looking to build aluminum cat need help?

[korvello]

Hi everyone ; i'm looking to build aluminum catamaran and would apreciate any help,from leads of asian builders ,to best size /design for long term cruising/methods of construction/grade of aluminum and thickness,and is anyone building a aluminum cat in the u.s. I do have the basic plan of a 48 by 24 but will listen and apreciate any help and sugestions ..thank you..

[catmando2]

Try Silkline catamarans.

http://www.silkline-catamarans.com/


Looks a lot like a cat i'm building, a Simpson Slipstream 15

Pics of Silkline and a Simpson

Dave

[korvello]

thanks for reply. I already had checked Silkline and a couplle others and find some of their ideas great and of valuable help.are you building a aluminum Simpson Slipstream 15? out a kit or of plans ?where you buy your aluminum ,what grade,price?........any help greatly apreciated..thank you.

[catmando2]

thanks for reply. I already had checked Silkline and a couplle others and find some of their ideas great and of valuable help.are you building a aluminum Simpson Slipstream 15? out a kit or of plans ?where you buy your aluminum ,what grade,price?........any help greatly apreciated..thank you.

No mate, mines timber composite[look in gallery]

My point being is that Simpson never did a 15m alloy cat so Silkline may have massaged the drawings [nothing new in this]

Dave

[Frosty]

Theres a bloke in Perth --Auss called Gavin Meyer I think thats how you spell it. Big web site and ships flat packs all over the world. Try a google but you might have to play with the spelling. I think Im right in saying he can ship a whole boat in a box.

[catmando2]

Gavin Mairs is who you mean.

http://www.marinekits.com/

Dave

[korvello]

Thanks for the lead marinekits does gives a lot of info ,with some very nice options,the price of 130k just for a flat kit for a 44by 24 cat is high but an option they do give you some valuable tecnic info.... what you think of their 5mm bottom hull it looks border line to me ,i was thinking more on 7/8 mm for bottom and 5mm for the rest .... again my sincere thanks for taking the time to helping ,being new at this i'm all ears.

[catmando2]

I personally dont think ally sailing cat's come into there own untill you get over 55 feet as its just too bloody heavy.

you don't want to make it any heavier by adding more ally than speced.

the killer of multi's is weight, for $120k in a kit what about a composite boat

http://www.fusioncats.com/home.html

http://www.schionningdesigns.com.au/www/welcome.cfm

Dave

[korvello]

Thank you DAVE, i know that composite is the way to go for a lot of people but when safety and low maintenance is factured in, even if you can be a couple tons heavier aluminum is hard to beat i,ve heard one to many problems with composite ,and believe me i have no bias i just listen to both sides , problems with one and the other and it apears that for a long term cruising aluminum has the edje acording to the majority of veterans i've heard from.i greatly apreciate your leads and taking the time to help even if i,ve not decided how and where to buid i think that aluminum will be my first choice.....k

[catmando2]

Interesting....... I did my apprenticeship building 100'+ gin palaces out of alloy in the 80's and have mates that i did my time with still building alloy boat's for clients, yet we all build composite boat's for ourselves.

Infact, I believe you will find in real life that safety and maintenance swing's in composite's favour, unless of course you start making a habit if smacking into thing's.

And how many of these veterans are there sailing alloy cat's. An alloy mono is one thing, I would go alloy over composite, but in a cat, no contest.

Good luck in your new boat,

Dave

[korvello]

has you said interesting.!....and it does make you think....but you been an expert in this things and knowing both methods well i'm surprised you will go composite but what do i know.... but one thing is for sure i do intend to smack into things or expect they to smack into me ... ........................once again thank you for your insight and for taking the time to help ..sincerely k

[korvello]

HI : In my search to put my aluminum catamaran together my this is what i have so far ...i'll use 5086 aluminum 1/4 inch for hulls and strutural areas and 3/16 everywhere else ..for the frame 6061 but i'm still not decided on the sizes and shapes to use need help here..,as far as design i intend to design it myself and build it too, even if i have no experience with boat building i'm a builder/ designer having build several houses and buildings from wood to steel and concrete and i've build some machines,trailers,and even some car and bike racing....i know this is completely diferent that's why i'm trying to get as much info about all phases of construction as possible,and i,ve found that this forum offers the best advice i apreciate having read just about everything you guys have posted .......my basic design is already on paper ,and looks like this:50 by 25 overall,two paralell hulls with the outside wall being vertical with 4 feet at water line and the inside wall openning to 6 feet on top.the bottom still not sure of shappe from a wide v to a half circle ..40 feet will be basically straight and the front 10 feet will narrow to 4 inch ....the hulls will be divided in sealable compartments and i'm not sure if i,m going to mostlly foam fill them as i don,t intend to use them but for tanks ,motors,storage......the house will go to the edjes to gain strutural integrity building it as an uncaped piramydand have 2 bedrooms ,kitchen ,bath, open area and pilot house ..the pilot house will permitt complete navigation from the inside ....windows will be all some size to easy repair and maintenance ,and door and windows will be build burglar resistant and the pilot house will be bullet proof/resistant as well....i intend to have enough motors to do 15 to 20 knotts under power and still have not decided what sistem to use ..any sugestions?..still researching rudder and dagger boards...still haven't got to mast ,sails, and navigation i intend to carry either a pw or a small fast boat in between hulls instead of a dinghy....it apears that i will buid in the u.s. even if asia is cheaper but materials and general safety still suspicious......please any help apreciated.....and if anyone is buiding aluminum in the u.s please drop me a line ..thank you ...Korvello

[mungral]

drop these guys an e-mail http://www.revolutiondesign.com.au/
the guys that run this place are all sailors and i'm sure they could help with construction.

[Bob Mott]

Try Silkline catamarans.

http://www.silkline-catamarans.com/


Looks a lot like a cat i'm building, a Simpson Slipstream 15

Pics of Silkline and a Simpson

Dave

Hello Dave

I am the co-designer of the Sikline 510 which has nothing in common with the Simpson cat other than they are both cats. We havent massaged the design to develop the Silkline cats. I have seen the Simpsons but have never looked at a set of plans and have never been aboard a Simpson Slipstream. You are more than welcome to come over to Thailand and view our cats in person to see for yourself.

The Slipstream I saw was anchored in Southport. Only saw it from a distance from the shore.

We are presently well along the line designing a 65 foot Silkline and will be introducing power versions all in alloy.

Cheers

Bob Mott

[Bob Mott]

Hello Korvello,

Please note I am the co-designer of the Silkline 510 cat and it is not a massaged Simpson. We have also developed CAD kits for the 510 which are available with construction plans if you are interested. I am not at all familiar with the Simpson design but have seen Slipstreams from a distance. Our underwater profiles would be nothing like the Simpson but that is a guess as I havent seen the Simpsons plans or seen it out of the water. We are due to launch a completed 510 early April and a second soon after. We launch cat 3 at sail away stage this coming weekend and begin cats 4 and 5 within the next 4 weeks. All are presold. We are developing a 65 version also in CAD.

Regards

Bob

thanks for reply. I already had checked Silkline and a couplle others and find some of their ideas great and of valuable help.are you building a aluminum Simpson Slipstream 15? out a kit or of plans ?where you buy your aluminum ,what grade,price?........any help greatly apreciated..thank you.

[Bob Mott]

Hello Korvello,

Forget to add we are moving to a mark 2 version from cat 5 onwards. Many improvments including radiused hull to deck and other.

Bob

thanks for reply. I already had checked Silkline and a couplle others and find some of their ideas great and of valuable help.are you building a aluminum Simpson Slipstream 15? out a kit or of plans ?where you buy your aluminum ,what grade,price?........any help greatly apreciated..thank you.

[Bob Mott]

Hello Dave,

Our Silkline 510 cats 50 foot 6 inches come in at 8750KG roughly with a coastal payload of gear aboard. They are lighter than any production tupperware cat but heavier than composite and they are faster than most cats on the water. We raced a older version at this years Kings Cup regatta Thailand. In our division was a Chicogan 52 composite cat that was supposed to weight 12,000 + kg so much for light cats - our cat was alloy - see Chameleon on www.far-away.net and weighed 8,000. She is a charter cat up here. 5 line honour wins and never beaten by the " composite cat even though the composite cats sails we much bigger and it was very light conditions. The weigth issue isnt a issue any more. Our cats are light and fast and go to windward very well and tack like monos.

And they are much tougher than a Schionnings composite cat. cant say alot about the Fusion which are also made here in Thailand under contract to a Thailand company.

We sell CAD kits as well for the 510.

Over and out

Bob

KGI personally dont think ally sailing cat's come into there own untill you get over 55 feet as its just too bloody heavy.

you don't want to make it any heavier by adding more ally than speced.

the killer of multi's is weight, for $120k in a kit what about a composite boat

http://www.fusioncats.com/home.html

http://www.schionningdesigns.com.au/www/welcome.cfm

Dave

[Bob Mott]

Hold on Korvello,

I along with my partner have 25 plus years experience in the marine industry with many sea miles on our cats and others and monos - Sydney to Hobart races, deliveries from Florida to Australia - Thailand -Gibraltar - many trips Australia to Thailand and more plus lots of building experience in composite, strip plank, ply - and now alloy for some years. We have just project managed a 52 foot Schionnings Alaskan Power cat build in Thailand the first of this design to be built. Have 5 Alloy Silklines at various stages.
We can provide a alloy kit and back up so you end up with a decent cat.

Appart from all the structural requirements it is a sailing cat and needs to sail well and go to windward well. Dont build a brick!!!

All our alloy is certified and comes from reputable supliers mainly Australian and French mills. All the equipement used is top quality such as Yanmar, Allyacht Spars Australia, UK Halsey Sails Australia, Anderson stainless steel winches, moonlight / Lewmar / Gebo hatches, Navman electronics, Hydrive steering Australia, Aquapro RIBs.

All our welders are certified and we are soon to go CE standards. Even now we are just short on Lloyds SSV3 standards. Our plans are Naval Architect checked by British Naval Architects.

Bob


HI : In my search to put my aluminum catamaran together my this is what i have so far ...i'll use 5086 aluminum 1/4 inch for hulls and strutural areas and 3/16 everywhere else ..for the frame 6061 but i'm still not decided on the sizes and shapes to use need help here..,as far as design i intend to design it myself and build it too, even if i have no experience with boat building i'm a builder/ designer having build several houses and buildings from wood to steel and concrete and i've build some machines,trailers,and even some car and bike racing....i know this is completely diferent that's why i'm trying to get as much info about all phases of construction as possible,and i,ve found that this forum offers the best advice i apreciate having read just about everything you guys have posted .......my basic design is already on paper ,and looks like this:50 by 25 overall,two paralell hulls with the outside wall being vertical with 4 feet at water line and the inside wall openning to 6 feet on top.the bottom still not sure of shappe from a wide v to a half circle ..40 feet will be basically straight and the front 10 feet will narrow to 4 inch ....the hulls will be divided in sealable compartments and i'm not sure if i,m going to mostlly foam fill them as i don,t intend to use them but for tanks ,motors,storage......the house will go to the edjes to gain strutural integrity building it as an uncaped piramydand have 2 bedrooms ,kitchen ,bath, open area and pilot house ..the pilot house will permitt complete navigation from the inside ....windows will be all some size to easy repair and maintenance ,and door and windows will be build burglar resistant and the pilot house will be bullet proof/resistant as well....i intend to have enough motors to do 15 to 20 knotts under power and still have not decided what sistem to use ..any sugestions?..still researching rudder and dagger boards...still haven't got to mast ,sails, and navigation i intend to carry either a pw or a small fast boat in between hulls instead of a dinghy....it apears that i will buid in the u.s. even if asia is cheaper but materials and general safety still suspicious......please any help apreciated.....and if anyone is buiding aluminum in the u.s please drop me a line ..thank you ...Korvello

[Bob Mott]

Hello Dave,

Forgot to add ours are 15.4 metres not 15M. We are trimming a little of the aft so they fit under 50 foot for Panama prices which have a huge leap in cost over 50 foot. Plus we are looking at international marina charges and working designs to fit.

I bet your Simpson never designer never thought of that.

On the massage issue - come to Thailand they give good massages. We at Silkline are not very good at massage.

We are not blinker visioned either and have just finished a 52 foot Schionnings Alaskan power cat project the first to be built of the design.

Yet we are pro alloy ahead of other materials. There is a place for every personal choice in materials whether all are correct in their choice is another matter.

CU

Bob

No mate, mines timber composite[look in gallery]

My point being is that Simpson never did a 15m alloy cat so Silkline may have massaged the drawings [nothing new in this]

Dave

[frankc]

hi ,new to this forum,
but JUST had to comment on this topic !!

re SLIPSTREAM TO SILKLINE COMPARISON,
I owned the Slipstream in the photo from 1995 until 2000 and can tell you the Roger Simpson 17 year old design is absoulutly NOTING like the new Silkline 510 as I am also a co-designer and builder of the 510 catamaran.
I welcome any questions re comparisons !!
re the discussion ALLOY/COMPOSITE
I have built both and the previous guy was correct in stating that alloy is at a weight disadvantage below 47 ft ,however this very much depends on design of hull and thickness of plate used ,
as for using 5 mm plate on a 15 mtr cat ,this is way above Lloyds SSV3 specifications and that also depends on the frame/bulkhead spacing ,
there are french catamaran builders doing this in 6mm rolled with virtually no frames ,PERSONALLY I dont like this method and prefer to have a frame spacing of no less than 1000mm.
I have also built and sailed a Schioning Waterline 1480 for 5 years and also just completed the building of an Schioning Alaskan 52 power cat here in Thailand that is being fitted out now,both of these cats where in balsa core as was the Slipstream IN THE PHOTO,
After owning and building numerous composite balsa and cedar cats I must admit I am definatly a confirmed ALLOY FAN FOR CATS OF 47 FT AND ABOVE.
There are numerous reasons however the biggest advantage above 50ft is in fact the weight ,
sure you can build a 50 ft composite cat approximatly 10 to 15% lighter but just look at the cost !! and then check the structual status of the craft after 5 years of use !!
I HAVE !!

no comparison!!

however this is only my opinion and from my experience I believe I have had enough exposure to both materials in this topic and therefore can comment.

happy sailing

[rudabb]

hi ,new to this forum,
but JUST had to comment on this topic !!

re SLIPSTREAM TO SILKLINE COMPARISON,
I owned the Slipstream in the photo from 1995 until 2000 and can tell you the Roger Simpson 17 year old design is absoulutly NOTING like the new Silkline 510 as I am also a co-designer and builder of the 510 catamaran.
I welcome any questions re comparisons !!
re the discussion ALLOY/COMPOSITE
I have built both and the previous guy was correct in stating that alloy is at a weight disadvantage below 47 ft ,however this very much depends on design of hull and thickness of plate used ,
as for using 5 mm plate on a 15 mtr cat ,this is way above Lloyds SSV3 specifications and that also depends on the frame/bulkhead spacing ,
there are french catamaran builders doing this in 6mm rolled with virtually no frames ,PERSONALLY I dont like this method and prefer to have a frame spacing of no less than 1000mm.
I have also built and sailed a Schioning Waterline 1480 for 5 years and also just completed the building of an Schioning Alaskan 52 power cat here in Thailand that is being fitted out now,both of these cats where in balsa core as was the Slipstream IN THE PHOTO,
After owning and building numerous composite balsa and cedar cats I must admit I am definatly a confirmed ALLOY FAN FOR CATS OF 47 FT AND ABOVE.
There are numerous reasons however the biggest advantage above 50ft is in fact the weight ,
sure you can build a 50 ft composite cat approximatly 10 to 15% lighter but just look at the cost !! and then check the structual status of the craft after 5 years of use !!
I HAVE !!

no comparison!!

however this is only my opinion and from my experience I believe I have had enough exposure to both materials in this topic and therefore can comment.

happy sailing

Franc,

This is strange what a coincidence...I am in contact with schionning thinking of buying 3 Alaskan 52 and was thinking of going to thailand in next couple of weeks to see the boat being built at Serenity...I was wondering if you had a PM or a phone number so I could contact you..I have so many questions to ask....and a serious decision to make soon..are you with schionning or are you building on behalf of the owner? you can email me at rudabb@gmail.com

Thanks

Rudy

[flguerre]

Dear Bob,
I am currently in Thailand. Is it possible to contact you to discuss about a 20 meters aluminium cat project.
Best regards

Florian: flguerre@yahoo.fr

[rwatson]

All our alloy is certified and comes from reputable supliers mainly Australian and French mills.

Hi Bob

Just a quick question, I was understanding that there are no Australian mills producing marine alloy.

Who still does in Australia ?

Cheers

Ray

[Barry Parkinson]

Bob,

If you get this, I need info on Silkline 510 HULL 4 for sale at $260,000, do you have any info??????????

Tel 037641744

e-mail bazcatana@yahoo,co.uk

Regards

Barry Parkinson - Thailand