Drink cans,beer cans ETC,using as floatation

[djwkd]

hi,i just need to know if its possible to encase beer cans and driftwood etc inside a sealed up frame.

[jehardiman]

:rolleyes: ....No, just glue them in upside down...

[Frosty]

You can get Newcastle brown in cans now? Thats disgusting --it should be in a clear glass pint bottle.

[djwkd]

unfortunately you can get newcastle brown in cans.Anyhow,i dont drink often,so im always thisrsty.(yeah,i know that was a rubbish joke,but i hope we dont all start talking about newcastle brown now.....!)

[djwkd]

unfortunately you can get newcastle brown in cans.Anyhow,i dont drink often,so im always thisrsty.(yeah,i know that was a rubbish joke,but i hope we dont all start talking about newcastle brown now.....!)
oops,sorry if you thought that was stupid too!

[djwkd]

:rolleyes: ....No, just glue them in upside down...
upside down as in hole in the water?FOR THE OCEAN?REALLY?

[Figgy]

upside down as in hole in the water?FOR THE OCEAN?REALLY?

He was kidding!

Newcastle in cans wouldnt be too tasty.

[djwkd]

right,so how do i cover them up?

[djwkd]

also if you put them upside down,it might just work ok! (if its upwards water may get in easier,how ever upside down will just maintain the water line with plastic bottles and stuff.)

[winters]

uhm.. using cans as floatation for what exactly ?

[Richard Hillsid]

The idea sounds interesting, the further the voyage gets the more bouncy you have after drinking the beer, one must design a method of removing and re inserting the cans easily.

[djwkd]

Raft,17 foot.

[djwkd]

is it possible to put floatation inside a dry frame?

[Figgy]

Why not just seal the frames up and have that be your floatation?

[marshmat]

Some cottagers here have made rafts using cans; the 5 L beer-bubba mini kegs work a lot better though.
Cuban refugees have been known to cross to Florida on rafts made with pop bottles.
Anything that is completely sealed will work. Pop/beer cans, will be a lot harder than plastic bottles, which can have the lids glued on securely.
I'm not sure I'd want to take this thing on the ocean though....

[djwkd]

well,floating neutrinos did.

[djwkd]

again,why not put floatation in a fame then seal it up?

[Figgy]

I just dont understand what your trying to do. After following your shanty boat ideas and such, it would help to know compleatly what you want to accomplish.
If you said, " I want to make the cheapest ocean going raft I can get away with" or " I want to use recycled materials to prove a point about the environment", we might be able to help you better. Otherwise people are just tossing ideas out there with no clue.

[hansp77]

From the anual Beer Can Regatta in Darwin, Northern Territory, Australia.
http://www.ozoutback.com.au/postcards/postcards_forms/nt_beercanregatta/Image/au431040.jpghttp://www.ozoutback.com.au/postcards/postcards_forms/nt_beercanregatta/Image/au431041.jpg

[Frosty]

I think I can just spot a can of Guinness in there. That also is disgusting who the hell drank that. I assume that each can had to be emptied by the participants no more that 1 hour before launch

[djwkd]

I want to make the cheapest ocean going raft I can get away with

[Frosty]

I want to make the cheapest ocean going raft I can get away with

Why? whats the matter? dont you like Newcastle any more?.

[Figgy]

You've got some of the materials now, yes? For the raft itself? Like anything in life, it starts with a good foundation. Forget cans, do you have 2 liter soda containers over there?

[Bergalia]

*Oban in the West Highlands of Scotland (my old stomping ground) has an annual 'cross harbour' race (qualifies as ocean) - and the favourite building material for the rafts are beer cans. The ring-pull was saved, straightened, and epoxied back into place. I've also seen can tops 'sealed' with condoms - unfortunately in the Highlands we had trouble finding condoms small enough fit tightly over the can tops, though I believe the American 'standard' size might have served.....;)

For 'cheap' material you might hunt around your 'local' ocean fish-farms. Large blocks of polystyrene (up to 3X4 metres) are used for floatation supports for the fish cages.
When these become encased in barnacles, weed etc, they tend to be dumped.

Never mind Newcastle Broon in bottles - what about the ridiculous claim of 'draught beer' in bottles...
*As an aside, a few miles south of Oban locals using the 'Sean Trews' pub can walk across the Atlantic by bridge...(swear to you it's true...check it out via your search engine)
Good luck.

[Frosty]

To be serious ( for a second or 2) If i had to make a raft I would use telegraph poles or old railway sleepers( No not the cement type) both these discarded wooden items are already soaked in creosote. I would bind them together with video tape and take along a football called Wilson. I would then make a face on the football with blood and talk to it. Another necessary item would be a pair of ladies ice skates.

[hansp77]

you forget the beard Jack,
everyone always forgets the beard...

[djwkd]

yes,and of course everyone can so easily find telegraph poles,cos morse code is at its peek population now!

[djwkd]

ok,my question,wasn 'what would i do in case i got bored'or 'how would newcastle brown be like in cans'i didnt ask anyone that?any ideas about WHAT I ASKED?

[djwkd]

He was kidding!

Newcastle in cans wouldnt be too tasty.


yeah,but you dont eat or drink newcastle,its a city.

[Frosty]

Its because there is no morse code any more that they have taken them down and stacked them some where, probably somewhere near the railway sleepers. Find out where they have stacked them and go down there with some mates one night and pass a few over the fence.

[djwkd]

how tall are these?

[SamSam]

ok,my question,wasn 'what would i do in case i got bored'or 'how would newcastle brown be like in cans'i didnt ask anyone that?any ideas about WHAT I ASKED?
I get the idea whatever you are thinking about doing is not a good idea. You "want to make the cheapest ocean going raft you can get away with". Well, just add a couple more beer cans or a few more ping pong balls or a few more innertubes than the last person that died at sea had in their raft.
You keep mentioning the F'ing Neutrinos. Try this place ...
http://www.floatingneutrinos.com/Other%20Rafts/How%20to%20Build%20a%20Raft.html
BTW, since the telegraph poles are all stacked now, it's not how tall they are, but how long they are, and that depends on whether they used Morse code in CAPITOL letters or small letters and also on how far the message had to go. Sam

[rturbett]

We have taken the saturated flotation foam out of old sunfish, and replaced it with sealed 2 litre plastic soda bottles with great success. That being said, we have never even taken a sunfish to the ocean!

[Ike]

I knew a guy who built a boat out of beer cans and fiberglass. First he emptied the cans (no I did not ask). Then set them end to end (I don't know how many) and rolled them up in fiberglass, soaked it with resin and let it dry. He made a lot of these beer can logs. He had built a male mold and formed the logs over the mold to make a hull. and of course stuck all the logs together to make it water tight. He left out the pigment so you could see the cans. I asked him to send me a photo but he never did. I wish he had.

[djwkd]

sounds a good idea....

[djwkd]

so..i could use a frame,floatation in...seal.....................??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Frosty]

Yes absalutely. Could you draw some pictures of what you are trying to do.

[djwkd]

i dont hve a scanner,also,will a)driftwood and B)drinks cans be ok and still float when sealed?

[djwkd]

here it is:as attachment.

[djwkd]

Why wouldn't you want to take on ocean (although it is only going to be coastal)?

[Mikey]

If it floats close to the coast, then it will float also when you go oceanic, no problems. It will just break up and sink faster out there. So you can bring less beer with you. Now let's see, assuming that you can collect empty beer cans for free and have to buy the ones that you want to drink, it's actually cheaper to build and run an oceanic beer can raft than a coastal one :)

[Mikey]

What a glorious attachment, yes, that will work. Forget the drift wood and fill it with sealed empty beer cans. Good that you live in Newcastle, plenty of free building material around.

Are the cans of the light (alu) or the heavy type? Just thinking that the light ones would probably do well for a coastie but the oceanic model would probably benefit from the heaver and sturdier ones

[djwkd]

I honestly couldn't tell you-and im sashamed to say i couldnt be bothered to check them all.I odnt know why everyone is assuming its just cans im using-im using 1&2 litre pop/soda bottles too!(and any other container that held a liquid and is sealed-cans are the only exception for the sealed thing).

Anyway-they dont need to be sealed (i think)because there going inside a sealed frame of wood.

[Mikey]

Regardless of if you are going to seal the frame or not, seal the cans. You'll be glad you did that when your sealed wooden frame isn't (completely) sealed any longer.

[alan white]

64 oz plastic bottles with caps would make more sense. Each one will displace 4 lbs of water. Here they would be 5 cents I think. Each one is seperately sealed, so it's a good idea security-wise. Aluminum will dissolve in salt water, I think.
Packing peanuts (styrene foam) will fill any space, and are cheap or free.
Flotation is cheap'n'easy except if you are building a proper little yacht like an H-12 1/2 or Haven 12 1/2, which specify a hand made copper air box, which is pretty foolish because it's cheaper to use foam and then buy a good used car with the change.

A.

[bilgeboy]

I love this thread.

I have managed to stay out of it for so long now, don’t know why I have failed to refrain myself now.

A few things. Newcastle in a can is worth researching. I might try some research tonight.

I agree with sealing up the cans real tight. I would put a dab of epoxy on a toothpick, and allow this to set up on the metal tab that gets pushed down into the can.

When cured, this will allow you to pull the tab up to its former position at the top of the can.

It’s then just a simple matter of welding the tab back into position. Probably a small TIG machine would be ideal for this tedious, but so important, job.

A small grinder to remove the toothpick, and Voila!

It sure would give you a lot of peace of mind knowing each can was sealed so tightly. You don’t want to be sweating that out in the rough stuff!

Mike

[alan white]

You sound like you've been researching already!

A.

[djwkd]

hmm..i think all this may be over my budget so ill just include milk bottles and soda bottles.

[bilgeboy]

Sorry, Alan. I need all my faculties fully intact for such brilliant ideas!

Seriously, what I love about this thread is that is sounds crazy...at first. You give it some time and thought, and you kind of want to try building something. Thats why I ignored it for so long.

When I was much younger, my cousins and I would have to build a raft to play on the lake every couple of years. They were short lived. We would nail a sheet of 4x8' ply to a 2x4 frame, and stuff it with whatever foam was lying around. We didn't sweat closed cell or open back in the day. Another 4x8 sheet on the other side, and we had a raft. It was great. Playing "King of the Raft" was an obvious game that provided hours of summertime fun. Though I be a lowly bilgeboy now, I had my seconds of fame as "King of the Raft". A few scars from protruding nail heads are still visible.

These rafts would soak instantly, be incredibly heavy, and provide tons of fun.

I also remember the days when I was a little less hefty, in the first years of college. I used to be able to stand on one foot on top of a beer can. A second "researcher" would just flick the side of the can with his finger, and the can would instantly crumble under my weight. No engineering majors in that crowd, but we all found it interesting and entertaining.

Anyway, I think a flotilla of empty beer cans epoxied between two sheets of luan ply, with some wood sides, and wrapped in a layer or two of 6 oz would make an incredibly light, but very strong raft.

With some more "research", I just might try it.

Mike

[djwkd]

Ok,thankyou for that suggestion.I have now ordered some Epoxy.

[SamSam]

Aluminum will dissolve in salt water, I think.
A.

Real fast, I think.

[djwkd]

Why not just seal the frames up and have that be your floatation?


because the seal may not be too strong,also,this defeats the object of it being a raft,and if it were to beach or ground it would sink.That is the main reason why i wish to build a raft.

[alan white]

I read Huckleberry Finn six months ago, hadn't read it in 30 years. There is something about a raft easing down a river at night, maybe a tent and a cookfire aboard. My daughter told me a former boyfriend had made a raft to float down the Penobscot river, and some official so and so accosted him midstream and told him the raft was unsafe and he had to abandon it.
Actually, the official had no such authority, and there was a standoff, raft and boy calling the bluff.
Boys still take to rivers in rafts, thank God. Not enough of them, but some.
Here's an idea: Plastic culverts are cheap and light and if one were to pinch together the ends and melt-weld-rivet-tar them into prows...
Okay, fill them with a lot of capped bottles and rig a pump. Remembering they ferry rather than steer, and do not actually go faster than steerageway would require---- the ribbed surfaces of the culverts wouldn't matter much hydrodynamically speaking.
Forty years ago I'd have been up all night thinking about it.

A.

[geedee69]

I think a 2 litre plastic bottle will provide about 1 kg of flotation...many sailing dinghies use these as added floatation... regards, Geedee

http://groups.msn.com/FerroCementYachts

[djwkd]

So one litre capacity (bottle)=1KG if fkloatation???COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!my raft will not,not sink... LOL i'm goin crazy!2 pieces of extra good news in a row!

[geedee69]

hi there,

Sorry I made a typo in my reply ... it should have read " a 2litre bottle will provide 1 kilogram of floatation lift"....... I have edited my last reply ...

When I was not so old I used to sail a plywood "Sunburst" sailing dinghy I used plastic bottles for added flotation, they were more simple and easy to fit into the compartments than polystyrene foam and worked well.

regards,

Geedee

Invercargill
New Zealand

[djwkd]

Cheers for that edit-it could have cost me the raft if oyu didnt add that!

[Bergalia]

Seem to remember that 'wine in a box' had reached Newcastle when I was last there (20 odd years ago). Why not use the inner bladder from the cardboard casing. Not only will it look prettier - but also add a touch of class....:)

[hmattos]

I would avoid the cans as it will cause all sorts of corrosion isses, since most cans have aluminium sides and steel lids. Further the stell could affect you compass.
I would consider polypropylene bottles. The cheap solution is empty 4 pint milk bottles, or bigger catering containers if you can find them.
Then wedge them firmly into your locker space, drill a drain hole for safety and screw down the lid. Each season you can inspect all is well.

We are no longer allowed to have sealed chambers without some sort of drain as too many of them ended up sealed with water in them!

God Luck

[djwkd]

Ah,yes.soory i forgot to tell you all-i've ditched the cans and taken them out of the hulls in the raft,thankyou for telliing me about the corrosion.


Dominic.