Huge sailboat simply built

[Greenseas2]

We are in the process of building a 24 foot San Francisco Pelican and the internal size is amazingly large. The vessel is actually meant to be a small cargo carrying boat for a resident in Andros Bahamas and has had the design modified for a small cabin and large cargo hold. The Pelicans are exceptionally stable and seaworthy, yet economical to build and own. This particular boat is a latrge version of the 12 footer that is specifically design to stand up to the strong winds and steep seas in San Francisco Bay. I have sailed some of the 12 footers and they are extremely stable. The 24 foot size would make an idea cruising vessel. Hopefully we will be able to enter a 12 footer in the March Everglades challenge sponsored by Watertribe. The beam on the 24 footer is a full 12 feet with a 4 foot freeboard.....a lot of boat for the money.

[ron17571]

shoulda included a link to info about this wonder boat.

[Greenseas2]

Sorry, I forgot the link. It is, Community-2.webtv.net/Pelicansailboat/SFPelicansailboats/ The information covers the 12', 16' and 18' Pelicans. For the 24 footer we just doubled the dimensions for the 12 footer and added two watertight bulkheads, one at the front of the hold and the other at the aft end of the hold which is also the forward bulkhead for the small cabin. Very simple and very fast to build. With very shallow draft, the boat can powered to hull speed with a 5hp outboard. For those who might want to convert the boat to a motorsailer, the hull volume provides lots of possibilities to be outfitted as a good cruising boat or liveaboard.

[SAQuestor]

Sorry, I forgot the link. It is, Community-2.webtv.net/Pelicansailboat/SFPelicansailboats/

Link does not appear to work. On the tool bar there is a icon for inserting a link. Hover your mouse pointer over the various icons to find out what they do.

[Greenseas2]

Just go to yahoo and type in San Francisco Pelican sailboat and you should find it

[LP]

http://community-2.webtv.net/PelicanSailboat/SFPELICANSAILBOATS/index.html

[Greenseas2]

Knowledge is never gained too late if it is used. If the boat pictured was built by you, you did a great job. With the San Francisco Pelicans, they provide a lot of utility and can be built for a number of uses including long distance cruising, camp cruising, racing and cargo carrying. We anticipate using a 16 footer for the grueling Watertribe Everglades Challenge in March as it is easily sailed, has shallow draft (4"), can be rowed or poled in the shallow banks of Florida Bay and various "filtering" courses. The 300 mile race doesn't allow motors of any sort and we feel the Pelican is a good candidate for winning the race. The lug sail and jib on the Pelican provide more than enough sail area to move the boat spritely even under heavy loads. Currently we have a 30 foot S2 9.2C sloop, but may scale down to a 24 foot Pelican.

[Guillermo]

In the Ria de Vigo, and also down in La Guardia, just in the border with Portugal, we have traditional boats called "gamelas" which have been around from centuries. They are simple, seaworthy and sail beatifully, with no keel at all, just a huge rudder.

Those San Francisco Pelicans resemble very much our old gamelas, so, perhaps are they inspired in them....?

You may know more about our gamelas by visiting the following sites (In spanish):

http://www.terra.es/personal8/986307044/diana.htm
http://www.modelismonaval.com/magazine/gamela_coruxeira/

[Greenseas2]

There is a decided similarity to the boats. The pelican was designed by a San Francisco Bay tug boat captain. In that area there is a large Italian and Portuguese influence though and a distinct possibility of some modeling.

[Guillermo]

These are commercial fishermen's boats and have been in use for that purpose till maybe a dozen of years ago. Nowadays they are used only for recreational purposes in the hands of traditional boats lovers.
When I was a child my family used to spend summertimes at a fisherman's house very close to the beach in the attached photo. We stayed at the top floor of the house and the firsherman's family moved for those months to the ground level floor. The name of the couple were Ramón and Filomena, both of them already dead, being extraordinarily heartly people, and really hard workers. Ramón taught me how to fish, bringing me with him for short fishing sailings many times, when he was fishing in close to home waters. I remember I always tried to help him to launch and beach back again his gamela at the beach in the photo, with the help of a wooden roller, although all effort was done by him, as I was a child and not a very strong one. But he always told me 'well done' when we finished. Wonderful days...

[Greenseas2]

I envy you your childhood experiences with the boats and mentor. One of the attractive features that drew me toward the Pelican design is that they are easily launched and recovered on the beach. While having a large volume that can be adapted to almost any maritime use, the shallow draft and flat bottom (board up) provide access to almost any area that people would want to go. Looking for a safe harbor from an approaching storm is easy compared to deep draft keel boats. Similarly, with the Pelican used as a cargo carrier, the boat can be run right up almost to the waterline on the beach and cargo carried a few feet to dry land by the crew.....no need for a port. The boat is ideal for remote locations. For cargo use, I would build a couple of skegs on the bottom simply to protect the bottom from wear while grounding.

[sharpii2]

Knowledge is never gained too late if it is used. If the boat pictured was built by you, you did a great job. With the San Francisco Pelicans, they provide a lot of utility and can be built for a number of uses including long distance cruising, camp cruising, racing and cargo carrying. We anticipate using a 16 footer for the grueling Watertribe Everglades Challenge in March as it is easily sailed, has shallow draft (4"), can be rowed or poled in the shallow banks of Florida Bay and various "filtering" courses. The 300 mile race doesn't allow motors of any sort and we feel the Pelican is a good candidate for winning the race. The lug sail and jib on the Pelican provide more than enough sail area to move the boat spritely even under heavy loads. Currently we have a 30 foot S2 9.2C sloop, but may scale down to a 24 foot Pelican.

Sounds like a good plan to me.

Are you going to have a crewmate or is it just going to be you? Do you plan on sleeping on board during part of the voyage?
If you are going to be two, are you going to sail on a 24 hour basis (probably your best chance at winning)?

Personally, I think the SF Pelican design was a stroke of genius that would be difficult to improve upon. Scaling it up to 24 ft ought to give you one big boat (2.5 to 3.5 tons, loaded)

Best of luck.

Bob

[Greenseas2]

Hi Bob,
The Everglades challenge is a tough one where you do sleep aboard (sporadically) if you want to win. The 16 foot super pelican has plenty of room for sleeping and stowing gear. At this point I have no crew member as getting the boat built is first priority. The Challenge itself would be almost impossible single handedly. I believe the Pelican can do the Challenge course in about 2.5 days.

[Tad]

Greenseas,

At the top of the thread you mention entering a 12' and then further down it's a 16'?

Either one will never average 5 knots for 60 hours, unless you are caught in a passing hurricane. Even a really good 17'-20' will need lots of work to average 5 knots over the ground, and they can't keep it up without rowing hard a great deal of the time. The boats that finish the 300 mile Everglades Challenge in 2.5 days are rigged with tandem oars and they row a lot. I think a great pelican would be heartbreaking to row for any length of time.

I wish you good luck with it. Tad

[Greenseas2]

The intent is to use the 16' super pelican for the challenge. Seaworthyness is more important than speed and finishing the challenge is as good as winning. We may even try a kite sail for addition sail area in modeate breezes. It's a fun thing more than a real race. An important feature is that the flat bottom is easy to launch off of the beach on PVC pipe rollers. No automated launching or trailers allowed. The second is that with shallow draft of 4", the boat is poled more easily than rowed against strong currents in some places on the course.

[Tad]

Greenseas,

One can never tell what people might be trying to say when they post.

If a race is scored boat-for-boat and you state that you are planning to finish this race in near record time I assume you are serious about racing. In my post above I was saying that if you are serious about racing you need a faster boat.

When I see that Matt Layden took something over 3 days to complete the course, a very experienced sailor in a well prepared (though short) boat, I would say you would do well to finish in anything less than 4 days.

By all means go and have fun. Tad

[Greenseas2]

Apparently you are familiar with the race. A B-cat took first place, but I'm not in to spartan living, for even one day. Regardless of the speed, being able to move around the clock rather than camping ashore during the night is a big edge toward placing high. Might even pick up the outboard at the end of the race and go around Key west back to the St. Lucie River and home......don't know yet.

[Tad]

Racing and cruising in small open boats is a subject I care about and work to promote.

I am somewhat familiar with the Everglades Challenge, I run a superficially similar event here in the PNW, http://www.shipyardraid.ca

Our event is a 7 day, 11 leg, 100 mile race for traditional open boats. It's far less hardcore than the Watertribe events, being more of a relaxed cruise in company.

I believe the current record for the Everglades Challenge is held by the Core Sound 17', at 2 days 18 hours, and the G-Cat finished second about 3 hours later.

Tad

[Greenseas2]

TAD, you're right about the core sond winning. I had to go back and check the article in the Good Old Boat magazine. At any rate, I'm surprised that there aren't more of these contests available, and surprised that there isn't more visibility for the one's that do exist.
Personally I would like to see a cruising race around the easier part of Florida. Leave Stuart and cross the state on the Okeechobee Waterway, head south at Fort Myers then down to Key West and back up Hawks Channel to Stuart on the east coast. Same rules, launch from the beach and no motors.

[Guillermo]

Very interesting, that kind of open boats rowing-sailing rallies. Maybe we should do something like that here in Galicia (I think we have none).
Cheers.

[coops.gb]

Hi would love to hear how the 24 ft pelican project is coming along.?
I am considering something similar myself
any project photos would be great
Cheers Glenn

[Pericles]

Guillermo,

The Gamela looks to be an excellent candidate for epoxy/ply construction,
http://www.terra.es/personal8/986307044/diana.htm What are the average dimensions please?

That rudder is MASSIVE. Certainly not shallow draft! Can the vessel be propelled with it? :D


Regards,

Perry

[Guillermo]

Perry,
There have been some units built up in plywood, but not epoxied, as far as I know. But for sure the 'gamelas' are excellent candidates for ply/epoxy construction. Length is around 4-4,5 m. I have a book at the office about them and I'll try (next monday) to post some drawings with measurements from there.
Cheers.

[Pericles]

Guillermo,

Thanks!

Perry

[Pericles]

Guillermo,

An article dated 1917 discusses the use of the dagger board used in Chinese sailing vessels.

http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/junk/sampan.html#profile

How about using it to enable Gamelas to pinch higher? :D A secret modification.

Perry

[Guillermo]

perry,
I've realized now I forgot about posting more info on the gamelas. My head is getting old...:(
Let's try again.

[Guillermo]

Here you are :)

Cheers.

[Pericles]

Sorry Guillermo, nothing in attachments.

Perry

[Guillermo]

Wops!
I don't know what's happening. Attachements are there, but they do not appear now! (yesterday they were working fine...:confused: )

[Guillermo]

Let's see if works now...

To give due credit to the author: drawings are from the spanish NA Íñigo Echenique, published in his very nice book "Madeira de Mar".

Cheers

[Pericles]

Guillermo,

Success.

Thank you.

Perry

[Greenseas2]

Ran in to some legal problems with export to the Bahamas with the 24 foot Pelican. Also was officially and unofficially told that sending them to the Caribbean was not a good idea as they're weight carrying capacity, simplicity in building and seaworthiness made them ideal candidates for smugglers. Even good deeds have their draw backs.

[Mark Elliot]

greenseas 2 hi I am interested in the Pelican 24 as a cruising boat, can this be junked rigged. Any pics & info I would love to see regards Mark Elliot

[Greenseas2]

The Pelican 24 was modified to be an inexpensive island freighter and would have to be reconfigured quite a bit to be a cruising boat. Your best bet is to use the plans for the Pelican 12 and double them. There are afew versions of larger Pelicans on various web sites, but for our purposes we needed the higher freeboard that was accomplished by doubling the Pelican 12 plans with additional structural reinforcement which is easy to figure out. The current 24 freighter version has double external keels with encapsulated zinc anodes for ballast and changes the sailing characteristics a lot. These two 24's were purpose built and I really wouldn't recommend them to anyone. We won't be building any more.

[FAST FRED]

Same rules, launch from the beach and no motors.

You will have a huge problem with all of the Florida Locks, there not enamored of row boats , and do not allow sailing.

Most bridges will not open for a sail propelled boat .

I live in Ortona , near the lock.

FF

[peterbmetcalf]

Hi everyone,
I met with Bill Short the designer of the Pelican when I was a teenager; my mom talked with him at times re: our boat. He considered the Pelican to be a dory cut off fore and aft, with a pram bow. The dory would be 18 feet if the boat were extended to the ends.
I don't have at present much time to work on and money to afford a 24' Pelican, but if anyone knows of any size for sale in the area of San Francisco Bay, I would like to see if it is a possibility.
My mother on the phone heard Short curse like only a sailor can, the person who built our 12' boat having only a single, rather than twin vertical structural members amidships at the stern. He knew design, and knew the demands of the bay. Some builders consider the Pelican overbuilt. He obviously did not.
The boat is exceptionally seaworthy. I had mine out typically in small craft warnings, and it was great. Greatest blow was 50 knots. I had a great sail.
Peter Metcalf

[peterbmetcalf]

Just writing to say I am still interested if anyone knows of a bigger than 16 ft. Pelican for sale.
Thanks.

[Greenseas2]

A group of us built two 24 foot Pelicans for island cargo carrying but strayed from the design too much and wound up with two boats that should have been scrapped. The 24 foot Emporer Pelican Is easy enough to build if you stick to the proportional dimensions that Bill Short designed for the 12 footer. I don't believe that you can find a production boat with the same sailing qualities of a Pelican for the price to build one. Great boats.

[Thelin]

Hi,

I'm the new owner of "Dowser" a 20' Super Pelican built in 1990 by John Roumbanis. I purchased Dowser from Jeff Lehman of Platypus boats and am just finishing off glassing the interior and repainting the decks. Currently Dowser is fitted with a large Chinese junk rig, but I also have the original bowsprit to reconfigure her to her lug rig/jib design.

Thelin

[peterbmetcalf]

HI Thelin,
Congratulations on acquiring Dowser.
I would enjoy seeing pictures once (s)he is ready. (This is an eastern rig and looking boat - the Arabs consider their boats male, not female).
I would keep the boat light as possible to avoid having to carry too much canvas. Please keep me posted, and if ever you decide to sell, I will be interested. I have a friend who wants to start teaching sailing via his non-profit performance art center (performance as in virtually anything that boosts self esteem and brings fulfillment or satisfaction, and is achieved through practice or effort). A big big Pelican is ideal for SF Bay lessons!
Thanks for responding to my posting! And enjoy Dowser!
Peter

[Thelin]

Thanks for the info Peter.

Dowser's been around for a while and is a very pleasant boat to sail. Keeping her light might be a problem though as John Roumbanis really overbuilt her.

As I've only had Dowser for about a month and a half I have no plans to sell -- yet, but I'll keep you in mind.

Peter