Dutch Euro Barges, None in North America?

[TeddyBear]

I live in a city with a very expensive core and I was given the suggestion by a friend living in the uk. Buy a barge, convert it and live by the water. This is a common thing done his way. The problem is that the type of Boats you need in order to do this are not found in North America. I’m looking for a Dutch style river barge at around 70 to 80ft in length and 16 to 18 feet wide. Have none ever come over here? Is there any way to find something similar? Any idea the manufacturing costs if I would to have it made here? How much does it costs to have something like that brought over? I’ve kind of got hung up on the idea as that I lived on a large boat for about 3 years and enjoyed it. If anybody has any idea as to how somebody living in Vancouver could figure out how to pull this off, it would be much appreciated. In case you don’t know what kind of boat I’m talking about, I have placed a link below of what they normally look like.

http://www.borderlinedaft.com/Barge/Apr05-001.jpg

[MarkC]

www.botenbank.nl

Have a bit of patience with the search proceedure (all in Dutch)
Under Category you can choose 'Beoreps' (surveyed) then choose 'stahl', enter the size you want etc. Experiment a bit.

For example: below this 1920's motorised barge 17 meters long for €29,500.

Check your import duties though. It may be cheaper to have one made where you are.

Read in www.metalboatsociety.com - an alaskan is thinking of a motorised-liveaboard-scow. maybe of interest.

[TeddyBear]

www.botenbank.nl

Have a bit of patience with the search proceedure (all in Dutch)
Under Category you can choose 'Beoreps' (surveyed) then choose 'stahl', enter the size you want etc. Experiment a bit.

For example: below this 1920's motorised barge 17 meters long for €29,500.

Check your import duties though. It may be cheaper to have one made where you are.

Read in www.metalboatsociety.com - an alaskan is thinking of a motorised-liveaboard-scow. maybe of interest.


With 600 sq foot apartments going to 500,000, i can't see the import being much worse. Thanks a ton, with a little help from babelfish, im sure ill find a way around the web site.

Keep the ideas coming guys.

[ted655]

You are working on a couple misconceptions. First, you can't just buy a boat & "live" on the water. Second, you don't need a Dutch Barge to live on.
You will find that water living is being pushed out. Water accessable property of ANY kind is a big deal to the upscale developers. Please research the area you think you will live in AND the future plans for that area. Next, there are sanatation laws (strict ones) as well as power source issues. Check them out carefully & be realistic about your needs. I'd rent & live at least 3 months on the water before I jumped in with both feet. Then, there is the maintainence chores & COSTS. There is no free lunch, "living" on the water. Only in the movies is it fun & carefree.
OK, so you are 1 of the very few to find a nich on the water, good, welcom.
Why a Dutch Barge? 70'-80' long? He,he, you haven't done your homework. First, finding a berth that long is very difficult. Second, the fees are "per foot". Do the math. Better to consider a square or rectangle boat. Often houseboats *not the status symble of the DB I admit) can be found with poor or failed engines. They sell cheap & for your purpose, you don't need an engine, or much of one.
The UK isn't the US when it comes to mindsets & traditions. Water living is viewed VERY differently here I'm sad to say. Pick up the phone and make a few calls. Walk the docks & talk to water dwellers themselves. Your going to come face to face with some sobering reality. Particuarly in urbin areas.

[Tad]

TBear,

Actually there is a big iron Dutch (type) canal barge cruising about Vancouver, she made a guest appearance in the Gulf Islands last summer. There was another ancient iron double-ender brought over 20 years ago and converted for liveaboard cruising in Victoria.

But the problem is not the vessels, it's where do you put it? There is no moorage available for 70 footers, especially liveaboard. If there was it will cost at least $1500 a month anyplace close to the city. In the past you could anchor out in False Creek and live aboard, but the city has pushed everyone out of there, only allowing temp moorage now. And we have to deal with local no-discharge laws, which is problematic.

There are a number of local floating communities made up of float houses/barges like this....


12103

[Crag Cay]

There is also nothing about a Euro barge that makes them uniquely suitable for live aboard use. They are popular round here because they are available fairly readily now their economic working life has been curtailed by the principal European canals being enlarged for larger vessels.

But, the bridge and tunnel height on many of the quieter, less commercial waterways is still 3.50m (11ft 3inches), so this same low air-draught that drove their design in the first place, still restricts peoples' choices today in which recreational / live aboard boats they can use. The look of them is also 'at home' here, so replicas are also a pleasing way of designing a boat that meets the physical limitations of these waterways.

But I doubt you have the same air-draught restrictions. You will probably be more constrained by mooring fees calculated on length. For you it will make more sense to be shorter, but have at least two, if not three decks. And even the marinas that tolerate 'liveaboards' (fewer and fewer) are usually pretty 'sniffy' about 'house boats'. They prefer 'cruising boats' that may not go out much, but at least are boats.

With your heritage in the Pacific Northwest, you might find a suitable design based on a tug boat form (not a real tug) or as you have access in summer to fairly quiet water amongst the San Juans and Gulf Islands, one of Benford's Florida Coasters might offer you the greatest living space for the lowest monthly bills. Commercial steel boat building yards in your areas would be able to quote you a fairly accurate build price if you showed them the 'study plans' bought from the designer of any boats that took your fancy. These 'study plans' would also let you approach the owners of any suitable mooring sites to see what the realities might be for 'living aboard'.

But as these are real boats, they will be much more expensive to construct than putting a trailer home on a rotting old dumb barge and calling it 'chez moi'. That might be both possible and even sufficient up some rural backwater in northern Florida, but is becoming unrealistic near population centres where ever you might be.

[TeddyBear]

OK, I was ready for the negative downers, every forum has them.
First, there is a great little dock downtown near Cordova street which is more than affordable for 70ft long ships, the monthly costs are less than most condo fees, I know this because it already has two house boats there and I’ve met one of the owners.

Living on a boat in the Bahamas for 3 years has made me very aware of the fees and considerations of what’s needed to live like that. And yes ted655, you can just buy a boat and live on it in British Columbia. In fact, I would argue that we need more regulation here as that up in Nanaimo we have a number of borderline homeless who can’t be legally removed from the boats they live on even though they are a safety hazard. The costs for maintaining a boat is still less than what it costs to live in a small apartment in town. Vancouver apartment are near the same costs found in New York and Sanfran.

The reason why I want a Dutch barge is the same reason why some people want a Cape Cod home, I like the look of them and I like how simple they are designed. I’ve seen a couple well visiting Europe, and they were far from trailers on the waters. One I got to see looked more like a loft on the water. We don’t have the canal system here in North America that they have in Europe, so no, we could not handle the excess that most of Europe can. But if you look around, keep your ears to the ground, you’ll find there are plenty of spots for large boats that are ignored by the tourist zones.

[ted655]

:eek: Me? Negative downer? Oh contrair. realistic, backed by a little been there, done that and always ready to stop a train wreck. But... call em as you see em.
Eyes wide open, good for you! Go for it. Glad to hear there is still a spot or two the developers haven't found yet. Tick, tick, tick.
I wanted to buy a Dutch Barge to cruise on. I never found a solatary one on this side of the pond. From this website I did find some nice guys in Eastern Canada that would weld up one of the kits offered from the UK. After being "negative" to myself (cost analises), I settled for a Houseboat.
Good kuck!:D

[dick stave]

Check out www.dutch-barges.net [Branson Boat design].There are some really nice replica d.barge designs on this site.You buy the cutting files,steel,rent some shop space out in the valley,pay my wages,and ill
build your dutch barge for ya...When shes all done we can drop her in the Fraser and youre all set.

[TeddyBear]

:eek: Me? Negative downer? Oh contrair. realistic, backed by a little been there, done that and always ready to stop a train wreck. But... call em as you see em.
Eyes wide open, good for you! Go for it. Glad to hear there is still a spot or two the developers haven't found yet. Tick, tick, tick.
I wanted to buy a Dutch Barge to cruise on. I never found a solatary one on this side of the pond. From this website I did find some nice guys in Eastern Canada that would weld up one of the kits offered from the UK. After being "negative" to myself (cost analises), I settled for a Houseboat.
Good kuck!:D


No need to be grouchy or snide. The reason I don't put up with people trying to pick apart ideas on forums is because my greatest successes have come from ignoring the "it’s a bad idea" mentality. People thought I was nuts to take a month off to make up a board game, but the 20,000 dollar check I got later says otherwise. They also said I was crazy for putting 8 grand into publishing a comic book that nobody else would publish, stating that it had no market. Yet somehow the money I made off of it paid for 2 years of my school. Disney for a while paid me very good money because somehow I take what others consider unrealistic ideas and make them not only work, but thrive.
I'm all for listening to somebody who says “make sure to look at this and make sure to check this”, but i don't put up with "that idea won't work, give up and do something else" mentality.

[TeddyBear]

Check out www.dutch-barges.net [Branson Boat design].There are some really nice replica d.barge designs on this site.You buy the cutting files,steel,rent some shop space out in the valley,pay my wages,and ill
build your dutch barge for ya...When shes all done we can drop her in the Fraser and youre all set.

Kick ASS! great to know

[dick stave]

I think you are on the right path T.B. If you want to do something in life there are always going to be a lot of people give you a lot of reasons why you cant. I would like to engage in a discussion regarding the REAL possibility
of living aboard in local B.C. waters.It is also a dream of mine. the reason for steel construction on most barges of this type is cost .With anti fouling paint
on new steel and marine epoxy coatings on topsides probably not as much
maintenance as you think.By the way ,Ted moderates a live aboard site on yahoo and is a knowledgeable guy.Im a shanty boat fan too...

[ted655]

===="No need to be grouchy or snide. "=====
Again, not true. I was being neither. When you post, be prepaired to here an opinion that may differ from yours. What does it hurt you to look at something from a different angle? We aren't all "yes" men here. When you post, we have no idea of your life experiences. i sence a touch of " chip on shoulder" here. Relax.
Your a self starter, & have found a boat builder. Great. Go have a good life. Just quit trying to define me. I don't hang out here to screw with people.

[TeddyBear]

I sure he’s amazing, but I after a contract working as a Disney “Imagineer” (designer) I’ve seen some pretty amazing projects become reality. A river boat home seems like a great challenge. I've got about 8 more months to a year of classes before i can event start anything like this, but i figure there is no harm in starting the research now.

[TeddyBear]

===="No need to be grouchy or snide. "=====
Again, not true. I was being neither. When you post, be prepaired to here an opinion that may differ from yours. What does it hurt you to look at something from a different angle? We aren't all "yes" men here. When you post, we have no idea of your life experiences. i sence a touch of " chip on shoulder" here. Relax.
Your a self starter, & have found a boat builder. Great. Go have a good life. Just quit trying to define me. I don't hang out here to screw with people.


My apologies if you thought I was picking at you, but I have vision of the type of space I want, I’ve never liked houses, and a floating house does not seem boat like enough. A multimillion dollar Yatch is out of my budget and I just think those old barges have so much more character. When I got tour one, I fell in love. Its same reason why some people like old bricks walls and wood floors, there is a charm. I am very aware there are challenges, but it’s not just about money for me, it’s something I’ve thought about for a good long while, and if I have to blow my savings to build a home, I want something that has personality.

[Tad]

Okay....I've got some more negativity :D

Not saying you can’t do it, I’m sure you can. But I am asking why? Just because we can do something doesn’t mean we should.

Amazing Disney projects aside; and I agree that technically they might be interesting. There is such as thing as local culture, the fabulous BC coast is not Amsterdam.....it's different. The reason I live here is that this place is not Cape Cod, or London, or Hong Kong.

As a designer I work hard to integrate my work with existing culture/infrastructure, so that it dos not appear as incongruous as Downeast Lobsterboats on the Rivera. This is why I posted the picture above, "floathouses" have been a part of PNW culture for over 100 years, and their communities are part of what makes this place unique in the world.

I love European canal barges, and that is why I would cruise the Rhine and the Rhone aboard one. But I won't advocate building them here in BC.

Tad

[ted655]

Being a man of vision, don't miss the forest for the trees. If I wanted one & you wanted one, then someone else here in NA wants one. You 2 guys team up . Build the boat & offer it for sale. If no takers, THEN live on it.
The worlds biggest tug & tow boat builder was started by the husband who built small wood rowboats & the wife who rented them.

[duluthboats]

A.C. Gondola N.A. ( http://www.nwmarinedesign.com/ from Poulsbo, WA ) had a really nice looking cruiser/barge that I saw in a design catalog. It was called the Harpoon, 64’ LOA, 10’ beam, and 3’7” draft. I don’t see it on his site but you could ask.
Gary

[TeddyBear]

Consider This. I would like a home on the water, not necessarily to cruise, but just occasionally to move. Most anybody on this forum can at least understand that perspective. I'm sure a lot of people love the look of a normal house boat, but I think they are a bit gaudy, i don't want home built on flat barge. It’s not something I could look at day to day and feel happy living in. Plus I could never take something like that between Vancouver and Victoria on a annual basis. You can't put an engine in them very easily.
No, your very right, we don’t have the canal infrastructure to support this as a trend. But I don’t see a why a few could not get away with it. Sure, I would love a multimillion dollar yacht, it would have the space I need, look great, But that’s out of my budget. I want a classic movable hull, as affordable as a small home, capable of having enough space that I don’t feel like I’m in a trailer. I have not seen anything besides these old dutch barges that meet this requirement without being in a million dollar price range.

[Greenseas2]

There is no reason that Dutch style barges wouldn't work in North America, and it might be a lucrative market at that. To address your problem of availability of such hull design, you might want to look at the Selway Fisher designs on their website. Paul Fisher has a design of a 45 foot Teign River Gravel Barge made of epoxy and strip plank that should be a good starting place, go together rather quickly and be economical to build and power. The superstructure and stern aren't exactly Dutch Barge, but that is easy enough to change. With the cost of homes in North America going through the roof, it would seem like a line of moderately priced Dutch style barges would have a great market and would be a great visual improvement to some of the live aboard boats that I've seen tied to the banks along the ICW in both the north and south as well as some of the canals. The design of the Fisher Barge is 45 feet long and has 4 sleeping cabins, head and salon below decks. Not many individuals or couples would need more room than this. Just get some large metal stakes to drive into the bank at the water's edge to tie up to and a good gang plank and you're there.

[skipperG]

Hey, enjoy the opinions. Lived on a barge in Homa, La. I'm not familiar with your area but a river barge might do. Saw good advice to look for something that you could buy instead of build. Also, I was watching tv and a home show featured a conventionally built house on floats, it was a story and a half (2 levels) and could be towed by the boat in the garage (slip one first level). I've been on a couple of the boats in Holland, I dn't remember them being cheap living or to cruise. Stay with the dreams :cool:

[skipperG]

Say, there is a link at this site, designs; Selway 41' steel barge, plans are available-think this is what ur wanting.

[TeddyBear]

i found a place that does the precut steel for a 66 footer which is getting closer to the size i want. They are pretty cheap, it looks like most of the cost would come from hiring somebody to put it togther and renting the space.

[brian eiland]

Just wondering what ever became of your dream there Teddy??

I have some superb photos of a particularily pretty canal boat, but I've never posted them yet...maybe this subject thread, since it did offer some good conflicting views on liveaboard vessels, be it barge or floating home/cottage.

In the meantime I did see this interesting site that Tad posted to another such subject thread on this forum:
http://www.euroshipservices.nl/english/default.htm?http%3A//www.euroshipservices.nl/english/standaardpakketten.asp%3FPakketID%3D116

...and here was another one...USA built...posted there as well
http://www.amazonboatcompany.com/

In fact here is that other subject thread:
Dutch Barges (http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/boat-design/dutch-barges-30618.html)

[brian eiland]

Consider This. I would like a home on the water, not necessarily to cruise, but just occasionally to move. ......I want a classic movable hull, as affordable as a small home, capable of having enough space that I don’t feel like I’m in a trailer. I have not seen anything besides these old dutch barges that meet this requirement without being in a million dollar price range.
I think this vessel would fit right in up there in Vancouver :cool:

Le Bon Temps Roule (http://www.lebontempsroule.org/)
(by the way, turn on your speakers when you open this site)

[RCardozo]

There is a Authentic Dutch barge for sale in the Tampa area of Florida. She is the Neeltje and she is very handsome. A couple named Canwright own her. She has been for sale for about 2 years. I think they are asking about $150,000. She is 60' long and maybe 14' wide. Google Dutch sailing barge and you can find her.

[brian eiland]

Here is an older listing with some photos:
http://www.sailingtexas.com/sdutchbarge62a.html

The story is she came from Balt before her trip to Florida. I believe I remember seeing this very vessel down in the Annapolis area years ago...down off the South River. I distinctly remember that multi-paned glass window/cabin bulkhead

[brian eiland]

...and another reference to Neeltje (http://tampa.creativeloafing.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A6477)

Sounds as though they had to do quite a bit of work on her bottom.

RCardozo, are you still up in the Balt area?

[RCardozo]

The picture is of The Dutch Sailing Barge Neeltje. She was in Baltimore and relocated to Tampa. She is a pretty vessel. The Canwrights owned her at the time. My vessel is larger and less authentic but built at about the same time. I am still in Baltimore. The boat is repainted beige and white with a black and red trim. She travels around usually north of the bay bridge.

[apex1]

In the meantime I did see this interesting site that Tad posted to another such subject thread on this forum:
http://www.euroshipservices.nl/english/default.htm?http%3A//www.euroshipservices.nl/english/standaardpakketten.asp%3FPakketID%3D116

s[/URL]

Nice Barges Brian,

but you are aware that they are not cheap? And that the shipping from EU to Pacific Northwest is above 100 thousand $$$ for a vessel that size.?

Regards
Richard

[brian eiland]

...but you are aware that they are not cheap? And that the shipping from EU to Pacific Northwest is above 100 thousand $$$ for a vessel that size.?

Regards
Richard
I could well imagine an expensive trip to ship to the NW.

But with all the steel boatbuilding that goes on up there I would imagine you could find someone to do a bang up job for a reasonable price. Then maybe find someone else to fit it out.

I particularly like the looks of that classic 'sailing design', even though I understand it didn't sail particularly 'fashionable'

I have another absolute beauty I what to post but my scanner is on the friz

[brian eiland]

.... My vessel is larger and less authentic but built at about the same time. I am still in Baltimore. The boat is repainted beige and white with a black and red trim. She travels around usually north of the bay bridge.
I believe this posting by RCardozo on another barge subject thread bears repeating here:
The real truth about a Dutch barge

I have been reading these posts and there is a lot of confusion about these vessels. I own the "Morgenster" ("Morning Star" in Dutch). She is a Dutch 73' sailing barge built in 1893 in Leiderdorp Holland. She is constructe of hammered iron plates rivetted together. This is similar to mild steel. These vessels were built to haul smaller cargo loads in canals rivers and coastal areas. I am in Baltimore on The Chesepeake bay. The bay is a shallow estuary similar to the former inland seas of Holland. My vessel was built before the combustion engine took over so it is sail powered. The mast is on a hinge so it can be lowered to go under bridges and sell produce in town via the canal system. Being a cargo vessel the design is to maximize blockage for cargo. Lots of space, easy in and easy out. The flat bottom reduced draft and allowed the boats to beach at low tide load cargo and then float off at high tide. My draft is 3'. The leeboards on the sides were used to avoid the maintenance and inconvenience of a center well and they also utilize an airfoil curve to assist in windward performance. When power came on the scene the hull shape changed with more pointed bows and no leeboards. Since these boats were carrying cargo they were very heavily loaded. The big rounded bow and stern added buoyancy to keep from being over taken by seas. The weather a barge can handle has a lot to do with the load. Since use as a yacht is very lightly loaded a Dutch barge can handle some rough seas. I have had mine out in the bay in 65 mph winds and 12-15 seas and she did fine since we were running with the wind. Now bear in mind with a flat bottom and 17' beam the last thing you will do is want to go broadside to the seas. That is the vulnerability because it will roll and scare you to death or beat you to death or capsize. I can't see blie water use of a dutch barge but it can do coastal use in rough weather if you behave. In summary these boats are very safe if handled correctly. Once motoring acros the Neuse river in NC. there was a 6' sea coming from the aft quarter. The speed of the seas and the speed of the barge were just so that the boat set up a harmonic and a gentle roll that slowly increased to 45 degrees! Slowing down stopped it. If I was bow or stern to the wind no problem. Even with strong seas off the bow quarter she justs pounds through. I would not hesitate to take the boat across the English Channel and many have. Trade between France and Holland and England had these vessels going to and fro all the time. Now the captains were not stupid. I doubt they went out with only 12" of freeeboard which was not unusual in a canal. Anyway that is enough for now. Greenseas knows what he is saying. Seaspark is a tad pessimistic.
I love my barge. (A man and his barge is a beautiful thing).

[emc2mm]

First, Pick a solution and have an adventure building or creating it. Any one have any plans/drawings or shape files for a dutch barge hull? or a late 1800's river scow with the sail like they used on the delta's and rivers on the west coast? They would sail to the ports full and turn around and sail back upstream.

[RCardozo]

I saw a scow in San Francisco martitime museum and thought it was built to do the exact same thing as a european sailing barge. Built out of wood but same use and general form.

[Wavewacker]

Be cheaper to build that 60' river boat by Phil Bolger, it can be dressed anyway you like it.

As to housing and building a boat (or buying one). Regardless of what the real estate market might be like now, years from now you'll seel the RE for more (if you can stay away from toxic dump sites). A Boat, any boat, unless it's a collectors item, is personal property and it depreciates just like a car or mobile home *depending on what it is) and one off boats built by owners will usually drop in price faster than your anchor.

So, as was said above, living in or on something is not free, better luck buy RE living there and selling it later on, it's always worked better than living in personal property.

But, I'd like to live on a boat for awhile too! :cool:

[luckyjr]

thinking out of the box is what made this country. the problem now is, they gave away the box. I am about 60% finished building my 29 foot weekender. I used steel studs for the walls and floors and it turned out great and weighs less than marine plywood. If you want to build your own, I could give you some pointers. I owned a couple of steel plants in my working life. Love ur city, good luck

[Wavewacker]

Luckyjr, Sounds like a good idea, just a few questions:

How did you bend those studs to fair the hull and form the bow?

How do you get them to butt up to be water tight, is it skin on frame?

On the interior what did you use for the walls to the frames and what does it weigh?

:D:D:D


HEY, SKIPPER G, GLAD TO SEE YA HEAR!

[CatBuilder]

I saw a canal boat in the states the other day and thought of this thread. Somebody has imported one. Pics to follow later.

[brian eiland]

First, Pick a solution and have an adventure building or creating it. Any one have any plans/drawings or shape files for a dutch barge hull? or a late 1800's river scow with the sail like they used on the delta's and rivers on the west coast? They would sail to the ports full and turn around and sail back upstream.

Look thru this extensive discussion and you will find pre-cut kits as well as plans:
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/boat-design/dutch-barge-long-distance-cruisers-11316.html

[luckyjr]

Luckyjr, Sounds like a good idea, just a few questions:

How did you bend those studs to fair the hull and form the bow?

How do you get them to butt up to be water tight, is it skin on frame?

On the interior what did you use for the walls to the frames and what does it weigh?

:D:D:D


HEY, SKIPPER G, GLAD TO SEE YA HEAR!

6" WIDE WEIGHS 1.49LBS/FT AND $1.00 A POUND. Comes 60' long
61865

If i were building, All light gauge galvanized steel. Pontoons and Structural