Beam trawl query

[Bergalia]

I've been asked to jot a few notes on commercial fishing traditions for a trade magazine in the UK. In it I will attempt to compare methods adopted in other countries.
Now the question is - can any of you 'old' trawlermen/commercial fisher tell me if the 'beam trawl' (outlawed in the UK) is still used elsewhere. :confused:

[timgoz]

Did a little surfin. The latest I found so far was 1996. Still listed the Brits.

The Netherlands, Germany, and Belgium were all listed at this time. Most boats were Dutch owned, even if operating under another flag.

IN the past I commercially purse seined for salmon in AK. Been out helping a Newfie friend for snow crab & lobster. Been on salmon trollers, and subsistence gill-netted for Char, and Sea Run Brown Trout with the Inuit on the Labrador Coast.

I say all that to show I have no problem with harvesting the Sea. But use is one thing, and abuse another. That type of trawling seems so indiscriminant & destructive!:( It reminds me of "clearcutting" the Sea.

Went off on a tangent there.

Seemed like alot of basic info when I Googled.

Take care Berg.

TGoz

[Bergalia]

Thanks Tim. Must check out the UK end with a couple of 'elderly' contacts. Not that I doubt you. Twenty years since I left the game - but towards the end of the 80's we got a curt note from the UK Board of Trade (bloody bureacrats, never left their desks overlooking the Thames) pointing out that beam trawls 'crushed all in their path - and destroyed mud-dwelling ocean creatures - prawns, shrimps, etc etc.' True of course, so those beamers of my acquaintance switched to other forms. But it may have been voluntary. Left the UK at about that time - so never really went too deeply into the question.

Myself I tried quite a few methods, ring-netting, gill-netting straight trawls etc. Dropped some creels, bit of longlining and squid jigging. Unfortunately the North Sea and Atlantic on the UK side were 'fished out'.
Thanks again. Yours aye Berg

[timgoz]

True fishermen will always find a way.

Those beam trawls I saw on the web sure were handsome vessels. Some reminded me of very large expedition type motoryachts.

I think if anyone would still be at that fishery it would be the Dutch.

The one site said, before the ban, that your kin were becoming more involved.

Speaking of which, though half my blood is English, if I could visit anywhere in the area, it would be the Scottish Highlands & Fiords. The Aran Islands off Ireland have always had a draw on me also.

Tim

[Bergalia]

Trouble was Tim some of the big beams would weigh up to 8/10 tons with a mouth of fifty feet. Efficient in their way - but imagine what that weight, rolling across the ocean floor, would do to the marine ecology.
One of the main problems (and here I'm probably biased) in the North Sea, North Atlantic was the formation Common Market. Before that the 'traditional' blue water fishing nations had their 'own' patches where they'd fished for generations, and for the most part kept to them. Sensible sized mesh allowing future generations of smaller fish to swim through. Ocean husbandry if you like. But come the Common Market nations which had never ventured far from the shore moved in. Small mesh, literally stripping the sea. We'd frequently go into port over a 'slick' of dead, undersized, unmarketable fish discarded by the 'new' fleets.

[safewalrus]

Aye Bergalia mon the beam is alive and well in the UK! not widespread true but alive it certainly is!

After your comments about the Common Market (with which I heartly agree!) I presume that any reference to the British in Iceland is to be ignored (where were you in the sixties and seventies?)

Following on from that I sure in the old days you'd have had the occasional 'fry' from the 'pussers' system - a live firing exercise from the mortars (Mk 10) tended to produce that sort of thing but was very destructive

[lazeyjack]

lookee here, what a lovely ship, note her sheer, biggest side trawler built, one of her water tanks held the best Ru Vodka, (no joke)

[lazeyjack]

http://www.rossrevenge.co.uk/trawl/trawling.htm

there you are max, very interesting

[Raggi_Thor]

You mean like this with on pole on each side?
I haven't seen them in Norway or Iceland the last years :-)
But in the summer I see a lot of really small shrimp trawlers with the gear on one side, not over the stern.

[Guillermo]

In France and Spain is yet used this system, as far as I know, although dissapearing. In Galicia I do not know of pair trawlers anymore.
More modern designs tend to be not just for pair trawling, but also for single trawling.

[SamSam]

This site says there were 200 beam trawlers in 2000 in British Columbia.
http://www.westcoastaquatic.ca/fisheries_overview.htm
Around here, for shrimp,they use the ''otter trawl'', I guess you call it, with big, weighted doors to keep the net open. I believe stretched across in front of the mouth is a heavy chain that drags along the bottom that makes the shrimp jump up off the bottom so the net doesn't go over the top of them and miss them. It would seem to serve the same purpose as the beam, as far as sweeping the bottom clean of anything ecologically usefull. A lot of bycatch. They used to catch/kill a lot of sea turtles but now they have to have TED's, Turtle Excluder Devices, which also lets out some shrimp. There's talk now of bycatch excluders also. Shrimping is a dieing industry here, not from lack of 'scrimp', but regulations, fuel prices and foreign competition from pond raised shrimp. A lot of boats for sale, cheap. Sam

[Bergalia]

Gentlemen, and that is what I consider you to be, I am overwhelmed by your response. (I’ll ensure that credit is given when the article is finally done - may even offer it on the forum ‘A soporific thread...’ Bear with me while I deal with your points.

Walrus, I assume you are referring to the alleged and grossly hyped ‘Cod Wars.’
Never really happened old son. Mainly a storm in a journalist’s beer glass. Obviously with rough weather, tight shoaling fish there was the odd ‘bump’ among ships. But always followed with profuse apologies - and drinks all round at a later date.
The main point of contention was the intrusion of ‘off-comers’ - the ‘new southern’ fleets (quick cash - and retire) muscling in on what had for many generations been the ‘home patch’ of the UK, Scandinavia and even Canadian boats. Especially when they worked with ‘unfair gear’ (small mesh again).
As with most we were frequently ‘boarded’ by Fishery Patrol crews. We could have had a hold full of mermaids for all they cared- without exception they were simply seeking a box of fresh fish for the cook.

Lazeyjack - your tale of the Vodka ballast comes as no surprise. years back I was invited aboard the Krupps Steel tall-ship used for training junior executives. After a splendid dinner I was invited to examine the ballast. As the floorboards slid back I observed case upon case upon case of good German wine.


Raggi, succinct as ever - But I think there is some confusion here over ‘descriptions’ - probably a ‘local’ thing, but the boat in your illustration is what I would call a ‘wing trawler.’ Light nets used for smaller catches - shrimp, prawn, sprats and sardine (but none-the-less a valid and important catch.)

The beams I refer to more resemble the description given by SamSam. A wide stirrup shaped net - the mouth held open at the base by a heavy beam - an axle of iron wheels. Not unlike a necklace on a flat surface. And as SamSam says: “ sweeping the bottom clean of anything ecologically useful. A lot of bycatch.” Not only that the weight of the beam - often in the region of ten tons crushes those beasties which burrow in the mud...destroying the initial food-chain.
Again to quote SamSam “Shrimping is a dieing industry here...”
In Scotland the ‘voluntary’ move against ‘beam trawls’ began in the 1980’s when the Norwegian Prawn (Nephrops) boats found their catches drastically cut. Investigations proved that it was the beams which were crushing their habitat, the beast and its spawn.


Guillermo - your picture reminds me of purse-seiner colleagues who teamed up to drag the heavy beams. A third boat was needed to manoeuvre between the ‘work’ pair to accept the haul. This was both wasteful in effort and caused much dissent in eventual sharing the catch.
Incidentally many of these beams were so large and heavy that they seldom came ashore, instead being parked just offshore and marked with bouys - adding to the hazards for other local traffic. As though fishcages weren’t enough....

But again gentlemen, I am indebted to your knowledge, experience, and anecdote. I just knew I’d come to the right place. - yours aye, bergalia:)

[lazeyjack]

YES I realised I had mistaken BEAM for Side, I have actually never heard of a BEAM trawl

[Bergalia]

YES I realised I had mistaken BEAM for Side, I have actually never heard of a BEAM trawl

Thanks Stu, yes I realised once I'd written it that it could cause confusion. But as I say - local names for local uses. Typical of talk among tight groups of 'specialists'. Each knows what is being referred to - yet to the outsider it can appear a 'foreign' language and misunderstanding occur - hence with Raggi's offering. Raggi was correct - in your and his interpretation, this was a 'beam (side) trawler.' Mine was beam, as in long supporting structure.
But hell - all the above was great. And thanks again to you all. :)

[Guillermo]

Oh! You were meaning trawling a net opened by a beam! Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Beam trawling is forbidden in Spain with the only exception (known to me) of some very little boats in Galicia called 'bous de vara' mainly used to catch crabs and dropped mussels between the mussel rafts.

Cheers.

[Bergalia]

Again thank you all for your interest - and again sorry to have inadvertently 'misled' you with my description of 'beam trawling'. As I explained - local names for local 'games'. Yours aye, Bergalia

[SamSam]

I didn't know what a beam trawl was until I googled it. Here's a site from Greenpeace with underwater video of a beam trawl. I'm not so sure, as it doesn't seem to have a beam keeping the net open, but whatever it is, it's a disaster.
http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/oceans/problems/beam-trawlers-destroying-the-seabed
Guillermo's photo of two boats pulling each side of one net reminds me of a home film I saw on the tube that was shot in the 50's somewhere in Africa. It started with machine gunning a pond full of crocadiles, then showed some natives on foot killing an elephant with spears, which ecologically was OK as that was their ''job'' and that's how they did it, but it was brutal as apparently it's sheer numbers that do the trick and they go for the eyes first to blind them. The last part showed two Land Rovers, maybe a hundred feet apart with a cable strung between them racing through the savanah with a herd of stampeding zebra between them, clipping the feet out from under them at a full gallop. I don't remember if there was a purpose, such as to clean up the place for ranching, or if it was just something fun to do. Sam

[safewalrus]

Bergalia mate I hate to disagree with such a noble fellow but your wrong! If t'wern't such an activity as the three 'Cod Wars' how come several ships got dented (seriously) and traw warps cut during towing thus endangering the 'poor wee fishermen'? or is your wife Icelandic?

[Raggi_Thor]

.... the ''otter trawl'', I guess you call it, with big, weighted doors to keep the net open...

Funny, we row on a lake or a river with a piece of wood at the end of the line with a lot of hooks or "flies", That piece of wood is the otter. Normally we have one on each side an the line going through the boat, on person rowing and the other collecting the fish :-)

[Bergalia]

Funny, we row on a lake or a river with a piece of wood at the end of the line with a lot of hooks or "flies", That piece of wood is the otter. Normally we have one on each side an the line going through the boat, on person rowing and the other collecting the fish :-)


That takes me back to my 'boyhood' in the Highlands Raggi. The otter board - a real 'killer' among the trout. A group of 'bloody butchers'; 'teal and greens' tailed with a 'grouse and claret'...Highly illegal of course (in Scotland anyway) instant fine if you're caught with one in your possession.
But who gets caught ????:)

[timgoz]

Hey Berg,

In your boyhood did you ever catch some of those Scottish Brown Trout???

Tim

PS Aint lookin for no affection, just an answer :) :) :)

[Guillermo]

Here a picture taken in the port of Rianxo, close to where I have my office.
Several of those boats are 'bous de vara', so beam trawlers.
Cheers.

[Bergalia]

Hey Berg,

In your boyhood did you ever catch some of those Scottish Brown Trout???

Tim, I can say with my hand on my heart - in my youth - and later years I was the scourge of the Lords Burton and Lovat's lochs and rivers. Fly, naturally.
Biggest brownie I ever caught (teal and green) was 14 lbs. Biggest salmon (hairy mary) 36 lbs...But of course I have an 'angler's tale).
Crouched in the bushes one evening on the river Glass, near Inverness (Lovat's estate) I hooked into what I thought was a big salmon, and at the same moments heard a crashing in the bushes...Knowing it was my third 'warning' by the ghillie (this time he was entitled to consficate my rod, tackle and even the car) I whipped the rod back to break the line...instead I yanked the fish up onto the gravel...and in that split moment realised it was a trout of 'enormous proportions) 20 -25lb at least. But before I could reach it, it had flapped its way back into the water. So I turned to proclaim my innocence to the ghillie - only to be confronted with a startled cow which had come down to drink....
Trout, by the way, are not considered 'game fish' in the Highlands and you are free to fish on any water - even 'private' beats - as long as you are tackled up for trout, and not the salmon. In fact you could fish (for trout) beside HM the Queen on the Balmoral waters and there's nothing (rpt) NOTHING she or her entourage could do to move you...
Never fished beside the Queen - but I have frequently with Billie Connolly..but so have all the Highland regulars. A great guy - totally unaffected.:)

[timgoz]

To flop that monster onto shore he was either already running at you, or you had one heck of a strong leader :)

I was fishing a lake in Newfoundland once. Right where the lake ran out into a small whitewater river I hooked what I est. to have been a 22lb. "Winonish" a landlocked Atlantic Salmon. IF I would have immeidietly worked up the shore away from the outlet I may have had a snowball's chance. My 6lb. line parted with the fish 3ft. in front of me. Don't know if he went down the river or up the lake as I had looked to Heaven in disbelief:(

Take care Berg.

Tim

[timgoz]

Sorry for getting off-topic.

[Bergalia]

To flop that monster onto shore he was either already running at you, or you had one heck of a strong leader :) Tim

Strong leader Tim - I was 'illegally' tackled up for salmon...As an odd aside the Highlanders call the 'heavier trace' a 'Wullie Wallace' (strong leader...)
And what's with this 'off the topic'... makes a change from all that boring boating stuff...kitchen designs and such...pah....:)

[timgoz]

Still waiting for a call back from our state's Dept. of Eviromental Protection. There was an oil slick flowing out of a tributary into the main creek at my favorite fishing hole yesterday. Guess they don't want to disturb thier weekend for something like that. I'll check tomorrow and if nothing has been done, e-mail a letter to the local newspaper. Our state workers have no shame though, so I doubt they would care. Wankers!

I was pulling in a small brown (11') the other evening around dark. A 2ft.+ fish attacked it repeatedly while I reeled it in. Bass, Pike, giant Brownie??? Hopefully I'll find out :) The light was to bad to ID it.

Alot of the water in the UK is controlled by private interests I take it?

Tim

[Bergalia]

A 2ft.+ fish attacked it repeatedly while I reeled it in. Bass, Pike, giant Brownie???Alot of the water in the UK is controlled by private interests I take it?
Tim

Possibly a feral trout (hooked beak like a parrot..extreme cannibals...Great eating) - but more likely a pike...also good eating - but watch for the bones.

Most waters in England and Wales are private. The same with southern Scotland. But the Highlands retains an eliment of 'independence' - lots and lots of lochs and hill lochans. 'Nae bugger owns they...' And of course the trout not classed as a game fish helps. (And as any good Highlander will assure you - the salmon he caught wasn't wearing an owner's address...)
Look out - here come those boatie types who'll start whining that we're 'Off topic...':rolleyes:

[lazeyjack]

like to take you 2 fishing in Ouvea lagoon, 15 mile across, near New Calidonia , marvellous green jobfish, trouble is makos take most of the hook up. best fish I ever ate, along with dorado

[Bergalia]

Jeff...dock this man a dozen points - he's off topic. This is a boating forum, not a bloody anglers bar.....:P

[timgoz]

The best fish I've ate is either King Salmon or Pacific Ling Cod. Your suppossed to be able to eat Atlantic Cod everyday without getting tired of it. I'm tired of it halfway through the meal. Bland.

Pike would be my first thought on the above (attacking fish), but they drained and then refilled the dam the creek runs into. Some could have survived in the channel though. I'd like to think it is a large Brown.

Fancy yachty types will probably fish- if you bait thier hooks and take there fish off for them :) Problem is they start skipping rocks & such if they do not immiedeitly start to catch fish.

Tim

[Bergalia]

...Fancy yachty types will probably fish- if you bait thier hooks and take there fish off for them :) Problem is they start skipping rocks & such if they do not immiedeitly start to catch fish.
Tim

Nah Tim, can't imagine yachy types skipping rocks and such...Most are elderly and overweight.They'd maybe just shuffle to fridge for another beer...Then dash of a note to the Boat Design Forums whingeing about loss of points.... :)

[timgoz]

Yep, :)

Tim

[lazeyjack]

Nah Tim, can't imagine yachy types skipping rocks and such...Most are elderly and overweight.They'd maybe just shuffle to fridge for another beer...Then dash of a note to the Boat Design Forums whingeing about loss of points.... :)

oi!!!! who said I wuz overweight, 1.83 90kg, dont have a beer fridge, and the whine !! celler is always empty

[lazeyjack]

Jeff...dock this man a dozen points - he's off topic. This is a boating forum, not a bloody anglers bar.....:P

invite orf, you are becommin' a typical Ozzie DOB IN THY NEIGHBOUR

[safewalrus]

OOOO! Laze, I like it when you get ruff! thats retreads for you - no sense of honour!

[Frosty]

Nah Tim, can't imagine yachy types skipping rocks and such...Most are elderly and overweight.They'd maybe just shuffle to fridge for another beer...Then dash of a note to the Boat Design Forums whingeing about loss of points.... :)

Talking to me?

[Bergalia]

Talking to me?


No, No Jack. It's "You talkin to me...(pause) Are you talkin to me...." Then jump in your taxi and drive off.
Now, go and practice in front of the mirror...:p

[Guest-3-12-09-9-21]

13517
This is one of the "skimmer boats" fishing for shrimp in Bayou Lafourche - does this qualify as a beam trawl?
--Chuck

[Bergalia]

13517
This is one of the "skimmer boats" fishing for shrimp in Bayou Lafourche - does this qualify as a beam trawl?


I've included a sketch of a 'small' beam trawl used here in Australia for 'prawning'. The type I had in mind were the relaly big versions once/perhaps still used in Northern Hemisphere to scour the ocean floor. Between the runners in the sketch the northern version had a series of wheels mounted on a beam - plus 'doors' to keep the net open at the middle.

[lazeyjack]

nu you were old but not that old
BERGALIAbuilt by Ailsa Shipbuilding Company,
Yard No 392
Engines by Ailsa SB Co TroonPropulsion: Steam 6 cyl triple expansion.
Built: 1925
Ship Type: unspecified
Tonnage: 548 grt | 195 nrt | 340 dwt
Length: 159 feet
Breadth: 35 feet
Draught: 8 feet
Owner History:
Illawarra & South Coast Steam Navigation Company Sydney
Status: Not Recorded -

Last updated: by Paul Strathdee from the original records by Stuart Cameron

[Bergalia]

Fascinating stuff Lazey. Thanks - opened up a new source of interest. Bergalia, by the way, is said to be one of the 'original' Aboriginal clans who inhabited this part of the NSW coastline. Gone now of course. Only a few traces left, fishtraps, oyster middens and such - though I did find a broken stone axe head whilst fossicking near Mogo.

[safewalrus]

Thought you'd be keeping the midden going - remind ye of the croft!

[Bergalia]

Thought you'd be keeping the midden going - remind ye of the croft!

Wouldn't be without one Walrus...beats a sauna anyday....:)

[safewalrus]

Aye ken wit ya mean - it's the aroma ye ken!! Lovely!;)