View Full Version : Quantum Sails Asia - cheating the customers
I am not sure if here is a proper place for this post or not, but just want to warn the boating community.
We ordered two sails for 23m catamaran in May, but still not delivered and nobody can give any idea about terms of delivery or refund of our payment. Looks like Quantum Sails Asia (Malaysia) or Quantum Structural Membranes has internal problems. Their management staff just not recieve the telephone and not reply the e-mails.
I strongly recommend not to deal with the loft named Quantum Sails Asia or Quantum Structural Membranes in Malaysia.
Raggi_Thor
11-02-2006, 09:05 AM
Good to know.
Do you have any experience with Lee Sails in Hongkong?
I have heard they make good (for their price) cruising sails.
Crag Cay
11-02-2006, 10:05 AM
I have experience of Lee Sails, although 25 years ago! We needed a complete compliment of sails for a new build square rigger. The order was placed with Lee's as they had completed several other ships to a very high standard.
However it was not a buying relationship for someone of even a slightly nervous disposition. The order was placed months in advance but no progress appeared to have been made even 10 days before the official celebrity launch. We expected to the see their loft swarming with work on our order. But nothing, although they kept on assuring us everything was fine and it would be okay on the day.
With about a week to go we were beginning to panic and demanded to see some progress. They told us that things were now in hand and that if we were to return to the ship, some people would be along for a first fit. Sure enough a large sanpan arrived with dozens of workers who scurried aloft and rough fittted all 12 sails. We then went around with the head sailmaker to add final comments and the whole lot was stripped off and disappeared for final adjusting and hand finishing. Two days later it was all back, bent on and ready with two days to spare.
My admiration for Lee Sails was established, but as a breed, sailmakers are not the most reliable bunch and have given rise to plenty more anxious moments over the years (Goacher Sails excepted!).
2 Crag Cay
With Quantum this is not same story. Looks like they just want to skip orders, done by previous management.
gggGuest
11-02-2006, 03:24 PM
I strongly recommend not to deal with the loft named Quantum Sails Asia or Quantum Structural Membranes in Malaysia.
As this is a well known International comany witha rather bigger reputation than you have, what evidence can you give us that this story is genuineluy true and not malicious? For all anyone knows you might work for a competitor...
As this is a well known International comany witha rather bigger reputation than you have, what evidence can you give us that this story is genuineluy true and not malicious?
We have the payment documents and do not have sails. Is that enough?
I can provide all correspondence with Quantum to interested parties, just ask by PM or e-mail.
For me it is really amazing why this international company does not care about reputation as thay play like that.
Frosty
11-02-2006, 09:06 PM
I cant help but think there is more to this. What do they say when you phone them and ask 'where is my sails'?
If they have blatantly took your money and have not made any attempt to make your order and say so,--then your dissapoinment can be understood.
In such a situation it can also be understood why you would want to warn us of such a company, and air your annoiance.
Im sure that you will undestand that it is difficult for us to accept your story of Quantums unbelievable incompetance on its own and that if you really intend to slag off the company then site further information for us to judge this for ouselves.
2 jack frost
The management staff is not available on phone, and secretary can not answer anything. They just expect I give up asking. And it is already many months without any perspective of getting our order.
The story is that their previous manager resigned and new management does not want to respond for orders. Actually as it turned out they have two companies (but only one website and same managemet, at least before) named Quantum Asia and Quantum Structutal Membranes. The interrelation between these companies is complicated and not clear to customers. Now they can not figure out who will respond the orders. I know we are not the only customer cheated as the secretary said yesterday that customers keep calling and asking about thier orders.
I can understand about internal problems, but someone here said Quantum is a reputable company... At least we want to have clear perspective when and how we can get the order or refund. I think in this situation 'hiding' is not right policy for managenet.
RHough
11-02-2006, 11:37 PM
Contact Larry Leonard Founder & Managing Partner, Quantum Sail Design Group, Loft Owner/Sail Designer, Quantum Annapolis.
Quantum Lofts are independent but "Quantum Asia is now run as a direct subsidiary of Quantum Sail Design Group within the Quantum Structural Membrane factory in Melaka, Malaysia."
"Per Andersson Head Designer and Vice President, QSDG
Per is originally from Stockholm, Sweden and currently resides in Annapolis, MD, where he is QSDG’s chief designer. Per not only designs sails for the group but has also played a large role in developing and engineering the Fusion-M product that the group builds at QSM in Malaysia."
Both of these guys are in Annapolis. I would be very interested in what they have to say about this situation. I'm about to place an order for 4 or 5 sails and Quantum has been my loft of choice for the last few years. If you don't get a satisfactory response from them I want to know.
I already e-mailed to Annapolis office and attached the link to this discussion also. Hope we can get positive result. I'll keep public informed.
I've got e-mail from US office with explaination of situation. The loft in Malaysia and 'head office' start moving only when they have seen I share the situation with boating community, before that they were quet!
No word of appologize in this e-mail. The reaction is that 'please find our ex-manager and ask him to clear Your order'. They do not want to respond for their staff mismanagement. This is not the attitude of reputable company.
Let's see what happen next...
Jaramaz
11-18-2006, 01:54 PM
Anything?
2 busy weeks ...
/J
Actually, no progress in getting sails. Trying to find previous manager with our money :)
Jaramaz
11-19-2006, 10:56 AM
Do you have a written contract / confirmation / receipt from Quantum on your payment(s)? Or any other way to prove that you have paid?
If you have then go to the police, or (worse) a lawyer (check your insurance, it might contain some legal costs). From the message you seems to have got from Quantum ("please find our ex-manager and ask him to clear Your order") Quantum tries to put you in a strange position, and probably gain time. If you have an agreement with Quantum, then it is not you who should find their ex-manager, it is them.
If, as you indicate, there has been different QS companies involved, and the one that you have an agreement is no longer active (??), then again, police (fraud!).
If you do not have any way of proving your agreement with Quantum, then you have to re-consider. Any way of proving the money transfer? etc.
Best of luck!
/J
We have invoice and money transfer record, plus all correspondence. Quantum Membranes in Malaysia was pushed to report the police about situation with us and five other customers. But the problem is that money was paid to retail company named Quantum South East Asia that used to pass orders to Quantum Membranes, though their manager was same. The manager was the owner of Quantum S.E.A. also... Membranes does not want to respond for orders as formally money was not paid to them, but actually the situation arrived due to a) their staff and b) system of orders used by Quantum. The steps Quantum is doing now is trying to find the ex-manager and ask him to refund the payments. I really think this would be no success as money is probably spent. I really think something is wrong in Quantum system, but yes, going to court is the last choice for us.
ja001565
11-22-2006, 07:59 AM
If the ex-manager you refer to is Bruce Anson then best of luck. He has a very long list of fraudulent activity in Australia when he represented Sobstad Australia, leave many behind many unpaid debts, mainly to suppliers.
He is know within the Australia sailing industry as departing and leaving behind huge debts and escaping to Asia. His Australia company's went bankrupt. So that says it all.
Why Qantum decided to accept him into their family was strange, poor governance and research. Most people associated with him are part of the same ilk.
However saying that, I'm sure Qantum will not want this poor press so suggest you issue them with a request to either supply the sails in good faith or refund your monies.
Two months - no progress, Quantum is silent. Bruce is known to open new loft in Langkawi (Malaysia) under local 'JG Boats' roof and they claim they represent North Sails... I am still concerned about Quantum's attitude.
Jaramaz
01-24-2007, 05:01 AM
sue them. The longer you wait, the weaker your case.
/J
TaSSie_deVil
01-24-2007, 06:22 AM
Sue them for breech of contract - sounds like you should have a reasonable case there. However, before breech of contract can be proven, you need a signed contract - or at least a clear and documented verbal understanding between the two parties involved. Also, it'd be a good idea to ensure you have done your research into the local laws regarding your situation - some countries do not recognise a construction order as a legally binding contract. But, as you do have an invoice and proof of payment, this issue should be pretty much open and shut.
The other option (on a very much less serious level) is to convince a couple of meat-axe AC or VOR grinders (ie. the sort who walks into a boat yard, finds the nearest IOR keel and a flat place to lie and then bench-presses the keel, all for fun) to dress up in black suits with dark tinted glasses and get a black car with dark tinted windows and have them 'gently persuade' them (anyone in the loft management or former management - either will do) to come good with the sails - it worked for the KGB (and in movies!) :P
Second option is quite workable. At least in counrty whrere I come from :)
We have got order confirmation from Quantum Sails Design Group today. I'll inform the public on further progress.
lazeyjack
05-01-2007, 03:20 AM
intersting and stressful , esp for those on a Budget.
There are many such stories esp. for China, even big international companies get bitten
So for my new boat , where should I go? last sails were made in NZ
She is only 12m but I want high class performance stuff, any ideas
View Full Version : Quantum Sails Asia - cheating the customers