Boating and cost

[SWG]

Well, I'm a bit of a newbie to this sort of thing. I have been canoeing before quite a few times, but I’ve been wanting to go a bit farther.

But before I get to that there are some things I think I need to know. Based on what I read/hear, I need to register a boat if it has a motor. And I have to pay property tax on the boat.

As far as I know, I thought you didn’t need to pay tax on a small canoe... so is that different for larger boats? (other than class A). Or am I just lost :confused: ?

Anyways, I was kinda wondering how much it cost you guys (general ballpark range) in about ten years time.

I know I'm far from it... but it's my dream to live on a boat hopefully even after retirement.

[Poida]

Definition of a boat:

A hole in the water that you throw money into.

[Toot]

Anyways, I was kinda wondering how much it cost you guys (general ballpark range) in about ten years time.

Depends on the size of the boat. The bigger, the more expensive, and it is not a linear progression. The cost shoots up significantly. One member here said that the cost nearly doubles when going from 40 to 50 feet.

Retiring on a boat sounds nice, but you have to determine, for yourself, what your aspirations are. Are you looking to have a palacial boat docked alongside the heart of a large city? Are you thinking you would be content with a small 25-footer with simple accomodations, docked out 40 miles from the city. Will the boat be a dock-condo? Or do you want to do heavy sailing across oceans? How old are you and how long do you plan to live? What about power? Sail or Steam...? as it were...

Slip fees, regular maintenance costs, insurance, upkeep, a new coat of paint every now and then, it all adds up... and more so on a 40 footer than a 20 footer.

Give people an idea of what you think you would want, and as they toss out ideas and facts and opinions, you can tweak your idea in light of what they have to say.

[Poida]

palacial ? is that a real word Toot?

[Raggi_Thor]

palatial, palatially, glacial, palatal, paschal...
Suggestions from the spelling control :-)

[Toot]

palacial ? is that a real word Toot?

Whoops. That's palatial. I just went with the root word, figured it was probably correct.

You can make fun of my spelling mistakes if you'd like, but someday the bad spellers in the world will untie.

[Raggi_Thor]

I did not make fun of your spelling, more of the spelling control :-)
I know I write a lot of strange English, words I don't know and typoes when I'm in ahurry.

[MikeJohns]

I have had a variety of sized boats up to 57' on deck.

The bigger boats are great to liveaboard.

I currently have an Adams 45 "performance cruiser" A friend with an Adams 40 basicaly the same boat can never believe how much more palatial our boat is for the extra 5 feet.

We pay no tax on yachts here and my marina fees are $30/week with power. In many places in the world ( here as well ) you can anchor for free or pick up a cheap mooring. The yearly haulout is the one worth shopping around for. With bottom paint we spend around $500- $600/annum on the haulout.

Maintenance otherwise is a pot of paint every other year say $50 per year. Sails take a bit of repairing at times but that depends on age and condition.

It can be done cheaply but you save $$ by doing as much as you can yourself.

Good luck with the dream

[hartley]

Mike Johns ...Where are you situated ?? marina fees thirty dollars a week .lead me to it ,I think I will have to relocate .In my neck of the woods we pay for a little 30 footer eighty dollars on a weekly basis ,and very little less long term ,am I being shafted or what?. Anyway thats the going rate around here ,and at fancy Yacht club marinas it is much much higher ,at least you can front up to the bar and have a drink at said fancy Yacht club .And to top it all off you can"t do a damn thing ,as regards maintenance to the exterior of your boat ,such is life I guess........cheers

[Mychael]

In many places in the world ( here as well ) you can anchor for free or pick up a cheap mooring. /QUOTE]

Not anywhere in the Bays in Victoria that I frequent. Parks Victoria now has control of all mooring sites. You need to get their approval to "rent" your particular piece of water. The rent being $100 per year. They also require you to have your mooring installed by an approved person to a required specification and have the mooring annually re-inspected.

Personally I have no issue with any of this as with everything meeting the required standards I know I will have no problems should I ever need to make an insurance claim if my boat were to break her mooring or if I were hit by a drifting boat that broke from it's mooring.
Registration of mooring sites also prevents overcrowding or "poaching" of a persons mooring when it's left unattended.

Mychael

[MikeJohns]

Mike Johns ...Where are you situated ?? marina fees thirty dollars a week .........

I'm 20 minutes south of Hobart My boat LOA is 50 feet. so we avoid the Marinas when on the mainland coast. Moorings are prety good if there is somewhere safe to stash the dinghy.

Cheers

[Poida]

Mychael

Over here is the same you have to buy a mooring but the Rottnest Island Board are the rippers.

You pay per year to have a mooring that is your exclusive mooring to use when you are on the island.

But, not only do they charge you for the mooring, they will also rent that mooring out to someone else on the chance that you may not be using it.

So you can pay for a mooring but if the person who has rented it for the year turns up to the mooring you have hired for the night, you have to move.

You also have to pay to drop anchor around the island.

[Mychael]

"WOW". That's sounds terrible. I own my mooring tackle which cost me $1,700 to have put down. I can also sell it to another person and they then take over the ownership and "water rent" to Parks Victoria. I'm not allowed to rent out my mooring to a third party without notification to and approval from Parks.
The other good thing with the system of moorings down here is that Parks have my boat details and my contact details so they could reach me in the event of something not being right with my boat.

Mychael

[Vega]

I have had a variety of sized boats up to 57' on deck.

The bigger boats are great to liveaboard.

I currently have an Adams 45 "performance cruiser" A friend with an Adams 40 basicaly the same boat can never believe how much more palatial our boat is for the extra 5 feet.

We pay no tax on yachts here and my marina fees are $30/week with power. In many places in the world ( here as well ) you can anchor for free or pick up a cheap mooring.



Mike, that’s a very nice sailing boat (I thought that you liked them very heavy and ugly):P , obviously I was wrong.

About marina’s prices, the problem is not really at your own marina. Around here (Portugal) in the less expensive marinas, you can get a price around those figures, for a 40ft. In my marina, and the others I have been before, the price for week is around USD $30.

But that is only if you have a yearlong contract. If you pass by, they will charge you something like $25 a day, and in the previous marina, $40 a day. And these are prices of boats between 34ft and 40ft (10 and 12m). For a 45ft you will enter the next level of prices, the ones for the boats with more than 12 and less than 14m (more 30 or 40%).

And these prices are not expensive. In the Med, I have been charged, for a 36ft as high as $70 a day.

I agree with you about staying out of marinas, but I travel with two women, and the best I can manage is to stay out of a marina for 3 days, and most people stay a lot less time.

So, even if I agree with you about the size of the boat, regarding space, if you travel, particularly in Europe, the dimension of the boat can be a problem in what concerns expenses.

Don’t take me wrong, my next boat will be probably a 42 or 44ft, but I will not have a boat bigger than 14m. With one of those, in many marinas you will hit the last level of prices, particularly in small marinas, (bigger than 14m) and the difference in price is huge.:(

There are also more problems with big boats regarding costs. For instance, in Sardinia, they have raised a big luxury tax over all boats bigger than 14m (if I remember well) a tax that you have to pay when you enter their waters, regardless the time you are going to stay...and Sardinia is a very nice Island.:mad:

[Frosty]

[QUOTE=) a tax that you have to pay when you enter their waters, regardless the time you are going to stay...and Sardinia is a very nice Island.:mad:[/QUOTE]

But surely that only if you are a Sardine?

[MikeJohns]

Vega :-)
What you describe is basically coastal cruising. My current boat is a good coastal cruiser too. Voyaging is a bit different and the design paradigm is different .
Much of the rest of the world is free, poorly serviced and large boats let you spend many months in comfort and give you safety and better speed in your passages.

When ready for another big trip we will exchange our performance 45 footer for something heavy and comfortable between 50 and 60 feet again. There is a lot of compromise in sailing vessels and your cruising grounds will dictate the vessel too. I really like having 5 or 6 people aboard for security comfort and camaraderie but I also like the wild seldom visited areas far more than the marina towns.

[SWG]

Errr... I dont mean to sound like a noob, but what's a "mooring"

[Frosty]

Its when you tie your 400,000 dollar boat to a bit of chain fastened to a lump of concrete burried in the mud, bit like tying a bull through its nose to a tree.

Then, -- and then,-- Oh you'lle like this bit--you expect it to be still there in the morning???

[Mychael]

Then, -- and then,-- Oh you'lle like this bit--you expect it to be still there in the morning???


"Hope" As in I "hope" my boat will be there in the morning (as one time it wasn't). And I only have a little boat by comparison to what some of the forum members talk about owning.

Pens are great for those as can afford them.

Mychael.

[SWG]

Wow. I'd just sleep on it. That way I may wake up in the morning in the middle of nowhere where all I can see is sea in all directions when I'm out of gass.....

BUT AT LEAST I STILL GOT MY BOAT!

:O

[fiberglass jack]

look to spending 5 to 10% off the cost of the boat every year on mantanace,and that depends on how good a captain you are, are u able to do the mechanical yourself ,major glass repairs, shes not a cheap alternative,mooring fees can cost a few hundred a year per foot in a well kept marinia or you can always moor her in a floating trailerpark for cheap,we dont have to pay property tax here in canada but we only have may to october

[Vega]

But surely that only if you are a Sardine?

Hey jack, Sardines are what fishermen fish around here:p . I think they call themselves Sardos.

No, quite the opposite. If you have an annual berth rent in a local marina you are exempt. It is only for visitors.

“Dozens of yacht owners have been tapped by Italian authorities for not paying Sardinia’s new luxury tax for non-residents.

Checks of the island’s marinas began Aug. 9, the day after a 60-day enactment cushion had expired on the tax charged to yachts over 14m, private planes and second homes within 3km of the sea, according to a report by the Italian news service AGI. …….

Several Sardinian ports, many of which object to the tax, are giving yachts favorable rates for annual contracts. Yachts with annual contracts are exempt from the tax…..

"I suggested to the owner that we boycott Sardinia due to the extortionate tax charges," …..."

The tax is in effect from June 1 to Sept. 30. Rates are charged on a graduated scale – the larger the yacht, plane or home, the more tax is owed. For a yacht such as CV-9, the tax amounts to 10,000 euros (almost $13,000).

It is a one-time tax for the entire season, but applies separately to yachts, planes and homes. One yacht owner who flew into Sardinia to meet his yacht paid both the landing tax and the mooring tax, about $27,000 total, according to the captain, who asked that the owner’s yacht not be identified.
…….
But in a story on ANSA.it, the island’s regional governor, Renato Soru, who added the tax to the budget at the last minute in May, said affluent visitors were being charged "relatively small sums." ……

At the same time that some yacht captains and owners are fighting Sardinia’s new luxury tax, Italian authorities are proposing similar taxes be implemented in ports around the country.

On Aug. 20, The Sunday Times of London reported that an Italian minister has urged regional governments in Capri and Sicily to copy Sardinia’s tax. In Sicily, the idea already has the support of an Italian consumers association.
…….
Even if there was a fall in marine traffic, The Times reported Soru as saying it was "not necessarily a bad thing. At times our seas are so crowded they resemble motorways."

"Most rich tourists, in any case, do not spend a single euro in Sardinia," he told the newspaper, which is why he created the tax.
http://www.the-triton.com/archives/stories/sept2006_00044.htm

[Frosty]

It is becoming more and more popular to keep boats in Asia. A few people I know live in UK and the USA for instance and fly to asia to see their boat. There is no taxes ,fuel is cheaper ,marina fees are a fraction , nice weather that can be almost guranteed, exotic food, and many deserted islands to anchor off with out a soul in sight.

Yep it probably sounds like a Sunsail advert and yes those would be the words they would use.

It would mean that that it might not be less than keeping the boat in your own country but it will mean that you will be able to use it to its fullest extent of enjoyment. Oh and I forgot to say that boat maintenance is as good as Europe now yet half the price.

Here just south of the border of Thailand in Malaysia my marina fee is 200 dollar per month, free water. I have posted a satalite picture of the marina where i stay on the thread "google earth"

If you get bored with sailing catch the overnight sleeper to Bangkok, or cruise down the coast to Singapore.