my restoration project: 1969 larson 18.5' + merc 140 stern drive

[e39dream]

Hey boat design forums! Glad to join up where there's a little more active group!

I am restoring a 1969 larson all american 18.5' runabout. I got it minus working engine and with no interior.

I bought a boat with a hole in the hull for motor and controls and have been stripping it, it's a 16' searay srv of unknown year.

you can see some pics and some of my progress here, I plan to continue updating my progress on boatdsign.net as the boatus forum has practically zero traffic. some constructive criticism is wanted.
http://www.boatforumz.com/project-1969-larson-18-runabout-merc-140-stern-ftopict14868.html

so as of my last writing I had most of the bolts out of the motor mounts on the merc 140. Today I removed the rest and any wires and lines that needed to be undone to pull the motor. I also cut the back over the engine open with a sawzall to make it alot easier. the hull is trash anyway. A friend is bringing an engine hoist and lawn mower trailer in the morning to help move it to the garage.

I also removed all the guages and remaining electronics from the parts boat today. Most of the guages are getting replaced, I'm not looking at hazy guages. Got alot done. Once I get the engine and the gimble stuff out I can make a template and begin prepping the Larson for it's new drivetrain. I expect to ahve to fabricate something for the front mount- luckily my best friend owns a machine and fab shop.

here's pic of the parts boat where I cut it to aid in the easy removal of motor:
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c207/marxalbums/motoranddog2009.jpg


My mom asked me why don't I just go buy a good boat instead of working on this old rig. I told her anybody can buy a boat. This one will be rebuilt to my specs and I have some cool ideas for it. The work is half the fun for me.

I'm pretty sure I'm calling the project boat "summer of 69".

I look forward to updating my progress here and hope to learn a great deal about boats and boat design as I do so.

[e39dream]

hey thanks for the warm welcome.

[hansp77]

don't worry mate,
sometimes a post or two just slips through the cracks.

Welcome aboard e39dream,
stick around and I think you will find this forum most rewarding (I certainly have)
I just checked out your other thread, and it looks like a nice little runabout.
Good luck with your project, and I am sure you will get all the help and criticism you need here.
P.S. if you go into your profile options you can start building up your own gallery pictures.

Hans.

[e39dream]

what a beautiful day to play with boats in chicagoland!

Thanks Hans- I certainly have my work cut out for me :)

so the good news:

A friend came over with a hoist and trailer and we managed to tug the 140hp mercruiser into my garage. (thanks scott!) The hoist worked but it got a little scary a couple times since the parts boat was in the grass. We hoisted the motor from the boat, then winched the hoist onto the trailer. Since the engine mounts are flat I was able to safely set it right on the garage floor, kind of nice.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c207/marxalbums/goodday004.jpg
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c207/marxalbums/goodday007.jpg


Removed the rest of the steering components and made a template of the cutout to transfer over to the project boat.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c207/marxalbums/goodday013.jpg
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c207/marxalbums/goodday015.jpg

so now the bad news:

I removed a couple boards in the back of the project boat to take some measurements and found some rotten wood that has been covered up. I also encountered some foam that looks like great stuff that someone sprayed in there, was holding alot of moisture so I cut out the foam out.

The not so bad news is that all the fiber glass is rock hard and not rotten, so I discovered another day or so worth of work and some added cost but I will not rest knowing my deck is sitting on rotten wood, and I'd be a fool to toss a 140 horse motor that has to weigh 300+ pounds on rotten supports. So I have to pull the rotten boards and replace them. :(

The person who made the new treated deck planks did a nice job fitting them and they can be reused, they just covered up the real problem- lazy way out. that doesnt fly with the summer of 69.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c207/marxalbums/goodday019.jpg

other discoveries: the back of the project boat will need some modification to hold/support the stern drive. I plan to cut the top in a similar manner as I did to remove the engine from the parts boat, add a 3/4" thick square of plywood to the back wall, fiberglass that in place and then use the template I made to cut the required hole. From there I will fabricate a wooden vinyl covered hatch to cover the engine and hole in the top, once I start doing the interior.

questions:

where can I buy some fiberglass mat and resin that takes a money order and is reputable? I get paid tomorrow:)

Once the motor was out I was looking down in the area it came from for dropped tools and stuff and I found a decal in the sludge:
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c207/marxalbums/goodday011.jpg

counter rotation?

the alpha one I was given with the motor just says alpha one. The lower unit was not on the motor when I heard it run for a second- I hope I didn't just make a bad mistake buying mismatch parts. Can anyone tell me how to make sure this engine and lower are meant for each other?

[e39dream]

I searched the forum and educated myself the best I could on counter rotation. I still don't quite understand it but I do know my engine and lower will work :)

[e39dream]

didn't do anything with the boat today, was too busy doing other less fun things.

I did ask around work and found a boat shop where I can get my supplies locally, went there and they are closed mondays- going back tomorrow.

[e39dream]

sort of off topic but can anyone offer advice on removing a snapped off spark plug?

I'm working on the truck I intend to pull my boat with and snapped off a spark plug trying to put a tune up on it today. Nothing comes easy for me.

[Pierre R]

Cheapest place to buy glass is Noah's out of Toronto, On. The best place to buy resin is www.raka.com These epoxies are a dream to work with and less expensive than any resins on the shelf. Delivery time is a few days. I would suggest the 127 resin and the 350 hardener. I have had the best luck using these resins as there is no blush and subsequent layers are easy. One drawback is that these resins are very slow.

[e39dream]

Cheapest place to buy glass is Noah's out of Toronto, On. The best place to buy resin is www.raka.com These epoxies are a dream to work with and less expensive than any resins on the shelf. Delivery time is a few days. I would suggest the 127 resin and the 350 hardener. I have had the best luck using these resins as there is no blush and subsequent layers are easy. One drawback is that these resins are very slow. thank you pierre! I will look into those suppliers- it is very hot today and I did not make it back to the boat store as I hoped. slow resin is ok- I work slow when need be :)

[e39dream]

what ounce size cloth do you guys suggest for fusing the plywood to the back wall? I see theres alot of choices and I don't want to order anything I can't use.

it looks like I can get a kit with the 350 hardener and 127 resin at 98 bucks for a gallon and a half- would that be enough juice to do a 2'x2' patch on the back wall and some other tiny repairs? I'm assuming it would be plenty:)

Mark

[e39dream]

The parts boat that my motor came from has a double thickness of wood on the back wall to support the motor, approximately 2" thick all together. I want to duplicate this thickness to ease the intall in the other boat.

Can I just cut the plywood to shape and then secure it to the back wall with plated bolts and lock nuts + some silicone on the bolts? I was thinking if I used the bolts with round heads and allen keys it wouldn't look that bad from the outside and I trust 6 or 8 big grade 8 bolts over my personal fiberglass ability anyday.

This would also keep some money in my pocket and no waiting for mail order- or resin to dry. any thoughts?

[e39dream]

slept most of the day away today- working nights will do that to you. Going outside now to find something to wrench on.

[Pierre R]

The parts boat that my motor came from has a double thickness of wood on the back wall to support the motor, approximately 2" thick all together. I want to duplicate this thickness to ease the intall in the other boat.

Can I just cut the plywood to shape and then secure it to the back wall with plated bolts and lock nuts + some silicone on the bolts? I was thinking if I used the bolts with round heads and allen keys it wouldn't look that bad from the outside and I trust 6 or 8 big grade 8 bolts over my personal fiberglass ability anyday.

This would also keep some money in my pocket and no waiting for mail order- or resin to dry. any thoughts?No you should not secure the plywood in that fashion. Laminate the plywood to the back wall.

First saturate the plywood in thined epoxy resin. Cut the resin with a small amount of denatured alcohol. Once cured use a layer to ounce and a half mat on the plywood and a layer on the boat. Book the two together and clamp. You can vaccum bag if you would have the room by taping a layer of plastic over the patch with duct tape. Take your household shop vac and suck all the air out. The patch will be stuck good and hard without many bubbles. Minor clamping is all that is needed from that point on.

You can use ounce and a half cloth for all of your patches. You will want to taper the plywood at the edges. If you cannot afford marine grade plywood use waterproof luan underlayment instead. You can get this up to 3/4" thick from some of the better lumber yards. If not, laminate the 1/4 inch with epoxy until you have enough.

The kit from raka at a gallon and a half will do everything you have talked about. Mix your resin in a can and then dump it in a metal paint tray. Use those small cloth rollers about an inch in diameter and about 4" wide. They save resin and roll out the mat beautiful. Also use the horse hair cheap brushes to get the corners. At 75 degrees you will have about 20 minutes before the resin starts to gell but it still spreads when gelling. It just doesn't wet out very well when gelled. When I meant slow, I meant slow. Don't expect to sand for two days or so with raka but expect a superior laminate.

Clean you fingers and hair up with denatured alcohol. You WILL bump the goo on the side of the boat with your head because you are near inverted in some spots just to do the work.

Expect far less than $0.50 per hour for your labor once your project is completed.

[e39dream]

I ended up getting squirrely about 2 hours before work last night and pulling out the rest of the treated decking. I found what looks like a teenage mutant ninja turtle under there! a couple big lumps of foam, about the size of basketballs. one in middle one towards the front. They are outta here, saturated with water.

I went into work to find out it would be a long night. it was. I have been studying for my commercial drivers test and I went straight to the BMV this morning after work and passed the gen. knowledge test first try. time for a career move- daddy needs more boat money. I can't work nights too much more- I don't sleep right.


Pierre- I owe you a frosty drink my friend. I truly appreciate you taking your time to tell me in detail how to patch that plywood in and I will heed your advice. Sometimes I get these notions to do things my way when really tried and true is the way to go.

$.50 cents an hour huh? How'd you know where I work :) I'm not looking to sell or profit from this project. I am a little green to boats but I know some of the sayings:

"break out another thousand" B.O.A.T

"the best day of owning a boat is the day you buy it and the day you sell it"

I spend so much money on stupid things that the boat, at very least, is a reflection of my hard work. something to be proud of. I need that right now.


There was a couple girls yelling as they drove by when I was working on the boat yesterday- I think I'm onto something here.

[Pierre R]

e39dream because boats suck up so much money, boaters have made things easier by talking in boat units instead of money. One boat unit = $1000.00

Your project will get out of hand with the costs about the time that 90% of the work is done. You can't spend money quickly when there is a lot of labor involved but you just wait until nearing lauch. You will spend 30% on 90% of the work and 70% on the remaining 10%. By that time you have to much time invested not to spend spend spend.

I am glad that you consider the project just that instead of a quick cheap way to get into boating.

Here is mine http://groups.msn.com/TrawlerMV/piouspuffin.msnw I have made significant upgrades (read spent more money) since these photos were taken.

[Pierre R]

339dream I just dug up my notes just to give you a feel for your project.

I got the boat for helava cheap eh! $1,500.00 I budgeted around $5,000 and 400 hours for the refit.

My actual costs for the basic refit were $13,372.00 and the hours were 1260.

The survey value was $25,000. My time was worth $8.03 per hour for highly skilled labor. That is damn good.

I have since spent a additional $10,000 and an additional 300 hours on upgrades. The boat is now worth about $33,000. Subtract an additonal $2000 off my wage and recompute using 300 additional hours or $5.21 per hour. That is below minimum wage in Ohiya for a 26' boat that is highly desirable.

[e39dream]

I'll give you 1500.00 cash plus my boats in trade :)

just kidding- that's a really cool little ship you have there. The pilot house picture is my favorite- I love real wood used in boats.

I don't have any set budget in mind but I am trying to be realistic and prioritize at the same time. for instance I bought a 30 some dollar ball/bar for my hitch and the boat isn't going anywhere yet :)

[e39dream]

It is Saturday morning and I'm feeling like working on a boat!!! Just need to decide what to work on and have me some coffee first :) Update with pics of something later today.

[e39dream]

lunch break update: pulled the first layer of wood up on one side to find a wetter, older layer of plywood under it. pulled it up and found the channel filled with wet foam. I also found a beautiful colored frog, alive and well.

I expected to find that foam in there soaked, but I found 2 things that concern me:

1- there are aprrox. 3"x3" squares of wood fiberglassed in a sloppy manner to the fiberglass hull every so often- the glass on them is hard but some that have exposed edges are rotten. what is the purpose of these?

2- in front of the two channels that support the deck some bonehead fiberglassed stacked sheets of insulating foam over everything so now I found another problem area.

It's in the low 90's out there- I'm sweating and swearing at this rotten old thing. I just want to pull out all the water logged, rotten BS and let the hull dry out and start rebuilding.

[e39dream]

haha- went back out there and got rained out about an hour later.

anyway what do you guys think about options for replacing that foam? Should I even bother it? I'd hate to put new wood and screws in only to have to do it again in a year or two.

I am planning on removing some of it for sure near the front and going to pull out the layered insulation- I want to make a cargo area and a spot for one of my fuel tanks to keep as much room as possible free above deck. This will involve cutting the inner wall part of each channel out and building a wooden frame to support the deck in a similar manner yet free up some space.

here's the deck support channels: the one on the right is down to the foam, the left is not taken apart yet.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c207/marxalbums/boysandboats005.jpg

a shot of the beast:
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c207/marxalbums/boysandboats007.jpg

[e39dream]

common sense tells me that foam must go. gonna talk with the local boat shop on suitable replacement foam. I searched the forum and found that everyone replaces wet old foam.. but with what???