America's Cup Nationality Rules

[Willallison]

Well, it's all over. The landlocked Swiss have embarrased the island nation of NZ to win the AC 5-0.:eek:

Or have they? Given that a fair proportion of the crew were Kiwi's, Aussies and heavens knows what else - who really won the Cup?

In a statement following the win, the swiss chap who paid for it all (sorry can't remember his name - bet he's dissapointed!!;) ) said that he'd like to change the rules to eliminate any nationality requirement for crew / designer / builder etc. This would allow boys with lots of money to go around the world and buy the very best people and equipment - making the cup more like Formula 1.

The Kiwi's on the other hand are outraged that the cup has "been stolen by one of their own".
They maintain that a Swiss team should be just that. It's a nations Cup after all, so surely at the very least, most of the crew should come from the country they're representing.

What do you think?....

[Pieetry]

i say they make crews have to live in the country they're competing for for atleast lets say 6 years, that will keep them from switching every reggeta
same for the designers, but i think all the boats plans should be open after then end of the series
the builders should be from any nation because some nations just dont have the yards for somthing that size

[Polarity]

and the result is:

Nationality and residency requirements for personnel have been completely
dropped from the Protocol. But individuals once aligned with one syndicate
may not work for another syndicate.

http://www.scuttlebutteurope.com/


The new protocol greatly relaxes the nationality rules as much for the members of the team as for who is constructing the boat. "The goal of simplifying the nationality rule is to diminish the costs and thereby make the competition accessible to more challengers," declared Michel Bonnefous.

http://www.alinghi.com/en/news/index.php?dest=146

Paul

[Willallison]

Wow! They didn't allow much time for debate on that issue, did they!?!

Does this mean that those who sailed aboard Alinghi, but who are not Swiss, are never again able to sail for their country of origin....?

[brian eiland]

....excerpt....
In a statement following the win, the swiss chap who paid for it all (sorry can't remember his name - bet he's dissapointed!!;) ) said that he'd like to change the rules to eliminate any nationality requirement for crew / designer / builder etc. This would allow boys with lots of money to go around the world and buy the very best people and equipment - making the cup more like Formula 1.

Wow! They didn't allow much time for debate on that issue, did they[

While considering the above statements this latest 'quick fix' to the new rules is interesting; that bars Coutts from racing this next year. I think its just another case of America's Cup bulls--t, that has them spending more time with legal maneuvering amoung lawyers and court rooms than out on the water competing amoung the top SAILORS.

_____________________
Curmudgeon's Comment: Late last week a change was made to the America's Cup protocol (clause 13.12) which now makes it impossible for Russell to sail
for any AC syndicate other than Alinghi. Coincidence? Sure!
______________________
COMMENTARY
These billionaires play tough. (Ernesto) Bertarelli was already on record
that he will act to block any move by Coutts to work for a rival team and
boasted earlier that he had "drafted my contracts a little better than Team
New Zealand." He said in his most recent statement that he will "continue
to do whatever is necessary to protect Team Alinghi."

Could Coutts take the matter to a civil court? He could, of course, and he
might have a case. Can a contract be binding if it is subject to
retroactive changes not agreed to by both parties? But then there's this
arcane business of the Protocol and the unique nature of operations in the
America's Cup. If the results of taking the America's Cup Deed of Gift to
court over the 1988 Big Boat/ Catamaran fiasco are any indication of what
to expect, let's hope for anything, and I mean anything, else. - Kimball
Livingston, Sail magazine, www.sailmagazine.com/news/NEWS/
____________________
COUTTS SACKED
The schism has become a sacking: last night the Swiss America's Cup
holders, Alinghi, fired Russell Coutts, the New Zealander who lead them to
victory 16 months ago. Coutts was fired for "repeated violations of his
duties" by Ernesto Bertarelli, the Swiss biotech billionaire who had hired
him away from Team New Zealand in May 2000 after a comparable
disenchantment with the directors behind the Kiwi Cup defenders.

The gulf between Coutts, the most successful America's Cup skipper in the
153-year history of the event, opened up last year but erupted publicly
only during last month's UBS Trophy regatta in Newport, Rhode Island. This
was when it became known that lawyers were trying to negotiate a settlement
between Coutts and Bertarelli. Coutts has not steered SUI 64 since
Alinghi's crushing America's Cup win in March 2003 and the Swiss cited his
reluctance to take the helm in Newport, and previously at the Moet Cup in
San Francisco last September as a violation of his employment contract.

The New Zealander has never fully explained the root cause of his
disaffection with Bertarelli, a man with whom he appeared to have forged a
deep friendship. But a source familiar with Coutts' contract said that
helming was a minor responsibility of his duties. It is also believed that
because of his previous experience at Team New Zealand, where he was to
lead the defense but found that the trustees not only retained ultimate
power but had undermined his position in TV rights negotiations in New
York, Coutts had secured certain undertakings about influence and
responsibility on all matters relating to the 2007 Cup and certainly not
confined solely to raising sponsorship for and managing the sailing team.

The Alinghi statement also went on to say: "Also particularly damaging was
Russell Coutts' undisclosed involvement in the planning and development of
a new race series, a commitment incompatible with his responsibilities and
duties." This refers to a new event Coutts is planning with American former
America's Cup sailor Paul Cayard. Coutts is likely to take issue with what
Alinghi is saying, having informed Bertarelli's lawyers of his talks with
Cayard a while ago. "In his capacity as a member of the board of Alinghi
Holdings, Russell Coutts maneuvered himself into an inextricable conflict
of interest," continued the statement put out by the Swiss. - Excerpts from
a story by Tim Jeffery in the Daily Telegraph, full story:
http://tinyurl.com/3ojw2

[brian eiland]

* From Charles-Justin Nichols, avocet, Canada (re changes to the America's Cup protocol):
My formation as a lawyer makes me very sensible about backdated rules. The modern justice systems rarely allow laws to be retrospective. The reason is simple: you don't want to be penalized for an act that was legal possible at the time it happened.

The recent modification is doing exactly that, and is visibly done towards one individual, which is even more condemnable under constitutional law. Alinghi has just undone what was to be its greatest contribution to the Cup, being making it possible for sailors and designs to find new homes in other lands. It was a great thought, but the way the Swiss act when their personal interest is at play saddens me. It is very sad to see that '86 feet high' spoiled attitude reign on the America's Cup. I'm left to wish the best of luck to the Cayard-Coutts Initiative.

They are right in that the excitement should be on the water!

[trouty]

Take Bens winged keel and whack em all round the ears with it - of course it's sposed to be a 'nations cup'! Why do you think we have the boxing kangaroo for goodness sakes!

Bring back the good ol days!

Cheers!

[Corpus Skipper]

Take Bens winged keel and whack em all round the ears with it - of course it's sposed to be a 'nations cup'!
I agree wholeheartedly. If it's not for the team representing their own nation, what's the point? It's the same as allowing pro atheletes to compete in the Olympics. It becomes a personal ego trip instead of a competition, and the most dollars win. Sad. :(

[brian eiland]

There's more commentary on this subject at sailingscuttlebutt.com today, 28 July 04:
http://www.netaddress.com/tpl/Door/423PBCNNU/Welcome

[brian eiland]

..... that has them spending more time with legal maneuvering amoung lawyers and court rooms than out on the water competing amoung the top SAILORS.

...more comments submitted to scuttlebutt...

* From Skip Doyle: The America's Cup - lawyers love it!

* From John Glynn: If I were Alinghi and Oracle's sponsors (UBS, BMW, etc.)
boy would I be upset at this point. I'd be asking out of my contracts.
Bertarelli and Ellison may be the bosses, but they need to remember that
they have signed on others to help fund the program, to whom they have a
responsibility to provide maximum return. Coutts is an icon in the
America's Cup world. Without him, many will tune out, and the America's Cup
will just become another Match Race event, and we all know how much
attention those get. But I suspect Bertarelli does not care (and apparently
neither does Larry Ellison since he bought into the protocol change). Let
Bertarelli and Ellison have their ego trips in 2007, but UBS, BMW, and
others should be demanding their money back, and these two billionaires are
clearly not looking out for the best interests of the event and sailing in
general. First Ellison benches Cayard, so now Bertarelli one-ups him and
tosses Coutts. What a joke the America's Cup has become.


* From Ian Bruce: What an extraordinary state of affairs! Arguably the two
best helmsmen in the world have put out to pasture by arguably the two top
teams in the America's Cup game. Firstly it was Paul Cayard being sent to
the beach. That was a pity for all of us watching because the Farr boat was
clearly faster up and down the course. If you have any doubt, run your
Virtual Spectator coverage of the races at 10x speed and you will be
amazed. As a result, we watched a superior boat with an inferior team go
down to defeat. Now it's Coutts' turn.

Notwithstanding any of the altruistic claims of the syndicates that float
by from time to time, the America's Cup is driven by the egos of the
owners. Trouble is, the skippers have their egos too. He with the money wins.


* From Pete Sherwood: Read between the lines people... Bertarelli is a very
smart individual. He would have realized long ago that he was pushing
Coutt's buttons and the chance of a split highly likely. One has to wonder
if Bertarelli is merely paving the way to introduce an owner driver rule
for the next cup, a move that the challenger of record would certainly
support. Scary times for the AC.


* From Skip Doyle: The America's Cup - lawyers love it!

[brian eiland]

some more comments from sailingscuttlebutt:

* From Angus Macaulay: What a shame... Bertarelli and Ellison think they
are the stars. After all the promises of how Alinghi and Oracle would make
the Cup a world class sporting event, we are left with two egotistical
billionaires who think the event is about them and their army of lawyers
and bankers. Let's dream for a minute that the protocol had been revised to
reign in spending to enable a bigger, more competitive event. And then
imagine a spirited challenger series where Oracle wins 4-3 to advance to
the cup behind the superb driving of Paul Cayard... a world class sailor
who has experienced incredible success in all facets of sailing except the
Cup Finals. They face the intimidating Alinghi team in the finals, lead by
Russell Coutts who has yet to loose a race in the last three Cup's. The
series ends with Cayard defeating the best in the game 4-3 to bring the Cup
back to the United States... America's Cup 2011 in San Francisco led by the
hometown hero...

Oh well... back to the legal battles and the various tactics Russell will
have to undertake to counter the most recent changes in the protocol. By
the way, if Bertarelli needs to change the protocol after the fact to keep
Russell out of the game, what will stop him from making other adjustments
if he feels a challenger truly poses a threat to his team?


* From Mike Dailey: Seems sad, that two guys with so much money and power
(Bertarelli and Ellison), that could do so much for the Americas cup and
sailing in general, have to conspire between them, to keep one lone Kiwi
boat driver out of their sand box. The irony is that they can only keep him
out of the 2007 Cup. And surely by the time the next Americas cup rolls
around again, there will be any number of syndicates that would be all to
happy to be able to use him against either Oracle or Alinghi. Does the
expression "shooting yourself in the foot" apply here?


* From Rand Milton: I have been following with dismay the status of Russell
Coutts. For Mr. Bertarelli and Mr. Ellison to conspire and come up with a
way to preclude arguably the finest America's Cup sailor in history the
opportunity to compete in the next America's Cup is outright shameful and
adds another bad chapter to the history of the America's Cup. Not only does
it hurt Russell Coutts, but it seriously harms our sport's image and denies
the many fans of the America's Cup the opportunity to see one the best
skippers ever to sail in the America's Cup. I suggest that Mr. Bertarelli
and Mr. Ellison put their differences aside and do the right thing by
lifting the restrictions on Russell Coutts.

[sorenfdk]

Mr. Bertarelli and Mr. Ellison are behaving just like the spoilt rich kids that they are!

But alas there's not much average sailors can do except for this:

Write the boards of their companies and the boards and CEOs of their sponsors and tell them that you will never ever buy their products again if this childishness doesn't stop right now! If only a few people does this, they just laugh at them, but if it's just a little more than a few and the media starts to report about it...

I read somewhere (I think it was in a Scuttlebutt newsletter) that Mr. Bertarelli personally has loaned the New Zealand Challenge 10 million £. One can only guess why, but maybe, just maybe there's a connection with the fact that the Kiwis have made it public that Russell Coutts is not a theme for them...

Let them have their AC to play with, and let the rest of us turn our interest to other things, perhaps the thing Paul Cayard and Russell Coutts are cooking up?

I have always wondered why the AC yachts have to be so big (and therefore expensive)? Are they any faster than other yachts? No. Is the sailing more exciting to watch? No.

Here's an idea: Why don't we all join forces and cooperate on a design for the future Americas Cup just like some of you did with Option One? If we come up with something interesting (sorry - WHEN we come up with something interesting), we could offer it for free to anyone interested (Mr. Bertarelli and Mr. Ellison would have to pay REALLY big bucks, though!)

OK - I just had dinner, and maybe it's the wine talking, but still...

[safewalrus]

The best way forward I believe is that anybody who has ever been ON a boat/ship/submarine/dredger or garbage scow and or has any knowledge whatsoever about the above named vessels should autopmatically be disqualified from ever taking part or having anything whatsoever to do with the America's Cup now or in the future!

What's that?

That's the situation at the moment!

Oh sorry I spoke!!

[longliner45]

boats and crew should be from the same country,and reside in it for some time,,if not they are no different then mercinarys,,,,,,,but on the other hand a man should be paid for his skills,,,longliner

[PAR]

The original post was in 2003 after the last AC race was completed.

The NBA regularly uses foreign nationals in their teams, so do most of the other major sporting enterprises in this country. These other sporting events can represent the USA in games overseas. Why should the AC boats be limited to a crews nationality?

The same thing that drives young African men to join the NBA, is the same thing that drives the best sailors to other countries. It's the best pay check and who could blame them for that?

If someone paid you ten times what you were getting here, for the same job, how long would have to think about moving over there?

Maybe there should be something in the rules, about the crew being required to have lived in the country they represent, but currently there isn't.

[safewalrus]

Got it in a nutshell Par - well said, totally agree, not that you'd get me to admit it of course!

[longliner45]

are the Americas cup likle the olympics? or is it the other way around ,,guns for hire? if it is like the olympics ,then they should be from national oregine if not then let democracy take its toll..hired guns to the highest bidder,

[PAR]

The Olympics also have a similar problem, though a bit more complicated. A competitor can train in the country that will provide the best opportunity to get world class status, use the best equipment, programs or funding, then can switch to the country they really wanted to earn the gold for in the first place. An example would be the top woman's singles skater trains in this country, with defected former soviet country trainers, who happen to be working with the USA (or formerly did) figure skating team, then represent the country of their heart's desire come Olympic games time.

Professionals have long been involved in the competitions, initially from the former soviet countries, but now every one is doing it. These "amateur" games haven't been this way for a long time. Remember the "Dream Team" of killer all pro basketball players we started using a couple of decades ago? Do you think they do it for the love of the game? Maybe the idea of representing their fine country, with a noble patriotic gesture? Nope, more likely that not, the huge commercial endorsement deals, that come with that level of media exposure, bring the Magic Johnson's (who was on the first USA Dream Team) out of the wood work.

And it's free enterprise, not democracy that makes these changes. Unless you ask a communist or strict socialist, who then call it capitalistic fodder, usually followed by a long winded explanation, on the down fall of western society, as a result of such practices.

[longliner45]

yes free enterprise! that is what makes the world go round,

[Guillermo]

No! It's love...! ;)