Help first restoration.wide hull seams.

[steady45]

Hello all.
I have just taken ownership of an 45ft ex fishing boat., built in 1938 in germany.Oak on oak. She's been out of the water for two years now and needs recaulking. Some of the seams have opened up to about half an inch in places. Iv been told that she floated fine prior to being put ashore.
My questions is how do I recaulk a boat with this problem?My understanding of recaulking is that first you clean out the seams, then primer them. After that you caulk them with oakum and seam seal. Im assuming that you sand and paint after that. As you can probably guess iv never caulked anything in my life. I have no problem giving this ago as I am in the situation where I can go to the boat and simply camp out in my car for a few days so I can gets lots done,hopefully.
But how do I deal with a seam that has opened up to half an inch? If I caulk it tight (if that's possible) then im assuming that the plank will swell and be damaged.
How would you guys do this?

[gonzo]

I suggest you hire a marine surveyor. A boat that age will have other problems. It is a good time to inspect fasteners among other things.

[steady45]

oh I know she has problems.Needs horn timber replacing/repairing and parts of stern needs replanking where it meats the horn timber.(canoe stern). Have been told that stem/keel and most of hull planking is fine.inernal frames seem ok.Part of beam shelf next to engine room needs repairs and some half beams need replacing.Apart from that she seams ok :)
But my problem isnt doing the repairs. Its deciding what parts need replacing.e.g can I caulk these wide seams or will I have to replace alternat planks to close up seams? im lost. I can't realy start on any repairs until I figure out what to do with the hull planking. Refixing would have been my next consideration after deciding about the seams. Im not after a perfect restoration, simply wish to know what would seam like the most econmical and workman like repair to what is an old work boat.

[gonzo]

One way to repair seams that are too wide is to use a thin piece of cedar or other soft wood to fill the seam. Some people glue it to one side and then caulk the other. I just pound them in.

[hansp77]

I am in the situation where I can go to the boat and simply camp out in my car for a few days so I can gets lots done,hopefully.


Hello Steady,
welcome,

a few days? lots done?
Welcome to your new life my friend.:D :D :D

I think Gonzo hit the nail on the head.
You have it out, you have just got the thing, and now is the best time to go over it with a FINE TOOTH COMBE.
If you can't do this yourself, ie don't have the expertise (like myself) then you should pay someone to do it. I assume you will need a marine survey for insurance anyway? So get one started now (part of the deal for the same price can be that they start it now, and finish it when you are finished restoration). Pick someone who will be helpfull and has expertise with this sort of boat and go over the entire boat with him/her. This way you will find out everything that is wrong with the thing, so that you can then decide what to do and not do, and in what order to do them. Ideally I would try to find a marine surveyor who is or has also been a wooden boat builder so that you can pick their brains about what and how things need to be done.

If you just dive in and start on what you think is the right thing, you will probably be making more work for yourself.
This was exactly my mistake. I started with my freshly bought optimism, that other than the obvious- pretty much everything was ok, and did what I thought needed doing. This translated into spending two or three weeks (with three to four people) working on deck and cabin material that ended up being ripped out anyway. There was more of this sort of thing too.

While it might be overwhelming to hear the full verdict at this early stage (it woulld have nearly killed me ;) ), I tell you it will be better than simply uncovering two jobs everytime you get into one. Often the second or third job you uncover voids the first one you have been working on. "Well if that needs replacing then, this needs to come off, so this needs replacing..:mad: :mad: :mad: .."

Best luck with your boat,
and if you can, post some photos,
It is good to see people who are tackling big (or bigger) jobs too.
I don't know if it is 'misery loves company' or something a little more optimistic.:D :D :D ;)

Hans.

[Hunter25]

Your boat has dried out. Many of those seams will close a great amount with moisture in the planking again. 1/2" seams are way too big and with that kind of movement, you have other problems, such as fastener sickness, cracked or broken frames, hogging, rotten fastener holes, etc. If you have a bad horn or stem, which is probably an assembly of pieces, then you can not caulk her up and expect her to stay dry. Caulking turns the individual planks into a continuous hull shell. If you pound in new caulk, you will rip open the bad pieces of the stem and else where. Pounding caulking and seam repair are not a jobs for an amateur or back yard wood crafter. A badly pounded caulk job can wreck a boat and poorly fitted seam repairs will leak.

You need a survey. On a boat the size of yours, this could take a few days, if he does his job right. With a proper survey, you will be ready to take on the various jobs, have a good idea how and which to approach first, with possible alternative solutions. Some of this work, you will be able to handle and others will need a professional. Find a well recommended surveyor, then a boat carpenter to help you out. Start with the insurance company surveyor, they trust him, not that it means much any more.

[steady45]

Ok,thanks guys.
Gonzo I agree with you with regards to a survey.However im in no hurry to chuck cash at an unknown.I want to get as much info as poss about what I can see and how to fix it before I get a survey done as then I will be in a position to understand what is being reported back to me. Anyway the hold is leveled off with 4 tons of concrete that needs removing first!
Considering what hansp77 has said I can see that geting a survey done just before I start any work would be a good idea.I don't want to be in the situation of riping out what iv already done! Oak isnt cheep!!
"lots done" to me is a cool few days just siting and looking lol.
Hunter, I take your point about "a continuous hull shell" Doing the caulking was the last job I had in mind with regards to hull work.I was going to attend to the horn timber well before I start doing anything with planking.The cost of replanking a hull or major parts would far out cost the horn timber.so i need to know in advance if I can save the hull planking. So what is permited gaps on a traditional style hull planked with heavy frames and 4 inch by 1 1/4 inch planks? what size would the gaps have been when built?
I have been told that the hull has been taken care of , so I expect she has been repetedly caulked and that has opened up the gaps quite a lot.

[pashbe1]

You've been getting really good advice from hunter and hansp77 so I'm not going to repeat it but address your specific questions. Wacking a soft wood spline into the seams is one viable approach. Some old wooden north sea fish boats have had their lives extended by having iron rebar pounded into their seams! This was after the seams had opened permanently from years of recaulking. The iron expands as it rust, sealing the seam. This is a cheap and easy (and temporary) fix for a boat that has to earn money. I would not recommend it.

While half inch seams are big they are not unusual for a boat of this type and age. If you can see light throug the seams after removing the oakum and putty the seams should probably be repaired. One approach is to clean out the seams (remove all old oakum and seam putty) then clean up the plank edges with a circular saw. Then glue a carefully shaped batten to one plank only. The shaping on the unglued side should be done to give you a caulking seam of about 1/4". The batten should be tight on the inside but have a bevel from about 2/3 the thickness to give the caulking seam on the outside. On boats like this I usually start with cotton (after the seam has been repaired) and finish with oakum. For seam putty you might try simple glazing putty (on a 130' boat I worked on cement was used!). Its cheap and works, but I don't know what it is called in Europe. Toplicht and Davey are two European suppliers who have what you need for this from cotton and oakum to caulking irons. Or try Ebay. You will be surprised how much cotton and oakum she takes but don't blow it through the inside seam. This is just to address the caulking. You have bigger issues I'm sure. Pics of a misspent youth.