Electrical systems

[TerryKing]

Discussion thread for Electrical systems (http://www.boatdesign.net/wiki/Electrical systems). If you would like to add a comment, click the New Reply button

[Crag Cay]

Hi Terry,

Looks a good structure. My only comments would be to remove 'Rechargeable Storage Batteries' from section 2 and give them a section of their own. Partly because they are not strictly sources of power per se, and secondly they are common to all systems and have so many unique considerations.

Also it might be worth adding 'water power' to your list of energy supplies as they are very effective on long trade wind passages in particular.

[TerryKing]

OK, I moved Rechargeable Storage Batteries into their own category, as you suggested. They are both sources and loads.. And there's a lot of information and details needed about them.

Can you point to info on the 'water powered' generator possibilities? I've only seen one that is like a "fish overboard".

[bilgeboy]

That is both generous and ambitious, Terry.

I appreciate you sharing your hard work and mind with the world.

Thanks,

Mike

[Crag Cay]

Hi Terry,

Yes, here's a couple of links:
www.ampair.com/ampair/waterpower.asp
www.duogen.co.uk

In addition to these, there are lots of DIY articles around on tapping into power from a free spinning main engine propellor, etc, but this sort of arrangement has never appealed to me because of the noise / rumbling and the damage it can do to some types of gear box.

The key benefit of water power is the output is a simple function of boat speed on all points of sail. Even downwind in the trades (when electrical demand from the autopilot is greatest), the output peaks when boat speed and demand are at maximum.

However a wind generator functions in the vessel's apparent wind. Downwind in 20+ knots of tradewinds, with the boat surging forward at 8 or 9 kts, the wind generator only 'feels' 11 or 12 kts of apparent wind, which for the more robust generator models, like the Ampair we had, means precious little output.

Obviously at anchor they are useless, but each of the above models can be rigged as wind generators as well. The Duogen seems to offer more convenience and an ability to be used as a wind generator in a marina berth, whereas the Aquair trades on proven ruggedness and reliability, albeit at the expence of more involved rigging and handling.

With faster boats (multihulls and Class 40 Pogos, etc) this decline in apparent wind will be even more marked, however there are additional problems with adapting the output from a water generator to their greater boat speed range.

[Ike]

Wow. That looks really good. It seems pretty inclusive. Are you going to deal with related problems such as galvanic corrosion, and shock hazards? Just how in depth are you going to get, or are you going to use links to other sites? This can get very long and extensive. On my site the electrical pages alone are 16 pages.

[TerryKing]

Wow. That looks really good. It seems pretty inclusive. Are you going to deal with related problems such as galvanic corrosion, and shock hazards? Just how in depth are you going to get, or are you going to use links to other sites? This can get very long and extensive. On my site the electrical pages alone are 16 pages.

Ike, I'm hoping (strongly) that WE use this to collect all the stuff WE've learned! Please consider cutting and pasting the work you did on your pages to what looks like the appropriate place. Maybe get Peter to help you...

And feel free to update the Outline (Table of Contents). You do that by clicking the EDIT button at the top, rather than the Edits to the right of the individual sections. You'll see that the "---" (dash) character is used to set up the outline entries, starting with two "--" for the highest level. So,
--This is a highest level outline/TOC--
---This will go at the next level down---
----etc----

I'm hoping Dave Pascoe will let us grab some excerpts from his site.

I certainly think we should link to the great stuff that's already out there, rather than reinventing/writing the wheel. There's a tradeoff in 'longevity' but much stuff is pretty solid.

Galvanic Corrosion certain is an Electrical Systems issue (even when it's an UnPlanned Electrical System Event)..

Electrical Safety is definitely a subject. I think it should be covered both as a section, and at "point of use" in the other sections. Few people seem to understand the way Shore Power (including it's "Green-Safety Ground") is supposed to be isolated from boat DC Common/Seawater Ground. Big boats have an alarm that goes off if there's more than a volt or two difference between them and we should figure out how to homebrew one.

So, to all the boatdesign/boatsailors/boatlovers, it's US, not ME!

[Ike]

Quotes are ok, but links are better. Just set it up so when they open a link it opens in a new window. That way when they are done they can just close the window and it brings them right back to where they were.

As you said, why re-invent the wheel. Use what's already there. But remember some of this stuff is copyrighted. So although it might fall under Fair Use, it's better to ask.

I hope David Pascoe helps out. He has some great content on his site.

[TerryKing]

Quotes are ok, but links are better. Just set it up so when they open a link it opens in a new window. -(snip)--
Ike, I agree, anything of length or detail should be a link. What I'd like to do is have a sort sentence or two or short paragraph summarizing the content of the link so readers can decide if it's relevant to their interests. Too often I found myself clicking on a bunch of links in an article, just to find that the content wasn't what I needed..

Hmm. Let me experiment with 'new window'.. is there a specific way to control that in the Wiki??
** It seems like it's a direct link, not a 'new window'. What I do is right-click on a link and open in a new tab; maybe we can suggest that in the opening section??

Thanks!

[unalsari]

please help me to do electrıcal systems on boat or yatch or motor-boat ı need some one please help me

[Ike]

See http://newboatbuilders.com/pages/electricity1.html

[unalsari]

thanks for helpıng but ı need a project that drawn on cad to do electrıc system on ıt

[Ike]

Are you looking for sample wiring diagrams? If you are, what kind of boat? Is it sail or power? Inboard, outboard? Gas? diesel? How big. We need more information on what you are trying to do to help you.

[unalsari]

ı am an electrıc engıneering students ı have a homework that about electrıcal systems on boats and ı need a drawn project on cad that ı drawn electrıc wırıng and whatever ıt necassary ıt can be lest 15 m motorboat or saılıng ıt s not ımportant but ıt can be on autocad program because to ı can draw on ıt

[KnottyBuoyz]

Here young fella. I'll do your homework for ya! Here maybe this will get you started. If that's not good 'nuff try this fella for some inspiration.

http://www.midcoast.com/~aft/index2.html

[unalsari]

thanks for your care but ı guess ı couldnt tell my problem ı dont need electrıc project just need boat project ı wıll do electrıc project on ıt ok?

[KnottyBuoyz]

Ooops! Ok then. Sorry, can't help.

[chabrenas]

Terry, I've just had my first go at Wiki editing - adding ISO 10133 to the electrical section. Tell me whether I'm going too deep by naming the other standards to which it makes normative references (i.e. it defines things in terms of other things defined in those standards). And tell me what I've done wrong with the links...

[Ike]

Oops.

Terry, after re-reading this thread I realized I did not answer your question about opening a link in a new window. It appears Wikipedia does this automatically. But just in case the HTML code looks like this:

<a href="http://www.metalboatsociety.org" target="_blank">Metal Boat Society</a>

What makes it open in a new window is target="_blank" The _blank is the command for a new window.

[chabrenas]

What markup can I use to create indentation? I have a standard followed by a list of others referred to by it. I'd like to make the list clearly subsidiary to the main standard in some way - indentation, with or without bullets, is one way. How would you do it?

I presume one is not meant to use raw HTML as a markup language..

[Jeff]

You can use a colon : before a line to indent (or :: to indent two over, etc.) and a asterisk * to create a bullet (double ** to create a subbullet) in the wiki Number lists are done in the wiki using the # sign before each line.