View Full Version : 40class boats
The "Route du Rhum" has begun today and I am very curious about the performance of the new 40Class.
There are 25 boats in this class, and for a new class it is a kind of record, but the main interest is that this class will allow almost everybody to race with a performing fast boat, because the budgets are low.
The boats are fast, but all hi-tech. expensive materials are out. The results are 25 inscriptions, lots of interesting boats, and a real link between pure racing boats and very fast cruising boats. I think that the next modern cruising fast boats will be heavily influenced by these ones.
The cost of these boats, including racing sails, is between 200 000 and 300 000 euros and total costs of the race are between 60 000 and 150 000 euros.
http://www.class40racing.com/4436/16226.html
http://www.class40racing.com/index2.html
http://www.skipper40.com/bateau_class40.php
http://www.routedurhum-labanquepostale.com/en/s01_home/s01p01_home.php
http://www.skipper40.com
http://www.class40.com/index.php?section=14
Guillermo
10-31-2006, 12:58 AM
Taken from http://www.class40racing.com/index2.html :
Owen Clarke Design also claim of their long coachroof design: "Designed for true offshore competitive performance but also as a dual role yacht in which the family can take off cruising, rolling off fast effortless miles to those holiday destinations. The characteristics of a solo race boat will make her a reliable and steady short handed fast cruiserwith the foot released a little of the accelerator and a cold beer released from the ice box!"
My God...! :rolleyes:
(See more comments on this at the STIX, etc, thread in Stability Forums)
safewalrus
11-04-2006, 05:20 PM
Exactly Guillermo, when does a dinghy stop being a dinghy? It scares me - maybe as an out and out race boat manned by big hairy gorillas yes! but as a family boat .......:( :confused:
Gorilla, Safewalrus, Gorilla, just one. It is a solo race.:D
And if a lonely Gorilla can oceanrace that boat, another Gorilla (with a lot less sail and not pressed to go fast) can safely cruise on that boat with his family:p The family can even can give him some help.:P
safewalrus
11-05-2006, 10:25 AM
Yeah Vega, sorry GorillA. Yep and you can cross Oceans on a raft of balsa logs but is it safe or comfortable? Only the ones who never made it can tell you that! and they aren't talking! But is it sensible to go to sea in a sieve? You gotta start somewhere!
marshmat
11-05-2006, 11:17 AM
I don't see anything fundamentally wrong, from an engineering standpoint, with the idea of having a boat that is both fast enough to race and comfortable enough to cruise. Surely we've been developing yachts for enough centuries that we can figure out a way to do that.
From a sailing standpoint, the new 40s look seriously cool, and I would love to be able to afford one. It looks like cost is a major issue in the new class and I'm glad they've taken some steps to keep prices down.
RHough
11-05-2006, 12:28 PM
I don't see anything fundamentally wrong, from an engineering standpoint, with the idea of having a boat that is both fast enough to race and comfortable enough to cruise. Surely we've been developing yachts for enough centuries that we can figure out a way to do that.
From a sailing standpoint, the new 40s look seriously cool, and I would love to be able to afford one. It looks like cost is a major issue in the new class and I'm glad they've taken some steps to keep prices down.
Yup, there are thousands of racer/cruiser sailboats. Every ounce of creature comfort tips the scale towards the cruiser end.
It is possible to travel cross country in a F-1 car or a Winnebago.
Getting the Winnebago to be as fast as the F-1 car is the problem. If you are happy with a tent over the cockpit, the F-1 car becomes a motor-home.
The nice thing about boats and cars (as my old car salesman said) is "There's an ass for every seat."
I know of a family of 7 that cruise on a J-24 ... go figure. :)
it is safe or comfortable?
Comfortable? No; Safe? More safe than many so-called oceangoing boats of that size.
They seem unsafe boats, because they are light and open, but they have their ballast deep down in a big bulb and will be harder to capsize than most cruising boats of that size.
The nice thing about boats and cars (as my old car salesman said) is "There's an ass for every seat."
Yes, and it should be like that, otherwise it would be a very boring world.;)
From a sailing standpoint, the new 40s look seriously cool, and I would love to be able to afford one. It looks like cost is a major issue in the new class and I'm glad they've taken some steps to keep prices down.
Some of those boats exist already as production boats and are not very expensive boats.
When I have time I will post links.
I will post here a very interesting post by Grag Cay about these boats. It was posted on the STIX thread:
I'm sorry Guillermo, but I fail to understand any of your implied criticisms of this class. It seems to me to be one of the more carefully considered classes and one I welcome whole heatedly. I can find very little in either their ethos or detail that is less than commendable.
The class requirement to comply with the various ISO regs is a neat way of controlling various parameters at the design stage. But as you say, these are racing boats and therefore RCD compliance is not legally required, so involvement of the Notified Bodies and their cost, can be avoided. However, the class has instigated a series of measurement tests to check class rule compliance, OSR Regs and by inference, ISO compliance when combined with data from the designers. This includes weighing each boat and performing the 90 degree recovery test, that was developed, and has proved effective with the Open Classes. In this instant it is performed in the least stable configuration, ie with 750kgs of water ballast in its least favourable position.
Wide beam and flat decks are recognised as a problem and hence there is a deck and coach house volume requirement (above the sheer plane) in the rules to try and minimise this.
……
When I campaigned an IOR 2 tonner, it took 14 crew to race it competitively under IOR, but I raced it happily double handed and enjoyed miles of cruising either alone or with attractive, but nautically clueless young ladies. And that was before self tailing winches, ATN snuffers and roller furling to help.
Yeah Vega, sorry GorillA.
Take a look at some of those lonely Gorillas. I bet they can take you safely across the Atlantic…as a passenger.:P
At this moment the first boat is finishing the race, at Guadalupe. The line honors go for Lionel Lemonchois and Gitana 11, the first of the trimarans.
The First of the 40class is still some days back. No problem with any of the boats. They sailed with a lot of wind and occasionally went at 20k. Not bad for inexpensive boats, that you can reconvert in fast cruising boats.
Some of them were cruising boats that have been converted in racing boats. You can recognize them in the photos, because they have standard portholes.
Some photos of the boats:
Guillermo
11-06-2006, 01:48 PM
...."There's an ass for every seat."
I could be ironic on that statement just by adding a four lettered word to the sentence, but let's say I will not do it....;)
The most popular boat on the 40 Class is the Pogo 40 (on this race and class, 11 boats out of 25) , a production boat that has two versions, cruising and racing.
And this does not mean that you can not cruise with a racing boat, because the differences are minimal. You can order a racing boat with a cruising interior, it will not make a significant difference in weight and the Ballasts are interchangeable (3m and 2.2M).
The Boat was designed by Groupe Finot, by Jean Marie and Pascal Conq, two designers that are out of that group of NA who design boats without sailing them. These two are real sailors and they talk like sailors:
"For the Structures shipyard, we designed the Pogo 40 in the new spirit of offshore boats that are going back to the essence of sailing.
It is meant for those who want open sea, long journeys or transatlantic racing.
Fast boat, easy to control even with reduced crew.
Strong hull, deep ballast (3 m or 2,2 m interchangeable ).
Large sail area on a carbon mast.
Water ballasts, very simple rig."
Or in the words of the builders:
"Our goal was to design a boat capable of achieving a compromise between fast racing and long distance cruising. We decided that a 40 foot (12.20 m) boat was the ideal length. A length that would be manouverable, even for amateurs.
And so the Pogo 40 was born...Designed to travel long distances at high speeds. A boat that is simple to sail even with a reduced number of crew. A serious boat which is easy to maintain. A trustworthy boat, sure and unsinkable.
With the new Pogo 40 you can line up at the start of any one of the international offshore races, such as the Route de Rhum or the English Transat or take you family on a long distance trip across the Atlantique during a sabbatical year. "
http://www.pogostructures.com/files/Pogo_15-9-2006_16:43:58.pdf
http://www.finot.com/bateaux/batproduction/structures/pogo12/pogo40_ang.htm
http://www.pogostructures.com/?m=4&s=1&l=en
Tomorrow I will post the other production boats on the 40class.;)
Regards
About the performance of these boats, go here:
http://www.routedurhum-labanquepostale.com/en/s01_home/s01p01_home.php#
Click in CHARTS and enjoy yourself clicking on the dots and seeing the position and the picture of the boat. They are in the middle of the 40ft/50ft cats and not very far from the slower open 60:eek:
Tomorrow the leader of the 40 class is going to find 40knot winds...I think he is going to left a lot of bigger boats behind.
About the seaworthiness of these boats, the last "news" from the official race site is enlightening. The site has almost nothing in English, so I offer you a very free translation:
Apocalyptic....50k of wind and 8 m waves.”:
"The wind reached 60K"
“we try to find the right compromise between going fast and stay in one piece”.
“The sea was completely white and it seemed it was making a lot of smoke”
“It was incredible, we were doing surfs at 24k”
“ The wind is blowing steadily at 50 k”
“ I was going with a reef in the main sail when a huge breaking wave exploded over the boat. I was projected out of the boat. When the boat righted itself up I was projected (by the life line) to the other side of the boat. More fear than a problem”.
“That’s my 5th Transat and I have never seen nothing like this. Three days with 50k winds, one of them close-winded.”
“I knew that the RHUM was an adventure, but I was not expecting so much”.
http://www.routedurhum-labanquepostale.com/fr/s03_news/s03p01_actu.php?classe=60
Tomorrow another storm is getting them.
From the twenty-five 40’s none has capsized (several cats did not have the same chance) and only one of them retired from the race (keel problems). The other 24 are doing a well of a race and proving that these boats are great boats.
What impresses me most is that they are still racing and trying to go as fast as they can. Apparently 50k is a bit uncomfortable for them, but not really dangerous to the point of assuming survival tactics.
What are the limits of these boats? They are solo crewed, we must assume that with a crew, the limits would be even broader.
It seems that these boats are not only very fast but also very seaworthy.
The new 40class have also raised a lot of interest among Naval architects.
Lots of boats from different designers even if the Groupe Finot (Pogo) is responsible for 11 boats (out of 25).
But amazingly in the first 7 places (at this moment), there are boats designed by 5 different Nas.
1th and 2th –Groupe Finot
3th and 6th – Jules Marin (these are the boats made of wood composite and with chines).
4th- Pierre Rolland
5th – Marc Lombard
7th- Owen Clarke
Owen Clarke is the only one that is not French. He is British, and says about is boat:
“Designed for true offshore competitive performance but also as a dual role yacht in which the family can take off cruising, rolling off fast effortless miles to those holiday destinations. The characteristics of a solo race boat will make her a reliable and steady short handed fast cruiser, with the foot released a little of the accelerator and a cold beer released from the ice box! “
And he says about himself:
“Like many good yacht designers, we once built our own boats too,... Most importantly, we are experienced and competitive sailors... “
It looks like this one also don’t belong to that group that designs boats without sailing them.:p
safewalrus
11-13-2006, 06:09 AM
Still look like glorified dinghys to me - each to his own I guess! Maybe I'm getting old!! OK so they may go like you know what off a shovel but I still have my doubts! There again there was a time when I'd have been right at the front shouting 'me next' - yep getting old! (but there again I did that with things that deffinately were NOT safe!)
Another 40ft boat that pre-exists the 40class is the Jumbo 40, a Design by Pierre Rolland:
http://www.jumbo40.com/article.php3?id_article=14
Pierre, is a Sailor and have learned how to make boats sailing them:
“My graduation as a NA was made basically sailing.”
(4th in the 2003 solo mini-transat)
Looking at his portfolio, It seems that it is not a bad way to graduate:P :
His race boats had won lots of races and established records. His cruising boats are very innovative and are produced in large numbers by several manufacturers.
http://team.seasailsurf.com/rolland-archi/
This video was made by Olivier Rabine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo5KPR197w8&eurl=
His boat is a Jumbo40 and he is now in the 3th place. That's my hero. Racing solo in one of those fast boats, with more than 50k of wind, is not for the ones with a faint heart, but doing that without an automatic pilot (3 days now) and still managing to overtake the guy that was in front (he was 4th) that’s really something:eek: .
He had made a time-table, to be at the rudder (he says that the boat is unstable without nobody at the ruder:rolleyes: ) : 4h- 7h, 8h-13h, 14h-19h et 20h-01h.:rolleyes:
Crazy guy, I hope he can make it, certainly this one deserves to be at the podium;)
Philip Shark is the 40class winner, on a Pogo.
The average speed was a little bit over 8knots.
As I was hopping, these boats are really fast and they will be a relatively inexpensive alternative for the ones that want to race, but have not the means.
Philip Shark left behind him 1 multihull ORMA 60, 2 Open IMOCA 60, 3 class 2 multihulls (half of them), all of the class 1 monohulls (4) half of the class 2 monohulls (2) and from the Class 3, only one was faster (2 behind).
The vast majority of these boats are bigger and much more expensive than the Pogo 40;) .
Stephen Ditmore
11-17-2006, 02:23 PM
amazingly in the first 7 places (at this moment), there are boats designed by 5 different Nas.
1th and 2th –Groupe Finot
3th and 6th – Jules Marin (these are the boats made of wood composite and with chines).
4th- Pierre Rolland
5th – Marc Lombard
7th- Owen Clarke
Owen Clarke is the only one that is not French. He is British...
Thanks, Vega! Just the sort of info that's interesting to me!
A minor correction, though. The firm of Owen Clarke is the team of Merfyn Owen and Allen Clarke. "He" is they.
Well, there is so much information on this thread about 40class boats that I would like to make it the "Forum" thread about these boats. It makes no sense to open a new thread about it.
I will ask the Administrator if he can move this thread to "Sailboats" and change the title to just: "40class boats".
About new 40class boats, there is an interesting one, the first American one.
Is a Rodger Martin design and it is a beauty.
The boat is under construction and it is going to race the “Global Ocean Challenge” with an all American team:
“Gwaihir Racing - a Rhode Island based Class 40 campaign
Stuart Williams and Jared Lazor ...have formally entered the Global Ocean Challenge in the double-handed Class 40 division. With the interest in short-handed sailing at an all time high, both sailors yearned to compete in one of the existing around-the-world races but found themselves locked out both financially and technically. Daunted by the high budget and technical extremes of a modern Open 60 around-the-world campaign, Williams and Lazor thought that their dream of a shorthanded circumnavigation was over.
The Global Ocean Challenge, however, is all about affordability and no sooner had race organizers Josh Hall and Brian Hancock announced the event, they set about preparing their entry.
....The next person that they contacted was local yacht designer Rodger Martin. Martin is not only a neighbor and friend, he is also a naval architect of great note having designed some highly successful boats for earlier solo around the world races including Airco Distributor aboard which Mike Plant won Class 2 of the 1987 BOC/Around Alone race.
Martin has done some extensive computer hull testing in a variety of weather conditions and feels sure that the design will match, if not beat, the fastest Class 40s already sailing. Construction began in December at Al Fresco Composites, also in Rhode Island, under the keen and critical supervision of Ted Brown and Stewart Wiley.”
http://www.globaloceanchallenge.com/?q=en/2187
http://www.rodgermartindesign.com/portfolio.htm
DGreenwood
01-17-2007, 06:59 PM
A lot of winches compared to the others???
SailDesign
01-19-2007, 10:17 AM
A lot of winches compared to the others???
Have to keep the skipper occupied somehow.
All those rebuilds should keep him busy. :)
A lot of winches compared to the others???
Yes you are right, but it makes some sense:
The Boom traveler is on the back of the boat and to move the traveler they use the back winches. The ones on the roof are for reefing and rodkick. For the headsails they end up with only one winch on each side.
Take a look at this picture. The back winches are occupied with the traveler.
DGreenwood
01-19-2007, 12:33 PM
Most of the 40s I looked at at the RduR had 5...plenty.
Although I must admit to thinking that there were a lot of clutches on them, 8 seems a little indulgent.
Skips preference, I am sure.
Another new design, and a nice one:cool: , by another French NA, Tanguy le Bihan from TLB.
The 40class TLB:
http://www.architecturenavale.fr/content.php?id=9
http://www.architecture-navale.fr/medias/7/11/1169805978.pdf
Chris Ostlind
02-20-2007, 02:43 PM
I agree, Vega... another interesting design within a very interesting class.
My single and very purposeful complaint is; When are the French boat design guys going to understand that there is a whole, big world of potential readers of their websites, as well as potential buyers of their products... if they would only provide a proper English alternate page for reading?
Let's face it, Babelfish translation just absolutely sucks when it comes to nuanced conversion of the French sailing language. My French speaking daughter is away at college playing soccer. She gets decidedly irritated with me whenever I ask her to create a nice translation of a group of web pages. So, I am unable to understand the progress of the current, state of the art in design as it applies to these boats.
So, here I am, stupidly drifting away with my big background in the German language and not one whit of an idea as to the beautiful complexity of the French design firms and their work.
OK, rant over.
Chris
Chris, you have only to ask:) . Have another nice one, but this time with a site with a proper English version.
This one is special because is co-designed by a forum member, Charlythewind (designed by Charles Bertrand/Bernard Mallaret) .
It is also different, because it is originally designed not as a racer, but as a fast offshore cruiser. The racers will follow.
“Designed for the Carène Shipyard in Marseille as a new version of its existing Zou40' , this yacht has a very dual purpose design brief.
Originally designated to fast offshore cruises, it must also be able to perform well in the Class 40 racing events and be efficient enough so that fully racing orientated yachts can be built on the same design base.
With a beam of 4.20m this is a moderate design in the scope of the class 40, but the chines running to the stern and the 750 l . of water ballast on each side are there to provide the required stability. Stability and upwind efficiency are also enhanced by a deep lifting keel, holding the bulb at 3m when down and allowing a reduced draught of 1.50m when up”.
A very good looking boat with a very nice interior.
Rough, pay attention to this one. The Zou40 is an already existing boat. This one is an actualization, the Zou 40.2.and is a lot nicer.
The lifting keel is an huge advantage for cruising and this boat has a standing height (1.9m), a thing that the other class 40 don’t have, unless you are not big;) .
http://www.fox-tech.co.uk/projects.html
http://www.courseaularge.com/index.php?t=infos_pro&i=6107
http://zou40.com/zou/
And another one.
Hey guys, this one is an Australian one;) , designed by Paul Bury.
http://www.bury.com.au/images/16_01_large.jpg
http://www.bury.com.au/16_class40.html
More news: on the 2007 Fastnet there will be 25 to 30 Class40 yachts racing.:P
And another nice one, this one designed by Jérome Renous and in construction at TECHNOLOGIE MARINE. It is the "TOMAHAWK 40" and it will race the Fastnet and Transat Jacques Vabre 2007.
This one also has a retractable keel (1.7/3.0).
http://www.class40.com/Class-40-voile/actualites/Tomahawk%2040%20by%20Jérome%20Renous/7/74.html
DGreenwood
02-20-2007, 04:22 PM
Oh My I do like that one!
Does the text say anything about the keel fin?
It seems to angle aft
It says only that it is has retractable keel with an integral well (from the bottom to the deck) and the fins are also retractable, at the contact of any obstacle.
The boat is made of plywood and epoxy with a carbon mast.
The boat designer is an old racer that used to design his own boats in the mini class. The boat is for Benoit Hochart but the designer is going to make with him the Transat Jaques Vabres (a duo Transat) certainly only to have a feedback of how the boat sails:D (and I bet that he is going to have a lot of fun).
http://www.nautique-sevres.org/actualites1/20061020-JacquesVabre2007/plaquetteHochart/page4.pdf
http://www.nautique-sevres.org/actualites1/20061020-JacquesVabre2007/plaquetteHochart/page3.pdf
Another one, designed by Jean-Baptiste Dejeanty and Soizic Dubois for Artech.
http://www.artech-web.com/AYDB/Artech40.htm
The AXION 40, a Luc Bouvet Design, made in small series by Lion-Yachts, in Riga, Lethonie.
http://www.lucbouvet.com/
http://www.lion-yacht.com/php/products.php
http://www.lion-yacht.com/photoalbum/album.php?qfile=1&sfile=3
http://www.lion-yacht.com/downloads/AxionClass40en.pdf
Another British one, the Rodgers class40, designed by Simon Rodgers.
Two boats are being built at CMI in Thailand in Epoxy and e-glass with a foam core.
http://www.rogersyachtdesign.co.uk/news_press.php?RECORD_KEY%28hotnews%29=news_code&news_code(hotnews)=31
http://www.rogersyachtdesign.com/
Guillermo
02-24-2007, 03:00 AM
A Class 40 precursor: Black Sea 40 "Wind of Change" from Stephen C. Baker (our fellow member in these forums 'SailDesign' ;) ), back in 1995.
http://members.aol.com/Saildesign/private/scbweb/bs40.htm
http://www.boats.com/content/default_detail.jsp?contentid=1029
A Class 40 precursor: Black Sea 40 "Wind of Change" from Stephen C. Baker (our fellow member in these forums 'SailDesign' ;) ), back in 1995.
http://members.aol.com/Saildesign/private/scbweb/bs40.htm
http://www.boats.com/content/default_detail.jsp?contentid=1029
It is a beautiful boat, but it is an Open 40 (as many on that class). Open 40s are Open boats and were (and are) very expensive. This one has a canting keel (very innovative for 1995), foils and is a lot lighter than a 40class boat and hugely more expensive.
The Class40 has to do with price contention and good performance with small money. They can not be made with exotic (expensive) materials, they can not have foils or canting keels and because they are made with inexpensive materials, they are heavier and not as fast as an Open 40.
Contrary to the 40class, the Open40 class, that was meant also as an introductory class for the Open50s (and later 60s), was not a big success. Boats were (and are) very expensive for the job.
This is the one designed by Berret-Racoupeau and built by Marsaudon Composites.
http://www.marsaudon-composites.com/pg004.html
SailDesign
02-24-2007, 10:52 PM
Guillermo, thanks for the plug! That particular boat (Vik's) went on to become the fastest (and only!) Scandinavian around the world non-stop, under the hand of Jan Moeller, and was then sold to Nico Budel who took her across in the last OSTAR as "Hayai", winning his class. Admittedly, he was the only finisher in his class, but the field was impressive at the start (10-plus if I remember rightly)
Steve "semi-retired, working for an old friend in the boat-building business"
That particular boat (Vik's) went on to become the fastest (and only!) Scandinavian around the world non-stop, under the hand of Jan Moeller, and was then sold to Nico Budel who took her across in the last OSTAR as "Hayai", winning his class.
I am going to make a small detour around the subject of this thread, but I am curious and I guess that I won’t be the only one.
Stephen, that boat has circumnavigated and has been sailing extensively and for what you have said, it looks to me that it is has been a very reliably race boat, although having an almost pioneering canting keel.
The canting keel is still the one from the original design? You got it right the first time or has it been changed or modified?
SailDesign
02-25-2007, 09:24 AM
Vega,
Yes, it is the original keel and system, although it has had a couple of "tweaks" since new. The biggest tweak was to push the keel further each way (increasing RM) when Jan took her over, since he did not have to abide by the 10-degree rule for his trip. All this needed was to raise the trunnion pin a bit, although the raising required considerably more effort than the telling about it :)
I wish I could take credit for the canting system, but all of the engineering on the boat was done by Dirk Kramers, one of the best engineers I have ever worked with, even thuogh I STILL complain about his stuff now that I am somewhat responsible for getting some of it built.
Steve
This 40class is the one designed by Sam Manuard. Sam is one of the top Mini designers (his boats have wined the 6.5 Transat in 2005 and have wined the first leg in 2003).
A boat is being made in Canada for Eric Tabardel and Damien De Pas (Quebec).
http://sam.manuard.free.fr/index.htm
The one designed by Olivier Philippot for Cécile Poujol.
This is the EXOCET 40’ and is designed by Elie Canivenc. Elie is a ocean racing sailor (from the minis) that has graduated in Naval Architecture (Southampton). A boat is in construction and will race the Jaques-Fabre Transat. The hull have chines and is made of a Glass/Airex/epoxy sandwish. All pieces are made by infusion.
The boat can have an optional lifting keel, with a draft of 3m / 0,7m.
http://www.elie-canivenc.com/realisations/exocet40.pdf
http://www.elie-canivenc.com/realisations/exocet40.htm
http://www.elie-canivenc.com/realisations.htm
A slightly modified OCD 40class cruiser-racer is being produced by the Clarence shipyard in Cowes , Isle of Wight.
Six boats sold, one of them to Norway. The boat is called Express 40.
http://www.express40.com/index.htm
http://www.express40.com/Express_40_Brochure_and_prices_V9.PDF
This 40class is a very special one. It was built and designed as a project by the students of Ismans, an engineering school specialized in materials and advanced mechanics. The first drawings were made by Olivier Gouard, a NA that had studied in the school. The project was directed by François Angoulvant, teacher at the school and a skipper. He raced the boat in the Route du Rhum.
http://ismans.univ-lemans.fr/
http://www.sabrosa.fr/fiche_bateau.php?id=3
Some videos with 40class boats;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Z8OdwV-o5Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqhE_6NVYdQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=704sPpU8DGE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHQjFn8BNSA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68oEmvHdpBQ&mode=related&search=
Polarity
04-16-2007, 01:50 PM
A slightly modified OCD 40class cruiser-racer is being produced by the Clarence shipyard in Cowes , Isle of Wight.
Six boats sold, one of them to Norway. The boat is called Express 40.
http://www.express40.com/index.htm
http://www.express40.com/Express_40_Brochure_and_prices_V9.PDF
Hi
The Express 40 is my project so any questions feel free to ask!
I raced my Open 50 in the TJV 2005 (France-Brazil) and wanted a competitive Class 40 for the next big race, only option was a custom build or a Pogo - with an 18 month waiting list. Found out everyone I knew was interested in much the same thing so I started the Express 40 project having Owen Clarke modify their existing Class 40 with a bigger coach roof (for more protection under a cuddy), transom hung rudders, a re-engineered laminate spec by SP, and a different deck and interior arrangement. We are infusing almost all of the boat. Should build 10-12 boats this year.
We have moved to West Cowes to a bigger shed and the first boat is out of the mould with the 2nd just starting lay up. Lots of pics in the Gallery www.express40.com/coppermine/index.php (http://express40.com/coppermine/index.php)
Cheers !
Paul
www.express40.com (http://www.express40.com)
Stephen Ditmore
04-16-2007, 02:53 PM
Polarity Paul! You blast from the past! Sounds like someone stopped logging into BoatDesign.net long enough to go sailing!
Pretty different from the Brewer design you were talking about in the early days of this forum.
So you left Spain (just when everyone else is going there)?
Hi
The Express 40 is my project.. Should build 10-12 boats this year.
We have moved to West Cowes to a bigger shed and the first boat is out of the mould with the 2nd just starting lay up. Lots of pics in the Gallery www.express40.com/coppermine/index.php (http://express40.com/coppermine/index.php)
www.express40.com (http://www.express40.com)
Congratulations, it looks great.;)
Paulo
Polarity
04-20-2007, 07:40 PM
Polarity Paul! You blast from the past! Sounds like someone stopped logging into BoatDesign.net long enough to go sailing!
Pretty different from the Brewer design you were talking about in the early days of this forum.
So you left Spain (just when everyone else is going there)?
Hey Stephen, ..well it is nice to be recognised! After I bought that Open 50 I was lost to light, fast, uncomfortable solo boats...
Pretty typical about Spain, I lived in Barcelona for 6 years and not a word about solo sailing/racing. I leave, and 2 months later Ellen Macarthur moves into to the office upstairs.
Thanks Paulo, its a really interesting project and the Class is great, such a massive amount of interest. It has taken off already in France but we are seeing huge interest from the UK, Norway, Holland and even the USA.
Incidentaly talking about the RCD that was mentioned - we are going through it being just over 12m is expensive. Though we could duck it as a race boat, for our customers having it means easier resale, insurance and we can even get it financed. It's interesting challenge to combine it with being CAT 0 as well!
Cheers !
Paul
Paul Scott
04-21-2007, 11:19 PM
If only my 40 footer were heavier, shallower, and wider. Sigh. And we were going openish 40ish 50ish 60ish when we designed her. What a difference a few years makes.
Paul
Guillermo
04-22-2007, 05:26 PM
Incidentaly talking about the RCD that was mentioned - we are going through it...
Would you mind sharing with us the STIX calculations and the load conditions and correpondent stability curves used to that end? I'd very much appreciate that.
Cheers.
"Matondo-Congo" (La Route de l'Equateur), it's a race only for 40class boats. It begins in Marseille and goes to Congo.
Last day the four boats that are leading the race made more than 300 NM in 24h.
http://www.matondo-congo.com/course/parcours.php
...and on this race it is not a Pogo that leads (most of them are Pogos), but a Jumbo 40, the boat designed by Pierre Roland (post17).
3 diferent class40 on the first three places.
First, way ahead, is a Jumbo, second a Pogo and third an Akilaria. The last one is going faster than anybody and is catching the Pogo. Most of the boats on that race are Pogos.
http://www.matondo-congo.com/
Well, the first 5 have already finished and this time the first one was not a Pogo. The first Pogo arrived only in 3rd place.
1st- Philippe Fiston– Jumbo 40 (Pierre Roland)
2nd- Florence Arthaud – Akilaria 40 (Marc Lombard)
3rd- Arnaud Aubry – Pogo 40 (Finot)
4 and 5th Pogo 40.
Take a look at this new one, by Guy Ribadeu.
I find it beautiful and it is an aluminium boat. You have on this class wooden boats, fiberglass boats and now also aluminium boats... :cool:
Another race, another winner and a brand new 40 class boat on the second position.
First boat to arrive was Apart-City, a wooden boat with chines, designed by Julien Marin.
Eight months ago I had said on another thread:
“Well, I have picked up this old discussion about chines and speed because in this year edition of “La Route du Rhum” (begins tomorrow – 29/10), there are two sisterships (design by Jules Marin) that have chines (and are made of wood), on the new 40 class.
Fact is that Jules says that the chines help the boat to plan faster.
I am very curious about the performance of these boats, compared with the other 23 class 40 boats.
…..
About performance, even if the boat is not faster (we have to wait to see) it’s obviously a very fast boat…So I guess that, if well made, chines have not any noticeable influence in the performance of a cruising boat. Of course, here the well made assumes a huge Importance.
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=8727&page=18
Well, on this one , From Sables (France) to Madeira (Portugal) and back, the chined boat really proved its speed. First to arrive to Madeira (over 10k of average speed), first back to Les Sables.
Second one on the finishing line, a completely new boat, beautiful boat, designed by Axel de Beaufort and the Nacira Group . Arrived only 57 minutes after the first one.
On third came Azawakh III a Jumbo 40 designed by Pierre Roland and on 4th place, Merci les amies, designed by Olivier Philippot (also a boat with chines) . First Pogo (the boat that has dominated the Route du Rhum), only comes on 6th place.
Things look interesting and Class 40 is one of the most interesting in what regards boat design, with lots of competition on that level.
http://www.julienmarin.com/gb_architecture.asp
http://www.nacira-design.com/
http://www.lnm-boats.com/pages3/be.html
Paul Scott
07-21-2007, 01:30 PM
I hope this is the place to post this, but on a link I have lost, NASA was very interested in what are, in effect, chines for fuselages. The upshot of the approach was what they called 'flow management'. I like chines, and have become interested in 1) the differences between knife edge chines to small radius chines, and 2) what differences different angle chines make. These two concerns come from my dinghy and windsurfing days, where chines varied from 50 degrees up to 120 degrees or so. Chines seem to beg the question of flow across the chine angle, which seems in turn to beg the question of reynolds numbers across chines (and therefore turbulance), esp. as seen in different speed regimes (sub planing speed in particular). But how do you measure the speed of flow laterally across parts of the bottom of a hull, much less how much turbulance (or induced drag?) is created 'downstream' of the chine? How much 'lateral downstream flow' does a chine permit? The Alpha 'Race' sailboard approached this problem with acute angle chines, which seemed to work well upwind as lateral plane in sub planing conditions, as well as giving clean release and lift in planing conditions.
It was hard to observe what kind of turbulance they created sideways though. As far as I could tell, there was very little, mainly towards the stern where the hull tucked back towards a pintail stern. 110's are interesting too, as far a chines go. Although my OK Dinghy didn't like chop at all.
Paul
DGreenwood
07-21-2007, 05:55 PM
Yesterday I was aboard one of the MC-TEC Atalaria, Marc Lombard design class 40s. Quite impressive! It was a lot of race boat for the money. The layout seemed really well thought out and the construction was nicely executed.
Another note: I heard that the TJV is up to 40 Class 40 entrants. Soon they will have to start limiting them.
Yesterday I was aboard one of the MC-TEC Atalaria, Marc Lombard design class 40s. Quite impressive! It was a lot of race boat for the money. The layout seemed really well thought out and the construction was nicely executed.
I agree, except with the name of the boat (Akilaria):P
I have been also inside that one and I was impressed too. And it seems that there are a lot of people impressed with that boat: They have already made 10 racing boats and another one is to be delivered next moth.
I was also impressed with the plans for the cruising version, but it seems that the demand for the racing version is so big that they didn’t have time to develop the cruising version. I am very curious about that version, it looks a lot better than the one from the Pogo.
DGreenwood
07-24-2007, 01:33 PM
Thanks for correcting my typo:confused:
For me the racing one would work fine for cruising.
The Pogo did not impress me like these did.
How do they do it? Really inexpensive!
The Pogo is less expensive but the Akilaria seems of another quality to me.
They can have those prices because they manufacture the boat in Tunisia, were the labor is inexpensive. They don’t subcontract, they are living there, so they can maintain the quality.
I thought that I had posted on this thread about Akilaria, but I was mistaken.
As DG has pointed out, this is the Marc Lombard 40class boat and it is one of the best.
Take a look at Marc Lombard’s site and at his designs. In my opinion he is a great designer, with lots of successful racing boats but also with great cruising boats. Fast ones and unusual ones like the RM1200 or the Opium 39. More recently, one of the big French manufacturers (Jeanneau) relied on him for the renewal of the Sun Odissey line and of course the new boats are fast and good looking (I like the 39i a lot).
The Akilaria is not only a good and fast boat (several second places) but also a very beautiful one, at least to my eyes…. take a look at the pictures:
http://www.marclombard.com/
I like chines, and have become interested in 1) the differences between knife edge chines to small radius chines, and 2) what differences different angle chines make. These two concerns come from my dinghy and windsurfing days, where chines varied from 50 degrees up to 120 degrees or so. Chines seem to beg the question of flow across the chine angle, which seems in turn to beg the question of reynolds numbers across chines (and therefore turbulance), esp. as seen in different speed regimes (sub planing speed in particular). But how do you measure the speed of flow laterally across parts of the bottom of a hull, much less how much turbulance (or induced drag?) is created 'downstream' of the chine? How much 'lateral downstream flow' does a chine permit? The Alpha 'Race' sailboard approached this problem with acute angle chines, which seemed to work well upwind as lateral plane in sub planing conditions, as well as giving clean release and lift in planing conditions.
It was hard to observe what kind of turbulance they created sideways though. As far as I could tell, there was very little, mainly towards the stern where the hull tucked back towards a pintail stern. 110's are interesting too, as far a chines go. Although my OK Dinghy didn't like chop at all.
Paul
Paul, sorry for the delay, buy I was hoping someone could reply to you in more technical terms. I can’t.
What I can tell you is that chines are being used more and more by the designers of the 40 class boats, minis and Open 60’s. That means they think they give racing boats an edge and I believe they know what they are doing.
I have exchanged some emails with Julien Marin about one of his designs, a planning cruising boat that shares the pedigree of his 40class boat. He was one of the first to bet heavily on racing chined boats (bet is the wrong word). Apart-city, the winner of the last race is one of his designs. He says that the main advantages have to do with the speed at witch the boat starts to plan. He says that with the chined hull the boat can plan at 11k, while without chines that would only happen at 12k.
He must be right cause he is winning races, but don’t ask me why;)
Paul B
08-04-2007, 10:56 PM
The first Class 40 (Pogo) has arrived in the US.
Today the owner was nice enough to show me around on the boat. It seems quite nice, not quite the type of boat or interior layout I prefer, but it sounds like it will fit his needs perfectly.
I have not been around on this forum, but I want to share this article with the guys that like fast boats.
Look at what the staff of the BlueWater sailing mag, a conservative USA blue water sailing magazine said when they tried an Akilaria :
“Class40s are not for the faint of heart. They are for sailors who lust after raw speed in boats that can be singlehanded or doublehanded across oceans or, for that matter, around the world. We can only hope that Class 40s catch on in the U.S. with the same fever that has swept Europe.”
More here:
http://www.bwsailing.com/articles/2007/nov/akilaria-class-40/
Paul Scott
01-16-2008, 10:35 PM
Every time I hear "15 knots, wow!", I think one thing: buy a windsurfer.
Jeez.
Paul
Keith.Macdonald
09-13-2008, 07:32 AM
Not quite a Class 40 boat, but rafted up next to us in Dartmouth two weeks ago was a new Pogo 10.5, on a maiden voyage from Brest. My daughter did them a favour and gave them a ride ashore in our tender, in return they invited us on board to share a bottle of wine. They'd been travelling at 16 kts on the way across, and this is a Pogo "cruising" boat!
See http://www.pogostructures.com/?m=7&s=1&l=en
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