys in the ignition:rolleyes:
at least that is my rationalisation.

After last NYE on the mooring with my girlfriend and a couple of freinds, In the morning, I don't think I was even safe enough to paddle the tender in to the local cafe:P I felt fine on the water, well sort of, untill the moment I stepped foot on land, and the dizziness and suffering didn't stop untill I got back on board and layed my head down... bliss.
Its strange like that.

[PI Design]

So, if your friends are allowed to drink whilst you sail, what is to stop you claiming that your 8 year old son wasn't, in fact, skippering the boat(assuming he hadn't been drinking too!) whilst you also have a drink? I just think it is unenforcable and unneccasary.
Incidentally, Stephen Ladyman's (the minister responsible) constituency covers Ramsgate, a thriving harbour and marina town. This law will not be popular with his constituents, but then he is likely to lose his seat at the next election anyway (it's a marginal seat, with a majority less than the forecast swing to the Tories). So this is the last thing he'll probably do as a politician. What is the point of consulting with the national governing body (RYA) and your local constituents and then ignoring them both?

[StianM]

If you work on a boat your not allowed to show up on your watch under influence of alcohol.

Is it ok for you to drive a car under influence of alcohol as long as truck drivers don't do it?:confused:

This law has ben in place in Norway for a few years, here I don't know and I'm suprised it's not in the UK

[charmc]

By IBI Magazine/ybw.com

A limit of 80 milligrams per 100 millilitres of blood will apply to those involved in the navigation of a vessel greater than 7m (23ft) in length and/or capable of a maximum speed of more than 7kt.

"Everyone has the right to enjoy themselves on the water, but in a way that does not put others at risk,"

The regulations will not apply to jetskis because of a Court of Appeal ruling stating that the PWC's are not classed as ships. However plans exist to extend the legislation to them in due course. (13 June 2007)

Yes, it's a .08% limit (tried to do it in my head, had to drag out the calculator, even though I'm cold sober :) ).

It would appear to apply to operators of boats while "navigating", so I think having a drink while anchored or alongside a pier is no problem, and it seems to be aimed at powerboats, based on the speed thing.

Actually, it seems like a good proposal, except for the minimum length. That seems to be the result of a stupid interpretation of the court decision that small recreational boats are "not ships" (Duuuuuhhhh :rolleyes: ).

I hate most gov't regulations of behavior, but I don't think of DUI laws as "nanny state" because DUI puts others at risk. Innocent people and children get killed in too many DUI accidents.

Florida has strict DUI laws for driving and boating; small powerboats and PWC's (jetskis) included. If you have any child under 18 with you, penalties are doubled.

[Guillermo]

Well, it's gratifying to find out that Spain, being so over-regulatory in other aspects, has still some advantages over some of your well developed countries: We do not have alcohol limits for recreational boating :)

[lazeyjack]

look at it this way, if you alllow the police to come on board, thats tresspass? they would need a search warrant, but if the laws are changed to allow cops to board boats, then thats the end? Vive La Espagne!!

[Frosty]

Whats this for --has there been a lot of drunken accidents?

Ive never seen a drunken accident involving a boat. I cant rememeber even seeing some one fall in the water.

One day all these laws will need to be removed. That will be a bigger problem than installing them.

[Guillermo]

Ive never seen a drunken accident involving a boat.
What about this one....? :D

[lazeyjack]

What about this one....? :D

well the light WAS green?:P

[Frosty]

How do you know the driver of that accident was drunk. And-- or-- too drunk to drive. You could be sober and have an accident.

I dont like laws they are too definitive. I love a drink but would never ever with my bigger boat. Skiing and messing well--maybe.

But then you cant ski--Ive tried it.

To be honest in Uk its just too cold to think about drinking cold beer. usually tidal so you dont have the time, and then you already have driving vehicle laws to think about to get home afterwards.

I would not have thought that it was such a problem so big as to need more laws.

[StianM]

What about this one....? :D

My fathers buisnes partner did the same thing with there Taxiboat.

It was nigh and he trusted the radar witch actualy can pick up smal objects, but he had adjusted it to a too large range:p

He hit one off those steel bar showing shalow places(about 50mm) diameter in 37knot.
Got a 500mm hole in the bow and it bended so the boat flew over it having some gelcoat damage on the bottom and tok out one drive.

The reason it did not go that bad was that the boats hull was twice as thick as the requirements + the steel bar probartly 50years old and contained 50% rust.

So it's enough to be stupid, drunk is not neaded.:D

[safewalrus]

This law is being made by the British government for the main reason a lot of you guys left the place - because they can!! The Labur party has made more new laws in the last few years (mainly because once they get thrown out they know there is little chance of them getting back in as a Government) than have been made in this country over the last 50 years - most of them have been 'knee jerk' reaction to something going wrong! A lot of the time there is already a law in place to prevent whatever it is happening it just is to much like hard work to look for it or apply it - also of course if they did that they wouldn't get their names up 'in lights'

[longliner45]

gilly,,,what is the name of that boat ?,,cant make it out ,longliner

[charmc]

gilly,,,what is the name of that boat ?,,cant make it out ,longliner

"Temporary Insanity" ... Appropriate. :D :D

[longliner45]

here in USA alota drunk boaters ,,,,the last one I saw that keeps in my mind ,,,,was a scarab with drunk caption,,(if you can call him one ) ,ramming a sailboat at midnight on the intercoastal water way in pensicola fla ,,,,,killed 5 while they were sleeping,,,apparently ,at least here ,we need some laws.I dont see nothing wrong ,with haveing a few onboard ,,but you gotta know when to say when,,also you euros know ..pretty much ,americans like thier drink,,,,it was common in italy and germany to go to a bar and everyone having fun ,,euros drink to solcialise americans drink to get drunk ,,longliner,,,,,,no offence ment to the smart ones

[Frosty]

here in USA alota drunk boaters ,,,,the last one I saw that keeps in my mind ,,,,was a scarab with drunk caption,,(if you can call him one ) ,ramming a sailboat at midnight on the intercoastal water way in pensicola fla ,,,,,killed 5 while they were sleeping,,,apparently ,at least here ,we need some laws.I dont see nothing wrong ,with haveing a few onboard ,,but you gotta know when to say when,,also you euros know ..pretty much ,americans like thier drink,,,,it was common in italy and germany to go to a bar and everyone having fun ,,euros drink to solcialise americans drink to get drunk ,,longliner,,,,,,no offence ment to the smart ones

Thats a shocking storey--but-- would a law against drinking have stoped that.

That particular accident was cause by utter stupidity for someone to have drunk so much and to think they could still drive at speed at night.

We can never make laws against people like that.

Its against the law to rob a bank but people still seem to think they can get away with it.

I think too many laws and restrictions will encourage even worse social disfunctional behaviour, resulting in frustration and rebelious actions
that hurt out fellow neighbours even more.

[longliner45]

if you (enforced the law ,and held them accountable),,,,,,,maybe...longliner

[Poida]

I went out last night had a few. Got someone to pick me up and I picked up my car thismorning.

Would I have driven if there was no drink driving laws? Probably because making a rational decision when you have been drinking is compromised regardless of how clever you think you are.

So the law has made that decision for me.

So I had a great night chilli mussles heaps of red wine followed by chocolate mud cake ice cream and cream.

The evening wasn't spoilt by getting booked for over the limit or worse killing someone.

Drink driving boats, all the law is doing is removing your assessment on your ability to control a boat if you have been drinking.

My two cents worth.

Poida

[Frosty]

if you (enforced the law ,and held them accountable),,,,,,,maybe...longliner

It is against the law to kill people, "Thou shalt not kill" but people murder every day. There are very strong penalties for murder.

People who break the law arnt afraid of the law. They do not fear the consiquences because they will not get caught,!! ( back to the stupidity bit again).

It would appear to me therfore that the consiquences are'nt severe enough.

Some people CAN drink and drive in moderation, some absalutely can NOT.

If you are responsable for a drunken accident whilst driving a car you should never be able to drive again, not just 6 months ban.

I think we are focused too much on punishment-- Its not punishment I am concerened about, remove that person and his attitude to others off the road,--forever.

I think people have already worked out a plan if they get caught,They can go to work with my next door neighbour--no problem.

[alan white]

More laws. I'd think there would be an exemption for sailboats under sail for private use. There are boats that will do 60 mph--------- a few years ago a jetski rammed a party boat in the fog, at night, on Lake Winnipisaki, NH.
Killed a couple of people. Drunk jetskiers.
The word "boat" is used to encompass anything that floats on water, which I guess is like saying cars have wheels and roller skates have wheels, and all wheeled vehicles share the same responsibilities.
An innertube might be exempt, but what about a department store 4 ft inflatable "boat"? Yes, you get hit with one of those babies, and it's a horror show! You know, those things have beer pockets molded right in!
What about swimming pools? Suppose you are sitting in one of those plastic blow up beer-holder boats, and all red-faced and belligerant, threatening to ram a small kid on a foam board? A cop is passing by (luckily) and his rigorous training has taught him to judge such situations and react.
Not silly enough? There are dads who give kids rides on their backs at the beach. Technically, that makes them a boat. The question is who to ticket. The kid's too young, and the dad is just a boat. You can't rightfully ticket a VEHICLE. Besides, then you'd have to ticket all boats that ran on alcohol, whether fiberglass, wood, aluminum, or carbon-based.

[longliner45]

poida ,,I agree,,,if it wernt for the laws ,,,,I would alreaddy killed many dumbasses,,but because we are civil,and make and live by rules and laws as deturants ,,,,this keeps us in keel,however your not to stop all the offenders ,,but you can get them off the streets,with incarceration,,,if you follow the penaltys for the offence ,,no plea bargains ,,no deals ,and if you dont mind my saying ,,any man who knows his faults and weakness,is a real man,, and acts accordingly,to adjust,,is a real man ,,,,,longliner

[longliner45]

alan I kinda see your point ,,,but my sailboat wieghs in at 6 tons(US),,,,like when forrest gump hits the dock and crushed it , that boat was only going 5 knots,everyone should be (responcible for thier actions ),, also alan explosions and ramings are amplified by water,example a stick of dynomite has more concushion power in water than in air ,longliner

[safewalrus]

Lets make a law where everybody has to stay at home and go nowhere - anybody caught outside is shot dead instantly -really be a police state then eh! and everybody would be happy? NO!

UK is already a police state - any state where only the police have guns is a police state! Bring it on!

[hmattos]

From here in England it seems a very reasonable course as the level is the same as the current level for driving a car - and yes we have just finished the trial of a man who killed his friend hwen he hit the others boat on the way back from a drink. Both drunk, in the dark with no lights.

Drinking should always be kept away from any machinery - cars and boats included.

[longliner45]

the problem ,,walrus is some men cant hold thier liquor,,,,,,,and dont relize it till its too late,,,,but the skipper is resonsible for boat and crew well being ,,,,no questions asked.I agree with pioda ,,laws are a deturrent ,,,,penelatys are a cure ,,if carried out ,longliner

[SamSam]

Well, it's gratifying to find out that Spain, being so over-regulatory in other aspects, has still some advantages over some of your well developed countries: We do not have alcohol limits for recreational boating :)
I believe you also have the best looking women! Spain is also tolerant about Mary Wanna too, or is that a rumor? Sam

[Guillermo]

Sir, thanks in name of all the beatiful spanish women....:cool:
About tolerancy, I tend to believe Spain is nowadays tolerant not only with Mari Juana, but also Mari Pepa and all and every tipe of Maris....We have become the tolerance country per excellence. Ask our prime minister...:D