Best overall software???

[BarendGrobler]

Hey all!!!
In our design office we use RHINO for initial design (hull & super structure surfaces and frames). From there we use Solid works for the detail desighn because it is parametric and is unlike rhino, suited for solid modeling (plates, bolts/nuts, etc etc etc...) Unfotunetaly however, Solid works is rediculously slow and not to well suited to marne aplications (section drawings through the hull etc.)
I have done some research into overall marine CAD which could easily handle the whole design but these CAD-package designers all claim that their software is ideal!

My Question:
From experience, what CAD-package is the best for overall desighn???:confused:

Any sugestions???

[BarendGrobler]

I Suppose I should mention, we design high speed boats from 8m fishing boats to 30m+ ferries
:)

[CGN]

All of them.....there is no "best all" software some work with certain software some with others, so is very hard to define one i can give you a combination that is one of the most used which is:

Maxsurf + Autocad + Shipconstructor (the full version), this is for engineering and building (basic Design), this is all you need, rhino is a great tool and certanly can add to the mix.

Solidworks is used and quite a lot, but it all depends on how you model and what size of boats, i can see boats up to 40Ft - 50Ft can be model in soldworks, with no problem, Kvichak Marine is using solidworks for a big contract with the coast guard 45Ft Response medium boats, but companies like delta marine model boats up to around 100' in lenght, using solidworks,

http://www.solidworks.com/pages/news/pressreleases/viewrelease.html?prid=446
http://files.solidworks.com/casestudies_eng/pdf/westport.pdf
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9c5QHGuNu0

I know at the end you are the user and if it does not work for you you need to find a solution, i just added this examples to demostrate that is possible an d i have seen it being used for pleasure boats, maybe hardware or the way you approach your modeling is not the optimum, but again you are the user and if it does not work i'm sure Maxsurf + Autocad + Shipconstructor (full version) should be what you need.

if design you are looking to add then:

GHS stability, keep solidworks with cosmos for FEA analysis, NavCad for hull powering and propeller selection

cheers

one more time:...Let the software parade begin! :)

[BarendGrobler]

Thnx CGN, I'll have a look at those links. I suppose youre right, perhaps one should speak to the solid works guys and try to find a solution to the problem rather than switching software.
Cheers:D

[DavidJ]

I know of one company where a couple of friends work and they ran into the same problem with solidworks. They contacted other company's to see what everyone else was using and then decided on Catia. This just happend so no results yet.

[formsys]

The mechanical CAD systems like SolidWorks and Catia are powerful 3D modellers but remember they are designed for mechanical engineers use to design mechanical components. They are really not designed for modelling boat structures.

You mentioned high speed and plates so I guess you are working in aluminium? In that case you carry an aweful lot of overhead in trying to do mechanical-style 3D modelling on something that is actually made up of flat plates and extrusions. Most of the shipbuilding-specific systems will automate things like end cuts and so on whereas in a mechanical CAD system you have to manage that yourself. You also wont easily get the necessary production outputs like nest drawings, profile plots, shell plate drawings and so on.

[BarendGrobler]

Most of the boats we do are in Al but not all, we also do some composite boats. I agree with you, most 3d modeking packages are not specialised for boat stuctures or for the kind of output drawings needed for boat production.
It is therefore that I asked the question, if not a clasic 3D package, what then?
I've read a little about ship-constructor and it seems we are leaning in that direction, I just want some input from guys who have used it and smilar products.

[DavidJ]

The company I was talking about designs boats and I don't believe they have a single mechanical engineer on staff. They used to design all the structure in solidworks and now they are switching to Catia.

[lazeyjack]

can SW unroll a compound plate, and if so where is the tool:))
I can't seem to find it

[Leo Lazauskas]

The best overall software is the gnu suite of compilers and the kaleidoscope of free add-ons at the SourceForge and elsewhere. All other software (CAD or other) is usually too limited to be of much use to me.

[Andrew Mason]

The best overall software is the gnu suite of compilers and the kaleidoscope of free add-ons at the SourceForge and elsewhere. All other software (CAD or other) is usually too limited to be of much use to me.

I agree, whenever people ask me for recommendations for powerful marine design and analysis tools, I always recommend the gnu suite of compilers.

[J DUFOUR]

Hi,

I know very well your problem because we use RHINO and SW 2007 in the same project . we start by drawing a hull in PRO-LINE , design a deck and roof in rhino and make details and the interior design in SW.

The only software I know which can do what RHINO+PRO-LINE+SW do is CATIA v5 with a serious license !

In fact , DASSAULT SYSTEM works a lot with NA to correct and orient this soft for a naval utilisation. Now CATIA v5 r18 integrate MAAT-CIRCE to do hydros and draw hulls , you can define all the fibers ( if it's a fiber boat !) , you can make CFD and FEA and many more ( like with FLUENT!) , make a complet steel structure , complet details of the interior arrangement .You can also work with MS project inside CATIA and define the methods to build correctly the boat . The surfaces are perfects and faires , so easy to draw and modifie.

It's important to modifie rapidely the 3d model every time the client or the yard change something. Rhino can't do that , how many hrs you have lost to change a bullwark or a just the bar on the sundeck ? Can you espect to change the Bmax of your finished model at 1 day of the deadline , just by doing one command : replace by ( like in SW)?

JD

That's why we 're going to buy few licenses !

[ABoatGuy]

Both Catia and UG were originally developed by aircraft companies to design planes (of all things!) and both are widely used in the automotive industry as well. They both have pretty sophisticated surfacing tools that are well suited to yacht work. UG is used in the US by several major yacht/boat companies (SeaRay, US Marine and others). It isn't cheap, but is expandable to do everything from simple surface or solid models (parametric or not), to assemblies as large as aircraft plus CFD, FEA, rendering etc. etc.

What ever you decide on, buy the training that is offered. It is money well spent.

[J DUFOUR]

well, I don't know UG . Can you give the full name and web adress ? Actually we meet DASSAULT SYSTEM and PRO-E in september to make our choice.

We are looking for a VPP software for mono and multi , someone has information about the best of all ?

[CGN]

UG = Unigraphics (me thinks)

http://www.ugs.com/products/nx/

[alidesigner]

If you have any doubts about the ability of solid works have a look at this on you tube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9c5QHGuNu0

Before investing the money in (and time to learn) new software, have a look into more efficient assembley structures to speed up solid works.

[daiquiri]

UG is used in the US by several major yacht/boat companies (SeaRay, US Marine and others)

I can confirm you that several italian boatbuilders use Unigraphics too. There must be some good reason for that.

[rteng97]

You may try intelliship (now called smartMarine) from Intergraph. The last release is not great, but hope they have changed. Please note that Intelliship use the geometric kernels as solidworks (ACIS).

The problems with big players is that you seldom have chance to do the bench mark test. For small firms, you can download the software and try out. But for big firms like Catia, SmartMarine or UG, unless you buy a lot of seats, you don't have chance to do any seriours tests.

Another questions, has anyone tried blender? blender.org, it should be the best one as it is free.