Lateen sails

[velelatine]

A lateen (from a la trina, meaning triangular) is a triangular sail set on a long yardarm mounted at an angle on the mast, and running in a fore-and-aft direction. Originally found on sailing ships, the lateen is used today in a slightly different form on small boats like the highly popular Sunfish.

All about the Lateen Sails in Italy: Vele Latine (http://www.velelatine.it)

http://www.verificheimpianti.com/public/up/lateensails.jpg

[sharpii2]

Beautiful pictures, veleletine.

I agree with Phil Bolger that the lateen sail has unexplored possibillities.

On my first sail boat design, I drew a 45-90 degree one, so the boat could have a very short mast and would be easy to set up on a beach. Being that the boom and yard were connected, Sunfish style, there was no chance of the long yard getting out of control as the sail was lowered or raised.

It is my belief that some modernised version of both the latteen and the balanced lug can both be made into good off shore sails.

Thanks again for the pictures.

Bob

[Doug Lord]

Garry Hoyt has come up with a new boat that he hopes will fit in between an Optimist and a Laser.
He calls it the H10 and it is all carbon/epoxy. After a lot of research he has settled on a Lateen rig....

[Guillermo]

Another nice picture (From Vele Latine's site). :)

[Guillermo]

And also this one from the Canary islands
http://www.boteminerva.net/INDEX11.HTM

[mcm]

OK, the mediterranean lateen.

Beautiful, but isn't the tall rig in Guillermo's last photo just as expensive as a mast-head bermuda-rig.

Moreover, in Velelatine's first photo, the sail is set on a forward raked mast, while in Guillermo's last photo, the sail is set on a tall straight-up perpendicular mast.

Why the difference? What's the advantages of one over the other?

Do they sail just as well on either tack?

And what about the Oceanic South-Sea Lateen (crab-claw)?

And has ANYBODY had any experience with this UNSTAYED south-sea rig on any hull other than a Proa?

[velelatine]

Another nice picture. :cool:

http://www.verificheimpianti.com/public/up/aixiacn05.JPG

[Guillermo]

I would love to watch a match race among one of your type of boats and the Canary islands one. They seem to be of about the same size.
Cheers.

[velelatine]

Nice idea :D

[Guillermo]

Moreover, in Velelatine's first photo, the sail is set on a forward raked mast, while in Guillermo's last photo, the sail is set on a tall straight-up perpendicular mast.
Why the difference? What's the advantages of one over the other?
Depends on what length of the top part of the perch you want unsupported. You play with rake and height of the mast. Canary boats have a long and vertical mast, giving the sail a higher aspect ratio and making the unsupported end quite short, to allow for better characteristics when beating to winward

Do they sail just as well on either tack?
For the Canary boats yes, because they swing the sail from one side to the other by the back of the mast when tacking. This maneouvre is easier also because of the vertical mast and shorter top of the perch. See attached photos. In other types of boats this maneouvre is not done and so you have a 'good' and a 'bad' side

[mcm]

Thanks alot Guillermo,

Those were great explanations.

I've got another question you might be able to answer for me:

How does one go about reefing a lateen sail?

[velelatine]

The jib makes to have a great advantages :D

My boat.
http://www.verificheimpianti.com/velelatine/upload/caterina1.jpg

[Guillermo]

Very nice boat, Velelatine! Congratulations!
(By the way, may I know your name? Just not to call you velelatine)
As per your photo you are sailing with the sail on the winward side of the mast, let's call it the 'wrong' side. Is it possible to swing the sail when changing wind side? If so, how do you swing the sail: turning the boat with the wind by the bow (tacking) or by the stern (wearing)?

As far as I know jibs are a relatively modern addition to lateen rigs (If I'm not wrong, jibs were invented by the dutchs by the end of the XVI beginning of the XVII centuries). In my opinion jibs are used with lateen rigs to increase the sail area without raising the center of effort, so making boats more manegeable with shorter crews. The Canary boats go the other way round, this is, bringing the lateen rig to its limits by rising its height, because those are boats conceived only for racing. Jibs probably also helps to steady the flow in the back of a 'wronged' sided lateen sail, so increasing its efficiency (I'm not an expert in lateen rigs at all. Probably you, Velelatine, may be of more help here)

mcm,
(May I know your name also?)
Lateen sails were not reefed but substituted by an storm sail in the ancient times. Later, reefing bands were added either parallel to the yard or to the foot, as in bermudan sails.
I attach some images of lateen sails to exemplify what I'm saying. Two of them show lateen rigged boats being sailed the 'wrong' side (We call it "navegar a la mala" in Spain), a third shows the reefing bands in a three masted 'Balancelle', and the fourth shows a 'Muleta', the most bizarre lateen rig I know.

Cheers

[Guillermo]

You may find of interest these pages about the Nabateans, an Arab tribe said to be the first ones to traded with India by sea. They sailed the Med, the Red Sea and the Indic Ocean (And maybe even all the way up to China), using lateen rigged boats.
http://nabataea.net/sailing.html
(You can find there a huge bibliography regarding lateen rigs)

Cheers

[velelatine]

My name's Enrico.

Here some explanations (translate with the aid of Babel Fish :D )

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=it_en&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.velalatina.it%2F

[Guillermo]

Hi, Enrico!
Interesting site.
Very funny the 'Itanglish' translation!
Cheers!

[Guillermo]

Here a better drawing of the Portuguese "Muleta do Seixal" (1st image) and another one from its close cousin the "Bote da Arte da Tarantanha" (2nd image). Both were used only in Barreiro, Seixal and Cascais, all three villages close to Lisbon. They were used in side trawl fishing, using a net called "tarantanha".
The third one is also a muleta but only used in Cascais (Muleta de Arrastro).
Look at the complexity of those rigs.
Any of you interested in knowing more about traditional portuguese boats, visit:
http://www.ancruzeiros.pt/ancbtradicionais.html
Cheers

[velelatine]

Video: Lateen Sail National Championship 2004 :D

Video (http://www.verificheimpianti.com/velelatine/video/cn2004.wmv) (235 mb)

[sharpii2]

Here a better drawing of the Portuguese "Muleta do Seixal" (1st image) and another one from its close cousin the "Bote da Arte da Tarantanha" (2nd image). Both were used only in Barreiro, Seixal and Cascais, all three villages close to Lisbon. They were used in side trawl fishing, using a net called "tarantanha".
The third one is also a muleta but only used in Cascais (Muleta de Arrastro).
Look at the complexity of those rigs.
Any of you interested in knowing more about traditional portuguese boats, visit:
http://www.ancruzeiros.pt/ancbtradicionais.html
Cheers

Are you saying the thing was sailed sideways with the nets down?

Bob

[Vega]

yes, that's the reason for such a sail area.

[Guillermo]

Video: Lateen Sail National Championship 2004 :D
Beautiful!

[velelatine]

Beautiful!

Tnx Guillermo ;)

[CapKos]

A picture of Neptune on Geneva Lake.

http://etat.geneve.ch/dt/site/protection-nature/master-content.jsp?componentId=kmelia274&pubId=3976&nodeId=2047

It is interesting why lateen sails could not be found today on cruising boats. Is it possible to use them on say 32 ft cruising boat?
CapKos

[sharpii2]

A picture of Neptune on Geneva Lake.
It is interesting why lateen sails could not be found today on cruising boats. Is it possible to use them on say 32 ft cruising boat?
CapKos

Certainly. But it may not be practical (as opossed to using other rigs)

The big problem is that your 32 ft boat is going to need from 400 to 500 sft or more of sail area. Since, with the classic lateen sail, the yard is on the longest side of a right triangle, the yard has to be very long (42.5 ft for a 450 sft rig).

This long yard now is suspended from a mast and has to be able to swing about it suspension point as well as go up and down. This can make it very difficult to control and, because of its great size, dangerous.

There are, however, ways of getting around this problem.

One is to add a boom to the rig. By controlling the swing of the boom, you are also controlling the swing of the yard as well.

Once a boom is added, the length of the yard can be shortened and the foot of the sail can be lengthened. Now the yard is not only under much better control, but is shorter (31 ft as to 42.5 ft) and lighter as well.

Not only that, but the yard can now be pitched much more verically, because it now mostly acounts for just one dimension (the hieght) of the sail area, not two (the hieght and width). This is the familliar 'Sunfish(r)' rig, an absolutely wonderful beginner rig.

Now your major problem is reefing.

Every time you take out a pie shaped section out of the sail, you change the pitch of the yard and the boom. To fix this, you need a new hoisting/swing point on either the mast or the boom. Imagine having to do this in squally weather with your boat's side to the sea.

A quick and dirty solution to this problem ios to add a rectangular section of sail between the boom and the yard. This makes it a settee sail. By reefing just that rectangular section, you can maintain the old pitch of the yard and boom.

I am considering such a rig myself. It will have a vertical leech, a yard set at 45 deg., and a rectangular section that has half the hieght of the triangular section. This way, the boom and yard are kept short and half the sail area is easily reefable.

For our hypothetical 32 footer, that would mean a 30 ft yard and a 21.5 ft boom. This may be workable.

Bob

[CapKos]

Hi Bob,
Thanks for the nice explanation. I suppose that the extreme exploration of this idea is the gaff rig. I like lateen sail because of the lower working point, which help shallow draft. It is possible also to lighten the boat to some extend and have more cargo. I figured a possible sail plan with 11.3 m yard (37 ft) plus a jib. The effective area is 48.75 sqm (524 sqft). This boat will have CE of about 4 ft lower then similar Bermudian rigged boat. Additionally the sailing area could be increased with topsail with about 8sqm, (86 sqft). 37 ft for the yard is a lot, but I suppose that with the new materials is possible to make a lighter and stronger yard, then 500 years ago.

I would like any input on this sketch.

CapKos

[CapKos]

Oups, here is the sketch

[sharpii2]

Hi Bob,
Thanks for the nice explanation. I suppose that the extreme exploration of this idea is the gaff rig. I like lateen sail because of the lower working point, which help shallow draft. It is possible also to lighten the boat to some extend and have more cargo. I figured a possible sail plan with 11.3 m yard (37 ft) plus a jib. The effective area is 48.75 sqm (524 sqft). This boat will have CE of about 4 ft lower then similar Bermudian rigged boat. Additionally the sailing area could be increased with topsail with about 8sqm, (86 sqft). 37 ft for the yard is a lot, but I suppose that with the new materials is possible to make a lighter and stronger yard, then 500 years ago.

I would like any input on this sketch.

CapKos

I like your sketch.

There are, however, two problems that I can see.

1.) Your Center of Effort is drawn way forward of where it most likely will end up. Loose footed jibs tend to have thier Center of Efforts further aft than boom footed sails. Since it appears that your lateen sail is loose footed as well, There would be even more reasons to move the estimated Center of effort aft.

2.) Your jib seems to be a bit large. In order for it to stand well, shrouds and stays will most likely be needed to maintain the luff tension. Having these will most likely make sheeting and handling the 37 ft yard interesting.

I do agree that a higher tech yard can probably be built that is lighter than what has traditionaly been used. One must keep in mind, however, that the ancients were very well aware of the weight problem themselves and took care to use the lightest wood available. I wouldn't bet on reducing its weight by more than 50%. And spending up to 50% of the cost of the boat doing it.

From looking at your sketch, I am reminded of a gaff cutter. Imagine cutting the long yard in two, putting jaws on the aft end and making it into a long gaff (Joshua Slocum's famous Spray had a gaff of similar length), then puting a short jib where the forward part of the lateen used to be. Doing this will allow the rig to keep its low Center of effort, make the boat much more 'user friendly' and, perhaps, more suitable for its intended purpose.

This design becomes almost a history lesson on probably how and why the lateen sail was replaced with the gaff rig.

Other than that, I'd move the lateen forward, make the jib smaller, and buy a good (but not neccessarily powerful) engine for light air work. Due to handling issues with a lateen sail (the classical version), I would be tempted to keep the sail area on the short side. Especially if I had to go with a small crew.

Bob

[CapKos]

You are right on both points. The center of effort is verry aft and the latten sail didn’t help. In the positive side a costal cruiser with reliable engine is probably not so bad, since most of the sailors on Mediterranean actually motoring most of the time. BTW aren’t old pirates on Mediterranean mostly rowing? By now standards this could be named motor-sailing. For offshore work however the more robust gaff rig is better.

All the best,
CapKos

[sharpii2]

You are right on both points. The center of effort is verry aft and the latten sail didn’t help. In the positive side a costal cruiser with reliable engine is probably not so bad, since most of the sailors on Mediterranean actually motoring most of the time. BTW aren’t old pirates on Mediterranean mostly rowing? By now standards this could be named motor-sailing. For offshore work however the more robust gaff rig is better.

All the best,
CapKos

Just for your entertainment, I decided to scan some drawins of mine to show my idea of what a modern boomed lateen and boomed setee might look like. Both are drawn to traditional proportions except that the setee is coming close to being a ballaned lug because of the amount of sail under the triangle.

One of the bigest advantages of this type of rig is that the mast can be so short that it can be made much stronger than usual. The long yard may break, but it may be brought down to the deck to be repaired much easier than a broken mast can be.

One option, in your case, that I failed to mention, is stepping a long but light top mast above the original rig that can fly a relatively large topsail for light air work. If this mast is damaged or destroyed the boat will not be disabled.

So here's my pics.

Enjoy.

Bob

[CapKos]

Hi Bob,
Thanks for the sketches. I guess that the boat with the setee will be a fine cruiser. How big is this boat? An advantage of shorter mast is that it can go down bridges. Air clearness less then 7 m will be able to sail most of European internal waters, which is a big fun. I suppose that such a boat will fit 90% of the sailing programs, now days. It is a pity that it is not very common :confused:.

All the best,
CapKos

[CapKos]

I forgot to ask: is the mast really out of the centerline, like in the sketch?
CapKos

[miloman]

here is a question that might be interesting. What about a two mast situation where the lateen is hung between the masts. This would illiminate a good and bad side. It looked like this was how some of the older boat sketches from earlier in the tread were rigged. The two masts wound certainly add weight, complexity, and airresistence up top, and might have an effect on off the wind performance, does this make any sense?

Love to here your opinions.

[sharpii2]

here is a question that might be interesting. What about a two mast situation where the lateen is hung between the masts. This would illiminate a good and bad side. It looked like this was how some of the older boat sketches from earlier in the tread were rigged. The two masts wound certainly add weight, complexity, and airresistence up top, and might have an effect on off the wind performance, does this make any sense?

Love to here your opinions.

I presume you mean with the masts side by side.

I have thought of this idea. It occured to me that if you had the two masts come together at the top, some distance above the yard, you would have an 'A' frame set up which could have several advantages over a single mast. Chief amongst them would be the possibility of having it deck stepped with only two shrouds on each side holding it up. Because of the short mast needed for a lateen rig, it would be much easier to rase and lower than a conventional mast. And that would be its major advantage.

I don't think, however, that such a mast would be all that effective in keeping the sail off it in anthing lower than a close reach unless the boat in question is very wide (like a catamaran). But, still, I think it should be tried. My only worry is that we will end up with two bad tacks instead of just one.

The 'A' frame mast, to work, must have a spreader between its two legs right above the hoisting block to keep it centered. The load of this block must be transfered directly to the apex of this 'A' frame, so that all of its loads are in (mostly) compression rather than bending.

This same thing could be accomplished with two parallel masts with a sturdy cross piece on top, joinging them together. The hoisting block in this case could hang from between two cables, each leading to the top of a mast, which form a 90 deg. 'V', pointing downward. This arrangement could be used on narrower boats, but the two masts, in this case, must be considered 'free standing' and be designed accordingly. It would be very difficult, indeed, to hold this arrangement up with stays or shrouds. I have sketched such a rig for one of my design concepts. I even gave this rig a name. I called it a 'gallows rig'.

Bob

[velelatine]

Video lateen sail Canaria Isald (35 min) ;)

http://www.velelatine.it/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=100

[Guillermo]

Enrico,
I'll try to watch the film whenever I have 35 minutes to spare. :)
Cheers!

[Florian]

Here is my plan for a lateen rig on my boat instead of the origenal one. My bermuda rig is a bit old and I would like to try something different. I am planing to make the yard from two surfmasts wich I mound with the buttumsides on one third of below (by the masttop). This would give me a cheap and ligt yard. the mast can be of heavyer matirial becouse its very small. for reefing I intend to bring the entire yard dowm becouse a rail is far to expensive and just reconect the sail a bit lower can be made quite easy. With a traditional rig you also have to bring down the genua to switch it and than reaf the mainsail, In my case it's done in one time. I am still looking for a fastest and easyest way so suggestions re welcom.


About the sail between two masts: someone here in Holland dit it with a crab clw rig, he made the sail a bit small becouse he didn't know how it would react but is was quite succesfull. while tacking it didn't tuch any of the masts and becouse of the two controllines in top he coul chance the vertical angle of the sail so he could depower it by bringing the top to leeward or give it a bit more power while heeling by bringing the top to luff (and the bottem they opposit way in both situations.

[yipster]

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11817&d=1172760576
interesting but not there yet

[danielro]

Relating the performance of the lateen sail depending on the sailplan form, mainly depending on the rake of the ¿perch? (forward rig to the sail is attached) i useful to take a look at Chapter 11 of CA Marchaj "Sail Performance" Theory and Practice.
Best Regards from Las Palmas, Canary Island

[danielro]

An as a very different type of lateen sail racing boat here show the "barquillo" that sail in Fuerteventura and Lanzarote islands making "all round" courses (not only windward i mean, as the Las Palmas, Gran Canaria boats showed before).
The hull remembers those of small whalers boats of portuguese atlantic islands
More images in www.fuertevela.com

[Guillermo]

Hola Daniel!
I didn't know the 'barquillos'. Very nice.
I've seen you live in the Canry islands. In which one of them?
I use to go to the Canaries from time to time. I'm flying just tomorrow to Fuerteventura for business and I'll stay for a couple of days at the ex-Parador, close to Puerto del Rosario.
I've seen in your Gallery the image down here. Did you design that fishing boat? What do you do for a living? (If I may ask). Please send me a PM to info<at>gestenaval<dot>com or call my office to 986508436 and leave your contact data if you could be interested in talking business.
Un cordial saludo.

[keith66]

These mediterranean lateeners are lovely boats and obviously perform well, however i cant help remembering CA Marchaj's tests that showed the lateen in a very poor light against the crab claw rig, having had some practical experience of the crab claw, i have recently posted my thoughts on the rig in another thread on the open discussion part of this forum "What about the Crab claw" if anyone cares to have a look.

[danielro]

Keith, Could you attach the "What about the crab claw" internet address here? i can't find the post, :-(
My experience sailing is in Las Palmas lateen sail racing boats. Having 40 sq. m. sail of 13 m. luff, they are very powerful (only have 6.7 m. lenght) and the near vertical rake of the "perch" made them go windward easily with a good angle. To sail in another courses is, how can i say it... a bit... scaring... having in mind the sail size and that the normal trade winds here blows normally over 15 knots.
Regards.
Daniel

[lewisboats]

I presume you mean with the masts side by side.

I have thought of this idea. It occured to me that if you had the two masts come together at the top, some distance above the yard, you would have an 'A' frame set up which could have several advantages over a single mast. Chief amongst them would be the possibility of having it deck stepped with only two shrouds on each side holding it up. Because of the short mast needed for a lateen rig, it would be much easier to rase and lower than a conventional mast. And that would be its major advantage.

I don't think, however, that such a mast would be all that effective in keeping the sail off it in anthing lower than a close reach unless the boat in question is very wide (like a catamaran). But, still, I think it should be tried. My only worry is that we will end up with two bad tacks instead of just one.

The 'A' frame mast, to work, must have a spreader between its two legs right above the hoisting block to keep it centered. The load of this block must be transfered directly to the apex of this 'A' frame, so that all of its loads are in (mostly) compression rather than bending.

This same thing could be accomplished with two parallel masts with a sturdy cross piece on top, joinging them together. The hoisting block in this case could hang from between two cables, each leading to the top of a mast, which form a 90 deg. 'V', pointing downward. This arrangement could be used on narrower boats, but the two masts, in this case, must be considered 'free standing' and be designed accordingly. It would be very difficult, indeed, to hold this arrangement up with stays or shrouds. I have sketched such a rig for one of my design concepts. I even gave this rig a name. I called it a 'gallows rig'.

Bob

Been done: http://www.flyinglateen.com/welcome.html or very similar to what you describe.

Here is the Woodenboat Forum post where I came across it. Seems it wasn't very successful. http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=69121&highlight=lateen+Sail

Personally I don't see how it would work properly going downwind and lateens were never the best for going to windward...so it would seem to have a very narrow slot where it WOULD work.

Steve

[yipster]

http://www.flyinglateen.com/images/patterntest01.jpg
ok maybe not perfect on all courses but thats looks like a clean lateen with anchored sailfoot in a tripod on a mono
wonder how she sails ...why do i miss a backstay somehow...

[lewisboats]

Is that your artwork on the sail ;) . Here is the picture from the link I provided above
http://www.flyinglateen.com/images/main.jpg
Steve

Edit...Nope, I see you navigated a bit and pulled someone elses photoshopping. I like the white version better

[yipster]

:) your right and agree on the white sail, i never was good in abstract painting

[pebbletripper]

I am researching the idea that the invasion fleet of william the conqueror used a form of lateen sail with a crude form of roller reefing. This may sound bizzar but check out my trial using a viking type craft I built myself . type in bayeux sails project in you tube to see the video. All comments welcome:) Images of the bayeux ships can be seen on my website www.davidjones.uk.com soon to be updated

[ancient kayaker]

I plan to make a small lateen sail for a 10 ft (3m) kayak to try out this Summer.

It will not have a mast, just the yard, attached at the bow. I am looking for the low aspect ratio to keep the CoE low with decent windward capability. The yard is fixed so it cannot be rotated to sail at different points but the sail foot is simply let out: this will generate a variable vertical lift component that might help cancel heeling force on a broad reach. No "bad tack" side. It will hinge down for bridges. With 10 ft (3 m) of yard extending from the pulpit (?) at 45 deg I can hang a 25 sq ft 4.5 sq m) sail. I previously tried 15 sq ft area, was actually able to work upwind but not easy, so 25 sq ft should be sufficient. CoE will be 4.5 ft (1.4 m) back from bow which is about level with my shoulder: I plan to use a hand-held boom to control the clew. For downwind I may have to jibe in a series of broad reaches.

I'm not sure how well it will work but I'll try it

[pebbletripper]

one interesting thing about the bayeux sails images is the use of norman shields either for or aft to help compensate for problems with either upwind or downwind sailing .When I used shields mounted to the rear on a small lake with a square sail I found that instead of drifting hoplessly down wind sideways I was able to travel upwind very succesfully. A small vertical element to the rear of your vessel may be an excellent companion but a pain downwind. If you look at many vessels from egyptian times they have a raised feature at the rear like a palm frond (a small rigid mizen ) it takes the strain off of the steering for starters. Good luck

[ancient kayaker]

Perhaps an ancestor of the yawl. Nice web site!

I built a small canoe which had a pronounced preference for feathering upwind, not a bad habit and better than its oppoite but overdone in this case. I did not expect the pressure of the wind on my upper body to be so pronounced. I added a skeg to fix the problem, runs straight as a die and is great on a big lake but it is a bear to turn.

I have a new canoe awaiting a paint job which is similar but with a slightly raised sheerline forward and a hair more rocker which should cure the problem; it will be better for the river trips I take. It is the same technique as you describe.

It promises to be a busy year.

[sharpii2]

I am researching the idea that the invasion fleet of william the conqueror used a form of lateen sail with a crude form of roller reefing. This may sound bizzar but check out my trial using a viking type craft I built myself . type in bayeux sails project in you tube to see the video. All comments welcome:) Images of the bayeux ships can be seen on my website www.davidjones.uk.com soon to be updated

A very interesting idea.

The sails shown on the tapestry DO look triangular.

My guess is they were, but rigged like square sails.

None of the yards shown seem canted to any large degree.

I don't see where you get the roller furling idea from. I can see that would require two yards. One would attach to the mast and the other would be held by the first only at its ends. I see a great weight penalty there.

why not just lower the yard, slab reef the sail, then raise it again.

From what I have read, the lateen sail never really worked on the North Atlantic. One of Columbus's ships was so rigged when he set off, but was quickly changed to a square rigger once he made a nearby landfall.

[pebbletripper]

A very interesting idea.

The sails shown on the tapestry DO look triangular.

My guess is they were, but rigged like square sails.

None of the yards shown seem canted to any large degree.

I don't see where you get the roller furling idea from. I can see that would require two yards. One would attach to the mast and the other would be held by the first only at its ends. I see a great weight penalty there.

why not just lower the yard, slab reef the sail, then raise it again.

From what I have read, the lateen sail never really worked on the North Atlantic. One of Columbus's ships was so rigged when he set off, but was quickly changed to a square rigger once he made a nearby landfall.

In this case the storm spinakers held by the helmsman and tied off at the stern would be furled by hand by twisting ,simple to regulate and allowed to billow out in gusts . I have seen such a sail that appeared in a programme filmed in Lake Victoria . The small craft had a side rudder and the helmsman held the sail which was an over long triangle from his position in the stern. Easier to adjust than trying to reef in a storm over the heads of agitated horses with 700 other boats all around in the dark !

[sharpii2]

My guess is that the tapestry showed the fleet either making sail or beginning to strike the sail. As the square sails they used at the time had no boom, it seems logical that gathering up the foot of the sail would be the first step in furling and letting loose the foot would be the last step in setting sail. I don't believe they had foot ropes on the yard, so the sail could be gathered up to the yard, as in much later square riggers. Instead, they probably lowered the yard. One can imagine what a mess that would be if the foot of the sail wasn't gathered first.

Just a thought.

The traditional lateen had the virtue of being a better windward sail, as it did not have a long, loose luff that could buckle inward. But it had a big vice. The sail had to be rotated around the front of the mast every time one changed tacks. Either that, or the butt of the yard had to be pulled around the back of the mast, so it could always be on the leeward side. Now imagine doing that with a yard that weighed a ton or more in gusting winds and heaving seas.

The square rig was simply more secure and more handy. And it could be made to go to windward. At least in what we would today call a close reach. A long pole was often used to hold the luff out into the wind and keep it from collapsing. I believe it was called a beatrice, or something like that. The other end of the pole was braced into a socket on the deck or windward gunwale. Hence the tradition of calling 'tacks' 'beats'.

[pebbletripper]

Have a look at my you tube video . type in bayeux sails project and ignore the first bit of sailing as I tried to sail across the wind. one interesting thing is the number of other images of triangular sails used downwind in the 11th c . one of the best is a storm scene try - ship boyana church in google images. And there are many more around the med. If you send me an email I will send the images. Also if you want to see the bubble trails under a viking craft and how they form , again look on the you tube page davidjonesfm@onetel.com I will repeat in case emails are restricted davidjonesfm(at sign)onetel.com

[troy2000]

One of my favorite crackpot theories is one my dad came up with. Whatever else could be said about his mental facilities towards the end of his life, nothing ever impaired his imagination.

He figured the way Vikings got upriver past rapids and waterfalls was to put a bigger sail on a longship, fly it up out of the water like a kite, and reel it back in upstream of the obstacles. According to him, that was the origin of the stories about flying dragons.:)