Various Questions

[KI4NCW]

I am about to begin building a Clark Craft 22' Houseboat (Haven Plan). I want to build it and go from Fl to Freeport Bahamas. Do i need any type of Captains license to do this? Next... After i build the bottom of the boat how do you guys flip them over?

Thanks
Bill

[longliner45]

as long as it is just you , and not for hire you dont need a license,,,,usually you build the bottom of the boat upside down first,also I would research the aspect of going offshore in a houseboat,,personally dont know of any ocean going houseboats,,but then again I dont know all about everything.... longliner

[LP]

I don't think it's the best idea. That's not to say that it can't be done. My understanding is that the gulfsteam can be quite rough under certain conditions. A north wind will really stack the waves up because it's blowing against the current.

I personnally haven't done it. I've only read about it.

[timgoz]

If your intentions are to live at Freeport, you would be better off getting the boat shipped over. The Gulfstream is no place for that type of boat.

If you desire to go for the voyages sake, find a design that is suitable for offshore work. There are many good steel boats in the 24-28 ft. range that would work well.

No license is required if any passengers aboard do not pay in any way. That does not mean alot of knowledge and experience are not reqiuered. They most definetly are!

Take care.

TGoz

[KI4NCW]

Well I appreciate the help. I have plenty of experience at-sea i just have not built a boat before. No one has still answered about how to turn the boat over? As far as the crossing goes, people cross all the time in pocket yachts 14' - 18'. However; i do tend to agree with all of you that i can probably find plans for a much more seaworthy vessel.

[timgoz]

K,

The safest way to turn a larger boat upright is buy hiring a crane & operator. If you can find someone experienced in working with boat hulls, so much the better.

Some people have used appropriate leverage points and block & tackle arrangements to turn hulls. Restraining the boat from getting away from you once the tipping point is reached is critical.

Building upright is usually an option. One advantage is that the boat & any shelter covering it need not be moved.

Small boats can do remarkable things, though not always prudent. When I was a child I lived close to Robert Manry. My mother was behind Mrs. Manry in the license plate line while Mr. Manry was crossing the Atlantic in a 13.5 ft. Old Town sailboat. He had added a cubby cabin. The cabin was so small he slept curled up in the fetal position. He wrote a book, "Tinkerbelle" the boats name, about his voyage.

The main concern with the 22 footer you spoke of is design, not length. Every houseboat I ever saw had large expanses of windows. Ultimate stability would also worry me.

Welcome to the Forum.

Take care.

TGoz

[marshmat]

Bill,
The Clark Craft houseboats ( http://www.clarkcraft.com/cgi-local/shop.pl?type=item&categ=010&item=933301452&cart_id=3a95c250f5f96ebc5d470146a1c177a6 ) are designed for inland lakes and calm weather. I think 3-foot seas would be about the limit that they'd be comfortable in, anything bigger will come over the bow and into the cabin. The windows are way too large for an offshore boat, they'll break if you get hit broadside by a wave. Stability will probably be gone around sixty or seventy degrees, again not a good thing offshore where you typically want the boat to right itself from 100 degrees or more. It's not a boat I would want to see offshore, or even on coastal passages- these are calm-water boats.
Building upright might be a good option in the size range you're considering.
There are plenty of offshore-capable, seaworthy vessels in that size range, which can be home-built.
Turning over if built inverted, would be easiest with a crane- another option is to buy a round of pizza for your high school football team in exchange for flipping it- or (probably hardest) use A-frames and a lot of steadying ropes.

[longliner45]

sailboats are quite roomy,,,,they ride good ,,,,,and are really seaworthy,if you get the right design,,could this be an option for you? longliner

[SamSam]

No one has still answered about how to turn the boat over?

Here's one way. I would think Clark Craft would have some sort of idea on how to turn their boat over.?. Sam

[KI4NCW]

Again thanks for the feedback. Well as far as the sailboat idea goes I'm not an experienced sailor so that is out. My experience lies in powerboats (My fathers) and years aboard Navy ships hahahha. So any links to a plan for a seaworthy power boat (Steel Fab, I am a stick welder) with an outboard engine installation would be appreciated. Something 24' or less would be feasible to do now. So lead on.....

[longliner45]

dont tell anyone ,,but I am not a sailor either . I was a commercial fisherman,,,,,,,,,,who is building a sailboat....read a few books and jump in ,,how did all these other people learn to sail?...longliner

[timgoz]

Bruce Roberts "Waverunners" start at 22ft. and are of steel construction.

His basic plans show an inboard engine. This could probably be altered by him to I/O's. Don't know about outboards.

He is good about answering E-mail ?'s. Or at least he used to be.

Longliner is correct, IMHO, to suggest a sailboat. A good sail vessel is very seaworthy, more so than most powerboats of a similar size range. With their aux. diesels they can still motor efficiently when desired or required to. Thier sails can have a stabilizing effect while motoring.

A traditional, full-keeled. deep draft sailing vessel with a moderate to wide beam, generally has alot of room below-decks for it's size.

TGoz

[KI4NCW]

Ok well here is my decision to rectify my insanity. I am going to build this boat:

http://www.hartley-boats.com/voyager.html

Soon as i receive the plans i'll keep you posted on progress. Thanks for all the feedback.

[longliner45]

Im not finding the clark craft ,,but if it is like the other 22 ftrs ,it seems to be a cabin cruiser,whole different story than a house boat,,,,,,,longliner

[KI4NCW]

yes the clark was a houseboat. here is the link:

http://www.clarkcraft.com/cgi-local/shop.pl?type=item&categ=010&item=933301452&cart_id=367be65bfdd12389f0efa5b8bf3dbf2a

The hartley is a ocean type cruiser. Be much safer.

[KI4NCW]

Ok Now i have what is probably a stupid question? How do i check the hull for leaks? Fill it up with water?

[KI4NCW]

yes to check for leaks as its built.

[rayk]

http://www.hartley-boats.com/images/voyager2.jpg
Voyager 20
20' (6.1m) 'deep V' cruiser for outboard motors.
For construction in plywood or as a mould for grp/frp.
Beam 7'11". Engines 60 to 300hp.

If you intend to build this boat, you are going to need a little more faith in your abilities.
The designer, design, construction technique, and materials have been proven over many, many years.

:!: This boat is a big project and a lot of money.
Maybe you should consider buying a second hand boat to start with, and getting a bit of experience. Please take a Coastgaurd course before casting off.
If you really must build something, try a very small dinghy, and launch it in a knee deep pond.

[KI4NCW]

I think u missed my point. I have been a welder for many years and have seen welds that were perfect to the eye that leaked.

[Poida]

KI
I work for a sheet metal company and I am fairly sure they use something like kerosene sprayed on the joints for testing. As it is lighter than water it penetrates easier and will pick up leaks that water will not as the surface tension of water will prevent it penetrating the hole.

Also as I understand it does not create a problem when you grind out and reweld, water would create steam so you would have to spend time drying it out before rewelding it, kero would evaporate easier.

It is not a stupid question because as you said a weld that looks good can leak, however most companies doing that sort of work would rely on the paint job to seal any holes.

People who say they don't do crap work probably don't test it.

[SamSam]

Well, I don't think you should rely on paint to seal the leaks. To fill the boat with water could be a disaster. They are designed to be full of air and sit in water, not to be full of water sitting in air. A friend had a small aluminum boat on a trailer and wanted to put some water in it to keep it from blowing away in a hurricane. He stuck the hose in it and forgot, came back to find his boat bent out of shape, the trailer axle and frame bent, springs broke. Just do good work, put the boat in the water before all the interior stuff blocks access, pull the boat and fix any leaks. Sam

[timgoz]

K,

The Voyager 20 is not a steel design. My apologies if you already realized that.

TGoz

[rayk]

People who say they don't do crap work probably don't test it.
Dead right Poida ;)
If unfamiliar with a new building technique or materials, practise on test pieces, then a small cheap project next.
Confidence, skill, and experience gained will eliminate the need for a testing regime, when you start building The Big One.
In a nutshell, 'test' something cheap and small.

All construction techniques break down into basic steps that follow one after the other, to produce a leak proof join.
Practise it over and over with scrap material or small projects until it is second nature.
Then build the boat of your dreams :)

[KI4NCW]

I know the voyager 20 is not a steel design. Hartley is sending me the changes to the plans to build with steel. As far as the welding goes it wont be a problem, I have been a certified welder for years, have welded high pressure pipe and vessels. I just thought testing may have been one of the steps to follow.

[george allard]

I checked the Hartley plans and it seems that you could purchase a used aluminum or glass boat, ready to go, for less then the cost of building the Hartley.

[KI4NCW]

Probably could. What would the challenge and reward be in that?

[Gilbert]

Someone can correct me if I am wrong but no one has mentioned this. It is standard practice of the steel boat builders I know to backgouge their plate welds and run another bead. I realize this may not completely eliminate the possibility of a leak but it should come pretty close. I also realize the plate for a 20 foot steel boat will be very light; perhaps so light that backgouging might be troublesome.

[Poida]

And I am probably more wrong in the fact that a 20ft boat is too small for steel construction in that the minimum steel thickness you need for suitable welding is 3mm 1/8" making a 20 foot boat too heavy for it's size.

[george allard]

To turn the boat over, lower one side to the ground. Any 5 ton crane, with a good operator, could hook to the raised side and turn it up. Let it rest on one side and rehook to both sides to level it for the stands. It works for us all the time.

[KI4NCW]

Well I finally got my plans for the 20' Voyager. Will begin the Jig tomorrow, I will show pictures as the building progresses. Ribs & Frame are to be 2" X 1/4" flat bar and the hull plated with 3MM steel. I'll keep yall posted.

[alaskatrawler]

When I built Balto I first layed up the hull plating butting the joints together . When this was done and all hull plating in place we used an air arc to V groove the plate almost to its total thickness
Once this was done we made a root pass welding uphand with Low High. Then followed up with two more passes until the joint was filled. On each pass we never stopped in the same place always overlapped the welds. We did this alternating from side to side. The plate thickness we used was 1/4" hull plate and 3/16 on the decks and house.

Dan