Gas from Water, (WaterFuel), HHO technology

[brian eiland]

I really haven't had the time to look at this technology very close, but several friends who thought I might be interested sent me a couple of eMails on the subject.

I thought about posting this under the "New propulsion sytems for ships (http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9630)" thread but seeing as that one has gotten rather lengthy, and this technology may have many more aplications than just ships, I gave it a new thread.

from a news source....
Two particularly intriguing exhibits were the H2O 2000 gas generator machine, a revolutionary welding and cutting device, and...
The generator is a little 160-pound gizmo on wheels that is powerful indeed. In the words of The Center for Strategic Alliance Inc., “we can now make fire from water.” The Center for Strategic Alliance Inc. is a small consulting business with offices in Hickman, Ky.

This technology, with more than five years in research and development at Hydrogen Technology Applications Inc. (HTA), illustrates that the solutions to our energy and environmental woes may be in the common elements that surround us. The patented process safely generates a molecularly stable hybrid hydrogen/oxygen gas (Klein/HHO) on demand from water. The gas is extremely environmentally friendly in that it has no polluting subgases when burned and produces only pure water in vapor form. It is currently being used to cut, weld, solder and fuse such materials as metal, plastics, ceramics and glass in commercial as well as artistic applications.

Unlike pure hydrogen gas, HHO gas remains highly stable, reducing the fear of explosions that often accompany pure hydrogen systems.

This isn't just good new for welders. This technology is being adapted for a new breed of hybrid cars. I've been hearing claims like this since I was knee-high to a grasshopper, but this is the first time I have seen anything like this that is believable. Take the time to read the links. You, too, will be amazed, I think.

Related News Links:
hytechapps.com 1 (http://hytechapps.com/technology/index.html)
hytechapps.com 2 (http://hytechapps.com/science/index.html)
hytechapps.com 3 (http://hytechapps.com/applications/index.html)
hytechapps.com 4 (http://hytechapps.com/applications/HHOS.htm)

[SeaSpark]

Hm....

When googling "hydrogen technology applications" i found in the first results:

Some fake wiki:
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Hydrogen_Technology_Applications_Inc

Dead link:
https://www.newhomesconnect.com/blc/hta_app.shtml

Google cache from same dead link:

ON-LINE APPLICATION

Please fill in all fields requested below for accuracy in processing your credit application.
We will notify you immediately as to the status of your credit application.
You may also download and print our credit application in Acrobat Reader format
and fax it to us at toll free (800) 882-5261.

Click Here To Download A Printable Application - Adobe Acrobat Format

Applications are processed Monday-Friday between the hours of 9:00AM to 2:30PM EST.
Applications received after 2:30EST will be processed the following business morning.

Thank you, and we look forward to serving your business financing needs.

Scam?
http://www.bizlendingcenter.com/hta_01.html

[SeaSpark]

Other forum bothered with this:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=56705

[marshmat]

The electrolysis of water produces hydrogen and oxygen in atomic form. These can combine in various ways:
Hydrogen (H2) and oxygen (O2)
Hydrogen peroxide (H2O2), and hydrogen (H2)
Hydrogen (H2) and ozone (O3)
etcetera...
You get the idea. All you get is hydrogen and oxygen in various combinations, and always 2 H atoms to one O atom.
The plain H2, O2 mixture is certainly not a stable one.
Aquygen (tm) gas appears to be simply a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen. The device appears to be not much different from the common electrolyzer that any first-year engineering student can whip up in two hours.
Having said that, and cut through the bulls*it of their uninformed marketing types, I see a very capable welding machine that could be useful for a huge variety of tasks. If HTA were to market it as such, and not claim innovations that they clearly didn't make, credibility would be a lot higher.
As for claims of revolutionary energy efficiency, etc. The first and second laws CANNOT be violated. Ever. So that energy has to come from somewhere- in this case the power grid, meaning it comes mostly from nuclear, coal and gas plants.

[StianM]

Everyone beliving in hydrogen should sitt down and think about why we are not using it allready.

I have critizised hydrogen so manny times and so manny places during the years that I don't even care to do it again.

[brian eiland]

Other forum bothered with this:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=56705
That was an interesting forum SeaSpark. I rather thought there was something quirky with this technology, but lacked the knowledge to evaluate it.

[Wellydeckhand]

Hydrogen is the fuel for the sun, can be found almost everywhere in universe..... can be drawn from mineral, liquid or directly from air.

The stuff help bomb blow bigger, help camera see heat........ make me sick.... cause need oxygen.

Hydrogen is one of the vital component of organic stuff..... Carbon, Hydrogen and Oxygen..... concluded the class for elementary studies......

Expensive equipment is needed, for instant, u need 120 thickness pipe rather the norm 40, stainless of course, can u imagine a car use flimsy metal pipe? Free B-B-Q I smell.....

WDH

[yipster]

wow, lots of new info and specially for boats that H+O is good stuff to explore

[nero]

In order for HyTech to realize its vision of becoming an alternative energy technology company, we intend to negotiate strategic relationships with third party companies and organizations that will participate in new product research and development, including joint engineering, manufacturing, distribution, marketing, promotion and customer support. HyTech in effect will become an intellectual property management company that will continue to own and control the underlying technology through licensing agreements, joint ventures and contractual arrangements with strategic partners worldwide.


"Our commitment to the research and development and ultimately refinement of this technology is certain, because leading world governments and industry giants have made long term commitments to the research and development of hydrogen energy sources as the replacement fuel for the diminishing and polluting fossil fuels worldwide." - The Center for Strategic Alliance Inc

No one will ever see any of this technology developed ... if it is developable. They are already stating that the corporations and government will buy up the license.

 

[PATDave2]

Hey whats up people?

[StianM]

unlike stupidety inteligense has it's limits

[gonzo]

I read the information. It is full of claims that are incomplete and misleading. HHO? give me a break! That's H2O= water in common parlance. They made an electrolytic cell that decomposes water into hydrogen and oxygen. When they combine again into water there is an exothermic reaction. The 10000 degrees are with "some materials" I assume that the oxidation of some materials like magnesium would reach such temperatures.

[stonebreaker]

It's a scam - you input energy to break a water molecule apart, then re-combine the elements to get the energy back out. Where does the extra energy to run the vehicle come from? It's a version of the ever popular perpetual motion machine.

Commercial processes use steam to break apart natural gas (CH4) into hydrogen and carbon dioxide. The energy required to break the methane apart is less than that recovered when you burn hydrogen into water.

[yokebutt]

They're right about one thing though, HHO gas is very stable.

Brian, please read up on the second law and stop posting this kind of fraudulent drivel.

Yoke.

[brian eiland]

You're right, I apologized on another forum and forgot to do so here.

Sorry for posting this. I just had not read over any of the material on it and accepted it at face value...my mistake.


There are several interesting discussions at this forum by some rather 'brainy' guys on the chemistry and physics on this subject...you have to look on thru it to find them
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=56705

[FAST FRED]

"No one will ever see any of this technology developed ... if it is developable. They are already stating that the corporations and government will buy up the license. "

Nonsense , the price of energy is a pain all over the world , and lots of folks are using BIG government bucks looking for solutions.

Some are continuing scams , Ballard Power & their "fuel cells" have been eating millions from investors for years , with nothing but news releases to show to suckers , ooops I mean investors.

Fear not , when ANYTHING rational is developed , an entire world awaits to profit from it.

The inventor MAY get serewed , as was the gent that invented the modern radiator overflow refill setup.
Every mfg in the world has switched as a radiator . without air entrained is 25% more efficent.

Making every radiator 25% smaller is probably worth billions to the worlds mfg , so was stolen instantly.
The huge areas of the world that do not recognise property rights , will be the first to seize any advances.

FAST FRED

[Wellydeckhand]

http://www.fuelcells.org/

[yipster]

meanwhile it would be nice to split water cheaper than trowing penlites in a glas of water to demonstrate
for real hydrogen power dont forget http://www.iter.org/
Why has ITER not yet started?

The design of ITER was completed to the extent necessary to determine its cost in 2001. At that time with a Canadian site offer it was possible to begin negotiations on joint construction and operation of ITER. These negotiations were delayed somewhat (but nevertheless enriched) by the return of the US to the project and by the joining of China and South Korea in 2003. By the end of 2003 the main issues of a joint implementation agreement had been ironed out between these potential Parties. The deadlock over the choice of site between Europe and Japan between December 2003 and June 2005 held up further progress. With the agreement to construct ITER in France, implementation of the project, which requires the signature/ratification of the agreement and the establishment of the ITER organisation as an international legal entity as its first step, can now go ahead.

[marshmat]

I wouldn't be so hard on Ballard there. Yes, they are losing a lot of money. But their reason for existing is not to turn huge profits- their mission is to put together enough knowledge, enough people and enough interest to get a fuel cell industry going. There are a lot of technological hurdles to be overcome before fuel cell technology can be commercially viable, and this kind of research can't succeed when every quarter has to post a profit. Would investors- and I mean the knowledgeable venture capital variety, not the kitchen table variety- still be supporting the company if the technology were going nowhere? I don't think so. Ballard's work, along with that of Stuart, Hydrogenics, etc. is on the verge of being commercially viable, to the point where Iceland has proposed using the entire country as a real-world proving ground for these technologies. Consider Ballard's Mark 1030 one-kilowatt cogeneration modules, which can be combined into banks to provide the heat AND electric needs of houses, at fairly competitive prices relative to conventional sources. These aren't pie-in-the-sky technologies anymore, and while there's still a lot of money to be spent on development before things turn profitable, this sort of work is making considerable progress.

[quarktoo]

They're right about one thing though, HHO gas is very stable.

Brian, please read up on the second law and stop posting this kind of fraudulent drivel.

Yoke.

I actually know something about the subject at hand unlike anybody that has commented on this thread and it is based on years of research. Knowledge is experience.

The second law does not apply to an open system and the system is open because water is the fuel source. All free energy devices, as they are referred to, work the same way in that they convert mass into the atomic energy contained within the mass.

O3 and steam are mixed to form H2O2 which has a molecular bond angle of 109.28 degrees. Dr. Puharich stated that he changed the bond angle to 109 degrees on his you tube videos prior to his untimely death.

Stan Meyer's "air gas processor" was a laser ozone generator and his magnetron powered steam generator is plainly visible in the photos and notes.

H2O2 is a rigid molecule which will "shatter" (Dr. Puharich) or "fracture" (Stan Meyer) in an ultrasonic resonant cavity. The process is known sonofusion and cavitation produced by a standing wave is the acceleration needed to convert mass into the atomic energy contained within the mass. Electron cascade is what causes the glow and is the result of that conversion.

To apply the second law to the entire universe would be a bit heady since nobody knows what they don't know, except the uneducated, insane magical thinkers which make up most of the people that comment on this subject one way or the other.

It is not a chemical process however chemistry does occur. The knowledge of this and other processes are suppressed for economic reasons. Anyone that really thinks science is an open and honest profession hasn't been paying attention. Anyone that thinks the government is actually trying to find an alternative to carbon doesn't know anything about government or the energy business.

There is enough oil under just one island in Alaska to supply the US for the next 200 years. We would bind all the Earths O2 to carbon long before we ever used up all the oil available.

Water fuel is the perfect solution since the O2 coming out the exhaust is around 28%. On a good day in the right place, the O2 level in the air you breath is 14%.

The O2 level on Earth back when they started measuring it about 170 years ago was around 28%. We are suffocating on the ignorance and corruption of the masses and elites respectively.

There are safer and better ways to derive motive power from the conversion of mass into atomic energy.

The round isotropic tank is the perfect resonant cavity. "All things become possible with the round form." - Tesla.

Piezo is the perfect mechanical driver for that isotropic chamber as it is cheap, reliable, proven, requires little energy, unregulated and available to the masses.

The Tesla manifold was a linear cavitation device capable of doing the mass to atomic energy conversion. That would be an interesting way of powering a boat since Tesla most likely used it to power his Tesla turbine which is designed to not be destroyed by the fusion bubbles that are so destructive to propellers, turbine blades or anything else they are slammed into.

[Kay9]

First of all, thanks for opening up a dead thread that has no bearing on anything at all.

Secondly, I will tell you the same thing I tell everyone that comes here with claims of new energy.

Go finish inventing/developing it. Make an engine that will run a 75' fishing vessel. Install the engine in the Vessel and let me run it for 2 weeks.

If you do this, and if the engine/fuel actually dose what you claim it will do. I will refit our intire FLEET with your invention/fuel.

Untill then however. You dont have **** and I dont care.

K9

[yipster]

good to open up an old thread that has bearing on clean energy, perhaps better than to jet over to Copenhagen.
and as i see it, its certyainly relevant specialy to ships and boats since they sail on water
I actually know something about the subject at hand unlike anybody that has commented on this thread
i'm only a popular scientist or how do you call it, with limitid chemical knowhow but on H fusion i have some experience
5 years back looking at my props and after some reading i too came to the same idea, that caviatation at the prop (http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/projects-proposals/some-ideas-1255-5.html#post22928) is fusion eh?
yes i find this very interesting. pitty the world often thinks it means ****

[quarktoo]

good to open up an old thread that has bearing on clean energy, perhaps better than to jet over to Copenhagen.
and as i see it, its certyainly relevant specialy to ships and boats since they sail on water

i'm only a popular scientist or how do you call it, with limitid chemical knowhow but on H fusion i have some experience
5 years back looking at my props and after some reading i too came to the same idea, that caviatation at the prop (http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/projects-proposals/some-ideas-1255-5.html#post22928) is fusion eh?
yes i find this very interesting. pitty the world often thinks it means ****

Since water is fractured into the component gasses during cavitation and one of those gasses is singlet oxygen, then one would reasonably expect that a magnetic field would repel the fusion away from the expensive propeller since it is a magnetic atom.

It would be interesting to see if a strong neo magnet would prevent pitting on the faces of a propeller that tend to cavitate - especially the tips of large ship screws. A spinning mass capable of holding permanent magnetic field tends to get stronger just as a piece of soft iron on a lathe tends to magnetize so I don't think the magnetic field strength would diminish over time.

People that think it means **** generally have no power in this world and people that suppress it generally have a great deal of power.

K9 was not interested in discussing alternative propulsion, he was interested in telling me he owned, (or works for someone more likely) a 75' boat and a "FLEET" of them. I just translate K9's comment into "I am short, powerless, have a tiny penis to match my tiny brain and prove it whenever I can."

It is the common thought agreement that the masses tend to share that they have no power that makes it so - to think is to be. We could change the world in a weekend if people only owned their own thoughts or were capable of critical thinking. Pain has a way of doing that and as the pain of paying a carbon tax on a planet that is getting colder, not warmer, will motivate the masses.

They came up with global "warming" because it is the antipode of the truth and the big lie is how the pitchforks are deceived in the media. If the government told them the Earth is going to go through a normal 12,982 year ice age cycle and people will pay anything to keep from freezing to death, so we are going to tax and regulate all carbon combustion including your fireplace for profit, there would be a revolution. They tried this crap back in the 70's and claimed the earth was going into an ice age. In 1959 there was no sea ice during the Arctic summer as I recall.

A 5000 times overunity water heater would be a game changer though. Heat your home for a nickle a day using a device costing less than $500 bucks that an idiot could build.

[yipster]

"but on H fusion i have some experience"
well, i wanted to claim something too :D
The researchers believe the new evidence shows that "sonofusion" generates nuclear reactions by creating tiny bubbles that implode with tremendous force. Nuclear fusion reactors have historically required large, multibillion-dollar machines, but sonofusion devices might be built for a fraction of that cost. "What we are doing, in effect, is producing nuclear emissions in a simple desktop apparatus,"

said Rusi Taleyarkhan, the principal investigator and a professor of nuclear engineering at Purdue University.

read more on imploding lightemmitting bubbles here: http://www.spacedaily.com/news/energy-tech-04o.html

looking at my props i counted two and two together and said 5 years back, cavitation at your prop may well be H fusion

but okay, not claiming anything so lets say i'll have that H fusion under investigation

[quarktoo]

And you were right Yipster. Cavitation is an accelerator and all free energy devices convert mass into the atomic energy contained within the mass through acceleration.

The law of force (F=MA) has three exceptions - one of which is if the mass is moving at or near light speed.

A copper penny has enough atomic energy stored in it to power New York City for a day.

Einstein claimed that a gallon of water contained enough atomic energy to run a freight train around the Earth 3 times. Einstein was off a bit since a gallon of water has the atomic energy equivalent of over 50 million barrels of oil.

Boats are floating on a sea of fuel. Admiral Griffin who was the head of science for the British Navy saw water fuel demonstrated and was well on the way to using it when Meyer died.

For all the 12 year old's that have attacked my comments, here is a report by Admiral Griffin. When your resume matches his, I will stop dismissing you as idiots trying to bully the smart kids into doing your homework. Griffin's report is attached and the high points of his resume is at the end of the document.

What Griffin didn't reveal is the laser ozone production, that cavitation produced in a piezo resonant cavity is used to bond cleave the H2O2, the magnetic separation of the extra oxygen atoms which lower the energy state of the reaction or that the weak hydrogen bond can and is broken with a high voltage spark during ignition.

You can attach a high voltage between the flame and torch head of a HHO torch to see the hydrogen bond broken as it will double the flame size.

[mark775]

As a general rule, when they even say "Tesla" or "HAARP", just to be on the safe side, increase your personal space. This guy is way beyond that but, generally, the only way these people can get at you would be to sell their Star Trek memorabilia for air fare - you know thats not happening (besides, one can't get a foil hat past TSA).
****, I forgot about the orgone powered time travel machine...

[FAST FRED]

"Fuel prices are putting you out of business,"

Not really , they have dropped by about 1/2 in a year .

If any of this dream SI FI worked we would be seeing it on aircraft ,
Huge fuel users , although quite efficient on a seat per mile basis.

FF

[brian eiland]

The stupid factor here is profound.
If you would limit yourself to some intelligent conversation/contributions rather than claiming everyone here stupid in every posting of yours you might gain some more credibility. As it is you are making most readers nauseated.

[dskira]

If you knew what you are talking about, and per the norm you don't, you would know that Dr. Herman Anderson helped invent the SR-71 Blackbird and that advanced fuel technology is used there.

The SR-71 is one of the most advanced aircraft ever built and holds many of the records to this day all made possible by those engines. Dr.Anderson also helped build the Stealth bomber and advanced propulsion technology is used there as well.

Dr. Herman Anderson also invented a water car. His car was licensed as a nuclear device with the State of TN as it ran on heavy water he made himself.

http://waterpoweredcar.com/herman.html

Airline fuel prices are subsidized to the airlines that they want to succeed as they reconsolidate the industry.

And lastly, I didn't write that to you, I wrote it to k9 who earns his living as a fisherman. You are probably not a fisherman living in Florida.

The stupid factor here is profound.

You live in NewYork dreaming of your Blackbird. This is fine. But you are the one who bring the stupid factor here.
Who do you think you are? a fisherman in Florida? no, but you are a real jerk like we can find by the thousand. The advantage of the thousand is they are not in the forum. We have one who decided to come (you) with is Blackbird. Please, go back to :?: I don't know where, but go back fast.

The quarktoo factor of stupidity is abyssynal (you like my spelling :P )
Daniel

[apex1]

Oh, oh,

that must have been a nightmare of a childhood.....................

You misspell "quack too" btw!

[troy2000]

Yesterday I culdn't even spell nucular physicist, and today I are one--I got all smart, becus quirktool schooled me.:D

Lord, what a thread to wake up too. I almost sprayed coffee all over my keyboard, laughing.

[hoytedow]

Daniel,

"NewYork" is two words.

You shouldn't start a sentence with the word "But"....
You forgot to capialize "No" and that sentence also has structure problems to the point of being unintelligible.

"is" should have been "his".........

The answer to your your question is, your spelling is not the big problem, the big problem is you can't structure a sentence and subsequent paragraph that doesn't prove you are an idiot.

.........could.

Have a nice day Danial.
An example of the correct way to start a sentence with "but".:

But for your throwing insults of at dskira, I would never have responded to your post.
Had you shown the least scintilla of manners in this forum, your remarks would have been given more weight, but since you have thrown insults around like confetti at a parade, you will have to bear up under being the butt of some remarks here.
You can get more flies with honey than you can with vinegar, but nukes get everything.
I could go on, but for now I will let the matter rest.

If you say "quarktoo", I say "Gesundheit!".

[mark775]

"content matters more than form" That's a fact!

Cockatoo, I offloaded 4,500 pounds of fiberglass today, I'm tired and itchy and I'm gonna' go take a shower. It would be a very good opportunity for you if we could set up a game when I get back.

[troy2000]

Mark,

I've never been a rated player, but I used to play a fair-to-middlin' game of chess. And I have a membership on itsyourturn.com I haven't used for a while. If you'd like to play a pair of friendly games, join (it's free) and let me know what your user name is; I'll send you an invitation.

Itsyourturn.com is a turn-based setup, kind of like postal chess: you log in and move, then wait for the other guy to log in and move. I used to play there regularly years ago. Sometimes I'd go through a complete game with someone if we were online at the same time; sometimes I'd have an opponent who only moved every two or three days.

[troy2000]

Maybe if you didn't spend your useless time playing silly board games, you could use your problem solving skills to invent and engineer an alternative propulsion system which is what this thread is about.

Not only that, but if you were smarter, you would not have to do manual labor like a mule or an water buffalo in dire need of a shower.

Puzzle solving mass to atomic energy conversion is my game, disclosing that information to make the world a better place is my duty and crushing idiots that attack that science is my hobby.

You got checkmated after your first ignorance filled post and I was done with you then.
In other words, you can't play chess.:D

[FAST FRED]

"Airline fuel prices are subsidized to the airlines that they want to succeed as they reconsolidate the industry."


In the USA the only "subsidy" is the cost of fuel comes off profits IF made , like the cost of everything like the aircraft , landing fees, pilots pay, de icing..

Where can we see this nuclear hydrogen operating tech in a lab with measurements?

Anywhere in the world , or just internet vapor?

The Tolkamac is still not making the energy it takes to turn it on.

FF

[dskira]

Based on the picture, I am older than you and have several grandchildren that are more mature than most of you.

The mods of this forum could ban me anytime they want and I could care less.

While it is only speculation, most people that set up a web site have a few brain cells as it takes above average IQ to set up PHP, MySQL and get SMF installed especially on a IIs server.

So my guess is the mod actually has a functioning brain, is capable of reading and has cross checked some of the information I have disclosed and thought to themselves hum... This guy is obviously for real and figuring out how to power a boat around the world on the water that it floats on is more valuable than all the good old boy chat and group think that you cheerleader types do.

Another aspect is that this site was relatively dead until I came along and now it is a flurry of posts. Why? Because you like to play with me. How else could you explain why you are here in a thread that was dead for years making post after post?

For what it is worth, I truly don't take any of this personally. I would love to see you all doing your thing aboard a water powered vessel. First I must teach you to read and comprehend, then you have to learn some math for the engineering and finally you have to put it all together into a prototype once I have you up to a sixth grade public school level. :-)

Five years to go, dig in boy.

How my Gods now we have Einstein.
IQ thru the roof, the forum is now interresting because of quartoo, his grandchildren are more intellingent than us.
Why are you spending so much time with idiots like us quarktoo, why did you tell us your name coward with an IQ of 20.
So you knwe how to make children, whaoo that science. Bet you divorced by know.
You are old, but of course you are wiser. Ok go changes your pampers and come back old man with an IQ of 20 (thru the roof)
Math and engineering, whaoo, this is new to the whole population.
Cross checked information, is what says all the ignorants, thinking they will look clkever by saying that.
I cross checked your informations: pathetic, a repetition of Wikipedia.
You are a fake, ok, an old fake.
Daniel

[yipster]

guess youre rite again dskira but dont get uptight guy's
perhaps not HHO technology but gas from water, (waterfuel) may well be our future fuel
strange its harder to find good up to date H info than HHO crab and cars on a long electricity cords

[apex1]

guess youre rite again dskira but dont get uptight guy's
perhaps not HHO technology but gas from water, (waterfuel) may well be our future fuel
strange its harder to find good up to date H info than HHO crab and cars on a long electricity cords

No doubt mate,

we will see something in that way in the (probably near) future. We have seen the industry trying and trying again.
Even adding plain water did function to some extend, and that´s already 25 years ago. It was given up, like so many other projects and concepts, for a simple reason:
it is not as efficient as todays systems.
But time and science go ahead, nothing can stop them, we will see something similar in future.
By then, we see the idiotic crusaders like Kristine and quack troll, promoting their premature "insider" knowledge.

Cheers
Richard

[wardd]

i have a better idea to get fuel

lets say we drill a hole in the ground and find some black gooey stuff now suppose through several steps of distillation we extract a clear flammable substance

stuff if science fiction i know but what if?

[quarktoo]

i have a better idea to get fuel

lets say we drill a hole in the ground and find some black gooey stuff now suppose through several steps of distillation we extract a clear flammable substance

stuff if science fiction i know but what if?

Na it would never work. Some banker types would claim that it is binding up the Earth's CO2, blame it on the black stuff when in reality it is the Sun and some hacked data and then figure out a way to tax the sunlight.

My plan is better since it actually adds O2 to the atmosphere. But hey! I like that fact that you are trying to create a new idea with some wild and crazy out of the box thinking. The church of the sub-genius is clearly your path to salvation.

http://www.subgenius.com/

[sigurd]

For what it is worth, I truly don't take any of this personally. I would love to see you all doing your thing aboard a water powered vessel. First I must teach you to read and comprehend, then you have to learn some math for the engineering and finally you have to put it all together into a prototype once I have you up to a sixth grade public school level. :-)

Five years to go, dig in boy.


Bring it on


Even adding plain water did function to some extend, and that´s already 25 years ago. It was given up, like so many other projects and concepts, for a simple reason:
it is not as efficient as todays systems.

Check out what the speed-guys are doing in the salt lakes and such. injecting water to make a harley go faster than a hayabusa. Don't you have a BMW or something? The water in this case is to delay the onset of detonation due to high boost.

Edit: Bonneville reference : http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/hotnews.htm

[quarktoo]

"Bring it on" is so provocative. O.K.

Water injection is not water fuel. They are two entirely different subjects only to be confused, by the confused.

[sigurd]

Hello, quark2, It was not my intention to provoke. Bring it on in this case, means, I'm listening, go ahead, or something to that approximate effect.

I know that water injection is not the same as the subject of this thread; "water fuel", "HHO" or nuclear stuff. Hence, I wrote "The water in this case is to delay the onset of detonation due to high boost." It was a comment to Richard, that water injection is not given up on.

[quarktoo]

Sorry Sigurd, my my sincere apologies.

My confusion statement was not directed at you, it was directed at the person you quoted since water fuel according to Stan Meyer would take his 55 HP dune buggy from LA to New York on 22.5 gallons of water which is far more effecient than hydrocarbon based fuels.

What percentage of hydrogen peroxide he was using I have no clue. I suspect it was well below 50% as 80% is considered rocket grade and what NASA uses to boost the space shuttle. It is also highly dangerous as we all know from watching the Challenger disaster.

The stuff you buy in stores is 3% and you can buy up to 50% (food grade) without a license.

I am not entirely sure that the fuel needs to be condensed into a liquid state as Meyer had no way of freeze prevention on the hoses going to the injectors. The water tank itself did contain what appears to be a magnetron driven linear accelerator to address freezing.

I have high quality photos of nearly all aspects of his water car and photos that only a few have seen as well. Unfortunately, in order to get the photos, I had to agree to not share them and I keep my agreements.

That being said, I did a PCB layout and schematic which I would share freely with any engineer interested in replication. The piezo in the injector will be the difficult part.

On a related note, Meyer found that the tapered piezo would also pump water with very little energy input and planned to build submarines powered by them. I suspect the reason he was thinking submarine is that if water or something is not against the piezo ceramic, they tend to crack at resonance.

From what I can see, the resonant steam tank is the best bet for a boat.

Meyer also invented a motionless generator which he demonstrated to the pentagon and others. I suspect I know how it worked but would need to do more experiments to validate that.

I think a electric motor powered by nano particles would be pretty sweet on a nice boat. I replicated the basis for another free energy motor but it is in the early stages still. NASA and the DOE are evaluating it now so I suspect it will be suppressed soon as that is the pattern.

Personally, I think a person would be smart to stay with gasoline as a battery charging source and then use an electric motor that was at least 99% efficient. Gas is reliable, safe and if not used in large quantities, relatively cheap in most parts of the world. There are suppressed motor, battery and charging technologies that have been suppressed that absolutely rock.

But for the larger vessel, ultrasonic steam boiler, a Tesla turbine and good heat exchanger would be the way to go.

For the novice - the Pogue carburetor can be made in a weekend.

Without picking my brain, that is what comes to mind as far as a marine application is concerned. Consider it brought on. :)

EDIT - Flynn's parallel path magnetic motor was suppressed but would be easy to replicate. He is doing the usual dog and pony show for the military and will sell an under unity copy to civilians from what his web site states. It is based on the flux switching that the early magnetic "moon boots" used. Simple stuff and would be easy to build.

[sigurd]

q2: there seems to be a lot of different concepts mentioned to my untrained eyes. I'll go and ponder for a awhile. Thank you.

[quarktoo]

q2: there seems to be a lot of different concepts mentioned to my untrained eyes. I'll go and ponder for a awhile. Thank you.

Sigard,

here is another one that has been around for about 40 years

http://pappengine.com/

Here is another one that comes to mind
http://www.angellabsllc.com/

So efficient that it will run on steam and air using a plasma ignition from what I understand. He won the NASA create the future award with it.

EDIT -
Imagine an engine the size of a car alternator that puts out more power than a V-8. 40 times the power to weight ratio and far more fuel efficient.
- EDIT

Plasma spark plugs (suppressed but you can make them yourself) will double the mileage on an engine.

So you don't have to get radical or expensive to cut fuel costs dramatically.

[WestVanHan]

.....80% (hydrogen peroxide-WVH) is considered rocket grade and what NASA uses to boost the space shuttle. It is also highly dangerous as we all know from watching the Challenger disaster.


The boosters are APCP (solid fuel) and the main uses LOX (liquid O2) and LH2 (liquid H2)

The only H2O2 on the shuttle is used to treat cuts.

Not too much for a few years,but have been building solid rockets for 20 years...

[quarktoo]

The boosters are APCP (solid fuel) and the main uses LOX (liquid O2) and LH2 (liquid H2)

The only H2O2 on the shuttle is used to treat cuts.

Not too much for a few years,but have been building solid rockets for 20 years...

Huh.. You could be right as you can see the gas vent off the tank and the tank is insulated. I have different information from other sources that say otherwise but you are probably right.

Maybe they were referring to the smaller maneuvering jets? I have not been to the cape since I was a child. Both my grandparents worked there and I used to get to go with my grandpa to the VAB and watch them build apollo rockets and satellites. Pretty cool stuff for a kid.

H2O2 is used in many liquid rocket fuels and is cleaved using silver mesh, that I am pretty certain of. Here is a good document on the X1B and near the end you can see the catalyst section.

Thanks for the correction.

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/pdf/87696main_TND-185.pdf

[WestVanHan]

Thanks for the correction.


Not a big deal.

High test H2O2 is just too volatile...the tiniest organic contaminant will cause a massive chain reaction/explosion.

My great uncle worked for Messerschmitt and was around the 163's a lot.
He said that many just vaporized on the strip,and all they'd find of the pilot was bone fragments.

If they landed with any amount of fuel in the tanks there was a 75% chance of explosion.

I seem to remember 83% H202 in the 163.

[sigurd]

Hi q2, I have seen the MYT on the web - I like. I have made sketches of a similar principle but where the pistons drive/are driven by cams or roller tracks in place of gears, and the cylinders are more like a partial butterfly valve than a full toroid (maybe not so similar after all but huge displacement/weight).
There are a few other engines I think deserves attention as well, even though it is off topic I'll mention a few.
Ball piston engine, www.convergence-eng.com under "other projects". Looks very good once the diameter is 12" or more (due to stroke loss in the smaller sizes).
Scroll expander, common compressor principle.
Jerry Hale rotary engine, check out youtube.
These are just a few that has struck my fancy.

With regards to plasma plugs, that is indeed very interesting, as I'm interested in making detonation engines. The Quasiturbine pages have some basic introduction/viewpoints on this topic. There is also a working resonance/detonation driven tangential turbine: www.ttengines.com

When you say that plasma plugs will double the mileage, is that due to detonation? In that case, I am not sure a normal car engine can withstand the pressure/velocity/heat? I am told that during deflagration there is a boundary layer of relatively still and cool air next to the cylinder walls and piston, which protects them, but that detonation engulfs/removes this protective gas layer.

Regarding gas, I'll make my own if necessary, am currently fiddling with my versions of the Luciastove gasifying stove. www.worldstove.com and youtube.

I'll check out the papp site, and also come back with more questions, about your previous post. Meanwhile, could you perhaps explain more about the plasma plugs?

[quarktoo]

Not a big deal.

High test H2O2 is just too volatile...the tiniest organic contaminant will cause a massive chain reaction/explosion.

My great uncle worked for Messerschmitt and was around the 163's a lot.
He said that many just vaporized on the strip,and all they'd find of the pilot was bone fragments.

If they landed with any amount of fuel in the tanks there was a 75% chance of explosion.

I seem to remember 83% H202 in the 163.

Yes that sounds accurate as 80% is called rocket grade if I recall. Your uncle was telling the truth about the organics causing the H2O2 to react. The pilots own blood becomes part of the explosive reaction.

Germany was light years ahead of the rest of the world back then in manufacturing and technology. Imagine what the world would be like if we did not suppress technology for military and their destructive Zionist wars.

We could use some of that money to educate my fellow US citizens. :-) I hate living in the US for that reason - wars, stupid people and debt are about we produce any more.

We have produced a lot of technology but many of our best inventors came from other countries. When the US was more free, we attracted more of those good people and that gave us an edge along with a robust oil business that allowed us to convert energy into products and profit.

Most of that edge is being lost now and I fear our best days are behind us. Too much corruption from the very top to the very bottom.

What is the highest altitude you have reached with one of your rockets?

[quarktoo]

Hi q2, I have seen the MYT on the web - I like. I have made sketches of a similar principle but where the pistons drive/are driven by cams or roller tracks in place of gears, and the cylinders are more like a partial butterfly valve than a full toroid (maybe not so similar after all but huge displacement/weight).
There are a few other engines I think deserves attention as well, even though it is off topic I'll mention a few.
Ball piston engine, www.convergence-eng.com under "other projects". Looks very good once the diameter is 12" or more (due to stroke loss in the smaller sizes).
Scroll expander, common compressor principle.
Jerry Hale rotary engine, check out youtube.
These are just a few that has struck my fancy.

With regards to plasma plugs, that is indeed very interesting, as I'm interested in making detonation engines. The Quasiturbine pages have some basic introduction/viewpoints on this topic. There is also a working resonance/detonation driven tangential turbine: www.ttengines.com

When you say that plasma plugs will double the mileage, is that due to detonation? In that case, I am not sure a normal car engine can withstand the pressure/velocity/heat? I am told that during deflagration there is a boundary layer of relatively still and cool air next to the cylinder walls and piston, which protects them, but that detonation engulfs/removes this protective gas layer.

Regarding gas, I'll make my own if necessary, am currently fiddling with my versions of the Luciastove gasifying stove. www.worldstove.com and youtube.

I'll check out the papp site, and also come back with more questions, about your previous post. Meanwhile, could you perhaps explain more about the plasma plugs?

The plasma plugs I was referring to are called Firestorm. I don't know a lot about the details other than what his web stated. Here is a primer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abwXApkLhbc

From what I remember, his web site went dead and he was bought out. You can buy plugs with a long extension on them for R&D. I have a source buried somewhere.

You can make your own gas from natural gas if you have a source. Many places on Earth have natural gas wells a shallow as 200 meters. It is called Louis B. CHERRY

Electrical Production of Gasoline
http://www.rexresearch.com/1index.htm

Rexresearch.com is one of my favorite web sites. His CD cost about ten bucks and is well worth the archive of information on it.

I'll check into those engines more when I get time. Loved the wood stoves and the idea of not wasting 80% of the heat up the chimney. There are so many things we could do that require so little in terms of technology and resource it is a crime that we don't. Also the local production is key to other success for their economies. To top it off, they are beautiful!

[mark775]

Han and Sigurd - Have you no shame?

[quarktoo]

Sigurd,

The thing that I can't seem to get out of my head, besides the ultrasonic water heater, is Thane Heins lentz free motor generator.
http://www.youtube.com/user/ThaneCHeins

Windmill driven boat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNbNNSDljGI

I replicated Thane's experiment about 6 months ago and was impressed. I have a few ideas on how to make it work better and how to use that on a boat.

I saw a windmill powered boat on youtube where the windmill was chain driven to the prop. I have often wondered to myself if this would be possible to go directly into the wind. The inventor proved that it does and so I began to ask myself what would happen if we used that same principle with both a lentz free motor and generator.

You can watch Thane's experiments on youtube and you will see that the faster the motor goes, the faster it wants to go. That is indicative of a free energy device. For now I need to keep my improvements to myself so that someone does not patent it but this has huge potential since it is safe, cheap and easy for the average person to understand and replicate.

You can replicate any patent one time for personal use without violating intellectual property rights. That simple principle of the shorted coil has been used in many free energy devices in the past and it is the last thing you would ever think to do to an inductor.

[WestVanHan]

No shame for me.

Height of rockets- I'd rather not say.


Here's some fun:

http://www.skylighter.com/

http://www.firefox-fx.com/

Read the lit/book sections in particular.

Make your own smoke bombs that kickass on ones you buy for many times the cost.

[mark775]

Okay. Have fun here.

[quarktoo]

No shame for me.

Height of rockets- I'd rather not say.

Here's some fun:

http://www.skylighter.com/

http://www.firefox-fx.com/

Read the lit/book sections in particular.

Make your own smoke bombs that kickass on ones you buy for many times the cost.

I see a pattern here - you like things that go boom.

Got just the thing for you. Back when I first started playing with hydroxl gas, I decided to light a zip lock sandwich bag full in my garage. Lucky for me, my wife was not home and I didn't blow out the windows but came close.

Personally, I don't like things that go boom. It is the reason that I don't play with a free energy devices that uses hydrogen gas but this is fairly simple to build, understand and is validated.

http://jlnlabs.online.fr/mahg/index.htm

The high voltage breaks the weak hydrogen bond from H2 to H H and I suspect heat is generated because the copper reactor is a 1 turn shorted coil.

The Methernitha device probably uses the same principle and you can see a loose pickup coil on the tube at the top. The Methernitha state that it is dangerous and so there is probably an explosion possibility. I find it interesting but wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. It does no good to invent or replicate something that would be dangerous to yourself or others.

Magnetics are fun to wind and safe to play with such as Flynn parallel path magnetic flux switching or Than Heinz motor.

From what I have learned, any mass can be converted in any state of matter into the atomic energy contained within the mass and it appears that all free energy devices use this principle to operate.

[WestVanHan]

A bit off topic,but interesting:

18 years old,grew up on semi remote farm with mom and dad on 2 weeks holiday.
Eight garbage bags duct taped end to end to make one very long garbage bag.

Filled up with oxy/acetylene gas mix,taped the end off and laid out in the pasture 40 meters(?) from garage,barn,house etc. on top of bunch of newspaper.Lit paper and ran off close to barn with full face Skidoo helmet and ear plugs.

Two minutes later there was a microsecond flash of a shock wave going out radially and heading to me-I thought someone walloped me in the chest and almost fell down.With the sound of the most horrendous BOOOOOOOOM

Powdered all the windows in the barn,garage,and equipment shed.
Kind of scorched for 10 meters around,weeds and clumps of earth torn from ground.
I had a bit on me,and was on the barn-a powdered semi dry cow plop that came along for the ride.

Fixed the windows,parents never knew.

Years later I discovered that oxygenated acetylene is a detonating explosive and that the shock wave can have a propogation speed of up to 15-20 times the speed of sound....

DO NOT try this.

[apex1]

Check out what the speed-guys are doing in the salt lakes and such. injecting water to make a harley go faster than a hayabusa. Don't you have a BMW or something? The water in this case is to delay the onset of detonation due to high boost.


There is hardly a older hat to find on the scene Sigurd!
We had bilgewater injection, in the commercial shipping in Germany, already in the 80ies! MTU, not known for low tech crap had a complete engine line (based on the 93) capable of 15% water in the emulsion. Came never to the market, issues, issues, problems, trouble.
All nice in the books and maybe on a Sunday afternoon in Bonneville.
In a boat or ship, nor worth talking, it is proven that it does NOT work reliable and troublefree.

Regards
Richard


Plasma spark plugs (suppressed but you can make them yourself) will double the mileage on an en.

Quite impressive to see, that ALL of these idiots are of the same religion!

If they cannot show a working sample, the technique is "suppressed" by the industry....

What do you believe you half baked dumbass? When CAT had a tiny chance to screw MTU forever, the they would process crocodile pee, digested by the own board of directors, to do so.
But our dreamers are all sure the industry worldwide, including the Indian and Chinese, sticks together to suppress their clever inventions.

You are mentally not intact quack troll, go back to the nurse and receive your medication and lullabye.

[FAST FRED]

"I hate living in the US for that reason - wars, stupid people and debt are about we produce any more."

The door is still open,Paradise Awaits, elsewhere.BY BY

FF

[troy2000]

There is hardly a older hat to find on the scene Sigurd!
We had bilgewater injection, in the commercial shipping in Germany, already in the 80ies! MTU, not known for low tech crap had a complete engine line (based on the 93) capable of 15% water in the emulsion. Came never to the market, issues, issues, problems, trouble.
All nice in the books and maybe on a Sunday afternoon in Bonneville.
In a boat or ship, nor worth talking, it is proven that it does NOT work reliable and troublefree.

Regards
Richard
They had water injection systems way back on WWII fighter planes. But it wasn't because the water became fuel, as I've had people claim (I'm sure you know better).

The fighters used superchargers to compress intake air, and the air heated as it compressed. So a squirt of water, or alcohol-water mix, was used to cool the air, thereby lowering cylinder temperatures and giving a temporary boost during combat maneuvers--particularly at high altitudes. It made for a more efficient burn, and prevented detonation ("knocking"). And I would imagine the humidified air also expanded better in the pistons during combustion to give more power, although I haven't had anyone tell me so.

The natural gas pumping station I work at has huge "air washers" about twelve feet across for each of its original old compressor engines (installed in 1948), for the same purpose. The intake air flows through a bed of marbles that are sprayed with water. If an air washer goes down, we can tell in the control room, because the monitored cylinder 'pyro's' (exhaust temps) on a unit go up, and the brake horsepower goes down.

But we aren't under any illusions that the water is actually being cracked and burned....;)

[apex1]

They had water injection systems way back on WWII fighter planes. But it wasn't because the water became fuel, as I've had people claim (I'm sure you know better).

But we aren't under any illusions that the water is actually being cracked and burned....;)

You´re right Troy (though of course you meant the air expands in the cyl.s not pistons)

The effect is mainly cooling the head and allowing to burn more fuel.
There is more O² in a given volume of water than in the plain air (especially in high altitude).
Then, a volume of water (mist) expands by a factor of 1:1600 roughly, when it becomes steam, that sucks a enormous heatload out of the heads.

We have a "waterfuel" since we have electricity. We can handle it safe to some extend, as everybody knows.
But we cannot use it in a sensible way aboard yachts and ships, as everybody knows.

Anything else is nappy poopers dream....................
and will remain so, as long as one of us is alive.


btw. I edited my former post....:D

[quarktoo]

A bit off topic,but interesting:

18 years old,grew up on semi remote farm with mom and dad on 2 weeks holiday.
Eight garbage bags duct taped end to end to make one very long garbage bag.

Filled up with oxy/acetylene gas mix,taped the end off and laid out in the pasture 40 meters(?) from garage,barn,house etc. on top of bunch of newspaper.Lit paper and ran off close to barn with full face Skidoo helmet and ear plugs.

Two minutes later there was a microsecond flash of a shock wave going out radially and heading to me-I thought someone walloped me in the chest and almost fell down.With the sound of the most horrendous BOOOOOOOOM

Powdered all the windows in the barn,garage,and equipment shed.
Kind of scorched for 10 meters around,weeds and clumps of earth torn from ground.
I had a bit on me,and was on the barn-a powdered semi dry cow plop that came along for the ride.

Fixed the windows,parents never knew.

Years later I discovered that oxygenated acetylene is a detonating explosive and that the shock wave can have a propogation speed of up to 15-20 times the speed of sound....

DO NOT try this.

"with full face Skidoo helmet and ear plugs." I does paint a picture of a young scientist.

oxy/acetylene is used in the vortex cannons
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyAyd4WnvhU

But I doubt it has the propagation of this which is probably less than 20ml of water:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=391_1230079211

You can tell by the reaction of the crowd that they were surprised. It is probably the fastest burn rate of gas out there and that combustion could have been roughly doubled with some high voltage.

I want to see a vortex cannon powered by HHO. The problem would be keeping it in the cannon unless you used a gas bag of some sort to hold it in place.

[quarktoo]

sigurd

If you look closely at the firestorm plasma plug, you see that there is a coating on the plug. I suspect it is thorium that has been sputter coated.

Thorium is an alpha emitter and the gray color is what it looks like after being exposed to air for a few months.

So probably the ball and cage alone is not going to get the effect but thorium is easy to obtain and you can find someone to sputter the thorium if that is what it is. I haven't looked into it in any detail.

[troy2000]

You´re right Troy (though of course you meant the air expands in the cyl.s not pistons)

The effect is mainly cooling the head and allowing to burn more fuel.
There is more O² in a given volume of water than in the plain air (especially in high altitude).
Then, a volume of water (mist) expands by a factor of 1:1600 roughly, when it becomes steam, that sucks a enormous heatload out of the heads.

We have a "waterfuel" since we have electricity. We can handle it safe to some extend, as everybody knows.
But we cannot use it in a sensible way aboard yachts and ships, as everybody knows.

Anything else is nappy poopers dream....................
and will remain so, as long as one of us is alive.


btw. I edited my former post....:D

Yep, I meant cylinders.

Bad fingers! Bad fingers! Pay attention to what I meant when you're typing! [slaps fingers with ruler....]

[FAST FRED]

An interesting side effect of water injection on racing cars is a huge reduction in carbon deposits.

When folks had fast cars in the 60's & 70's it was common for carbon deposits to raise the octane requirements above std HI Octane at the pump.

The cure was a simple bug sprayer , and about 15 min of running 2000rpm and pumping enough water thru the carb to cause stumbling.

A newspaper under the tailpipe would collect pretty big chunks!

And the price was right!

FF

[brian eiland]

Steam cleaning the inside of engines....I remember that.

[brian eiland]

"The Capstone CMT-380 is a fun hybrid car with tremendous performance. Although it is not in Capstone's business plan to start manufacturing complete cars, the limited production CMT-380 and Langford Whisper hybrid demonstration vehicle are intended to showcase the technology and demonstrate value proposition of microturbines as electric vehicle range extenders," added Jamison. "Both Capstone and Langford have been in discussions with automotive industry companies, and these concept and demonstration vehicles help showcase the technology and generate public awareness of the benefits of microturbine technology."

http://www.microturbine.com/news/story.asp?id=536

[brian eiland]

http://www.fuelvaporcar.com/html/technology.html

[brian eiland]

I was very intrigued with this idea for 'hydrogen storage'...don't store it, create it on demand

I knew of this company (Millennium Cell) that was working very hard on the solutions, but in my search today I discovered they went into bankruptcy. That's a shame, but a sign of these current economic times.

Here is a PDF I found on the subject.

[quarktoo]

What do you believe you half baked dumbass? When CAT had a tiny chance to screw MTU forever, the they would process crocodile pee, digested by the own board of directors, to do so.
But our dreamers are all sure the industry worldwide, including the Indian and Chinese, sticks together to suppress their clever inventions.



Not sure if that Chinese link will work so here is the text. Maybe apex is only half wrong on this one. Time will tell.

http://benjaminfulford.typepad.com/benjaminfulford/2009/11/%E4%B8%AD%E5%9B%BD%E3%81%A7%E7%A7%98%E3%81%8B%E3%81%AB%E6%96%B0%E3%81%97%E3%81%84%E9%87%91%E8%9E%8D%E3%82%B7%E3%82%B9%E3%83%86%E3%83%A0%E3%81%8C%E5%A7%8B%E3%81%BE%E3%81%A3%E3%81%9F.html

China quietly introduces new financial system

China has stealthily introduced a new financial system based on the renminbi which is well on its way to becoming fully convertible, according to a high-level Chinese source. In addition, China is purchasing 10,000 tons of gold to back up a new fund designed to develop and market heretofore forbidden and suppressed technologies. The fund will be based outside of China and will be controlled by prominent members of the Chinese overseas community. The gold purchase will take some time because of the logistics of transporting it and the Chinese wish to test it thoroughly. Both the Chinese government and MI6 now confirm reports that much of the gold sold by the Federal Reserve Board over the past decade is in fact gold plated tungsten.

For its part, the renminbi is now convertible with South American currencies, the rouble, Middle-Eastern currencies, the yen, South East Asian currencies and African currencies. “We will slowly introduce our new financial system in parallel with the old one and hope that people steadily migrate towards it,” the Chinese official says.

Meanwhile, the latest G20 meeting ended in acrimony and chaos. The leadership of the West is in total disarray and will remain so until the Federal Reserve Board’s bankruptcy becomes visible even to brainwashed section of the Western public. This is now expected by January or February. Both MI6 and a senior Chinese government source now predict the collapse of the Federal Reserve dollar by that time.

We are also hearing various reports that many Pentagon and other US alphabet suit agency figures with both US and Israeli citizenship have recently fled to Israel. Things are coming to a head.

Here is a pretty good list of suppression:

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Suppression

[dskira]

Not sure if that Chinese link will work so here is the text. Maybe apex is only half wrong on this one. Time will tell.

http://benjaminfulford.typepad.com/benjaminfulford/2009/11/%E4%B8%AD%E5%9B%BD%E3%81%A7%E7%A7%98%E3%81%8B%E3%81%AB%E6%96%B0%E3%81%97%E3%81%84%E9%87%91%E8%9E%8D%E3%82%B7%E3%82%B9%E3%83%86%E3%83%A0%E3%81%8C%E5%A7%8B%E3%81%BE%E3%81%A3%E3%81%9F.html

China quietly introduces new financial system

China has stealthily introduced a new financial system based on the renminbi which is well on its way to becoming fully convertible, according to a high-level Chinese source. In addition, China is purchasing 10,000 tons of gold to back up a new fund designed to develop and market heretofore forbidden and suppressed technologies. The fund will be based outside of China and will be controlled by prominent members of the Chinese overseas community. The gold purchase will take some time because of the logistics of transporting it and the Chinese wish to test it thoroughly. Both the Chinese government and MI6 now confirm reports that much of the gold sold by the Federal Reserve Board over the past decade is in fact gold plated tungsten.

For its part, the renminbi is now convertible with South American currencies, the rouble, Middle-Eastern currencies, the yen, South East Asian currencies and African currencies. “We will slowly introduce our new financial system in parallel with the old one and hope that people steadily migrate towards it,” the Chinese official says.

Meanwhile, the latest G20 meeting ended in acrimony and chaos. The leadership of the West is in total disarray and will remain so until the Federal Reserve Board’s bankruptcy becomes visible even to brainwashed section of the Western public. This is now expected by January or February. Both MI6 and a senior Chinese government source now predict the collapse of the Federal Reserve dollar by that time.

We are also hearing various reports that many Pentagon and other US alphabet suit agency figures with both US and Israeli citizenship have recently fled to Israel. Things are coming to a head.

Here is a pretty good list of suppression:

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Suppression

It seams the end of the world scenario. It looks quite a paranoia.
The collapse of the Federal Reserve is quite an old story.
Under Reagan it was dumn to collapse then almost every year it was predict to collapse.
I don't know, it collapse so much that it should not exist anymore.
But I can't read the future, so let see. If it collapse, for real this time, in January or February, well you are right.
If not I was, and I will pass the question to my kids; Do you know when the federal Reserve should collapse, and they will say: next years:D
And if it's true, what I will say to them . I will be f............:eek:
Cheers
Daniel

[quarktoo]

It seams the end of the world scenario. It looks quite a paranoia.
The collapse of the Federal Reserve is quite an old story.
Under Reagan it was dumn to collapse then almost every year it was predict to collapse.
I don't know, it collapse so much that it should not exist anymore.
But I can't read the future, so let see. If it collapse, for real this time, in January or February, well you are right.
If not I was, and I will pass the question to my kids; Do you know when the federal Reserve should collapse, and they will say: next years:D
And if it's true, what I will say to them . I will be f............:eek:
Cheers
Daniel

The part that caught my eye was the duel citizens freeing to Israel. In the last 6 months, I have read the Intel, Microsoft and Google are all moving their HQ to Israel. I have always said you would know the end of the American dream was near when Jews quietly slip out of the US with what is left of the loot. An economic collapse, revolution and pandemic would be how I suspect they will cover their tracks.

China is the pink elephant in the room that nobody seems to notice. As nations go, they dwarf everyone else in terms of size, population and manufacturing capability. If they ever decide to expand their borders in a bold way, only a massive war that the world could not survive would stop them.

It seems to me that this has been their long term agenda as they manufacture large neutron bombs designed only to kill soft targets leaving the wealth and infrastructure intact. One thing is for sure, we live in interesting times, we are not being told the truth and we are not represented by our government.

The clean break road map calls for a funding source for Israel other than who has historically provided the bulk of their wealth - the US economy. Someone has a plan and we are not in it.

[troy2000]

....Intel, Microsoft and Google are all moving their HQ to Israel....

....Both the Chinese government and MI6 now confirm reports that much of the gold sold by the Federal Reserve Board over the past decade is in fact gold plated tungsten.

Excuse me? I'm going to wave the bullshirt flag here....don't believe everything you read:p:p:p

[dskira]

The part that caught my eye was the duel citizens freeing to Israel. In the last 6 months, I have read the Intel, Microsoft and Google are all moving their HQ to Israel. I have always said you would know the end of the American dream was near when Jews quietly slip out of the US with what is left of the loot. An economic collapse, revolution and pandemic would be how I suspect they will cover their tracks.


Would you rephrase this sentence. It is quite antisemitic, and I feel unconfortable with it.
The fault of the Jew is also a very old story.
I was in a school and broad up with a zero tolerance for generality about other religions, colors, peoples.
Don't be antisemite, be larger than that, don't beleive what destroy the world once and continue right now.
Perhaps I misunderstand your quote. I hope.
Cheers
Daniel

[troy2000]

Would you rephrase this sentence. It is quite antisemitic, and I feel unconfortable with it.
The fault of the Jew is also a very old story.
I was in a school and broad up with a zero tolerance for generality about other religions, colors, peoples.
Don't be antisemite, be larger than that, don't beleive what destroy the world once and continue right now.
Perhaps I misunderstand your quote. I hope.
Cheers
Daniel

What else would you expect from a paranoid conspiracy theorist?

I don't think you misunderstood him at all, Daniel. Instead of dealing with his own inadequacies, he'd rather believe Jews are the reason he isn't rich, good-looking and successful with women.

The amazing thing is how much of this sort of crap floats to the top of the septic tank, especially in parts of the country where there's a good chance the idiot posting has never even met a real, live Jew.

I think I've already mentioned my old Beverly Hills girlfriend from thirty years ago, who told me, "if there's a Jewish conspiracy secretly running the world, I really need to talk to someone. Because I'm not getting my piece of the action...."

edit: This is very strange. Out of idle curiosity, I googled my old girlfriend's name and her mother's name. They were both very active in the Los Angeles area live theater movement, but I didn't get a single hit.

[dskira]

What else would you expect from a paranoid conspiracy theorist?

I don't think you misunderstood him at all, Daniel. Instead of dealing with his own inadequacies, he'd rather believe Jews are the reason he isn't rich, good-looking and successful with women.

The amazing thing is how much of this sort of crap floats to the top of the septic tank, especially in parts of the country where there's a good chance the idiot posting has never even met a real, live Jew.

I think I've already mentioned my old Beverly Hills girlfriend from thirty years ago, who told me, "if there's a Jewish conspiracy secretly running the world, I really need to talk to someone. Because I'm not getting my piece of the action...."


I know what you mean.
in New York it is difficult to don't meet a Jewish person. And I feel its bad to say that, I should even don't have to mention it. You don't say I have a Jewish friend, you say I have a friend. Period.
My point is: human are human, the rest is irrelevant. Nomination by race, color, religion, beleif, should be not on the mind of anybody.
I give quarktoo the benefice of the doubt and a chance to explain is post more thoroughly.
If it is realy antisemite, his place should not be here for ever. But I am not the owner of this forum, so I can't speak for him, I am a guest like everybody else in this forum. So I can't decide for other.
Cheers
Daniel

[apex1]

What did you assume Troy?

15, empty face, fat, playing with his 3cm.

I think I like to agree, but lets reduce the figures by one digit ok?

Regards
Richard

[quarktoo]

Excuse me? I'm going to wave the bullshirt flag here....don't believe everything you read:p:p:p

Kind of a long read for you, but do your best. It could be bull but there are two well document cases that prove otherwise. The London Bullion heist back in the 80's now the latest Asian discovery.

People that collect coins and trade in precious metals are some of the smartest people I know. You can know a nations history by it's money.

http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/kirby/2009/1112.html

http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/willie/2009/1118.html

So many nations are dumping their dollar reserves the fed stopped reporting the M3. The Rothchilds sold the gold fixing institution to the US and I suspect it is to reduce their liability in the scam.

There is clearly something going on.

[dskira]

Kind of a long read for you, but do your best. It could be bull but there are two well document cases that prove otherwise. The London Bullion heist back in the 80's now the latest Asian discovery.

People that collect coins and trade in precious metals are some of the smartest people I know. You can know a nations history by it's money.

http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/kirby/2009/1112.html

http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/willie/2009/1118.html

So many nations are dumping their dollar reserves the fed stopped reporting the M3. The Rothchilds sold the gold fixing institution to the US and I suspect it is to reduce their liability in the scam.

There is clearly something going on.

I am sorry quarktoo, your answer dodge the bullet, and I am disapointed.
Could you please explain your position and your attitude about the Jew.
Please read my post, and I would like a clear answer from you, not an ambiguous one. This is not a game, it is serious.
In waiting reading your explanation of your post #74.

[troy2000]

Kind of a long read for you, but do your best. It could be bull but there are two well document cases that prove otherwise. The London Bullion heist back in the 80's now the latest Asian discovery.

People that collect coins and trade in precious metals are some of the smartest people I know. You can know a nations history by it's money.

http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/kirby/2009/1112.html

http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/willie/2009/1118.html

So many nations are dumping their dollar reserves the fed stopped reporting the M3. The Rothchilds sold the gold fixing institution to the US and I suspect it is to reduce their liability in the scam.

There is clearly something going on.
What's clearly going on is that you're slinging cowchips. Your "proof" is two articles from a paranoid website, neither of which actually names the Federal Reserve Board.

And I'd love to see a list of the "many Pentagon and other US alphabet suit agency figures with both US and Israeli citizenship [who] have recently fled to Israel." As a matter of fact, why don't you give the name of just one person from the Pentagon who has done so?

[dskira]

What's clearly going on is that you're slinging cowchips. Your "proof" is two articles from a paranoid website, neither of which actually names the Federal Reserve Board.

And I'd love to see a list of the "many Pentagon and other US alphabet suit agency figures with both US and Israeli citizenship [who] have recently fled to Israel." As a matter of fact, why don't you give the name of just one person from the Pentagon who has done so?

And quarktoo answering Troy2000 will be also necessary. To the point, not going around. It is a very legitimate and direct question which deserve a very accurate answer.

[mark775]

I have to leave it to you, guys. After this vile piece of s--t ranked on everyone here but with emphasis on comparison to his own "tremendous" grasp of language, I humiliated him for two days but the moderator removed all of my most pertinent posts. I now believe that the way to get him to leave is to make no positive replies to anything he says. There are some people that would chat with a child-rapist, I'm sure - as long as the act was in the past and "he's being nicer now".

[troy2000]

Oh, I dunno, Mark. It's think it's good to occasionally remind folks that there really are people like this out there. And the more rope we give him, the worse he makes himself and his beliefs look.

[quarktoo]

And quarktoo answering Troy2000 will be also necessary. To the point, not going around. It is a very legitimate and direct question which deserve a very accurate answer.

There have been many wealthy Jews that have made aliyah and many more that at least have duel citizenship. That point would be impossible to argue. Google - the sum of all knowledge and founded and owned by two Jews.

Wall Street, the central banks, elected government officials and the mass media are dominated by Zionist Jews largely due to ethnic nepotism funded by celtral banks that print money backed up by debt. The fact that around 470 members of our congress voted to suppress the Goldstone report makes that case regarding their control of the government.

People are individuals and should be treated as such. That being said, Judaism is an ethnocentric religion and so they tend to act as a global organization which gives them an advantage over homogeneous ethnic groups. This is one reason they attack anyone that tries to illuminate that fact.

The quote from the article I pasted in simply pointed out that China, which is also very ethnocentric and getting worse by the day, may act to counter our corrupt financial system and that could be the clash of two titans with a battle fought by the ignorant masses per the norm.

Israel is poor in natural resources like water, minerals and crop land. They tend to earn their money off drugs, software, nano-tech, electronics, etc., things that are not resource intensive. Intel, Microsoft, etc. have plants in Israel.

Read "The Confessions of an Economic Hit man" for an illuminating look into the international banking system. Look at what just happened in Copenhagen with what could only be described as a revolution led by China. It is reality and we can't buy or bomb our way out of it.

I am no more anti-Jew than I am pro organized crime. It was a post regarding possible geopolitical and economic instability in the near future. The fact that the US economy is teetering on collapse is also not disputed by anyone that can add and subtract.

[troy2000]

Couldn't give me a single name, could you?:)

Instead of backing up anything you've said, you simply made a whole new list of unsupported assertions. I'm sorry, but you can't make lies become the truth simply by telling more lies.....

[masrapido]

Not that anyone cares, but the subject of this thread was meant to be the Gas from Water, (WaterFuel), HHO technology...

But, please continue with your rants on politics and conspiracies... Funny reading from most. False political correctness and moralising postures on both sides.

[troy2000]

Not that anyone cares, but the subject of this thread was meant to be the Gas from Water, (WaterFuel), HHO technology...

But, please continue with your rants on politics and conspiracies... Funny reading from most. False political correctness and moralising postures on both sides.

We aim to please, mas. Glad you're enjoying yourself.

It must be wonderful to be able to look down on both sides of every argument....:rolleyes:

[dskira]

I have always said you would know the end of the American dream was near when Jews quietly slip out of the US with what is left of the loot.

You didn't answer correctly, you dodge again.
You wrote:
I am not against Jew
Doesn't mean anything at the end of a long post against the Jew disguise in rethoric on economy.
I quote you again
Wall Street, the central banks, elected government officials and the mass media are dominated by Zionist Jews largely due to ethnic nepotism funded by celtral banks that print money backed up by debt.

I gave you ample opportunity, and the benefice of the doubt. You didn't take it. You just hammer the nail deeper.
I am leaving this thread, it make me sick to my stomac, that people like you still exist.
If you can live with this kind of thought your life must be miserable
And as a patented antisemite you make me cry.
You are what I thought has been dispearing in the dark, but the hiddous head of racism is there, named quarktoo, in your little room behing your computer.

[mark775]

Perhaps...I have an idea...
Masrapido, quisiera presentarle a Cacatúa. Cockatoo, I present the inestimable MasRapido. (exchange emails - Good luck).

[hoytedow]

Many religions are "ethnocentric". If you want to be a Hindu, you must be born into it. You cannot just join. Religion is the glue that helps hold societies together, which is why it is attacked so much by those who want to see societies crumble, giving them the opportunity to sweep in and construct a utopian model of their own design.

[quarktoo]

Many religions are "ethnocentric". If you want to be a Hindu, you must be born into it. You cannot just join. Religion is the glue that helps hold societies together, which is why it is attacked so much by those who want to see societies crumble, giving them the opportunity to sweep in and construct a utopian model of their own design.

While see your point and agree that it is a valid point in that religion has held societies together, it has also torn societies apart and is a tool used to pacify societies prior to conquering them.

Not sure what would be worse, living under a radical religious country or under a corporate police state or an oligarchy mislabeled communism.

I suppose that was the beautify of the republic we had in the US founded on a constitution and bill of rights. The four pillars of democracy have been ignored for so long they have crumbled from lack of maintenance.

The tree of liberty must from time to time, be refreshed with the blood of patriots and tyrants. - Thomas Jefferson

[troy2000]

a

The tree of liberty must from time to time, be refreshed with the blood of patriots and tyrants. - Thomas Jefferson

I remember that quote; Timothy McVeigh had it on one of his tee shirts. He killed children, with that as his justification. I'm not impressed.

[quarktoo]

Many religions are "ethnocentric". If you want to be a Hindu, you must be born into it. You cannot just join. Religion is the glue that helps hold societies together, which is why it is attacked so much by those who want to see societies crumble, giving them the opportunity to sweep in and construct a utopian model of their own design.

I think you improperly defined ethnocentric which would be easy to do based on the construct.

From Webster:
"characterized by or based on the attitude that one's own group is superior."

Not sure if the Hindu feel this way but that is clearly taught in the Talmud. I don't have a feeling one way or the other whether it is good or bad, probably both, but I see that attitude in both Jewish and modern Chinese culture and wonder if it is a recipe for conflict well made.

All that said, this thread is about HHO and alternative propulsion as someone pointed out and I curse the post that I gave those that can't have that conversation anyway, something to chew on.

In fact, this thread is quite pointless for that reason.

Ref:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ethnocentric

[mark775]

Then you're leaving?

[masrapido]

We aim to please, mas. Glad you're enjoying yourself.

It must be wonderful to be able to look down on both sides of every argument....:rolleyes:

Troy, it's a bit of a bugger to have every thread turning into a political/religious stand off...

[Kay9]

This should be a dead thread. Were it not for the idiot Quack Also...I mean Quack Ahsole. Wait Im sure I can spell it correctly here ...Idget.. Yep thats it.

Like I was saying if it wasnt for his assanine ideas and belief he is the power messiah we wouldnt have anything here at all. I put him on ignore a few pages back. I suggest the rest of you do the same. He will simply dissappear.

K9

[quarktoo]

This should be a dead thread. Were it not for the idiot Quack Also...I mean Quack Ahsole. Wait Im sure I can spell it correctly here ...Idget.. Yep thats it.

Like I was saying if it wasnt for his assanine ideas and belief he is the power messiah we wouldnt have anything here at all. I put him on ignore a few pages back. I suggest the rest of you do the same. He will simply dissappear.

K9

So far, all you and your fellow retards have have contributed is your willful ignorance and repeated cries for people to not contribute or post on this website. One could make the case that the unwashed masses are "ethnocentric" as they go through life with the inverted sense of reality that a damaged id based ego produces. Troy even wears it like a badge of merit in his tag line. "Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level, then beat you with experience." Unfortunately Troy has no "experience" with alternative energy sources and is finding it difficult to "drag" those that are not already at his level, down to it.

BTW - You missed the boat on "wasnt" "assanine" "wouldnt" "dissappear" - Ironic isn't it?

If you didn't make my case with your every post, you could at least learn to spell and the definition of "ethnocentric".

Here is an example of how to use it in a sentence:

The ethnocentric attitude that belief and ignorance are superior to thoughtful discussion, is simply the expression of an idiot that does not function beyond the fight or flight fear based brain stem of a *****.

You could at least click on the Google ads below the post as that helps support the cost of the web site. At least then your presence would have some value.

Maybe if you were smarter, you wouldn't be sitting on 37' of rotting wood wishing you were out fishing for squid?

[Kay9]

I would rather sit on 37' of rotting wood then be in the same room with you.

Your primary contribution to the world is to convert O2 into CO2.

K9

[yipster]

cant and wont spell nor ignore, think quarktoo gave some good info, as did some others, water injection ever try'd on a plasma sparkplug? hot enough water will burn but as it looks like we spare time energy messiases have to crack the nut for peace time purposes. intersting article on fairly unique water bond splitting, sort of similar to things i read on sugar bonds. i for one was happy to see this thread come alive again. sorry to see -dispite my request- things go personal etnic religious and what not

[mark775]

Sheesh! Yipster, are you mad?

[quarktoo]

cant and wont spell nor ignore, think quarktoo gave some good info, as did some others, water injection ever try'd on a plasma sparkplug? hot enough water will burn but as it looks like we spare time energy messiases have to crack the nut for peace time purposes. intersting article on fairly unique water bond splitting, sort of similar to things i read on sugar bonds. i for one was happy to see this thread come alive again. sorry to see -dispite my request- things go personal etnic religious and what not

The sugar bond light flashes are usually referred to wintergreen effect since kids use wintergreen lifesavers to demonstrate it.

I taught a kid next door about the platonic solids by growing sugar crystals mixed with wintergreen. I figured since kids are constantly searching for sugar to fuel their high energy requirements, I would use sugar to teach her about platonic solids.

I discussed that bond cleaving technique last night at a Christmas party with a relative who is a third year chemistry and physics student. It was quickly dismissed but she was unable to grasp the concept that acceleration is the key to mass to energy conversion and they don't teach that in school.

Yipster, I could less about a persons spelling if they are trying to contribute in a positive way. Stanley Meyer was a high school dropout that couldn't spell either. He invented the biggest thing humans have ever had an opportunity to use even though he most likely borrowed most of it from Dr. Puharich.

Many people have tried to figure out what that big metal box on the back of his dune buggy was with the circular nickel plates in it were. It was probably an ozone generator that was eventually replaced with a laser ozone generator the size of a gallon can.

Attached are some photos of Meyer's water fuel system and the process I have been trying to describe.

[mark775]

"this thread is quite pointless..." So you are leaving?

[quarktoo]

The first photo, is the air gas processor which is a laser ozone generator. You can see the current protection resistors as the cover is off. Here is a diagram of what is inside.

The rocket surgeons that claim Meyer was a fraud also must claim the US patent office is a fraud since a free energy device must be demonstrated in order to get the patent.

The patent office did everything they could for years to block Meyer but finally he was able to get the patents through proof that demonstration provides.

[quarktoo]

Wrong Thread

[quarktoo]

"this thread is quite pointless..." So you are leaving?

If it were not for Arab oil, the US would have ZERO strategic interest in the middle east and Israel would not get 30+ billion a year of US foreign aid.

Without US military and financial support, Israel would cease to exist. Ever wonder why free energy devices are opposed by some people so strongly? You get to pay for being ripped off.

By the third day of the US invasion into Iraq, oil was being pumped to Hafia Israel from Iraq through the Rothschild pipeline that Saddam had shut down. The meters were removed from their oil terminals and money from the stolen oil sits in accounts on Wall Street.

Over 1 million Iraqis were killed with our last illegal invasion based on lies and 10's of thousands of gentiles were killed in the war that has no end in sight.

Muslims defending their country and what some zionists have referred to as "useless feeders", which are uneducated gentiles, killing each other for Israel's stolen oil is a win win for them.

The new offshore ICE that illegally jacks up the futures price of oil is your reward for paying for all that. Enjoy!

[WestVanHan]

If it were not for Arab oil, the US would have ZERO strategic interest in the middle east and Israel would not get 30+ billion a year of US foreign aid.

Without US military and financial support, Israel would cease to exist.



You have that right,what would happen to them?

They'd be killed,which would make your heart happy-as do these videos,I have no doubt:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64r-iWoTsX8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjbJnZUJTYU




Over 1 million Iraqis were killed with our last illegal invasion based on lies and 10's of thousands of gentiles were killed in the war that has no end in sight.




That's odd,it ranges from 100k to 160k

[troy2000]

If it were not for Arab oil, the US would have ZERO strategic interest in the middle east and Israel would not get 30+ billion a year of US foreign aid.

Without US military and financial support, Israel would cease to exist.

Originally Posted by quarktoo View Post
The part that caught my eye was the duel citizens fleeing to Israel. In the last 6 months, I have read the Intel, Microsoft and Google are all moving their HQ to Israel. I have always said you would know the end of the American dream was near when Jews quietly slip out of the US with what is left of the loot. An economic collapse, revolution and pandemic would be how I suspect they will cover their tracks.

So if the US is facing economic collapse, revolution and pandemic, who's going to protect those people when they get to Israel with their ill-gotten loot?

C'mon. The average comic book does a better job of keeping its story lines straight than you do.....:p:p:p

[masrapido]

Wrong Thread

That applies to just about everything that is written here...

[quarktoo]

You have that right,what would happen to them?

They'd be killed,which would make your heart happy-as do these videos,I have no doubt:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64r-iWoTsX8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjbJnZUJTYU

That's odd,it ranges from 100k to 160k

No it would not make my heart happy. Most Israelis are like most US citizens in that they are opposed to the policies of their governments but you never get to read about that in the news.

As for the Muslim and whatever he is being accused of (I didn't watch the videos) I am opposed to all war except flame wars. :-)

There is no official death count just as here in the US the media lies about or suppresses the death count of US soldiers and contractors.

It is your typical long winded article but the estimates are as high as 1.2 million and from the article that cites the many polling data sets:

http://www.alternet.org/world/77992/

"The WHO and Lancet studies are just two of many Iraqi casualty estimates, though their having used the "cluster sampling" approach preferred in volatile regions, and having gone through the peer review process, make them particularly compelling. The same week that the WHO paper was published, the British polling firm ORB released a revised estimate of 1.03 million Iraqi deaths from all causes, "as a result of the conflict," from March 2003 to August 2007."

The data is old and so the numbers have obviously gone up.

Add to that the 2 million that died of 41,000 bombing raids between the two wars to destroy the electrical, sewer treatment and water treatment plants... BTW - 500,000 of them were children that died of dysentery which was the objective, the number goes up more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbIX1CP9qr4

Add to that the DU cancer deaths and birth defects and infant mortality, you get into the millions of deaths numbers.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=2374

"If terrorists succeeded in spreading something throughout the U.S. that ended up causing hundreds of thousands of cancer cases and birth defects over a period of many years, they would be guilty of a crime against humanity that far surpasses the Sept. 11th attacks in scope and severity. Although not deliberate, with our military campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan, we have done just that. If the physical environment is so unsafe and unhealthy that one cannot safely breath, then the outer trappings of democracy have little meaning. At least under Saddam, the Iraqi people could stay healthy and conceive normal children. Few Americans are aware that in getting rid of Saddam, we left something much worse in his place."

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x480bh_usas-horrifying-depleted-uranium-de_news

Now what seems worse to you, some Muslim talking about killing americans or the genocide of millions of mostly innocent people using WMD in a war started on lies about WMD?

We know what Saddam had for WMD, we still have the receipts and he piled up and gave back what was left over during the first gulf war. The US has never stood trial for selling WMD, training Iraq and supplying advisers when Iraq attacked Iran on behalf of the US and committed a genocide using those WMD.

Seek reality and if you can't find that, seek therapy.

[quarktoo]

That applies to just about everything that is written here...

Including what you just wrote. Unlike you, I have actually contributed something to the discussion of HHO propulsion.

Funny how in your last post you were complaining about how people were off topic and then one post later became one of those people.

[quarktoo]

So if the US is facing economic collapse, revolution and pandemic, who's going to protect those people when they get to Israel with their ill-gotten loot?

C'mon. The average comic book does a better job of keeping its story lines straight than you do.....:p:p:p

The Israelis have an illegal nuclear arms program with somewhere between 114 to 200 warheads and a very large military. I am pretty sure they can take care of themselves but hey, why not get a dumb gentile to die for them while stealing oil for them and then send the US the trillion dollar bill for it?

I'm pretty sure the comic book reference explains the source of your fictional world and empty arguments.

[FAST FRED]

In the last 6 months, I have read the Intel, Microsoft and Google are all moving their HQ to Israel.

Since the USA has the highest corp taxes in the world , it makes sense for businesses to "Vote with their Feet".

Ireland has about the lowest taxes and a modestly educated work force , would be my destination if I ran a US company.

Easier to keep competitive when collecting 10% taxes for the dead hand of gov than 35% for the US employer of last resort .

FF

[quarktoo]

In the last 6 months, I have read the Intel, Microsoft and Google are all moving their HQ to Israel.

Since the USA has the highest corp taxes in the world , it makes sense for businesses to "Vote with their Feet".

Ireland has about the lowest taxes and a modestly educated work force , would be my destination if I ran a US company.

Easier to keep competitive when collecting 10% taxes for the dead hand of gov than 35% for the US employer of last resort .

FF

Hum...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_around_the_world

While that is what you may have heard, alternative minimun corporate taxes, 45,000 pages of tax code filled with loop holes, etc.

Look at the wiki page:
Barbados[7] 40%
Zambia 35%
Pakistan 35%
Israel 27%
United States 15-39% (federal) 0-12% (state)

Intel pays the State of Oregon around $250.00 per year in Alternative minimum tax. JP Morgan was recently in the news because they pay $10.00...

I remember AT&T one year getting 500 million in rebates and paying zero being in the news. Tax exempt status quietly being handed out to many.

The personal income tax in the US is a farse. You pay hundreds of taxes on everything you buy. A loaf of bread has over 250 taxes on it and the farmer got 3 cents for the wheat.

If we had a flat tax and the people of this country ever woke up to how much we pay and how little we get compared to some others, there would be a tax revolt.

If the people had to pay their taxes on a single day instead of it being deducted from our pay... again, revolution.

If the people in this country ever figured out how much we pay in interest rate to a private corporation called the federal reserve who pays zero taxes, inflates our money which is a tax on the past, present and future of everything you made in all three time contexts, revolution.

If the people ever figured out how much of the budget really goes to the military industrial complex, several times the pentagon budget, we would vote out of office anyone that even suggested a war.

Going to have to disagree with you on that one Fred. Corruption in this country between wall street scum and Washington is wrecking everything.

Google General Tire -v- IRS. It states that the IRS is a private corporation registered in Puerto Rico.

It is all a big scam made possible by mindless sheeple. Our problem is our economic system is too profitable and every redneck would have two million dollars worth of boats and campers in the front yard if people got paid what they produced. We don't the natural resources to sustain that consumption especially when planned obsolescence is built into the durable goods we buy. They have rat holed trillions into CAFR accounts.

[mark775]

The important thing is that, messed up as he is, you people are discussing things with him and he is staying longer than he otherwise would.

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by quarktoo >>
If it were not for Arab oil, the US would have ZERO strategic interest in the middle east and Israel would not get 30+ billion a year of US foreign aid.

Without US military and financial support, Israel would cease to exist.The Israelis have an illegal nuclear arms program with somewhere between 114 to 200 warheads and a very large military. I am pretty sure they can take care of themselves but hey, why not get a dumb gentile to die for them while stealing oil for them and then send the US the trillion dollar bill for it?

I'm pretty sure the comic book reference explains the source of your fictional world and empty arguments.
Make up your mind, son.

[quarktoo]

Make up your mind, son.

My mind is well made, you are the one that needs to develop one.

There is a difference between economic survival and national defense. I know that being critical thinking challenged and functionally illiterate makes it impossible for you to comprehend those differences and is why you should take my advice and read more and post less.

BTW - Steorn is planning to release their free energy device near the first of the year that utilizes acceleration produced by pulse compression like the Thane Heins process I described in an earlier post.

SteornOfficial's Channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/SteornOfficial

...and for all the Nazi hunters, even Hitler had something to say about it. Ironically, unless you actually know some history, the difference is zero.

Hitler reacts to Steorn's demo and launch of Orbo!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRk5ea5pA5Y

I toy with you the way cat toys with a little mouse just before the mouse gets eaten. Thanks for posting more of your willful ignorance and belligerence, I was getting hungry for a meal of rodent meat.

[masrapido]

Including what you just wrote. Unlike you, I have actually contributed something to the discussion of HHO propulsion.

Funny how in your last post you were complaining about how people were off topic and then one post later became one of those people.

In your excited shortsighted manner you cannot tell the difference between someone like yourself posting "truth" and someone like myself being tired of reading about your political frustrations in a thread where it does not belong.

And something tells me that even the resident retard will now have something "smart" to say...

[quarktoo]

In your excited shortsighted manner you cannot tell the difference between someone like yourself posting "truth" and someone like myself being tired of reading about your political frustrations in a thread where it does not belong.

And something tells me that even the resident retard will now have something "smart" to say...

Cause and effect - I know it is a stretch, but you have to actually look at where it started and look at the cause. You jump into the middle of a thread, elect yourself judge and jury and then complain that your are "tired of reading about your political frustrations". If you are tired of reading, stop reading, go somewhere else. You have contributed ZERO to the discussion of waterfuel and I have contributed everything from a description of the process to photos of the equipment.

It is a strange reality you live in, or you are like so many others that have an agenda to suppress waterfuel.

[apex1]

The important thing is that, messed up as he is, you people are discussing things with him and he is staying longer than he otherwise would.

Funny, is´nt it?.......:D

[mark775]

Good grief!

[quarktoo]

Good grief!

You get what you resist.

[masrapido]

It is a strange reality you live in, or you are like so many others that have an agenda to suppress waterfuel.

A lot of silly assumptions and zero substance. Yes, of course I have an agenda. It is called "sails".

Free and always present. There's a good reason why sailing boats are by far faster than engine-fitted boats around the world. Just look at the crossing times.

Meyer invented nothing. He simply, in the best of anglosaxon nature, stole ideas from others and sold them under the "god told me" concept that works so well on so many idiots.

Puharic and Horvath were the first to describe the process. From there meyer went on to pretend he invented something. Yet if you look at his patents and his "results" he even goes to employ a laser....

Now, for a laser you need so much energy that any "surplus" he claimed he achieved, would just not be enough to power the laser.

But, to help you understand better why Meyer is just another chirstian hypocrite, here's something you should consider, if you have enough gray matter available.

Meyer claimed that he was breaking water by producing the "resonant frequency" of the water cell.

Two problems with that: smaller one - what the **** a laser does to help producing the frequency? The answer: nothing.

Why?

Because of the second, bigger problem: the resonant frequency of the water molecule is so HIGH that his "apparatus", as claimed in his patents (only a *****, and those are abundant in the usa, could give him a patent for that) could NOT produce it. In fact, the resonant frequency of the covalent bond between the H2 and O2 can only be produced in a SMALL number of extremely well equipped labs around the world because it also requires a lot of energy.

Now, before you start barking your "intellectual" response, please read this over and over until you understand it. Research the covalent bond frequency, resonant frequency of the water molecule and then compare requirements to produce such frequency with what the hypocrite claims.

I could also remind you of one simple thermodynamical fact when it comes to the HHO as an additive to petrol or diesel: when a petrol or diesel fuel burns the reaction is explosive, creating expansion of gasses that move the pistons.

Did you get that? A boom reaction. That is because you are essentially breaking the long-chained molecules into a smaller ones. Hence so many toxic gasses behind your car/boat.

Now, when you burn hydrogen, the reaction si NOT explosive. It is the opposite. It is essentially IMPLOSION. No expansion here. Just shrinkage.

Did you get THAT? Implosion is when you are combining smaller molecules into a larger one. That essentially, due to the shrinkage, creates a vacuum.

Pure thermodynamics.

I'll leave it to you to figure out what happens when you combine explosion with implosion.

A (far-fetched) hint: think of mathematics. Plus and minus. Or chemistry: acids and caustics.

By the way, adding water vapour and/or hydrogen to diesel engines is nothing new. Hydrogen, in small quantities and when added in the right moment to the diesel cycle, helps the burning of the fuel, increasing diesel efficiency.

The key is SMALL quantities, to avoid the negative effect of implosion.

Old stuff well known and used for decades on merchant ships to help reduce costs. But reduction is quite small. At best 10%, usually around 5-6%.

There has got to be a good reason why such, or similar, technologies are not taking off.

[quarktoo]

A lot of silly assumptions and zero substance. Yes, of course I have an agenda. It is called "sails".

Free and always present. There's a good reason why sailing boats are by far faster than engine-fitted boats around the world. Just look at the crossing times.

Meyer invented nothing. He simply, in the best of anglosaxon nature, stole ideas from others and sold them under the "god told me" concept that works so well on so many idiots.

Puharic and Horvath were the first to describe the process. From there meyer went on to pretend he invented something. Yet if you look at his patents and his "results" he even goes to employ a laser....

Now, for a laser you need so much energy that any "surplus" he claimed he achieved, would just not be enough to power the laser.

But, to help you understand better why Meyer is just another chirstian hypocrite, here's something you should consider, if you have enough gray matter available.

Meyer claimed that he was breaking water by producing the "resonant frequency" of the water cell.

Two problems with that: smaller one - what the **** a laser does to help producing the frequency? The answer: nothing.

Why?

Because of the second, bigger problem: the resonant frequency of the water molecule is so HIGH that his "apparatus", as claimed in his patents (only a *****, and those are abundant in the usa, could give him a patent for that) could NOT produce it. In fact, the resonant frequency of the covalent bond between the H2 and O2 can only be produced in a SMALL number of extremely well equipped labs around the world because it also requires a lot of energy.

Now, before you start barking your "intellectual" response, please read this over and over until you understand it. Research the covalent bond frequency, resonant frequency of the water molecule and then compare requirements to produce such frequency with what the hypocrite claims.

I could also remind you of one simple thermodynamical fact when it comes to the HHO as an additive to petrol or diesel: when a petrol or diesel fuel burns the reaction is explosive, creating expansion of gasses that move the pistons.

Did you get that? A boom reaction. That is because you are essentially breaking the long-chained molecules into a smaller ones. Hence so many toxic gasses behind your car/boat.

Now, when you burn hydrogen, the reaction si NOT explosive. It is the opposite. It is essentially IMPLOSION. No expansion here. Just shrinkage.

Did you get THAT? Implosion is when you are combining smaller molecules into a larger one. That essentially, due to the shrinkage, creates a vacuum.

Pure thermodynamics.

I'll leave it to you to figure out what happens when you combine explosion with implosion.

A (far-fetched) hint: think of mathematics. Plus and minus. Or chemistry: acids and caustics.

By the way, adding water vapour and/or hydrogen to diesel engines is nothing new. Hydrogen, in small quantities and when added in the right moment to the diesel cycle, helps the burning of the fuel, increasing diesel efficiency.

The key is SMALL quantities, to avoid the negative effect of implosion.

Old stuff well known and used for decades on merchant ships to help reduce costs. But reduction is quite small. At best 10%, usually around 5-6%.

There has got to be a good reason why such, or similar, technologies are not taking off.

Thank for your lengthy display of ignorance. Now I am going to feed it back to you one bite at a time.


A lot of silly assumptions and zero substance. Yes, of course I have an agenda. It is called "sails".

Free and always present. There's a good reason why sailing boats are by far faster than engine-fitted boats around the world. Just look at the crossing times.

Yeah right... When your sail boat goes faster than a cigarette boat, you can make that idiotic claim. Your sail boat doesn't move at all when there is no wind. To compare a sail boat to an oil tanker is idiotic - like you.


Meyer invented nothing. He simply, in the best of anglosaxon nature, stole ideas from others and sold them under the "god told me" concept that works so well on so many idiots.

You probably don't know the differences between the processes as you clearly don't know the processes at all. There is some truth you the borrowed part and that is what inventors do.


Puharic and Horvath were the first to describe the process. From there meyer went on to pretend he invented something. Yet if you look at his patents and his "results" he even goes to employ a laser....

Now, for a laser you need so much energy that any "surplus" he claimed he achieved, would just not be enough to power the laser.

Wrong again... Meyer used solid state lasers around 5 watts in the near infra red region which oxygen best absorbs at that band. It is used to cleave the O2 in order to create the ozone.

Now if you count the current limit resisters in the air gas processor, (that would require the critical thinking of a 6 year old) you see there are 3 set of 7 for a total of 21 solid state lasers for a total of 105 watts draw on a 55 HP engine which produces 41,010 watts of power for a gain of 40,905 watts minus other small losses..

Since you can't do your own math, I did it for you. So far you have proven you don't know anything about sails verses motor boats, waterfuel, math and lasers.


here's something you should consider, if you have enough gray matter available.

Meyer claimed that he was breaking water by producing the "resonant frequency" of the water cell.

Two problems with that: smaller one - what the **** a laser does to help producing the frequency? The answer: nothing.


Wrong again mouth breather... The laser is used in the production of ozone to break double covalent bonding of the O2 molecule. As Meyer stated, the laser excites the molecule and the covalent bond is weakened or switched off. It does not produce a frequency and is a common knowledge in electrochemistry. Both electrons and photons are quarks - hence the interchangeability and my username.

So far you have proven you don't know anything about sails verses motor boats, waterfuel, math, lasers and chemistry.


Why?

Because of the second, bigger problem: the resonant frequency of the water molecule is so HIGH that his "apparatus", as claimed in his patents (only a *****, and those are abundant in the usa, could give him a patent for that) could NOT produce it. In fact, the resonant frequency of the covalent bond between the H2 and O2 can only be produced in a SMALL number of extremely well equipped labs around the world because it also requires a lot of energy.


Per the norm, more stupid. A magnetron, something found in every microwave oven in nearly every kitchen in the industrialized world, is fully capable of generating that frequency by only changing the size of the "resonant cavity".

In fact, that is how that commonly get's done other than some exotic science experiment involving lasers but then that is over your head.

Meyer could not obtain the patent without a full demonstration at the patent office.They actually have people that know about math, science, chemistry, lasers, etc.

The resonant frequency of water at an atomic level is just over 23 GHZ. The resonant frequency water water at a mechanical or acoustic level is below 10 KHZ depending on how you want the molecule to stretch.

You are clueless.


I could also remind you of one simple thermodynamical fact when it comes to the HHO as an additive to petrol or diesel: when a petrol or diesel fuel burns the reaction is explosive, creating expansion of gasses that move the pistons.

Did you get that? A boom reaction. That is because you are essentially breaking the long-chained molecules into a smaller ones. Hence so many toxic gasses behind your car/boat.

Now, when you burn hydrogen, the reaction si NOT explosive. It is the opposite. It is essentially IMPLOSION. No expansion here. Just shrinkage.

Did you get THAT? Implosion is when you are combining smaller molecules into a larger one. That essentially, due to the shrinkage, creates a vacuum.

Pure thermodynamics.


Meyer didn't burn pure hydrogen, didn't claim to and did not patent it. To my knowledge, pure hydrogen does not burn without fusion and Meyer did not produce a critical or even subcritical reaction and he stated that in one of his lectures.


I could also remind you of one simple thermodynamical fact


...but wait, there's more!


Pure thermodynamics.


Thermodynamics? Insert laugh here. I assume you are referring to the second law which does apply to an open system with an external source of fuel, hence the term watefuel.

As far as your scientific explanation of "a boom reaction", you crealy have ZERO experience with HHO. Since ****** like you learn best by watching TV to avoid hurting your poor widdle brain, here is a youtube video of some hydroxy explosions.

Notice how the pop bottle does not go backwards? Feel free to do your own experiments on that and please, use a lot of hydroxy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd6wUQbY6WU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2ZDcV9O70Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jq0BwYU506A

So far... you have proven you don't know anything about sails verses motor boats, waterfuel, math, lasers, chemistry and thermodynamics which is physics.


Did you get THAT? Implosion is when you are combining smaller molecules into a larger one. That essentially, due to the shrinkage, creates a vacuum.

Pure thermodynamics.

I'll leave it to you to figure out what happens when you combine explosion with implosion.


Wow... You just got outsmarted by a pop bottle filled with a drop of water.

I didn't see an implosion and nether has anyone else on this planet that lives in reality. You prove that you do not know the most basic things about hydrogen with that statement. The chemistry and physics ignorance was already pointed out.

Lets see here, with your words, so far you have proven you don't know anything about sails verses motor boats, waterfuel, math, lasers, chemistry, physics and hydrogen.


By the way, adding water vapour and/or hydrogen to diesel engines is nothing new. Hydrogen, in small quantities and when added in the right moment to the diesel cycle, helps the burning of the fuel, increasing diesel efficiency.

The key is SMALL quantities, to avoid the negative effect of implosion.

Old stuff well known and used for decades on merchant ships to help reduce costs. But reduction is quite small. At best 10%, usually around 5-6%.

There has got to be a good reason why such, or similar, technologies are not taking off.


Mixing water injection and hydrogen injection into the same comparison seems a bit silly since they are two very different things.

Adding HHO to a diesel cycle in any amount only increases the output.

The reason these technologies are not "taking off" is because of monopolization and suppression and the feeble minds of their unwitting minions - like you.

Maybe you should change your username to más estúpido since all you did was prove in black and white, that you don't know anything about sails verses motor boats, waterfuel, math, lasers, chemistry, thermodynamics, physics, hydrogen, Meyer, Puharich, Horvath or anything else you wrote about. You know... the subject at hand.

I am not going to go into finite details of what Meyer did since you lack the basic education to comprehend the information and do have a functioning mind capable of critical thinking.

Meyer invented far more than his a waterfuel process. Perhaps that is why he won Who's Who inventor of the year twice. How many times have you won that prize? So far, you have only won the "más estúpido :confused: " prize in this thread.

[masrapido]

What a beautiful display of stupidity and arrogance.

Made me laugh. I have to agree with the retard. You are a nut job and this is the last I am addressing you. Not a single thing you said is correct. And when it comes to the frequencies, you are an idiot with no brain.

The lowest resonance of the water molecule is 22.235 GHz. This frequency is almost 10 times higher than the operating frequency of the microwave oven (2.45 GHz). The BREAKING rezonant frequency is so high it cannot be produced in your car, *****.

Meyer DID talk about that particular frequency in your patents. Go read again, estupido.

And one last before I leave you to your mental traumas from the childhood (what is it, your father or your uncle molested you and now everyone is to blame?). 5 watss laser is NOT strong enough to produce effects Meyer claims in his patent. With five watts you can only burn a hole in your empty head after a few hours of patient trying. Water molecules disintegrate on temperatures so high your 5 watts cannot produce.

But as is clear now, you are just not intelligent enough to understand that.

Thermodynamics need no explanation. You cannot understand the science, that is clear. Even the retard is smarter than you. And he's just not smart...

Kisses, and make sure you perish in snow (water) somewhere. The world needs some good news finally.

[troy2000]

I'm not about to plough through that whole mess; I think you two deserve each other.

But if this exchange is typical, quicktool, you don't even know how to read:

Yeah right... When your sail boat goes faster than a cigarette boat, you can make that idiotic claim. Your sail boat doesn't move at all when there is no wind. To compare a sail boat to an oil tanker is idiotic - like you.

Because what masrapido said was:

There's a good reason why sailing boats are by far faster than engine-fitted boats around the world. Just look at the crossing times.
What does that have to do with cigarette boats? I don't know of any cigarette boats that have gone around the world....

[masrapido]

Hooray, another gentleman with self-acquired right to take high moral grounds...I could remind you of your own posturing just recently that would be fitting for the first two sentences, but will leave that to you to ponder over and re-think.

Glad to see you are able to read with attention and focus, at least...

[yipster]

ya i'm a ***** too but still read with interest

[kistinie]

All these talks should not happen.
They do happen only because state research on electromagnetic behaviour of water is cancelled or reserved for military or space use.

Nothing on pure fusion, nothing on water memory and electromagnetic behaviour, nothing on sonoluminescence, even on thermo acoustic basic pumping tech like this historic "belier" pumps certainly as old as mankind, also suppressed from schools !
Please open to facts.


http://pagesperso-orange.fr/energies-nouvelles-entreprises/ch12-71.htm

[apex1]

The Lunatic is back!

That makes a nice Christmas for the Quack........

[kistinie]

Merry Christmas to u all !
Did u missed me Apex ?
Sweet boy !

[quarktoo]

ya i'm a ***** too but still read with interest

Which is why you are not a *****.

[apex1]

Merry Christmas to u all !
Did u missed me Apex ?
Sweet boy !

So much, I gave you straight 25 positive points! So happy am I that our best proven Idiot is back!!!

[quarktoo]

What a beautiful display of stupidity and arrogance.

Made me laugh. I have to agree with the retard. You are a nut job and this is the last I am addressing you. Not a single thing you said is correct. And when it comes to the frequencies, you are an idiot with no brain.

The lowest resonance of the water molecule is 22.235 GHz. This frequency is almost 10 times higher than the operating frequency of the microwave oven (2.45 GHz). The BREAKING rezonant frequency is so high it cannot be produced in your car, *****.

Meyer DID talk about that particular frequency in your patents. Go read again, estupido.

And one last before I leave you to your mental traumas from the childhood (what is it, your father or your uncle molested you and now everyone is to blame?). 5 watss laser is NOT strong enough to produce effects Meyer claims in his patent. With five watts you can only burn a hole in your empty head after a few hours of patient trying. Water molecules disintegrate on temperatures so high your 5 watts cannot produce.

But as is clear now, you are just not intelligent enough to understand that.

Thermodynamics need no explanation. You cannot understand the science, that is clear. Even the retard is smarter than you. And he's just not smart...

Kisses, and make sure you perish in snow (water) somewhere. The world needs some good news finally.


Made me laugh. I have to agree with the retard. You are a nut job and this is the last I am addressing you. Not a single thing you said is correct. And when it comes to the frequencies, you are an idiot with no brain.

I am sure you and the retard have far more in common than you might know.


The lowest resonance of the water molecule is 22.235 GHz. This frequency is almost 10 times higher than the operating frequency of the microwave oven (2.45 GHz). The BREAKING rezonant frequency is so high it cannot be produced in your car, *****.

The only difference between the magnetron in microwave oven and a magnetron that produces 22.235GHZ is the size of the resonant cavity as I pointed out but you are too stupid to read.

So we can add to the list of things you have no clue about RF or the ability to spell "rezonant".



Meyer DID talk about that particular frequency in your patents. Go read again, estupido.

The primary frequency going to the MOT in your microwave is 60hz. The magnetron takes that high voltage and converts it to 2.45 GHZ. Wow you are clueless. I posted a picture of the resonant cavity. Notice the 40 prongs that appear to be copper colored? Maybe an appliance repairman can explain it to you, *****. It can be produced in an area the size of you thumb and will produce more energy than it uses since the water becomes fuel - just like Meyer claimed.

Meyer stated the resonant cavities were the size of your thumb - it was a clue that went over your head along with everything else.


Thermodynamics need no explanation. You cannot understand the science, that is clear. Even the retard is smarter than you. And he's just not smart...

2nd law of thermodynamics does not apply to the system as a whole since it is open as I stated.

But there is something we do agree on... The retard is just not smart.

[quarktoo]

All these talks should not happen.
They do happen only because state research on electromagnetic behaviour of water is cancelled or reserved for military or space use.

Nothing on pure fusion, nothing on water memory and electromagnetic behaviour, nothing on sonoluminescence, even on thermo acoustic basic pumping tech like this historic "belier" pumps certainly as old as mankind, also suppressed from schools !
Please open to facts.


http://pagesperso-orange.fr/energies-nouvelles-entreprises/ch12-71.htm

That is because the pump cavitates water which converts some of it into atomic energy. Good post and you are right, they have been around for a long time and these technologies are suppressed for military.

Funny how the military kept us enslaved and financially broke the US while the retards were claiming they were defending us.

[quarktoo]

I'm not about to plough through that whole mess; I think you two deserve each other.

But if this exchange is typical, quicktool, you don't even know how to read:



Because what masrapido said was:


What does that have to do with cigarette boats? I don't know of any cigarette boats that have gone around the world....

I didn't say cigarette boats had gone around the Earth, I said his comparison was silly.

But here retard, your world just got bigger. Perhaps más estúpido can point out the imaginary sails

Earthrace Breaks World Record June 27 2008
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jx2XUxz7K-o

[quarktoo]

What a beautiful display of stupidity and arrogance.

The BREAKING rezonant frequency is so high it cannot be produced in your car, *****.


Why yes, you did make a beautiful display of stupidity and arrogance.

Here are two photos of what is inside of Meyer's injector.

Notice how four resonant cavities fit in the space of you finger? Maybe you are just too stupid to know how big a car is?

Notice the 40 prong resonator to chop up the high voltage? Notice the magnet that sits below that resonator to swirl the high voltage through the prongs to produce that frequency? Notice the laser light filters? Notice the hole in the side of the plug where processed water and the electron stream enter? Notice how big it is based on the size of the injector itself and the size of the spark plug connector?

Unlike you who has nothing but stupid to display, I can post photos and prove what I say.

[masrapido]

Keep posting. You are only making a bigger fool of yourself. Photos are not proof that the technology works. But they are proof of your stupidity.
I am not using the word stupidity in a derogatory manner. It just so happens that it is the one really good word that describes your posts.

Go on, post some more. But be careful because "they" are following you. With their antennas...from the space and from "their" secret bases on ground where "they" are playing with themselves and those supressed "technologies"...!!!

It's only a matter of time when "they" will grab you off the street and do you good...

Stock up on food...maybe "they" are trying to poison you!

[quarktoo]

5 watss laser is NOT strong enough to produce effects Meyer claims in his patent. With five watts you can only burn a hole in your empty head after a few hours of patient trying. Water molecules disintegrate on temperatures so high your 5 watts cannot produce.



I missed some of your stupid but then there was so much...

The water is not burned and I never claimed that but you are obviously too functionally illiterate to read what I wrote.

The light is used to break the O2 bond as I claimed so it can be reformed into ozone (O3).

Look inside an ozone generator - you see an ultraviolet light source on the high end models. Not exactly something new.

Troy may not be all that smart but he keeps it to the pedantic banter of a 12 year old. IMO - That makes Troy smarter than you.

BTW - That would be watts not "watss".

[quarktoo]

Keep posting. You are only making a bigger fool of yourself. Photos are not proof that the technology works. But they are proof of your stupidity.
I am not using the word stupidity in a derogatory manner. It just so happens that it is the one really good word that describes your posts.

Go on, post some more. But be careful because "they" are following you. With their antennas...from the space and from "their" secret bases on ground where "they" are playing with themselves and those supressed "technologies"...!!!

It's only a matter of time when "they" will grab you off the street and do you good...

Stock up on food...maybe "they" are trying to poison you!

This is the kind of crap that idiots devoid of integrity, post when they have been debunked and exposed.

BTW - That would be "suppressed technologies" not "supressed "technologies"...!!!

[masrapido]

Bugger, I am so weak I just cannot resist when a fool gives me an opportunity.

Here's the "apparatus" that actually works, unlike your "suppressed technology":

And it works on a lot lower RADIO frequencies. This too is actually an old forgotten (meaning KNOWN) way of splitting the water. And it is simple to make and verify.

Unlike your moronic messiah Meyer. May Marx and Engels have a pity for another lost soul...

http://www.motortrend.com/features/editorial/112_0711_technologue/index.html

This is the simplest way to break the water with radio waves, but it is NOT overunity. The only person that MAY have achieved overunity is Dr. Kanarev,but he is not interested in selling his research any longer. However he did publish a lot of scientific papers on photosynthesis and nature's ways of breaking water in plants, if you can read and understand, even in english.

But now I am delusional...I hope you can understand...how silly of me.

[masrapido]

and for a supposedly "native" english speaker and self-declared proSpeller, you are a failure. Open word and write suPPressed, idiot.

It IS supressed, as I, the Chilean, wrote it.

Debunker...

[quarktoo]

[QUOTE=masrapido;326908]Bugger, I am so weak I just cannot resist when a fool gives me an opportunity.

Here's the "apparatus" that actually works, unlike your "suppressed technology":

And it works on a lot lower RADIO frequencies. This too is actually an old forgotten (meaning KNOWN) way of splitting the water. And it is simple to make and verify.

Unlike your moronic messiah Meyer. May Marx and Engels have a pity for another lost soul...

http://www.motortrend.com/features/editorial/112_0711_technologue/index.html

Do you really think you can post a link to something that is not overunity and use that to prove that Meyer's waterfuel wasn't overunity either?

That is like saying since sailboats don't move when there is no wind, motor boats don't either. What a *****!

[quarktoo]

and for a supposedly "native" english speaker and self-declared proSpeller, you are a failure. Open word and write suPPressed, idiot.

It IS supressed, as I, the Chilean, wrote it.

Debunker...

In English, which is the language you are writing in, it is spelled "suppressed" idiot.

Why don't you just Google your "supressed: and note how you get corrected. You probably have your MS Word progrem set to a Spanish dictionary and are too stupid to know that.

Too stupid to find Google and type that in? Here, I'll post a link for you.

http://www.google.com

Nice job of trying to quickly bury that waterfuel information under your ignorance again. You are not who or what you claim.

[hoytedow]

Masrapido,
Suprimido = suppressed.
I checked 2 sources. I still got your meaning, though, which is more important.

[quarktoo]

Masrapido,
Suprimido = suppressed.
I checked 2 sources. I still got your meaning, though, which is more important.

Yep! Google translate showed me the same thing. Hence my comment - "You are not who or what you claim." That is someone with an agenda to destroy, confuse and bury the subject of waterfuel.

[kistinie]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonoluminescence

http://www.seed.slb.com/voices_article.aspx?id=25550


This suggest water electrolysis is not just a fuel production, but more likely a complex change including gravitation modification. It really looks like if fuel extracted from water was electromagnetically "pumped" from our gravitational field.

You will note that the reverse statement works as a gravitational field can be compensated by an electric field. (1928 Patent)
http://jnaudin.free.fr/lifters/main.htm

[masrapido]

Masrapido,
Suprimido = suppressed.
I checked 2 sources. I still got your meaning, though, which is more important.

Hmmm...My spellchecker is set to UK english and it returns su P ressed as correct...It underlines su PP ressed with the green line (not an error, but not correct either).

In latin, where the word is coming from, supressed is written with one P. Just like in spanish, or supresso in italian. Happy being compliant with the original.

Just as usanians write color, yet it is coloUr in original english, or harbor, yet it is harboUr. Not to mention AlumiNIum...

[Dave Gudeman]

As a service to any non-technical readers who might stumble across this discussion, I thought someone should correct a few of the more egregious scientific errors here. Not that I expect anyone to actually read this far :) but I hate to see such bad science go unopposed except by more bad science.

First, masrapido's errors:

1. The terms "explosion" and "implosion" have nothing to do with the lengths of chains. You can burn a long-chain molecule without getting an explosion (that's what a kerosene lamp does, for example) and you can (very easily) get an explosion by burning hydrogen.

The difference between an explosion and an implosion is that an explosion results from a center that is at much higher pressure than ambient while an implosion results from a low-pressure center.

2. You can burn long-chain molecules without producing toxic gasses.

3. I don't know for sure if anyone actually adds hydrogen to the cylinder in production diesel engines but I very much doubt it, and masrapido's account of the chemistry and the pending "implosions" is certainly wrong. Note that adding water vapor is very different from adding hydrogen. Hydrogen would act as additional fuel. Water vapor would not.

Now for quarktoo:

1. Pure hydrogen does in fact burn without fusion. This is a purely chemical reaction: hydrogen burns in the presence of oxygen creating the chemical change 2 H2 + O2 => 2 H2O. This is a highly exothermic reaction, meaning that it produces a lot of energy.

2. The second law of thermodynamics certainly does apply to an open system. It applies to any reaction at all. The second law basically states that whenever work is done, the entropy of the universe never decreases. Thermodynamics is usually studied in closed systems because in a closed system things like energy change and entropy change can be measured, but the theory applies in general.

What I think Quarktoo is trying to say is that the second law does not apply to every part of the universe, it only applies to the universe as a whole. It is possible to decrease entropy in one part of the universe so long as entropy in the universe as a whole increases.

3. Quarktoo's device cannot give free energy. He is not using water as a fuel, but as a source from which to make fuel. Making fuel from water is possible, but breaking the bonds of water to get hydrogen and oxygen takes just as much energy as you get back by recombining them. Even if the process is 100% efficient at making fuel and 100% efficient at using fuel (nothing is really 100% efficient) then he has to use all of the energy he gets from the fuel to make more fuel. There is no energy left over to do any work.

[kistinie]

3. Quarktoo's device cannot give free energy. He is not using water as a fuel, but as a source from which to make fuel. Making fuel from water is possible, but breaking the bonds of water to get hydrogen and oxygen takes just as much energy as you get back by recombining them. Even if the process is 100% efficient at making fuel and 100% efficient at using fuel (nothing is really 100% efficient) then he has to use all of the energy he gets from the fuel to make more fuel. There is no energy left over to do any work.

Really ?


MHD and Z machine from Sandia showed the opposite with unexpected energy rise, very likely from...water.

The casimir effect tells us it is possible to get energy from water and it was demonstrated in many ways.

It is really just like discussing on the impossible OverUnity of a reversible air conditioning heater instead of getting the benefit of their COP around 3 with peace.

Highly Illogical captain Dave !

[hoytedow]

Hmmm...My spellchecker is set to UK english and it returns su P ressed as correct...It underlines su PP ressed with the green line (not an error, but not correct either).

In latin, where the word is coming from, supressed is written with one P. Just like in spanish, or supresso in italian. Happy being compliant with the original.

Just as usanians write color, yet it is coloUr in original english, or harbor, yet it is harboUr. Not to mention AlumiNIum...Good point. The English are seperated from the USAnians by a common language. However, with the ink we save by not writing all those extra u's, we can write a lot more p's.

[quarktoo]

As a service to any non-technical readers who might stumble across this discussion, I thought someone should correct a few of the more egregious scientific errors here. Not that I expect anyone to actually read this far :) but I hate to see such bad science go unopposed except by more bad science.

First, masrapido's errors:

1. The terms "explosion" and "implosion" have nothing to do with the lengths of chains. You can burn a long-chain molecule without getting an explosion (that's what a kerosene lamp does, for example) and you can (very easily) get an explosion by burning hydrogen.

The difference between an explosion and an implosion is that an explosion results from a center that is at much higher pressure than ambient while an implosion results from a low-pressure center.

2. You can burn long-chain molecules without producing toxic gasses.

3. I don't know for sure if anyone actually adds hydrogen to the cylinder in production diesel engines but I very much doubt it, and masrapido's account of the chemistry and the pending "implosions" is certainly wrong. Note that adding water vapor is very different from adding hydrogen. Hydrogen would act as additional fuel. Water vapor would not.

Now for quarktoo:

1. Pure hydrogen does in fact burn without fusion. This is a purely chemical reaction: hydrogen burns in the presence of oxygen creating the chemical change 2 H2 + O2 => 2 H2O. This is a highly exothermic reaction, meaning that it produces a lot of energy.

2. The second law of thermodynamics certainly does apply to an open system. It applies to any reaction at all. The second law basically states that whenever work is done, the entropy of the universe never decreases. Thermodynamics is usually studied in closed systems because in a closed system things like energy change and entropy change can be measured, but the theory applies in general.

What I think Quarktoo is trying to say is that the second law does not apply to every part of the universe, it only applies to the universe as a whole. It is possible to decrease entropy in one part of the universe so long as entropy in the universe as a whole increases.

3. Quarktoo's device cannot give free energy. He is not using water as a fuel, but as a source from which to make fuel. Making fuel from water is possible, but breaking the bonds of water to get hydrogen and oxygen takes just as much energy as you get back by recombining them. Even if the process is 100% efficient at making fuel and 100% efficient at using fuel (nothing is really 100% efficient) then he has to use all of the energy he gets from the fuel to make more fuel. There is no energy left over to do any work.

Hi Dave,

First I must say thank you for rising above the level of a 12 year old - how refreshing.

Now I shall clean up your errors - it's only fair.



1. Pure hydrogen does in fact burn without fusion. This is a purely chemical reaction: hydrogen burns in the presence of oxygen creating the chemical change 2 H2 + O2 => 2 H2O. This is a highly exothermic reaction, meaning that it produces a lot of energy.


I stated "pure hydrogen" not "hydrogen burns in the presence of oxygen."

That is a misquote on your part - don't do that. Hydrogen and oxygen are commonly called hydroxl, hho and water is the ash of that reaction when burned.

I stated "pure hydrogen", now maybe can explain what "pure hydrogen" reacts with in order to burn? I choose my words carefully and if I make a mistake, I own up to it.


2. The second law of thermodynamics certainly does apply to an open system. It applies to any reaction at all. The second law basically states that whenever work is done, the entropy of the universe never decreases. Thermodynamics is usually studied in closed systems because in a closed system things like energy change and entropy change can be measured, but the theory applies in general.


From wiki or any other definition I have ever seen:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics

"The second law of thermodynamics is an expression of the universal principle of entropy, stating that the entropy of an isolated system which is not in equilibrium will tend to increase over time."

The second law was written by men describing steam engines and fire and simply means that a steam engine cannot be used to generate electricity which in turn is used to generate more steam which in turn is used to generate more electricity, etc., i.e., perpetual motion.

Used in the context of how it was written and the purpose, I totally agree.

Since water is the fuel source and more water is added, it is not a isolated system and 2nd law does not apply.

Next to apply 2nd laww to everything, means there is no such thing as an "isolated system" which then relegates 2nd law to meaningless.

You don't get to use the laws of physics to suit your arguments or beliefs - they are what they are. If you really think you know everything about the universe, or can prove that their is only one, then you are the smartest scientist on Earth - I doubt that.


3. Quarktoo's device cannot give free energy. He is not using water as a fuel, but as a source from which to make fuel. Making fuel from water is possible, but breaking the bonds of water to get hydrogen and oxygen takes just as much energy as you get back by recombining them. Even if the process is 100% efficient at making fuel and 100% efficient at using fuel (nothing is really 100% efficient) then he has to use all of the energy he gets from the fuel to make more fuel. There is no energy left over to do any work.

The term "free energy" used in the context of the discussion is defined as "economic free energy" water IS consumed and IS the fuel - hence the term water fuel.

The process you describe is electrolysis and that is not the process I am describing which is "fracturing" as Meyer termed it or "molecular shattering" as Dr. Puharich termed it.

The law of force (F-MA) has three exceptions - one is if the mass is moving at or near quantum speed. Acceleration is what is used to cause that speed and I have been very clear from the start of this discussion that accelerators were used.

1. A focused laser is used to elevate the electron orbit planes of the O2 molecules and small lasers are commonly used to reduce mass to near absolute near zero to produce Bose Einstein condensate.

2. Accelerated electron stream produced in Meyer's VIC transformer which contains pancake coils over coaxial coils. Note - A Tesla coil was used to drive the first accelerator in the US.

3. Ultrasonic piezo was used in a resonant cavity to produce cavitation to cause the afore mentioned "fracturing or shattering".

"What we are doing is the exact opposite of Faraday electrolysis" - Stan Meyer.

You are right in that you are not going to beat Faraday's laws of DC electrolysis.

People get confused on this subject because they either are not aware of the "fracturing" (Also see Dr. Randall Mills of Blacklight Power) or they don't understand that Stan Meyer managed to patent every known method or process involving electrolysis OR water fuel.

Thanks again for attempting to elevate the discussion above that of a 12 year old.

[Luckless]

Next to apply 2nd laww to everything, means there is no such thing as an "isolated system" which then relegates 2nd law to meaningless.


"Everything" as in every last bit of energy in the universe Is and isolated system with no influence from anything else.

The law isn't meaningless unless you have no understanding of that meaning.

[quarktoo]

Really ?


MHD and Z machine from Sandia showed the opposite with unexpected energy rise, very likely from...water.

The casimir effect tells us it is possible to get energy from water and it was demonstrated in many ways.

It is really just like discussing on the impossible OverUnity of a reversible air conditioning heater instead of getting the benefit of their COP around 3 with peace.

Highly Illogical captain Dave !

How does Casimir effect extract energy from water?

Ditto the Z machine. They have discovered well over 20 different states of water. Such a simple and stable molecule yet one of the least understood. Maybe water will help some people understand that we don't know much about a whole bunch of different things at an academic level at least.

The national labs have hijacked science for military and space as you rightly mentioned earlier.

[quarktoo]

"Everything" as in every last bit of energy in the universe Is and isolated system with no influence from anything else.

The law isn't meaningless unless you have no understanding of that meaning.

O.K., so you just claimed to know everything about the universe, or even that there is only a single universe.

Anyone that actually knows anything about science would dismiss you at that point. You don't know, what you don't know unless you are a magical thinker and assumption is not what science is made of. That is what insanity and mind control are made of.

EDIT -
BTW - Entropy of the universe is where they always attempt to take the argument once they lose the argument regarding acceleration and mass to ATOMIC energy conversion. A hydrogen bomb, which converts mass into atomic energy, blows that argument out of the water so to speak. The net is economic free energy. The universe is a big place and nobody is going to miss that tiny amount of mass.

[Luckless]

O.K., so you just claimed to know everything about the universe, or even that there is only a single universe.

Anyone that actually knows anything about science would dismiss you at that point. You don't know, what you don't know unless you are a magical thinker and assumption is not what science is made of. That is what insanity and mind control are made of.

EDIT -
BTW - Entropy of the universe is where they always attempt to take the argument once they lose the argument regarding acceleration and mass to ATOMIC energy conversion. A hydrogen bomb, which converts mass into atomic energy, blows that argument out of the water so to speak. The net is economic free energy. The universe is a big place and nobody is going to miss that tiny amount of mass.

Wait, what? First off if you knew anything about science, then you would know that saying "I think this is meaningless, therefore it is and we can ignore a generally accepted law of science" would have you dismissed there.

Second, where the hell is the 'free' energy in an atomic explosion? "Energy" isn't the electricity you run a light bulb off of.

[quarktoo]

Wait, what? First off if you knew anything about science, then you would know that saying "I think this is meaningless, therefore it is and we can ignore a generally accepted law of science" would have you dismissed there.

Second, where the hell is the 'free' energy in an atomic explosion? "Energy" isn't the electricity you run a light bulb off of.

Either you are too stupid to quote me properly or you are too corrupt or both, which is most likely since stupid and lack of integrity walk hand in hand.

Here is your fake quote:
I think this is meaningless, therefore it is and we can ignore a generally accepted law of science"

Here is what I wrote:
"Next to apply 2nd laww to everything, means there is no such thing as an "isolated system" which then relegates 2nd law to meaningless."

Other than my typo on the word law, my statement is correct.

...and lastly, I have better things to do than explain how hydrogen bombs and light bulbs work to an idiot that misquotes me.

[Dave Gudeman]

First I must say thank you for rising above the level of a 12 year old - how refreshing.

Now I shall clean up your errors - it's only fair.OK, if we are going to have a civil discussion, I'll play...

I stated "pure hydrogen" not "hydrogen burns in the presence of oxygen."

That is a misquote on your part - do do that.You must distinguish between misquotes and misunderstandings. When something "burns", that means that it combines chemically with oxygen in a rapid exothermic reaction. It is rare to hear any other sort of reaction described this way, so the misunderstanding is quite, er, understandable. In fact if that is not what you meant then I still don't understand you. What would it mean for hydrogen to "burn" with no other chemicals being introduced?

Hydrogen and oxygen are commonly called hydroxl, hho and water is the ash of that reaction when burned.Hydroxyl is the compound OH. It isn't something that you can put in a bottle. It is either a part of a larger compound or it is a transitory radical in solution. Water is sometimes spelled chemically as HOH in order to emphasize that it can donate a hydrogen atom or a hydroxyl group in a reaction, but I've never seen HHO before this discussion.

As far as the "ash" and "burning", I have no idea what you are talking about. You can't burn hydroxyl in any sense that I'm aware of, and HHO is just an unusual way to write water. What do you think the difference is between HHO and water? And why don't you write out the chemical reaction that you think is taking place, since the word "burn" seems to be confusing us?

From wiki or any other definition I have ever seen:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics

"The second law of thermodynamics is an expression of the universal principle of entropy, stating that the entropy of an isolated system which is not in equilibrium will tend to increase over time."Well, they shouldn't phrase it in such a complicated way because it just confuses people. However, if you will think about it for a few minutes, I think you can convince yourself that if it applies to isolated systems, then it applies to the universe as a whole. Consider that "the system" can be defined to be anything you want. No matter what reaction is going on, you can define a big enough space around it to constitute an isolated system. Therefore everything that happens happens in an isolated system that obeys the second law.

The second law was written by men describing steam engines and fire and simply means that a steam engine cannot be used to generate electricity which in turn is used to generate more steam which in turn is used to generate more electricity, etc., i.e., perpetual motion.First of all, I tend to agree with your reasoning here, just not your facts. If the second law really did have such a limited background, it would be reckless to apply it to the entire universe. But it actually has a much more complex background. Thermodynamic studies have been made of thousands of different kinds of systems with many forms: solid, liquid, gas, thin film, thin thread, and more. And no violation has ever been measured. Furthermore, there are deeper theoretical consequences of the law such that very odd things could happen if it were false. The fact that we never observe such odd things is another reason to think that it is true.

Since water is the fuel source and more water is added, it is not a isolated system and 2nd law does not apply.I think I should point out that my complaint against your system is based on the first law of thermodynamics, not the second law. It violates conservation of energy.

Next to apply 2nd laww to everything, means there is no such thing as an "isolated system" which then relegates 2nd law to meaningless.You are going to have to explain this. I don't get what you are saying.

If you really think you know everything about the universe, or can prove that their is only one, then you are the smartest scientist on Earth - I doubt that.Oh, boy! I'm the smartest scientist on earth! :)

Proof that there is only one universe:
Definition: a universe U is a set such that for all x, x is in U.
Axiom 1: if two universes contain exactly the same objects then they are the same universe.
Proof: let A and B be two universes. By definition
for all x, x is in A and x is in B.
therefore, A and B contain exactly the same objects
By axiom 1, A and B are the same universe.
ergo: there is only one universe.

Where do I pick up my Nobel prize? :)

As to your device, I'll put together a more specific critique later. If you want to post what you consider the best links to the device are, I will reference them directly.

[quarktoo]

OK, if we are going to have a civil discussion, I'll play...

You must distinguish between misquotes and misunderstandings. When something "burns", that means that it combines chemically with oxygen in a rapid exothermic reaction. It is rare to hear any other sort of reaction described this way, so the misunderstanding is quite, er, understandable. In fact if that is not what you meant then I still don't understand you. What would it mean for hydrogen to "burn" with no other chemicals being introduced?

Hydroxyl is the compound OH. It isn't something that you can put in a bottle. It is either a part of a larger compound or it is a transitory radical in solution. Water is sometimes spelled chemically as HOH in order to emphasize that it can donate a hydrogen atom or a hydroxyl group in a reaction, but I've never seen HHO before this discussion.

As far as the "ash" and "burning", I have no idea what you are talking about. You can't burn hydroxyl in any sense that I'm aware of, and HHO is just an unusual way to write water. What do you think the difference is between HHO and water? And why don't you write out the chemical reaction that you think is taking place, since the word "burn" seems to be confusing us?

Well, they shouldn't phrase it in such a complicated way because it just confuses people. However, if you will think about it for a few minutes, I think you can convince yourself that if it applies to isolated systems, then it applies to the universe as a whole. Consider that "the system" can be defined to be anything you want. No matter what reaction is going on, you can define a big enough space around it to constitute an isolated system. Therefore everything that happens happens in an isolated system that obeys the second law.

First of all, I tend to agree with your reasoning here, just not your facts. If the second law really did have such a limited background, it would be reckless to apply it to the entire universe. But it actually has a much more complex background. Thermodynamic studies have been made of thousands of different kinds of systems with many forms: solid, liquid, gas, thin film, thin thread, and more. And no violation has ever been measured. Furthermore, there are deeper theoretical consequences of the law such that very odd things could happen if it were false. The fact that we never observe such odd things is another reason to think that it is true.

I think I should point out that my complaint against your system is based on the first law of thermodynamics, not the second law. It violates conservation of energy.

You are going to have to explain this. I don't get what you are saying.

Oh, boy! I'm the smartest scientist on earth! :)

Proof that there is only one universe:
Definition: a universe U is a set such that for all x, x is in U.
Axiom 1: if two universes contain exactly the same objects then they are the same universe.
Proof: let A and B be two universes. By definition
for all x, x is in A and x is in B.
therefore, A and B contain exactly the same objects
By axiom 1, A and B are the same universe.
ergo: there is only one universe.

Where do I pick up my Nobel prize? :)

As to your device, I'll put together a more specific critique later. If you want to post what you consider the best links to the device are, I will reference them directly.


You must distinguish between misquotes and misunderstandings. When something "burns", that means that it combines chemically with oxygen in a rapid exothermic reaction. It is rare to hear any other sort of reaction described this way, so the misunderstanding is quite, er, understandable. In fact if that is not what you meant then I still don't understand you. What would it mean for hydrogen to "burn" with no other chemicals being introduced?


Why don't you look up the definition of the word burn like I did. As stated, I try to choose my words carefully.

burn:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/burn
10. Chemistry.
a. to undergo combustion, either fast or slow; oxidize.
b. to undergo fission or fusion.

From wiki - burn:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burn

Radiation burns are caused by protracted exposure to UV light (as from the sun), tanning booths, radiation therapy (as patients who are undergoing cancer therapy), sunlamps, and X-rays.

You just got "burned" at your semantics game and your argument just went down in flames. :-)


Hydroxyl is the compound OH. It isn't something that you can put in a bottle. It is either a part of a larger compound or it is a transitory radical in solution. Water is sometimes spelled chemically as HOH in order to emphasize that it can donate a hydrogen atom or a hydroxyl group in a reaction, but I've never seen HHO before this discussion.


Congratulations! You spotted a typo. I meant to use the word hydroxy.

Hydroxy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxy

"Hydroxy gas: A nickname for oxyhydrogen, a combination of hydrogen and oxygen gas produced from the electrolysis of water"

I stand corrected. I wrongly added the letter "l" to the end. I should have stayed with HHO or more accurately oxyhydrogen. In the context of the discussion, anyone that works with this knows exactly what I am saying. Semantics...


Well, they shouldn't phrase it in such a complicated way because it just confuses people. However, if you will think about it for a few minutes, I think you can convince yourself that if it applies to isolated systems, then it applies to the universe as a whole. Consider that "the system" can be defined to be anything you want. No matter what reaction is going on, you can define a big enough space around it to constitute an isolated system. Therefore everything that happens happens in an isolated system that obeys the second law.


Second law is, what it is. Remove the word "isolated" from second law and it becomes meaningless.

Remove 2nd law from the context of what it was meant to define and suddenly you are claiming to know everything about the universe and perhaps beyond. That would be a departure from science in every regard. You don't get to redefine the laws of physics based on how you "believe" the unknown universe is or how it suits you in an argument.


First of all, I tend to agree with your reasoning here, just not your facts. If the second law really did have such a limited background, it would be reckless to apply it to the entire universe. But it actually has a much more complex background. Thermodynamic studies have been made of thousands of different kinds of systems with many forms: solid, liquid, gas, thin film, thin thread, and more. And no violation has ever been measured. Furthermore, there are deeper theoretical consequences of the law such that very odd things could happen if it were false. The fact that we never observe such odd things is another reason to think that it is true.


Dave, Dave, Dave... At no time did I state that thermodynamics was violated, I stated that 2nd law does not apply - see very first post. Since an external fuel source is supplied, it is not an "isolated" system and the definition does not apply. Don't misquote me.


Thermodynamic studies have been made of thousands of different kinds of systems with many forms: solid, liquid, gas, thin film, thin thread, and more. And no violation has ever been measured.


I am sure that is true and it does not redefine thermodynamics. BTW - Dr. Richard Feyman made a PBS special with other scientist like Dr. Mandelbrot in which Feyman was quoted in reference to Aharonov Bohm effect "more energy out than in." I'm sure you must be much smarter than those two as well? Didn't Feyman win a Nobel prize? :-)


I think I should point out that my complaint against your system is based on the first law of thermodynamics, not the second law. It violates conservation of energy.

You are going to have to explain this. I don't get what you are saying.


I could not explain it any better than I already have in previous posts.

"The first law of thermodynamics , an expression of the principle of conservation of energy, states that energy can be transformed (changed from one form to another), but cannot be created or destroyed."

Mass is formed from energy and all economic "free energy" devices convert mass into the atomic energy contained within the mass, not the chemical energy of a chemical reaction.

Now since the universe did the work of compressing energy into mass for free, and it takes very little energy to convert that mass back into energy using acceleration, in an economic sense, you get free energy and as Tesla stated "connect man's machinery to the wheel work of nature."

It takes work to accelerate the mass so you don't get all the energy contained in the mass but you get more out than work put in. It no more violates 1st law than "burning" oil.

There is no 1st law or 2nd law violation nor did I ever claim there was. 1st law is not violated and 2nd law does not apply.


Oh, boy! I'm the smartest scientist on earth! :)

Proof that there is only one universe:
Definition: a universe U is a set such that for all x, x is in U.
Axiom 1: if two universes contain exactly the same objects then they are the same universe.
Proof: let A and B be two universes. By definition
for all x, x is in A and x is in B.
therefore, A and B contain exactly the same objects
By axiom 1, A and B are the same universe.
ergo: there is only one universe.

Where do I pick up my Nobel prize? :)


Semantics... I have a ******** that lives near me. One could argue he is a "universe". However, there are plenty of ********s on the planet and they are not all the same to me so is there really only one universe?

EDIT-
Now you assume that there are multiple universes and they contain exactly the same thing? Where do you find time to do that much inventory? I get the joke but you know...
-EDIT

You don't get the Nobel prize and it has no meaning anymore since Obama got the peace prize during two wars, both based in lies and human rights violations such as occupation, kidnapping and torture.

What you do get, is a dunce prize and you earned that when you misquoted me. Don't do that or I am not going to be nice to you anymore.


As to your device, I'll put together a more specific critique later. If you want to post what you consider the best links to the device are, I will reference them directly.

I await your next post with bated breath. Google - The sum of all knowledge.

Good luck finding links to mass to atomic energy conversion. It is suppressed information for a bunch of reasons.

While chemistry does occur, it is not a chemistry process so it would be impossible to post the chemistry formula. It is an atomic process but Puharich did include some of the chemistry in his patent if your are interested..

Einstein stated a gallon of water had enough atomic energy to power a freight train around the Earth three times. Where is the chemistry to back that up? Hidden away at a weapons labs or national lab. I don't know the math or nuclear chemistry formula and you are not going to get anyone that does to publish it. That does not mean that it does not exist somewhere.

Imperical science is about as good as it gets. The fact that Meyer, Dr. Puharich and Dr. Anderson drove and demonstrated water cars around for many years is about as real as it gets. I am pretty sure they were also under a gag order and or afraid people would suppress the property by filing patents around the key aspects. Meyer stated this and spent years protecting the property rights and fighting the corrupt patent office national security patent review process.

Here is where I would start:
Youtube - Dr. Puharich lectures 1 - 5
Youtube - Stan Meyer Colorado lecture and others.
Learn about the many ways that acceleration converts mass to atomic energy. Cavitation, accelerator coil, vacuum electron acceleration, etc. I posted the information already.

Study the patents and research the subject for decades like I have and you will surely come to the same conclusion but faster since you are so smart.

[mark775]

"It is suppressed"
Sorry 'bout what's happening in that skull casing...
38727

[quarktoo]

Dave,

As a offering of good tiding and to help make my case, here is a photo of the accelerator coil from Meyer's first dune buggy. Note the slots on the outside for the pancake coils?

When Meyer died two things happened:
1. On the day Meyer died,while meeting with NATO officials at a restaurant in Garden City Ohio, Meyer stood up, announced to all the others in the restaurant he had just been poisoned and died in the parking lot trying to get himself to the hospital.

2. Government types came to his house and ripped the dune buggy apart cutting wires off transformers, etc. That is why there are no wires going to the connector according to the person that owned the car for all this time.

The car, what was left of the hydrogen fracture generators, etc., were recently sold to Dr. Greer from the disclosure project which most people believe to be a disinfo. front for the CIA located 20 minutes down the road - myself among them.

EDIT-
Meyer referred to the signal the transformer produced as "rippled DC" in one of his patents.
-EDIT

The VIC transformer:

[quarktoo]

GOD'S APRIL FOOLS JOKE on Science & the SECRET
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_UXcNMBGTA

Here is an example of someone that has discovered an economic free energy machine using acceleration and feels he is violating 1st law of thermodynamics because he has no way to measure the tiny amount of mass that is being converted into energy. If he ran that for 1000 years and then weighed it, he still could not measure the missing mass.

Looks like he has figured out that capacitive inductance negates the need for a shorted coil due to the self inductance of the high voltage coil.

Eventually he may figure out he can back that HV coil up with a pancake coil to accelerate it even more and at that point, most likely have have a self running motor powered by acceleration and mass to atomic energy conversion. Muller motor? Probably.

Better than sails? In a storm or no wind it would be better than sails but sailing is fun and good exercise which has nothing to do with science

So we agree that you can't break the laws of thermodynamics when properly applied but that does not prevent you from producing an "economic" free energy device.

[masrapido]

First, masrapido's errors:

1. The terms "explosion" and "implosion" have nothing to do with the lengths of chains. You can burn a long-chain molecule without getting an explosion (that's what a kerosene lamp does, for example) and you can (very easily) get an explosion by burning hydrogen.

The difference between an explosion and an implosion is that an explosion results from a center that is at much higher pressure than ambient while an implosion results from a low-pressure center.

2. You can burn long-chain molecules without producing toxic gasses.

3. I don't know for sure if anyone actually adds hydrogen to the cylinder in production diesel engines but I very much doubt it, and masrapido's account of the chemistry and the pending "implosions" is certainly wrong. Note that adding water vapor is very different from adding hydrogen. Hydrogen would act as additional fuel. Water vapor would not.



Dave, I am sorry to have to join the lineup of people correcting you because the company is not a good one.

Firstly, your understanding of explosion and implosion is actually incorrect. Explosion is a reaction where a fuel reacts to ignition rapidly and the gasses expand under the heat created. Explosions happen when, let us use your example "long-chained", molecules are separated into smaller chains. Covalent bonds between the atoms in molecules are broken, and energy is released.

Implosion is a reaction where, again as per your example, short-chained molecules are combined together into a long -chained molecules. It is a process of fusion of atoms and/or simpler molecules into more complex ones.

What separates the two is that in implosion the energy is absorbed into the fusion process. That can be observed by the fact that hydrogen, for example, burns with invisible flame and it does NOT emit the heat and light. Both remain within the flame. On the other hand when petrol or diesel burn they emit both the light and the heat.

Second, contrary to popular opinion which you reflect here, the hydrogen does not explode. And definitely not as destructively as petrol, for example. Oxidising reaction of hydrogen is sucking the air IN, whreas petrol's explosion is blowing the air OUT.

Your description of explosion and implosion is incorrect also because the two do not happen from high or low point of pressure. They CREATE their high or low pressure points.

The rest of your comments display further your unfamiliarity with this part of chemistry and physics behind it. There are quite a few scientific pages dedicated to hydrogen that will provide detailed information and help you correct some of the errors in your post.

Interestingly, even many scientists (makes me wonder) will call hydrogen oxidation an "explosion", yet it will be clear that they are talking about the burning and implosion, which does NOT result in an explosion because explosion is EXpansion, whereas, hydrogen implodes, and inveitably creates low pressure around the flame.

As for the quirkie, my goodness, that is one disturbed individual with a lot of time badly utilised.

His reply to you is so full of crap, it doesn't even need to be replied to. It rebutts itself.

[quarktoo]

...and speaking of Dr. Greer, notice how he is present at a demonstration of a free energy device that was validated many times and suppressed?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4914871211025734766&hl=en#

...and then of course the usual suspects like Sterling Allen is there who offered Peter 26 million for the rights to the invention? This is something that keeps happening. The fox is guarding the hen house.

Speaking of asymetric circuits, notice how in the Dr. Puharich patent the end of the primary coil is open except for a resistor used to detect resonance? That is done through capacitive self inductance.

Need another example? Have a look at Dr. Stiffler's cold electricity circuit - what he now calls "spacial energy coherence". (MRH2O2 on youtube)

It is an old trick that has been suppressed more times than I can remember and you don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand how it works.

Note how Peter mentioned the 44 gauge wire on the primary and .005 amps or watts of power (can't remember) input yet many amps of power output? The end of the wire is probably not connected to anything, hence no appreciable current draw.

Demonstration of Peter Sumaruck's "Zero Amp Tech"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQw8-HtqefY&feature=player_embedded

Notice how the generator does not bog down when Peter turns on those five motors? No current draw.

And of course, the suppression and naturally the military is involved..
http://www.worldviewopinion.com/blog/energy/_archives/2008/7/19/3800414.html

It is my understanding that you can presently buy a 12KW version for $300,000 and make and sell as many units as you please. They are being manufactured in Waco TX, so I am guessing he is living on borrowed time.

[masrapido]

APRIL FOOLS JOKE on Science & the SECRET
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_UXcNMBGTA


Another proof of your lack of understanding of the very concept of "overunity".

I would love that something like that is invented. But this, like meyer's "hydrogen generator", is just another ********. Here's why. The ignorant who posted it talks about the output "energy". Energy is not the output of prime movers. The POWER is.

Write that down, you silly ignorant. Energy cannot be measured. The POWER can.

And, ask any electrician what happens when you increase the voltage to an electric motor.

They ACCELERATE, because the voltage accelerates the speed of a motor.

What happens in that video is NOT overunity.

POWER is a quotient of amperage and voltage TOGETHER. If you reduce the amperes, the POWER goes down, regardless of the fact that the morot "accelerates".

No energy has been created.

Dumb you and dumb the author of that video. If he were to connect the motor to do some work, the motor would stop in a second because the idiot increased the voltage and reduced the amperage. For example: if the voltage went to 240V, and amperes down to one, that would be 240 Watts of power available for a useful work. (I can already see you flying the planes with that power...in the safety of your little dark bedroom.)

Basic physics. But one needs to go to school to understand it. You don't so your debate is an ignorant one.

And, while it is futile, I'll repeat it:

ENERGY CANNOT BE CREATED AND MEASURED.

POWER CAN.

And they are not the same thing.

Go back to school.

[Luckless]

What separates the two is that in implosion the energy is absorbed into the fusion process. That can be observed by the fact that hydrogen, for example, burns with invisible flame and it does NOT emit the heat and light. Both remain within the flame. On the other hand when petrol or diesel burn they emit both the light and the heat.


Random question, it has been many years since high school chemistry (The closest I come to chem/physics these days is assisting researchers in building better programs to run more efficiently for simulation.) but do you care to explain how we made bags of oxygen and hydrogen gas explode in the lab? And how we used the very white flame from burning hydrogen to boil water?

And be careful with the word 'fusion' in chemistry. I'm not sure how it is used in chemistry, but from physics if hydrogen and oxygen were fusing, wouldn't you be getting Fluorine? Or Neon if both hydrogen were going into the fusion with an oxygen atom?

[hoytedow]

I think someone is confusing fusion with bonding.

[Luckless]

Yeah, the joy of international communications. Reminds me of the time a professor from overseas was going on and on in a lecture about "Play boys" and trying to get the class to respond. (mistranslation on "Game boy")

[quarktoo]

ENERGY CANNOT BE CREATED AND MEASURED.

POWER CAN.


Hi *****,

Energy is measured in joules. One joule is the amount of energy it takes to lift an object that weighs one Newton, a distance of one meter.

EDIT- (edited to show correct weight of newton so as to not spread disinfo.)
A Newton is the metric unit for weight and is 102 g or 0.224871 lb or 3.59 oz.
-EDIT

Power is measured in watts consumed or produced and is calculated by multiplying volts times amps.

The link demonstrated negating Lentz law which destroys much of a motors output through counter electromotive force (CEMF). He nor I stated it was a "free energy device" but you are a functionally illiterate and belligerent idiot.


And, ask any electrician what happens when you increase the voltage to an electric motor.

They ACCELERATE, because the voltage accelerates the speed of a motor.


That would be true of a DC motor mouth breather but this is an AC motor. You have now proven that you are too stupid to learn from watching a video and don't know the first thing about motors or electromagnetic induction in general.

That was just a quick skim of you post which I tend to ignore, since they contain nothing but wrong information and ignorance. You are an ignorant idiot and you prove that with your every post. You lost all you credibility a long time ago and you have nothing left to lose - shut up. No wonder Chili is a third world country.

[quarktoo]

Dave, I am sorry to have to join the lineup of people correcting you because the company is not a good one.

Firstly, your understanding of explosion and implosion is actually incorrect. Explosion is a reaction where a fuel reacts to ignition rapidly and the gasses expand under the heat created. Explosions happen when, let us use your example "long-chained", molecules are separated into smaller chains. Covalent bonds between the atoms in molecules are broken, and energy is released.

Implosion is a reaction where, again as per your example, short-chained molecules are combined together into a long -chained molecules. It is a process of fusion of atoms and/or simpler molecules into more complex ones.

What separates the two is that in implosion the energy is absorbed into the fusion process. That can be observed by the fact that hydrogen, for example, burns with invisible flame and it does NOT emit the heat and light. Both remain within the flame. On the other hand when petrol or diesel burn they emit both the light and the heat.

Second, contrary to popular opinion which you reflect here, the hydrogen does not explode. And definitely not as destructively as petrol, for example. Oxidising reaction of hydrogen is sucking the air IN, whreas petrol's explosion is blowing the air OUT.

Your description of explosion and implosion is incorrect also because the two do not happen from high or low point of pressure. They CREATE their high or low pressure points.

The rest of your comments display further your unfamiliarity with this part of chemistry and physics behind it. There are quite a few scientific pages dedicated to hydrogen that will provide detailed information and help you correct some of the errors in your post.

Interestingly, even many scientists (makes me wonder) will call hydrogen oxidation an "explosion", yet it will be clear that they are talking about the burning and implosion, which does NOT result in an explosion because explosion is EXpansion, whereas, hydrogen implodes, and inveitably creates low pressure around the flame.

As for the quirkie, my goodness, that is one disturbed individual with a lot of time badly utilised.

His reply to you is so full of crap, it doesn't even need to be replied to. It rebutts itself.

Thank you God....


What separates the two is that in implosion the energy is absorbed into the fusion process. That can be observed by the fact that hydrogen, for example, burns with invisible flame and it does NOT emit the heat and light. Both remain within the flame.

1. Does not know what fusion is and has proven that.
2. Apparently the retard has not heard of a hydroxy torch which to my knowledge is the hottest flame welders use to cut big steel and even melt ceramic.
3. The retard has not figured out that the Sun is a fusion process and it emits the heat and light that allow life on Earth.

If it were not so sad, it would be funny. There is a level of stupid out there that should be put out of its misery for the good of the human race.

Look at the Sun until you go blind *****, then you won't be able to post your stupid on the web anymore. Stay in the Sun until you die of sunburn. At least your dead corpse will provide nutrition to plants and your skin bag won't be a total waste.

[mark775]

Could you two carry this on in private?

[Dave Gudeman]

Dave, I am sorry to have to join the lineup of people correcting you because the company is not a good one.Masrapido, it is clear that you don't know anything about chemistry or physics and are just parroting your misunderstanding of things that you have read. I would like to encourage you to stop doing this. The effect you will have is to amplify your confusions by spreading them to other people, and this doesn't do anyone any good. To make matters worse, your pride won't let you even consider the possibility that another poster might actually know what he is talking about. You just assume that everyone else is ********ting like you are, and so you will never learn from people who are actually knowledgeable.

How would you like it if I went around to other forums and pretended that I was an expert on boat building and started spreading dumb misinformation to people who didn't know anything about boats?

Firstly, your understanding of explosion and implosion is actually incorrect.Well, it was perhaps too terse. Let me be more explicit: An explosion is what you get when you have a very sudden very-high-pressure region. The high pressure expands outward in a shock wave, hence the "ex" in "explosion". An implosion is what you get when you have a very sudden very-low-pressure region. The low-pressure region is filled by air rushing in. Hence the "im" in "implosion".

Explosions and implosions are mechanical processes, not chemical processes. They have nothing directly to do with chemistry or molecular chains except that highly exothermic chemical reactions are one way to get an explosion. There are other ways to get an explosion. I have caused a can of soda to explode by leaving it in the freezer. There were no covalent bonds being broken in this case.

Explosions happen when, let us use your example "long-chained", molecules are separated into smaller chains. Covalent bonds between the atoms in molecules are broken, and energy is released.Energy is not released when you break covalent bonds. You have to put energy in to break covalent bonds. If breaking the bonds released energy then there would be no bonds in the first place. The reason that two atoms are bonded together into a compound is because that is a lower-energy state than the state where the two atoms are separate. Where the energy comes from in combustion is that one set of bonds are broken (which requires energy input) and another set of bonds are created (which releases energy). If the new compound is at a lower energy than the original compound, then you have net energy production. If the difference in energy is great enough, and the reaction happens rapidly enough to produce a high-pressure gas, then you get an explosion. It doesn't matter what the length of the chains are (except indirectly). All that matters is the energy of the reaction and how rapidly it is produced.

Implosion is a reaction where, again as per your example, short-chained molecules are combined together into a long -chained molecules. It is a process of fusion of atoms and/or simpler molecules into more complex ones.I think I suddenly realized where you are getting this idea. In hydrocarbons, long-chained molecules tend to have a lower vapor pressure than short-chained molecules and the liquids and solids of long-chained molecules tend to be denser. But that doesn't make an implosion.

What separates the two is that in implosion the energy is absorbed into the fusion process. That can be observed by the fact that hydrogen, for example, burns with invisible flame and it does NOT emit the heat and light.When they say that hydrogen burns with an invisible flame, they mean that the flame is colorless and transparent, not that it doesn't emit light. Hydrogen flames produce both heat and light.

Second, contrary to popular opinion which you reflect here, the hydrogen does not explode. And definitely not as destructively as petrol, for example. Oxidising reaction of hydrogen is sucking the air IN, whreas petrol's explosion is blowing the air OUT.If you take an air-tight container, fill it with hydrogen and oxygen in the right proportion, and then heat it until a chemical reaction takes place, then you will definitely get an explosion. This is not an "opinion", it is a simple experiment that is often performed in low-level chemistry classes. Seriously, masrapido, anyone who has taken high-school chemistry knows this.
The rest of your comments display further your unfamiliarity with this part of chemistry and physics behind it. There are quite a few scientific pages dedicated to hydrogen that will provide detailed information and help you correct some of the errors in your post.I didn't learn chemistry and physics from the internet, I learned it at a university. And rather than me trying to "correct" my university education through the internet, why don't you email someone who wrote a page about hydrogen combustion to explain your understanding to him? See what he says about it.

Interestingly, even many scientists (makes me wonder) will call hydrogen oxidation an "explosion", yet it will be clear that they are talking about the burning and implosion, which does NOT result in an explosion because explosion is EXpansion, whereas, hydrogen implodes, and inveitably creates low pressure around the flame.Masrapido, you are just misunderstanding something that you have read on the internet. It is true that at a given temperature and pressure, two moles of water has less volume than the 2 moles of hydrogen and one mole of oxygen that went into the production, but immediately after the chemical reaction, the water is at a much higher temperature than the reactants which gives it a much greater volume.

[mark775]

Dave didn't just pay attention in class...He paid attention in Richard Feynman's class!

[Dave Gudeman]

Quarktoo, I thought you were going to play nice. Before I answer the substantive errors of your post, I'm going to point out all of your insults and condescension in one place so that you can reconsider the way that you are behaving. I'm not interested in taking out my aggression on the internet, and if you can't separate your testosterone issues from your intellectual pursuits, then I'm not interested in talking to you.

Why don't you look up the definition of the word burn like I did.Because looking up words is a rhetorical device to win a pointless argument. I only brought up the common usage of the word (note: not the dictionary definition, but the common usage) to explain why I had misunderstood you. Instead of clarifying yourself, you took the opportunity to play Dictionary Gotcha.

You just got "burned" at your semantics game and your argument just went down in flames. :-)I made no argument around the meaning of the word "burn". I was only responding to your accusation that I "misquoted" you in order to explain that it was not a misquote but a misunderstanding, and explain why I misunderstood.

Congratulations! You spotted a typo. I meant to use the word hydroxy.Since this is not contest for me, I was not looking for Typo Gotchas. I genuinely thought that you were talking about hydroxyl.

I stand corrected. I wrongly added the letter "l" to the end. I should have stayed with HHO or more accurately oxyhydrogen. In the context of the discussion, anyone that works with this knows exactly what I am saying. Semantics...Accusing me of ignorance for not being able to read your mind.

Dave, Dave, Dave...Condescension.

At no time did I state that thermodynamics was violated, I stated that 2nd law does not apply - see very first post. Since an external fuel source is supplied, it is not an "isolated" system and the definition does not apply. Don't misquote me.Accusing me of misquoting you because I worded something in a way that you don't approve of. The difference between saying that the thermodynamics is violated and saying that the 2nd law does not apply depends on how widely you construe the 2nd law. Since that is one of the issues under dispute, you can hardly expect me to just assume that you are correct in the way that I word things. Politely disagreeing with my wording is one thing. Being condescending and accusing me of bad faith is quite another.

I'm sure you must be much smarter than those two as well?Condescension.

Semantics... I have a ******** that lives near me. One could argue he is a "universe". However, there are plenty of ********s on the planet and they are not all the same to me so is there really only one universe?Yes, it was semantics. That was the point of the joke. If "universe" means "everything that exists", then by definition there cannot be two universes. I'm not sure what to call the capricious use of the word "********" in the above. Still, given the overall tenor of your post, it is reasonable to think that it was meant in some way to offend me. I'm not sure how.

You don't get the Nobel prize and it has no meaning anymore since Obama got the peace prize during two wars, both based in lies and human rights violations such as occupation, kidnapping and torture.Irrelevant, hostile political aside.

What you do get, is a dunce prize and you earned that when you misquoted me. Don't do that or I am not going to be nice to you anymore.Specious accusation and associated insult combined with the false assertion that you are being "nice". Just because your hostility to me so far has been more passive-aggressive than full-on name calling, that is not the same as being nice.

I await your next post with bated breath. Google - The sum of all knowledge.Condescension.

Study the patents and research the subject for decades like I have and you will surely come to the same conclusion but faster since you are so smart.Condescension.

So, what about it, Quarktoo? Do you really want to have a discussion or is the internet just your tool for taking out your aggression on people who can't hurt you?

[gonzo]

With the price of Evian going up, I think I will keep on filling my tank with petroleum products for the time being

[quarktoo]

Dave,

I can play nice but misquoting me is not nice. I have had this conversation many times with many people and have seen all the tricks used to try and discredit the free energy movement.

One of the most widely used tricks is to find an insignificant error and then pound away on that to try and draw attention away from the pink elephants in the room.

Another is to misquote and then try and base an argument around that.

And yet another is to expand the laws of thermodynamics beyond their scope in an attempt to negate that important and key word "isolated". This of course creates a discussion / argument of theory and tantamount to a dog chasing its tail. Eventually the person is worn down and gives up.

Can I play nice? Sure I can. Do I enjoy your feedback and posts? More than all others combined. Do I want to continue the discussion? I await your next post with bated breath as stated. Did I enjoy your definition of universe and the humor indicated by those smiley faces? Sure but also saw it is attempting to forward the expansion of 2nd law masked as humor.

Fire away Dave, you clearly have an academic background in physics and I learn and grow from these conversations. As long as learning is more important than winning, I enjoy them.

So let us start fresh with my apology equal to yours for misquoting me.

I am sorry that you pissed me off. :-)

[Dave Gudeman]

Thanks quarktoo.

Now before I get into the 2nd Law, I'd like to say that even though your interpretation of the law is wrong, your argument against using the law may be correct. If the apparatus in question really is an open system then the second law does not apply to it, at least not directly. If it is really using something up in the process of creating energy then there is no violation of either the first or second laws of thermodynamics. The laws of thermodynamics apply to closed systems and they apply to the universe as a whole (which is just a big closed system). They do not apply directly to open systems.

Whether your device is actually an open system, I'll discuss later.

As to the 2nd Law itself, let me quote you from the very same Wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics) you used to refute me:
There are many ways of stating the second law of thermodynamics, but all are equivalent in the sense that each form of the second law logically implies every other form...

The formulation of the second law that refers to entropy directly is as follows:

In a system, a process that occurs will tend to increase the total entropy of the universe.
However, you shouldn't take the wiki's word for it; you should reason out for yourself why the formulation in terms of closed systems is logically equivalent to a formulation in terms of the entire universe. I'll explain the argument again at the end of this post.

Frankly, I never liked the statistical mechanics version of entropy that they emphasize in Wikipedia. I prefer the classical version where entropy of a system is just the ability of a system to do work. In the most general case this is the internal energy of a system that is available to cause change of any kind. What the second law of thermodynamics says is that any system can only change so much, and then eventually it reaches an equilibrium and there is no longer any imbalance in the system that can cause further change.

If you think about it, this must be true, given what we know. What are the alternatives? One alternative is that the system goes through some cycle over and over again, with absolutely no friction or other sort of "loss" in the system. The other alternative is that it will continue into an infinite set of states, never repeating a state that it had before because as soon as it repeats a state, then it is in a cycle. We have never observed a system like either one of those. Instead, what we always observe is that a closed system will change until it "winds down" to a stopping point, at which point it will change no more until there is an input from the outside.

Now, you expressed doubts that we can apply this law to the entire universe. First of all, let's note that if there exists some unknown physical process in the universe so that there can be a closed system where the 2nd Law does not apply, then it does not apply to the universe as a whole. But if it applies to every closed system, then it must also apply to the universe as a whole.

If it does not apply to the universe as a whole, then there must be some process which decreases the entropy of the universe as a whole. There is some volume of space where the entire process takes place, including all of the entropy changes. Let's call that volume of space the system. This is a closed system because it includes all of the effects of the process. Within this closed system, the entropy is decreasing. But that violates the closed-system version of the 2nd Law. Therefore if the closed-system version of the 2nd Law is true, so is the universal version.

[quarktoo]

accidentally hit the wrong button and duplicated post.

[quarktoo]

Thanks quarktoo.

Now before I get into the 2nd Law, I'd like to say that even though your interpretation of the law is wrong, your argument against using the law may be correct. If the apparatus in question really is an open system then the second law does not apply to it, at least not directly. If it is really using something up in the process of creating energy then there is no violation of either the first or second laws of thermodynamics. The laws of thermodynamics apply to closed systems and they apply to the universe as a whole (which is just a big closed system). They do not apply directly to open systems.

Whether your device is actually an open system, I'll discuss later.

As to the 2nd Law itself, let me quote you from the very same Wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics) you used to refute me:
There are many ways of stating the second law of thermodynamics, but all are equivalent in the sense that each form of the second law logically implies every other form...

The formulation of the second law that refers to entropy directly is as follows:

In a system, a process that occurs will tend to increase the total entropy of the universe.
However, you shouldn't take the wiki's word for it; you should reason out for yourself why the formulation in terms of closed systems is logically equivalent to a formulation in terms of the entire universe. I'll explain the argument again at the end of this post.

Frankly, I never liked the statistical mechanics version of entropy that they emphasize in Wikipedia. I prefer the classical version where entropy of a system is just the ability of a system to do work. In the most general case this is the internal energy of a system that is available to cause change of any kind. What the second law of thermodynamics says is that any system can only change so much, and then eventually it reaches an equilibrium and there is no longer any imbalance in the system that can cause further change.

If you think about it, this must be true, given what we know. What are the alternatives? One alternative is that the system goes through some cycle over and over again, with absolutely no friction or other sort of "loss" in the system. The other alternative is that it will continue into an infinite set of states, never repeating a state that it had before because as soon as it repeats a state, then it is in a cycle. We have never observed a system like either one of those. Instead, what we always observe is that a closed system will change until it "winds down" to a stopping point, at which point it will change no more until there is an input from the outside.

Now, you expressed doubts that we can apply this law to the entire universe. First of all, let's note that if there exists some unknown physical process in the universe so that there can be a closed system where the 2nd Law does not apply, then it does not apply to the universe as a whole. But if it applies to every closed system, then it must also apply to the universe as a whole.

If it does not apply to the universe as a whole, then there must be some process which decreases the entropy of the universe as a whole. There is some volume of space where the entire process takes place, including all of the entropy changes. Let's call that volume of space the system. This is a closed system because it includes all of the effects of the process. Within this closed system, the entropy is decreasing. But that violates the closed-system version of the 2nd Law. Therefore if the closed-system version of the 2nd Law is true, so is the universal version.




Dave,

Thanks for your well thought out and written response. I will have to stand my ground on the fact that you cannot define and assume an unknown universe proves your belief. I hope that you will see your circular logic and I propose a challenge to break your magical thinking spell based in belief.

I propose an experiment that you can easily replicate. If you can explain it, I will accept anything you have to say on the matter of science as truth. Don't get your hopes too high for a shoe licking... you would be the first.

Now if academic science is so rational and developed, then it should be able to explain the electromagnetic behavior of a copper wire and two pieces of steel.

Joseph Leedskalnin built the coral castle near Miami Florida. While Joesph only had a sixth grade education, he build a permanent magnet motor and a small experiment, that to this day, cannot be explained by the classic EM model. His experiment was called the perpetual or permanent motion holder - you can Google it.

Fabricate a C-core and a couple of spools and replicate it yourself. You could probably also do it with a toroid and or relay but let's stick with the basic experiment for clarification purposes.

What you are going to find is what Leedskalnin did, that there is no indication of entropy. The device behaves similar to a permanent magnet, yet is an electromagnet. No current flows, yet if you break the connection to the coils, the electromagnet stops functioning. EM theory does not allow for electromagnet current without current flow.

How exactly does first and second law apply to that isolated and closed system? It doesn't. The entropy does not jive with the force produced in holding the bar to the U shaped magnet and that energy produced is greater than the input energy, hence second and first law violations respectively. How can something do work if it is not in motion? This is the empirical science of a sixth grader and yet nobody can explain it using classic EM theory.

If you are nice to me, replicate and try to explain it, I will teach you how to put that static perpetual motion into perpetual motion and then you will understand how the Hubbard coils works. BTW - The information was peer reviewed and quietly published on the web and it too defies classic EM and violates first and second law.

Since I don't have a degree in chemistry but have a fairly good knowledge of EM, and it is after all the work of a sixth grader, this would be a fair playing field for all.

What academic science doesn't know about the universe or even simple little things like copper and steel in an EM field, best defines what they do.

Respectfully,

Quarktoo

EDIT-
PS - I do not ascribe to Leedskalnin's theory of how or why it works.
-EDIT

[masrapido]

Masrapido, it is clear that you don't know anything about chemistry or physics and are just parroting your misunderstanding of things that you have read....

No I didn't. I know what I am talking about. You believe you know, and you are wrong. As for your "university", your internet scavenged quotes that make some, incomplete sense in a general way, are probably your diploma. Just like many usanians who buy one off the net and then claim the knowledge and authority on everything, when they know nothing.

What I said stands quite nicely and solid.

You go on and debate the wrongs and rights of the world with those who like you have a lot of time and all the necessary energy to debate their wrong views ad nauseam.

I'll leave it at that.

[masrapido]

1. Does not know what fusion is and has proven that.
2. Apparently the retard has not heard of a hydroxy torch which to my knowledge is the hottest flame welders use to cut big steel and even melt ceramic.
3. The retard has not figured out that the Sun is a fusion process and it emits the heat and light that allow life on Earth.

If it were not so sad, it would be funny. There is a level of stupid out there that should be put out of its misery for the good of the human race.

Look at the Sun until you go blind *****, then you won't be able to post your stupid on the web anymore. Stay in the Sun until you die of sunburn. At least your dead corpse will provide nutrition to plants and your skin bag won't be a total waste.

There is nothing intelligent here, just like in any of your other posts. A lot of foul language, which is obviously the top of your mental capacity. The rest is just more of that garbage you are polluting the world with.

You are deranged individual beyond help.

Fusion is a latin word that means "to join". NOTHING else. This goes to Dave too. The university professor doctor of empty talk. Just like yourself.

But of course usanian nut jobs are always here to correct those who know better than them. And display their absolute ignorance, bordering with lunacy even if they are not (which is endemically rare) lunatics.

If it weren't funny...

[quarktoo]

Since the only thing Chili ever gave the world was animal hair, don't you have a llama that needs shaving or something?

[Senad]

Hi *****,

Energy is measured in joules. One joule is the amount of energy it takes to lift an object that weighs one Newton, a distance of one meter. A Newton is the metric unit for weight and is 0.445 lbs.

Power is measured in watts consumed or produced and is calculated by multiplying volts times amps.

The link demonstrated negating Lentz law which destroys much of a motors output through counter electromotive force (CEMF). He nor I stated it was a "free energy device" but you are a functionally illiterate and belligerent idiot.



That would be true of a DC motor mouth breather but this is an AC motor. You have now proven that you are too stupid to learn from watching a video and don't know the first thing about motors or electromagnetic induction in general.

That was just a quick skim of you post which I tend to ignore, since they contain nothing but wrong information and ignorance. You are an ignorant idiot and you prove that with your every post. You lost all you credibility a long time ago and you have nothing left to lose - shut up. No wonder Chili is a third world country.

You are one really angry person. And not very educated in science either.

The joule is the derived unit of energy in the International System of Units. It is the energy exerted by the force of one newton acting to move an object through a distance of one metre.

To measure the energy of an electric motor you would need to make some conversions to calculate it. Electric motors are rotary machines: their work is not linear. Their output is measured in terms of power required for a useful work.

Your reply to Masrapido about thermodynamics was also wrong, as Dave pointed out.

And chili is a type of vegetable, by the way.

And apex1 said it right when replying to you about plasma sparkplugs:

Quite impressive to see, that ALL of these idiots are of the same religion!

If they cannot show a working sample, the technique is "suppressed" by the industry....

What do you believe you half baked dumbass? When CAT had a tiny chance to screw MTU forever, the they would process crocodile pee, digested by the own board of directors, to do so.
But our dreamers are all sure the industry worldwide, including the Indian and Chinese, sticks together to suppress their clever inventions.

You are mentally not intact quack troll, go back to the nurse and receive your medication and lullabye.

So, it is not just Masrapido telling you that as nice as it is to fight for new things and knowledge, you are doing bad at it.

Maybe you should cut down on swearing and anger. You are only making yourself looking more unbelievable. After all we all are expressing our opinions only. No one here is an expert on anything. Including you.

[masrapido]

Since the only thing Chili ever gave the world was animal hair, don't you have a llama that needs shaving or something?

That is exactly what I am doing and you are the animal I am shaving. See, you cannot grasp even that wich is in front of your nose.

Too much cocaine I am guessing. Helps fantasy (paranoia) develop. But it doesn't work on IQ, which is what you do not have anyway. Or the dick, which also seems to be lost in the hair somewhere...just like your "brain"...

Size problem, no doubt. Hence so much venom and anger.

[mark775]

"Or the dick"...Freud was right. It always comes down to that for the Mas's. Can you and the Queensland Queer just leave everybody's anatomy out of it?

[masrapido]

The truth hurts, mexicano? When stupid usanians stop insulting people for expressing their opinion, we the normal lot will stop revealing their personal truth to the world.

Comprendes, mexicano?

[quarktoo]

"Or the dick"...Freud was right. It always comes down to that for the Mas's. Can you and the Queensland Queer just leave everybody's anatomy out of it?

Self contradictory per the norm. It must have pushed a "little" button with you on a personal level.

[quarktoo]

That is exactly what I am doing and you are the animal I am shaving. See, you cannot grasp even that wich is in front of your nose.

Too much cocaine I am guessing. Helps fantasy (paranoia) develop. But it doesn't work on IQ, which is what you do not have anyway. Or the dick, which also seems to be lost in the hair somewhere...just like your "brain"...

Size problem, no doubt. Hence so much venom and anger.

Self contradictory per the norm. Speaking of fantasy, notice the pattern of what retards share in common?

[quarktoo]

The joule is the derived unit of energy in the International System of Units. It is the energy exerted by the force of one newton acting to move an object through a distance of one metre.


Actually I had it mostly right *****. You just pasted a quote from wikipedia located here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joule

Now if you were smart enough to notice that "newton" is a hyperlink, then you would have realized that a newton means something. If you would have been smart enough do the math or Google the answer, you would also notice that 1 newton = 102 gram or 0.224871 lb. I got the weight wrong but at least I know what a newton and a joule are. You can't even read, cut and paste without making a fool of yourself.

I Googled the answer and got a page that had a wrong answer located here:

http://www.uwsp.edu/CNR/wcee/keep/Mod1/Whatis/energymeasures.htm

I asked them to modify the page and I went back and edited my error and noted the edit. The difference between an error and a mistake is failure to correct the error. You and the other retards do not own and correct your errors and thus your whole life is a mistake. That lack of integrity is the reason you are so stupid.

[quarktoo]

The truth hurts, mexicano? When stupid usanians stop insulting people for expressing their opinion, we the normal lot will stop revealing their personal truth to the world.

Comprendes, mexicano?

It should have read When stupid people stop expressing their stupid opinions as some sort of fact, we normal people will stop pointing that out.

Not sure what Mexico reference is to. Perhaps he is a self loathing hispanic?

[mark775]

Actually, Cockatoo, the non-English speaker had it better than you...

[quarktoo]

Actually, Cockatoo, the non-English speaker had it better than you...

You and your cabal or retards contribute nothing to the discussion. Why don't you stop harassing people that are trying to have a intelligent conversation above your one liner bursts of stupid.

[mark775]

What conversation? A number of people have tried to get you to leave. Dave just knows more about this than the others (incluing I). I sometimes, like the others, get irritated enough that we forget to let you atrophy. There is no conversation - YOU ARE A MADMAN.

[quarktoo]

What conversation? A number of people have tried to get you to leave. Dave just knows more about this than the others (incluing I). I sometimes, like the others, get irritated enough that we forget to let you atrophy. There is no conversation - YOU ARE A MADMAN.

Here is another source of water fuel that I previously cited. Dr. Mills has been doing what you claim is impossible for decades.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCgud1qkv_A

You don't have the intelligence to discuss the subject you claim does not exist and is fraudulent. You are the one that is crazy. Go away troll.

...but wait there is more...

Rowan University replicates BlackLight's new hydrogen-based energy source.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfjOIoPwolg&feature=related

[Luckless]

Here is another source of water fuel that I previously cited. Dr. Mills has been doing what you claim is impossible for decades.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCgud1qkv_A

You don't have the intelligence to discuss the subject you claim does not exist and is fraudulent. You are the one that is crazy. Go away troll.

...but wait there is more...

Rowan University replicates BlackLight's new hydrogen-based energy source.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfjOIoPwolg&feature=related

Did either of those videos actually explain what their chemical is and how it is produced? "Oh look, we add water and this chemical and we get a massive heat spike!", well yes. You have an exothermic reaction with water. I have yet to see you present something as proof of free energy that isn't commonly known in High School science classes, where it is known as not actually free energy. What energy goes into creating the chemicals used in the reaction?

[hoytedow]

Quarktoo, you just joined in December and have accomplished much. I think you have managed to irritate EVERYONE else on the forum, no matter what their political views. There is more to living than being 100% correct on spelling or grammar, and you can disagree without trying to dehumanize the opponent. If your argument won't stand without insulting slurs, then it baseless. Acting like a turd won't gain you followers.

[quarktoo]

Did either of those videos actually explain what their chemical is and how it is produced? "Oh look, we add water and this chemical and we get a massive heat spike!", well yes. You have an exothermic reaction with water. I have yet to see you present something as proof of free energy that isn't commonly known in High School science classes, where it is known as not actually free energy. What energy goes into creating the chemicals used in the reaction?

You would have to actually do a little research on the subject which would require you to work independently. Just because you don't have a PHD, a lab, experience, know the process, etc. that does not mean that it is not real.

You seem to define knowledge as belief which is a magical thought. If you can't do a little research on your own, then I really don't care what you think since you don't. That is what some of you don't seem to comprehend in your self delusion based in magical thinking and willful ignorance.

Dave has a mind and so I care what Dave thinks since he can and does. He is most likely thinking about two things right now.

1. The empirical science of a sixth grader.
2. Does he really want to open that box on the web and risk his PHD?

People that open that box, never get funding for research again and that is how academia is controlled. Dave isn't a fool, so he isn't going to go there but that question will nag him forever.

But just to prove you have no integrity, now you get to be accountable for this statement:

I have yet to see you present something as proof of free energy that isn't commonly known in High School science classes, where it is known as not actually free energy.

Show me where a high school does Leedskalnin's experiment and then explains that. I could go on and on with questions like that and would if I placed any value on your beliefs - I don't.

The only people that care what you "believe" are those that would want to control, exploit and destroy you. The con always starts by exploiting the belief. Look at where the word "con" as in con artist came from.

[quarktoo]

Quarktoo, you just joined in December and have accomplished much. I think you have managed to irritate EVERYONE else on the forum, no matter what their political views. There is more to living than being 100% correct on spelling or grammar, and you can disagree without trying to dehumanize the opponent. If your argument won't stand without insulting slurs, then it baseless. Acting like a turd won't gain you followers.

They are not opponents, they are trolls and there is difference. Dave is an opponent and once we got that misquote behind us, I treat him with respect both in the forum and in PM. I value his feedback while not agreeing with him most of the time.

Followers have no thinking capacity and that is why they are "followers". The last thing I want are useless followers. I am shocked that such an intelligent person such as you hadn't noticed that. Better?

[Luckless]

If you can't do a little research on your own, then I really don't care what you think since you don't.

Do you do any work in academics? The burden of proof is on YOUR hands, not mine. Give me a paper, proper data sets, and experiment parameters, and I'll take a look at them. I have my own projects to do in realms other than chemistry, I don't have time to run off and start experimenting based on half a clue from an apparent crackpot on some webforum.

All you have shown is an exothermic reaction with water. That is, a chemical is added to water, and heat is generated. This is High School Science Class[b] stuff. Water + an exothermic reactant = heat. You have not shown what chemicals are being used, and you have provided nothing to show free energy.

Simple math for you: Put 100 into A

Now you have your 'free energy' machine that inputs '10' into the system, plus A, and outputs 110.

OMG!! The Free Energy machine is outputting 110, not 10! This is Free Energy! We're producing an extra 100!.

But no, no energy has been created, the extra 100, the 'odd spike', was inputted to the system before hand and out of sight. If you do not know all inputs, such as A, then you [b]Cannot claim free energy because you Have not accounted for all energy input!

[quarktoo]

Dave,

The reason I suggested Leedskalnin's experiment is that the classic EM model is so riddled with flaws it can't explain it. However you clearly have a chemistry degree and perhaps it could be better explained with solid state chemistry as so many things are.

If the coil is able to align magnetic domains, then it is probable that the electron orbits are being changed and held in a state where the atoms become exploitable to cascade to lower energy states.

A laser is not a free energy device, it is an amplifier that concentrates energy in a specific area. The laser in Meyer and Mills for example does not produce free energy but raises the electron orbit plane by placing external heat on mass thus allowing the mass to be cascaded into atomic energy with less electrostatic force.

The atomic energy contained in the mass is greater than the energy that it took to cause the cascade since we used two different forces of the atom instead of just one.

(On a related note - I "believe" there are actually only two original forces of the atom and the other two are just effects of the original two. E.g., Electrostatic force produces the electromagnetic effect. So we are using both forces to exploit the mass as in the following cheesy analogy... - the ying and the yang)

EXAMPLE - However flawed as it is:
I could push you over backwards if I pushed you with enough force but if I had someone get on their hands and knees behind your knees, you would stumble over them and it would take very little force to cause you to fall. I then would have used force and leverage which would amplify the effect of force. When you hit "ground" state, I could harvest your energy by stealing your wallet which flew out of your pocket. :-)

And so that Leedskalnin experiment begs the question, could a M to K band cascade be more efficient if I used Leedskalnin's experiment than if I used a laser or other external heat source since the Leedskalnin's experiment does not require constant input such as a laser?

It doesn't violate thermodynamics if you understand what electricity is. It would be a simple experiment that could be carried out in a cheap vacuum chamber and you could write a paper on the subject that would have people scratching their heads for a long time.

IMO - The best science is not the science that shows an effect or validates others like a cheerleader, it is the science that shows an effect while disproving flawed science. I can give you a peer reviewed paper that proves the intermediate step of AB effect associated with electricity production that I wrote about in a PM. Understand that, and you begin to understand Leedskalnin and a bunch of other vacuum, zero point, what ever you want to call it, non-local fields.

[hoytedow]

They are not opponents, they are trolls and there is difference. Dave is an opponent and once we got that misquote behind us, I treat him with respect both in the forum and in PM. I value his feedback while not agreeing with him most of the time.

Followers have no thinking capacity and that is why they are "followers". The last thing I want are useless followers. I am shocked that such an intelligent person such as you hadn't noticed that. Better?If you read more of my posts, you wouldn't so readily throw around that word intelligent, so I reject it. My fellow trolls and I just prefer less inflammatory remarks. Make your case diplomatically is all I ask. I am guilty of rudeness, as well, but I am also trying to mend my ways.

[quarktoo]

If you read more of my posts, you wouldn't so readily throw around that word intelligent, so I reject it. My fellow trolls and I just prefer less inflammatory remarks. Make your case diplomatically is all I ask. I am guilty of rudeness, as well, but I am also trying to mend my ways.

Then let there be a treaty amongst us and we shall go forth and sin no more.

EDIT -
You must accept that you are an individual and do not speak for others and as such will not be held accountable for others but you don't.

To assume I have not read other posts would be based in belief. You have no way of knowing what I have read and what conclusion I would derive from that.

For example - Between Dave's website link and archive.org I am able to know a lot about Dave. I like Dave and totally agree on the Earthrace hypocrisy and the value of a fast catamaran. I owned a HobiCat as a teen and broke more than one jib cable and mast going fast in rough weather. Wouldn't take a big one into blue water since they don't self right but fun around the beach.


Quarktoo is a busy body, don't make assumptions on what I think or know.
-EDIT

[quarktoo]

Do you do any work in academics? The burden of proof is on YOUR hands, not mine. Give me a paper, proper data sets, and experiment parameters, and I'll take a look at them. I have my own projects to do in realms other than chemistry, I don't have time to run off and start experimenting based on half a clue from an apparent crackpot on some webforum.

All you have shown is an exothermic reaction with water. That is, a chemical is added to water, and heat is generated. This is High School Science Class[b] stuff. Water + an exothermic reactant = heat. You have not shown what chemicals are being used, and you have provided nothing to show free energy.

Simple math for you: Put 100 into A

Now you have your 'free energy' machine that inputs '10' into the system, plus A, and outputs 110.

OMG!! The Free Energy machine is outputting 110, not 10! This is Free Energy! We're producing an extra 100!.

But no, no energy has been created, the extra 100, the 'odd spike', was inputted to the system before hand and out of sight. If you do not know all inputs, such as A, then you [b]Cannot claim free energy because you Have not accounted for all energy input!

Response #2 to match his two responses...

Luckless,

I didn't ask you to do an experiment, I asked Dave to do an experiment. The subject matter is over your head and I don't time, nor am I inclined, to spoon feed you.

Damn... That was still too honest and so it looks condescending.. Lets try a more positive approach.

Luckless,

As a Canadian, you should be very proud of your nations great contributions to humanity. The hockey puck and the square head screw have advanced human development into quantum realms of universal intelligence and eternal wisdom.

We stupid "usaians" did little things like the polyphase electricity that powers your country, computer chips with millions of discrete components that crafted your electrons into the photos on my screen, TV, radio, the spacecraft that carried your incredibly well thought out post 50 thousand miles through space at the speed of light at over 10 gigabits, the internet that connected the Earth, your transportation system both ground and aircraft, much of the science the world knows, etc.


This is [b]High School Science Class[b] stuff.

If you could point me to where a high school class takes a hydrogen atom below the known ground state, I would love to see that. I'm sure that must only happen in an advanced country like Canada.

Those new carbon fiber hockey sticks are amazing! We stupid usaians only invented the materials used to manufacture them. Only Canada would think to use it to evolve a stick.

Better?

[masrapido]

We stupid "usaians" did little things like the polyphase electricity that powers your country, computer chips with millions of discrete components that crafted your electrons into the photos on my screen, TV, radio, the spacecraft that carried your incredibly well thought out post 50 thousand miles through space at the speed of light at over 10 gigabits, the internet that connected the Earth, your transportation system both ground and aircraft, much of the science the world knows, etc.




If you could point me to where a high school class takes a hydrogen atom below the known ground state, I would love to see that. I'm sure that must only happen in an advanced country like Canada.


You are quite an agressive debater, yet you keep posting ignorance. I do not want to go into a boxing match with you but you need to understand the magnitude of the holes in your (missing) education:

Poliphase electricity is NOT usanian invention. Everything you have today, was invented by a Jugoslav. Doctor Nikola Tesla. And he had invented polyphase electricity long before he went to work with that lowlife Edison.

Dr. Nikola Tesla had invented fluoro lights, debated x-rays before Rontgen, remote control, superconductors and many other things you take for granted and in your ignorance think one of you invented.

As for the school, in Jugoslav schools, during the "evil" communism they were studying physics and chemistry at this level in 7th and 8th grade of ELEMENTARY school.

That beats even your "high" schools.

And semiconductors were not invented by usanians either. The first patent for a transistor was made by a canadian. But germans were making them even earlier than that.

As for kevlar, do I need to remind you that DuPont is a french multinational which has the offices in the US, nothing else.

You really need to start thinking about the things you are saying, because you are saying everything wrong.

And when people tell you that you simply insult them, essentially proving yourself wrong.

[Luckless]

Quarktoo, I'm not asking for 'spoon feeding', I'm asking for you to actually provide backing to your claims.

The only 'proof' you have shown is that Water + a Chemical = Production of Heat.

Yes, we do this in Canadian high schools. It is a fairly basic lab where students add chemicals to water and observe the change in temperature. What proof do you have that what is being done in these experiments are any different?

I would like to believe you, but so far you are holding a pen with a red cap on it, and claiming the pen has blue ink. It may very well have blue ink, but to the rest of us it looks like a red pen. So why don't you try writing with it? (That is, provide PROOF)

What Verifiable Proof is there that the experiment you presented in that video was anything other than a basic exothermic reaction within the water, using 'energy' stored in the chemicals used in the tests? Energy that would be depleted over time as the reaction runs? How long does the reaction last per X unit of chemical, and Y unit of water?

What Proof do you have that this is not a scam? Ever hear of the Bre-X scandal? Fudging numbers and out right lies are common tactics used in liberating money from investors. Scientists are not immune to telling a few lies to get a bit of fame or cash, and sometimes they honestly believe they're on the verge of a major break through, so they fudge their numbers a little to get a little more funding so they can drag their dead end science and half cooked theories a little farther while they claw at broken dreams of actually meaning something in the world.

Also I'll ignore your comments on technology, as it is only in your own mind that technology in the USA is more advanced than what is developed in other parts of the world.

[quarktoo]

Quarktoo, I'm not asking for 'spoon feeding', I'm asking for you to actually provide backing to your claims.

The only 'proof' you have shown is that Water + a Chemical = Production of Heat.

Yes, we do this in Canadian high schools. It is a fairly basic lab where students add chemicals to water and observe the change in temperature. What proof do you have that what is being done in these experiments are any different?

I would like to believe you, but so far you are holding a pen with a red cap on it, and claiming the pen has blue ink. It may very well have blue ink, but to the rest of us it looks like a red pen. So why don't you try writing with it? (That is, provide PROOF)

What Verifiable Proof is there that the experiment you presented in that video was anything other than a basic exothermic reaction within the water, using 'energy' stored in the chemicals used in the tests? Energy that would be depleted over time as the reaction runs? How long does the reaction last per X unit of chemical, and Y unit of water?

What Proof do you have that this is not a scam? Ever hear of the Bre-X scandal? Fudging numbers and out right lies are common tactics used in liberating money from investors. Scientists are not immune to telling a few lies to get a bit of fame or cash, and sometimes they honestly believe they're on the verge of a major break through, so they fudge their numbers a little to get a little more funding so they can drag their dead end science and half cooked theories a little farther while they claw at broken dreams of actually meaning something in the world.

Also I'll ignore your comments on technology, as it is only in your own mind that technology in the USA is more advanced than what is developed in other parts of the world.


Yes, we do this in Canadian high schools. It is a fairly basic lab where students add chemicals to water and observe the change in temperature. What proof do you have that what is being done in these experiments are any different?


If all you got out of your research of Dr. Mills Blacklight Power is that he "add chemicals to water and observe the change in temperature." then you didn't research anything which makes my point that you are a waste of my time.

Your average Canadian high school teacher isn't even capable of replicating the experiment much less teaching it.

You don't know what you don't know and you don't know that and have no inclination to change lack of knowing.

Here genius, these five spoon fulls should keep you fed for life.

The Bohren Experiment - American Journal of Physics - April 1983

http://www.cheniere.org/references/bohren/p1.jpg
http://www.cheniere.org/references/bohren/p2.jpg
http://www.cheniere.org/references/bohren/p3.jpg
http://www.cheniere.org/references/bohren/p4.jpg
http://www.cheniere.org/references/bohren/p5.jpg


Also I'll ignore your comments on technology, as it is only in your own mind that technology in the USA is more advanced than what is developed in other parts of the world.

If the US took back all the technology we developed, you would be painting your message to me on the wall of a cave using your own blood and poop as pigment and I would not be bothered by you over the internet.

Next time you have the urge, could you be a pal and pound it out on a drum, send up some smoke signals or better yet, slash your wrists and write it on a rock with blood? Write often and a lot if you choose the latter.

[quarktoo]

You are quite an agressive debater, yet you keep posting ignorance. I do not want to go into a boxing match with you but you need to understand the magnitude of the holes in your (missing) education:

Poliphase electricity is NOT usanian invention. Everything you have today, was invented by a Jugoslav. Doctor Nikola Tesla. And he had invented polyphase electricity long before he went to work with that lowlife Edison.

Dr. Nikola Tesla had invented fluoro lights, debated x-rays before Rontgen, remote control, superconductors and many other things you take for granted and in your ignorance think one of you invented.

As for the school, in Jugoslav schools, during the "evil" communism they were studying physics and chemistry at this level in 7th and 8th grade of ELEMENTARY school.

That beats even your "high" schools.

And semiconductors were not invented by usanians either. The first patent for a transistor was made by a canadian. But germans were making them even earlier than that.

As for kevlar, do I need to remind you that DuPont is a french multinational which has the offices in the US, nothing else.

You really need to start thinking about the things you are saying, because you are saying everything wrong.

And when people tell you that you simply insult them, essentially proving yourself wrong.



Poliphase electricity is NOT usanian invention. Everything you have today, was invented by a Jugoslav. Doctor Nikola Tesla. And he had invented polyphase electricity long before he went to work with that lowlife Edison.

Dearest genius,

We "usaians" come from all over the world and as such, when we become citizens, we become US citizens.

Polyphase (not poliphase) was in fact invented by a US citizen named Nikola Tesla who emigrated from in the village of Smiljan in the Croatian Military Frontier of the Austrian Empire and what is now known as Croatia. (Not Jugoslav) He was a subject of the Austrian Empire by birth and later became a US citizen.

Once they leave a country such as yours, to get away from people such as you, come here and become citizens, they are US citizens. That is what is unique about this country and one thing that makes us better than Chile.


As for kevlar, do I need to remind you that DuPont is a french multinational which has the offices in the US, nothing else.


As for the kevlar, not sure where that comment comes from but you are obviously confused anyway.

Here rocket surgeon:

History of Kevlar
http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/webprojects2002/edwards/history.htm

"Stephanie Kwolek was born in New Kensington, Pennsylvania in 1923. As a child she wanted to be a doctor but was also keenly interested in science. She attended the women’s college, which formed part of Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh, and gained a Bsc in Chemistry in 1946. Due to a lack of funds for a medical course she took up a research position at the Dupont textile fibres laboratory in Buffalo, New York."

As always, your claims are proven to be lies.

Hey could you send my buddy Luckless up in Canada a bag of that goat or llama hair? I am only asking for one small bag as I do not want to reduce your gross domestic product and destroy your entire economy and take away your ability to contribute to humanity in the future. I'm pretty sure the blood loss is going to lower his body temp. since those caves can be so cold.

You are not going to break me, you are only breaking yourself against me. Everyone can see your lies and ignorance exposed over and over.

[Luckless]

For someone who claims to be intelligent, you really are dense aren't you?

You make posts claiming about someone's free energy project, and when called out on it for proof of the free energy you still refuse to explain or show any proof!

Why is it so hard to provide proof of something you believe in. Do you understand the meaning of proof?

From Merriam-Webster

1 a : the cogency of evidence that compels acceptance by the mind of a truth or a fact b : the process or an instance of establishing the validity of a statement especially by derivation from other statements in accordance with principles of reasoning

3 : something that induces certainty or establishes validity
4 archaic : the quality or state of having been tested or tried; especially : unyielding hardness
5 : evidence operating to determine the finding or judgment of a tribunal

7 : a test applied to articles or substances to determine whether they are of standard or satisfactory quality


If you were really an expert in any of this it should be easy for you to provide proof that anything you say is worth more than cheap toilet paper.

[mark775]

What kind of a fool would argue with a conspiracy kook about Tesla? Tesla is a god to the foilhats - I guarantee this guy knows everything from Tesla's shoe size to which hotel put him up when Edison fired him...

I read, and watched, the other free energy kook, Leedskalnin, ad nauseam. I see him demonstrating springs screwing together several different ways. I read page after page of rambling and there is still no way of telling what he's trying to sell. His perpetual motion holder requires a battery to work, and repeating "double helix" and "cosmic force" over and over doesn't help.

Even though I can't prove there are electrons, real scientists are convinced. I can only go by observation. I have seen where heating a filament in a vacuum tube and attracting the "electron cloud" towards a positively charged plate can be used to amplify a signal. Attract that same cloud with a high enough voltage and "X-rays" are emitted when these higher energy electrons hit the plate. I know something is making a shadow of bones on a sheet of film. I can't prove what is happening but I'm convinced the explanations given in school make sense.

I know an MRI scanner makes pictures, but proving the echo we measure is because of the precession of hydrogen protons is beyond us. The people who know this stuff also made an atom bomb just by thinking it through. No amount of imagination or hope could have done that, understanding is the only way.

Anything pasted here or linked to is more than suspect. That is the "tool of the kook" - make it too idiotic, too divergent from what we were taught in school, and we can't refute their circular arguments and dubious science. Everything is suppressed, the government or industry assassins are trying to "get us" (did you notice that Leedskalnin kept looking at the door? Either reason he would do that is enough for reasonable people to doubt him). If a few thousand of his elderly neighbors in Florida, and kooks, send him the $30 donation he'll be able to promote his next elixir and eat for another year without actually working. In this regard, he is a genius with but a sixth grade education.

[quarktoo]

What kind of a fool would argue with a conspiracy kook about Tesla? Tesla is a god to the foilhats - I guarantee this guy knows everything from Tesla's shoe size to which hotel put him up when Edison fired him...

I read, and watched, the other free energy kook, Leedskalnin, ad nauseam. I see him demonstrating springs screwing together several different ways. I read page after page of rambling and there is still no way of telling what he's trying to sell. His perpetual motion holder requires a battery to work, and repeating "double helix" and "cosmic force" over and over doesn't help.

Even though I can't prove there are electrons, real scientists are convinced. I can only go by observation. I have seen where heating a filament in a vacuum tube and attracting the "electron cloud" towards a positively charged plate can be used to amplify a signal. Attract that same cloud with a high enough voltage and "X-rays" are emitted when these higher energy electrons hit the plate. I know something is making a shadow of bones on a sheet of film. I can't prove what is happening but I'm convinced the explanations given in school make sense.

I know an MRI scanner makes pictures, but proving the echo we measure is because of the precession of hydrogen protons is beyond us. The people who know this stuff also made an atom bomb just by thinking it through. No amount of imagination or hope could have done that, understanding is the only way.

Anything pasted here or linked to is more than suspect. That is the "tool of the kook" - make it too idiotic, too divergent from what we were taught in school, and we can't refute their circular arguments and dubious science. Everything is suppressed, the government or industry assassins are trying to "get us". If a few thousand of his elderly neighbors in Florida, and kooks, send him the $30 donation he'll be able to promote his next elixir and eat for another year without actually working. In this regard, he is a genius with but a sixth grade education.

I read, and watched, the other free energy kook, Leedskalnin, ad nauseam. I see him demonstrating springs screwing together several different ways. I read page after page of rambling and there is still no way of telling what he's trying to sell. His perpetual motion holder requires a battery to work, and repeating double helix and cosmic force over and over doesn't help.

If you could read, you would understand that it takes a battery to START not "work". After that, it "works" indefinitely without the battery.

The significance of the experiment was wasted on your sub-sixth grade mind. To understand it, you would need to dig into the work of a couple of guys named Lee and Yang who won a Nobel prize back in 1957. Comprehending it is over your head completely and most likely mine too to some extent.

[mark775]

Did I say something to you, Muffinmind?

[quarktoo]

For someone who claims to be intelligent, you really are dense aren't you?

You make posts claiming about someone's free energy project, and when called out on it for proof of the free energy you still refuse to explain or show any proof!

Why is it so hard to provide proof of something you believe in. Do you understand the meaning of proof?

From Merriam-Webster

1 a : the cogency of evidence that compels acceptance by the mind of a truth or a fact b : the process or an instance of establishing the validity of a statement especially by derivation from other statements in accordance with principles of reasoning

3 : something that induces certainty or establishes validity
4 archaic : the quality or state of having been tested or tried; especially : unyielding hardness
5 : evidence operating to determine the finding or judgment of a tribunal

7 : a test applied to articles or substances to determine whether they are of standard or satisfactory quality


If you were really an expert in any of this it should be easy for you to provide proof that anything you say is worth more than cheap toilet paper.

Hi stupid,

How are you today?

If you were not a dumb troll, you would have read my post which stated:


Here is another source of water fuel that I previously cited. Dr. Mills has been doing what you claim is impossible for decades.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCgud1qkv_A

You don't have the intelligence to discuss the subject you claim does not exist and is fraudulent. You are the one that is crazy. Go away troll.

...but wait there is more...

Rowan University replicates BlackLight's new hydrogen-based energy source.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfjOI...eature=related

I cited a university that replicated it and provided proof. Now if you are too stupid to read then that is not my problem. Pasting pointless definitions and toilet paper references only further make my point.

You are obviously here for one reason and one reason only and that is to troll anyone that discloses free energy technology. That's O.K., you only make my case regarding suppression.

BTW - you are too obvious. Learn from king David, he uses plenty of lubrication and some science based in circular logic to try and disprove it.

If I didn't have you trolls to play with while Dave bones up on that Leedskalnin coil, I would be board. I'm calling it a day, good night trolls.

[quarktoo]

Did I say something to you, Muffinmind?

No, you only make a fool of yourself with your delusional rants and it is done to bury the useful information I have posted. What you are up to and who you are is obvious.

Without oil, Israel loses out on 30 billion a year and the US has no strategic national interest in the middle east and no military to fight Israels wars for oil. The free energy movement is growing, not getting smaller. More people are inventing devices faster than you can suppress and buy them. People are learning science that is suppressed. Sucks to be you huh? You can fight your own wars and make a living working like everyone else rather than making it off everyone else.

[mark775]

I think he's board.

[FAST FRED]

People are learning science that is suppressed.

Seems there is more "science" that is pure political BS than suppressed .

Remember the GLOBAL WARMING HOAX?

FF

[quarktoo]

People are learning science that is suppressed.

Seems there is more "science" that is pure political BS than suppressed .

Remember the GLOBAL WARMING HOAX?

FF

Agreed Fred and in the end it is all the same. While most heard about the emails and false data they were faking to justify the carbon tax, you never heard much about the scientists that lost their careers at NASA and other places for stating the obvious regarding the Sun and its cycles.

I know a scientist that spent 30 years studying the size of the heliosphere and lost it all for stating the obvious truth. They finally figured out a way to tax the light of day and the corrupt government was involved every step of the way.

Most people don't realize that without research grants, most scientist might as well be over educated dog catchers. That expensive PHD and all that work is useless.

So people are taking it upon themselves and you know what? They should have been doing it all along. We got lazy and just kept saying "let the government take care of us." Every tax dollar given to one person was stolen from someone else and for the most part, the ultra wealthy pay nothing and many make their money off government contracts.

It just isn't right but if we all find a common link in that we all want to be free and prosper, we all will. Their worst fear is that we are all going to get on the same page, look around as say "wow, there is 9999 of us for every 1 of them" - game over.

Glad to see we are on the same page.

[Luckless]

Hi stupid,

How are you today?

If you were not a dumb troll, you would have read my post which stated:

//You Tube Links Snipped:

I cited a university that replicated it and provided proof. Now if you are too stupid to read then that is not my problem. Pasting pointless definitions and toilet paper references only further make my point.

You are obviously here for one reason and one reason only and that is to troll anyone that discloses free energy technology. That's O.K., you only make my case regarding suppression.


You have NOT provided Proof. "This guy on a youtube video says this unnamed chemical added to water creates heat!" is Not Proof of Free Energy. If you do not see how this is not proof, then I really don't see how you can function in a scientific community.

In your links you provided nothing worth reading. I'm not going to go digging through the internet to try and find documents that you should be able to easily provide the locations of off the top of your head.

I'm not trying to 'suppress' free energy, I'm trying to get you to cough up something even close to real science and REAL data that shows your claims of free energy are REAL.

Do you know anything about science, the scientific method, or experiment procedures?

This is the only information you have provided for me to actually go on:

1. "Energy in Water" + "Added Energy" = "Energy in Water" + "Added Energy"

2. "Energy in Water" + "Added Energy" + "Chemical" = "Energy in Water" + "Added Energy" + "Extra Energy"

Traditions of science point to any extra energy coming from that added "Chemical", NOT magically coming out of no where.

Where are the experiments that show the process continues on? Where is the data and methodology showing how inputting a small about of energy into this initial breeder reactor allows you to produce enough energy and chemical to run itself forever with energy left over?


The video you posted shows us nothing we haven't seen before. In fact I can set up the exact same 'experiment' using far older tech to give the exact same results you have presented us.

I have a container of water, I put my 'chemical' (coal) into the fire box below this container, add a small amount of energy (fire), and behold! "Free Energy!" The machine produces more energy in the form of heat than the initial energy I used! The water gets far hotter with the coal in the fire box than it would with just the match alone! Give me my Nobel prize!

Yes, I'm a sarcastic jerk. But you still haven't posted any actual data.


Answer these simple questions:
1. Can the system be scaled to generate more power than what went into it to start the reaction?
2. Is the chemical in the reactor depleted over time?
2b. If Yes: What is the process of creating the chemical used, and does the answer in question 1 hold for the power used to create the chemical?

If you cannot answer these questions, then I have a gold mine in Borneo you might be interested in buying shares in.

[CDK]

Quarktoo, I have no intention to join this mud-throwing contest which originated from a totally misinterpreted topic about H2O.

There is however one question I'd like you to answer: can you sing?

If yes, that would explain a lot.

I have a (fortunately distant) German neighbor who firmly believes any other language is a poor substitute. Had the great English poets learned German, they would have produced far superior work.
He is absolutely sure that all major inventions were either done by Germans or inspired by them. And there are conspiracies, like the everlasting light bulb, developed by Siemens and kept in their vault, just like the cable without loss (zero resistance). Eternal motion has no secrets for him, he can show you drawings of mechanical and electrical devices that need to be set into motion only once; some even generate power.

He is a self-centered, almost autistic, dominant man with very limited education. His only virtue is a deep baritone voice that enabled him to make a living as an opera singer.

Btw, I live in the country where Nikola Tesla came from. In fact I visited the place he was born a few months ago. His parents were Serbs, the village is in a very damaged area of Croatia and his career started in Maribor, Slovenia, so calling him a Yugoslav is fairly accurate. All three countries claim his citizenship and honor him with statues. That he emigrated to the US was not unusual at the time: it was considered to be the nation of unlimited opportunities. In Tesla's case, it turned out somewhat disappointing: he died a poor man in New York.

[apex1]

He died young Cornelis.
When you visited the place he was born a few months ago, and he is already dead!??


could´nt resist.............

[quarktoo]

Quarktoo, I have no intention to join this mud-throwing contest which originated from a totally misinterpreted topic about H2O.

There is however one question I'd like you to answer: can you sing?

If yes, that would explain a lot.

I have a (fortunately distant) German neighbor who firmly believes any other language is a poor substitute. Had the great English poets learned German, they would have produced far superior work.
He is absolutely sure that all major inventions were either done by Germans or inspired by them. And there are conspiracies, like the everlasting light bulb, developed by Siemens and kept in their vault, just like the cable without loss (zero resistance). Eternal motion has no secrets for him, he can show you drawings of mechanical and electrical devices that need to be set into motion only once; some even generate power.

He is a self-centered, almost autistic, dominant man with very limited education. His only virtue is a deep baritone voice that enabled him to make a living as an opera singer.

Btw, I live in the country where Nikola Tesla came from. In fact I visited the place he was born a few months ago. His parents were Serbs, the village is in a very damaged area of Croatia and his career started in Maribor, Slovenia, so calling him a Yugoslav is fairly accurate. All three countries claim his citizenship and honor him with statues. That he emigrated to the US was not unusual at the time: it was considered to be the nation of unlimited opportunities. In Tesla's case, it turned out somewhat disappointing: he died a poor man in New York.

There is some truth to what what he said regarding Germans as they do in fact contribute to science in a huge way. When you compare their contributions to other countries of similar population size, the per capita contribution of Germany dwarfs most other countries.

Compare Germany to other countries by population or science and academics produced and see for yourself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population

Some people can't handle the truth or dare not speak it. Here is a simple truth - if it were not for Germany, the US would not control space and much of the technology that NASA has produced over the last half century. Without that space program, you would not be able to sing to me from half way around the world. All generalizations are false, including this one.

You claim to:

have no intention to join this mud-throwing contest

While you sling mud.

You claim that the subject:
originated from a totally misinterpreted topic about H2O.

...yet offer nothing other than mud slinging. You fit right in with the trolls.

Does the term projection mean anything to you? It is something that retards have in common as they go through life with an inverted sense of reality projecting their flaws on others while fearing being exposed, never having a sense of self knowing while in a state of unconsciousness.

Were you above it all when it came to clearing up that misinterpreted subject of water fuel or are you just another empty hat?

[quarktoo]

He died young Cornelis.
When you visited the place he was born a few months ago, and he is already dead!??
could´nt resist.............

While he died financially poor, in the ways a life should be measured, he died a very wealthy man. Few people in history are held in such high regard as Tesla for his contributions to humanity and the love is all you really get to take with you.

Had we been worthy, and had he been free to do all he could have without the interference from scum like JP Morgan, Tesla would have changed the world and ended all war.

He was 86 years old when he died, that is hardly young unless you are a dinosaur. You must have been joking?

EDIT-
O.K., I get your joke.. Ha ha
-EDIT

[mark775]

Luckless, you, Dave, Cornelius, I (most recently post 210), and others have ended this so many times that anyone but a kook should cry craven and slink back under his rock. Even The WikiChileno has bitch-slapped this wacko. Lest we forget, scared animals are wont to do unexpected things;
38864

Imagine a scared animal that doesn't have the same mental faculties as others of its class - say, thru chemical exposure or, more likely, chemical exposure of its mother during pregnancy. Combine this with not having a paternal role-model but many coming and going out of the mother's life with the cycle of the moon. Continued chemical exposure, lack of interaction with peers, beatings...well, you get the picture...
There is no reasoning with a level of paranoia and self-loathing this profound. We must bear in mind that we are not dealing with a being like ouselves - we are dealing with the unmitigable antithesis to a world of reason, the kook.

[quarktoo]

Since you have nothing to offer to the subject of HHO and alternative propulsion, you should go away.

Perhaps Dr. Dave is suddenly absent because he is busy trying to replicate that Leedskalnin coil and explain it, I would like to think that. It is also possible that he ran from the intellectual property of a 10 year old that can't be explained useing classic EM, I would not like to think that. It is also possible that he is not interested in the barrage of trolling that this website allows when someone is promising to demonstrate a principle that makes a free energy device.

Yes, it seems that the trolls and the owner of this web site must have something in common for this to continue day after day.

If you have something related to the discussion, post it. It you only have the pedantic slander of a psycho tell it to your shrink. It has no place here. You clearly have the mind of a child and what you project in every way.

[CDK]

He died young Cornelis.
When you visited the place he was born a few months ago, and he is already dead!??


could´nt resist.............

Very sharp Richard, you must have been wide awake that late.

Quarktoo didn't admit nor deny he also is a singer. But the resemblance is striking: my German singer, who could easily pass for a reincarnation of Saddam Hussein, only laughs over his own jokes.

[quarktoo]

Very sharp Richard, you must have been wide awake that late.

Quarktoo didn't admit nor deny he also is a singer. But the resemblance is striking: my German singer, who could easily pass for a reincarnation of Saddam Hussein, only laughs over his own jokes.

Just keep singing that mudslinging song, you make my point with your every post.

About that psychotic projection I mentioned... Here is your tag line:

Stupidity must be a virtue, whole industries, governments, even economies depend on it......

Whole industries, government and economies are formed out of people. You seem to think you are superior to all of them including me and then you project on others, too unconscious to even know you are and too stupid to even know you prove it every time you click on post.

The only thing that is accurate is how stupid people think ignorance is a virtue as I stated previously. You live in an inverted sense of reality.

BTW - You look very much like Saddam only Saddam was not an alcoholic drunk as you clearly are from the broken veins in your face. - more projection.

[kistinie]

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/propulsion/emission-controls-technical-thread-27515.html#post276616
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/propulsion/emission-controls-technical-thread-27515-2.html#post277248
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/propulsion/emission-controls-technical-thread-27515-3.html#post278822

Did you remember this topic on emission ?
i presented there strong evidence that water is used as a fuel since at least 1929 and in 2009 by most car makers recycling water from exhaust...

Reader will notice the global behaviour that consist in ignoring these facts or suggesting clever answers like injecting coca-cola instead of water.

This is not in favour of loyalty to the water subject but rather looks like lobbying and obscurantism.

Sorry, just the facts.

[quarktoo]

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/propulsion/emission-controls-technical-thread-27515.html#post276616

Did you remember this topic on emission ?
i demonstrated there that water is used as a fuel since at least 1929 and in 2009 by most car makers...

All reader will notice the global behaviour that consist in ignoring these facts.

This is not in favour of loyalty to the water subject but rather looks like lobbying and obscurantism.

Sorry, just real true facts.

WARNING! Real facts in this thread will be met by a great deal of opposition except by me and a few others that are not here to troll.

[mark775]

"slander of a psycho" - I think he just called himself a psycho! (224) Quick, let me get two springs and wind them together. "cosmic energy, Cosmic energy,..cosmic..
38871

[kistinie]

Mark, Do you feel that much uncomfortable or just frighten by science and the universe unknown energies to behave like you do ?

[mark775]

When I first joined, I couldn't understand why sensible people disliked you so much. I thot that you were harmless enough with your free energy promotions and really, who buys that load, anyway?
No, I am not frightened by science but there is no science here. I don't know, maybe if a guy went back and dug thu everything in this thread, he could find a tidbit of an invention that was real but does the fact that about the only people that buy into this are those that didn't go to school bother you?
I don't know you but I have seen your postings and I can assure you that as much as you think that I am an unreasonable, "unenlightened" jerk, I think that, perhaps, people like you got a little too much "enlightening" (Timothy Leary style - you know, "science is a metaphore", "Turn on, tune in, drop out.") at some point. Do you also notice that I have never said a word to you? I just let you go on with your praddle because I didn't feel a need to embarrass you. This Quark fiend, however, came out swinging and I have known people like him ( I volunteered at a mental hospital teaching swimming - really!) and I have come to have no interest for the seriously deranged and delusional violent ones. I don't owe him respect. I don't owe him anything and the sooner he is gone, the better for everyone - especially gullable souls such as yourself.
I don't need to further talk to you. I won't harrass you. What say we just leave it alone? Take a free stab, if you want. I won't respond unless you attack more than once. Okay?

[quarktoo]

I don't need to further talk to you. I won't harrass you. What say we just leave it alone? Take a free stab, if you want. I won't respond unless you attack more than once. Okay?

Would there be any way you could not troll me and anyone else that wants to discuss science here?

BYW - The science Dave and I were trying to discuss while being trolled was covered by two men named Lee and Yang back in 1957 when they won a Nobel prize for it. I'm sure you must be much smarter than two Nobel prize winners...

[apex1]

Very sharp Richard, you must have been wide awake that late.


A good master has a recreative sleep with one eye wide open and a sense for the faulty incidents coming up!

I try to be a good master.

[CDK]

From Kong Fu, David Carradine I presume....

[apex1]

No idea about that.........

[mark775]

Grasshopper leave footprint on ricepaper!

[apex1]

From Kong Fu, David Carradine I presume....

Oh, ja, got it now, Kung Fu!

No I thought I was referring to a job known as Captain in our countries.

Thanks for the ricepaper hint Mark!

[Dave Gudeman]

Quarktoo, I've been reading the discussion, but pretty much left it, at least for now. The reason I left is that is that your latest response to my post discouraged me and I don't see how we can make any progress in a discussion. I offered you two different arguments on our disagreement. The first was a pointer to a knowledgeable authority (an authority that you first brought up) showing that this source agrees with me. The second was a logical proof that the closed-system version of the 2nd Law logically implies the whole-universe version of the 2nd Law. You ignored both. There was no explanation of why the source that you yourself brought up becomes unreliable when he disagrees with you, and there was no attempt to show an error in my proof. You just ignored it.

Also, other postings here have shown that you will not accept physical evidence as reported by anyone who disagrees with you. Instead you will insist that the person reporting the evidence must be doing so in bad faith, that he is involved in a conspiracy to hide what you view as the truth.

What you give me is off-hand references to obscure persons, effects and devices with your personal assurance that these references prove certain things. And when it is your word against all of established physics, I'm sure you can see why I can't just take your word for it --or the word of some random guy on the internet.

So on the very first issue we tried to discuss, the nature of the 2nd Law, we are at an impasse. It seems that you cannot be persuaded by logical proof, knowledgeable authority, or experimental results from established scientists and I cannot be persuaded by personal assurances, or experimental results that cannot be replicated outside of the original experimenter's garage. Given this, I don't know where else the conversation can go from here.

As I've said before, skepticism is a great thing. I think there are far to few skeptics around. Far too many people treat science like a religion and scientists like high priests who have a direct pipeline to Truth. But even if scientists are human beings and prone to error, they are also experts in what they do and basically as honest as anyone else.

How you can think that thousands of scientists every morning check their kid's algebra homework for them, kiss their wife goodbye, listen to oldies on the way to work, and then go into an office to participate in a global conspiracy to hide free energy from the masses --well, that's just unbelievable to me. I've known lots of these guys and they are just normal guys. Smart, but normal guys.

So I do not understand how you come to the conclusions that you do. You seem willing to take the word of any random guy working in his garage with a web page. It makes no difference to you that this is one guy against thousands, that this one guy is a complete amateur who is not only going against the experts but doesn't even bother to listen to learn what the experts know, that the one guy doesn't have any real corrective mechanism for error while the scientists are constantly evaluating and correcting each other. I just do not understand what makes you believe the one guy.

What we seem to have here is a fundamental disagreement on epistemology. Epistemology is the philosophy of evidence and knowledge, and how we come to know what we know. Your epistemology seems completely alien to me. And no doubt, mine seems completely alien to you. With this barrier between us, I can't imagine how we could have a fruitful discussion.

[quarktoo]

Quarktoo, I've been reading the discussion, but pretty much left it, at least for now. The reason I left is that is that your latest response to my post discouraged me and I don't see how we can make any progress in a discussion. I offered you two different arguments on our disagreement. The first was a pointer to a knowledgeable authority (an authority that you first brought up) showing that this source agrees with me. The second was a logical proof that the closed-system version of the 2nd Law logically implies the whole-universe version of the 2nd Law. You ignored both. There was no explanation of why the source that you yourself brought up becomes unreliable when he disagrees with you, and there was no attempt to show an error in my proof. You just ignored it.


Hi Dave,

Sorry to hear that. You have tried to be a gentleman and a scholar in your every post and I admire and respect that. This is not an environment where fruitful discussion is even possible and I allowed myself to become defensive and thus controlled to some extent by the least among us. I apologize for that. My frustration with the magical thinking of learned helplessness is palpable.

To be honest, with all the noise and the time lag, I am not even sure of which knowledgeable authority you are speaking of OR the context of the unreferenced assertion. I had devised a different plan to get us on the same page.

I felt that rather than cite what others had taught you and had become a belief for you, I would show you something through the empirical science and reason that you may not understand. In reality, the process would have only created more questions for you which I thought would be healthy.

While most people would dismiss Leedskalnin's coil as the work of a simpleton, that is the pretentious seed of insanity that springs forth in universities of science all the way down to someone like Mark. (I will explain that more in a moment.)

That coil can be explained through the work of Dr. Lee and Dr. Yang. Uneducated people throw words like vacuum energy around like it is a holy grail of free energy even though they have no knowledge of it. Educated people tend to consider it as pseudo science even though they also have no knowledge of it.

At some point, I would have had you place an amp meter on the coil and notice that it reads a negative amperage in a perpetual state, compressing that spring inside the meter even though there is no amp flow. I felt a light would go on and you would realize that you had just open a path to the vacuum energy field and could see that the pathway was open in a perpetual state.

We tend to use the fluid dynamic analogy of water in a pipe to teach basic electricity. The negative amps on the meter, is a "vacuum" in the pipe. The end of the pipe is located in another dimension of time created by superluminal acceleration. This is why a vacuum energy generator does not produce heat and runs cold. We are not compressing energy, we are draining it.

From there I planned to show how to potentialise that vacuum dipole to do work and then pose a question that would allow you to explore your understanding of the universe with eyes wide open, instead of the science based in belief and rationalized with circular thought which is not science. That is the insanity of common thought agreement or belief and disbelief. - (example - it's true because you and I BELIEVE it's true.)

So while you didn't understand what I was up to, I had a plan and I did it for a reason. In order to deprogram a person, it is useful to gather all the energy and thoughts they have surrounding it and then create an epiphany that blows it all away in a single moment.

This is helpful in the process as people locked in programming do not have the ability to self examine, they are too busy creating and or telling their stories . Fear is the bases of programming. Be an actor, not a reactor.



Also, other postings here have shown that you will not accept physical evidence as reported by anyone who disagrees with you. Instead you will insist that the person reporting the evidence must be doing so in bad faith, that he is involved in a conspiracy to hide what you view as the truth.

What you give me is off-hand references to obscure persons, effects and devices with your personal assurance that these references prove certain things. And when it is your word against all of established physics, I'm sure you can see why I can't just take your word for it --or the word of some random guy on the internet.

So on the very first issue we tried to discuss, the nature of the 2nd Law, we are at an impasse. It seems that you cannot be persuaded by logical proof, knowledgeable authority, or experimental results from established scientists and I cannot be persuaded by personal assurances, or experimental results that cannot be replicated outside of the original experimenter's garage. Given this, I don't know where else the conversation can go from here.


You failed to cite anything specific and so I have no way of defending /debating the accusation and as such the statement is pointless unless you have something to back that up with.


As I've said before, skepticism is a great thing. I think there are far to few skeptics around. Far too many people treat science like a religion and scientists like high priests who have a direct pipeline to Truth. But even if scientists are human beings and prone to error, they are also experts in what they do and basically as honest as anyone else.

How you can think that thousands of scientists every morning check their kid's algebra homework for them, kiss their wife goodbye, listen to oldies on the way to work, and then go into an office to participate in a global conspiracy to hide free energy from the masses --well, that's just unbelievable to me. I've known lots of these guys and they are just normal guys. Smart, but normal guys.


"Far too many people treat science like a religion and scientists like high priests who have a direct pipeline to Truth."


Uh huh... and my experience of you is that you are at times one of them. When posed with a simple experiment that would open your mind to a quantum dimension of free energy, you ran like a Mormon chanting bible verses all the way back to the University of Arizona.

How you can think that thousands of scientists every morning check their kid's algebra homework for them, kiss their wife goodbye, listen to oldies on the way to work, and then go into an office to participate in a global conspiracy to hide free energy from the masses --well, that's just unbelievable to me.

Usage of the word "unbelievable" noted. Belief and disbelief are magical thoughts used to deceive - stop that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness

I seem to recall the original experiment went like this:

A banana was hung from the ceiling of a cage, a ladder placed below it and a few chimps placed in the cage .

Every time a chimp tried to go up the ladder to get the banana, they would spray ALL THE CHIMPS with cold water. It was not long until none of the chimps would climb the ladder to get the banana.

Next, they brought in a chimp that had not been programmed and when that chimp naturally climbed the ladder and get the banana, the programmed chimps attacked the new chimp to prevent themselves from being sprayed with water even though there was nobody around with a hose and it wouldn't have happened.

Conclusion - It no longer required that the scientist program the chimp with the cold water, they began to program each other.

Now if you look at the chimps in this thread, you see that the most dependent and fearful chimp is Mark. Like a well programmed chimp he has a fear of not fitting in or being isolated. He tries to project that onto me by saying go away and so on. That is why they act as a group and why they tend to speak for each other.

Here is a quote from one of his posts to Kistinie when Kistinie asks him what he is afraid of:

I don't need to further talk to you. I won't harrass you. What say we just leave it alone? Take a free stab, if you want. I won't respond unless you attack more than once. Okay?

Notice how he is afraid of being isolated? He only feels safe when he is part of the trained chimp group attacking someone that is going after the banana. By doing what he was conditioned to do, he feels safe and empowered. He is trying to program Kistinie to stay away from the banana and prevent a critical mass outside the fear group.

I on the other hand am the new chimp that jumps up on the ladder shouting here is how you get the free energy banana. The word free energy is powerful in these social experiments as it ironically represents the ultimate psychological banana.

You can gauge the IQ and fear level of the individual chimps by the length of their posts. The shorter or less original their post, the less they are willing to risk for fear of ridicule, exposure of their fear driven personality, insecurity of being outside the safety of a group, less thought to express, etc.

They are completely unconscious of their behavior and the driving force behind it since they were programmed as a very young person. They have never known freedom or love. They define love as I love you because you love me (exchange) instead of, love is a gift and it ended for me when it left my hand or lips. (gift)

You cannot fix someone that has been programmed from birth to be a chimp afraid to get the banana but they are interesting to study.Their behavior is 100% predictable and they have taught me volumes about human development.

Now if you don't think that does not apply to thousands of scientist, you are not one, nor have you ever worked in the field. Research grants will end forever for anyone that discloses or discussed free energy device information or simple cures for most diseases and that is a well known fact. That teaches scientist learned helplessness and the dogma of thermodynamics is pounded into the students from day one along with nonsense that perpetual motion is impossible.

You cannot point to a single thing in this universe that is not in a state of perpetual motion without resorting to the programming that is in you. The notion that there is nothing beyond the speed of light is dispelled by that coil created by a sixth grader and powered by it. You can see it, you can measure it, you can touch it, it is empirical and undeniable. Don't be afraid of the programmed chimps here or elsewhere, they can't hurt you unless you are one of them.



So I do not understand how you come to the conclusions that you do. You seem willing to take the word of any random guy working in his garage with a web page. It makes no difference to you that this is one guy against thousands, that this one guy is a complete amateur who is not only going against the experts but doesn't even bother to listen to learn what the experts know, that the one guy doesn't have any real corrective mechanism for error while the scientists are constantly evaluating and correcting each other. I just do not understand what makes you believe the one guy.


I come to the conclusion that he may be real based on the knowledge that it is possible to do, what he demonstrated and things he stated while doing it but then I know something about a space vacuum generator and you don't.

He is saying and doing things that go right over your head such as:
1. He places his hand on the inverter and states "Ice cold." He didn't say cool, he said "ice cold."

2. It is stated that a single pulse is what is needed to start the device. If he figured that out he would be proud as he is a self trained electrical contractor.

Lack of evidence or knowledge is not evidence and that is simply more circular thinking that you are using to deceive yourself.

If you knew anything about the subject of using space vacuum to produce electricity, you would know that the devices will run cold because energy is being dumped from this time dimension into a superluminal dimension. The dipole is not destroyed and the most perfect dipole in the universe is another dimension of time beyond the speed of light.

A single pulse is what in fact is needed to potentialize the space vacuum flow. I stated that if you did the experiment I would show you how to set that vacuum energy into motion. I will live into my promise and not disclose this information since you declined to climb the ladder and get the banana.

While people normally starts these generators through a crude hit and miss process, if a person understands magnetics and electricity, a single pulse is all that is needed to start it.

While it is a well known that the South pole of a magnet does not have the same lifting capacity of a North pole, that does not stop scientists from claiming that they are equal and that it is impossible to flux switch a magnet to produce a permanent magnet motor. Conversely, that does not stop people from inventing them and obtaining US patents under section 101. The granting of a patent under this section is dependent on a successful demonstration of the invention to a Patent Review Board. All of Meyer's patents relating to waterfuel were granted under section 101.

Three years after the Wright brothers flew a heavier than air aircraft at Kitty Hawk, university professors were still teaching the dogma that heavier than air flight was impossible.

It takes less than 1/10 of a gram to break the connection to the coil wires which will drop a 10 or even 100 lb weight attached, thus flux switching using an electromagnet powered by vacuum energy. That vacuum energy magnet can then be used to flux switch a permanent magnet - think it through.

Again.. Lack of evidence or knowledge is not evidence and that is simply more circular thinking that you are using to justify learned helplessness.


What we seem to have here is a fundamental disagreement on epistemology. Epistemology is the philosophy of evidence and knowledge, and how we come to know what we know. Your epistemology seems completely alien to me. And no doubt, mine seems completely alien to you. With this barrier between us, I can't imagine how we could have a fruitful discussion.
[/QUOTE]

My epistemology is simple as truth always is. The ******** stories that people tell themselves to blame their fear on others are where the story gets complicated.

1. Knowledge is experience
2. There are things that I know and things that I do know know.
3. I don't know, what I don't know.

Things are rarely one thing or the other, rather they are one thing AND the other. Programmed chimps tend to pick sides and be binary since that is reacting and not acting.

Another example is most people feel like there are only two choices available. I.e., I can choose white or I can choose black. There is always a third choice and that is choosing not to choose. The third choice is just as real as the other two.

Mark, and a few others are the programmed chimps that will attack anybody for even talking about the banana.

Dave is an educated chimp that will talk about the banana and reason with you why it can not be eaten.

Kistinie is the hippie chimp that will offer you love if you go up the ladder and bring the banana down.

I am the new unprogrammed chimp that jumped up on the ladder and tried to show you you can have the banana.

We are all just chimps making our way through life searching for enlightenment that only love can bring. It you want to have free energy, you have be free energy. Kistinie is free energy and a being of pure light from what I observed in private messages - thanks for the feedback.

I chose the username quark as it is an elemental building block of matter. My intent was was to run my social experiment one more time and deposit some free energy information in its various forms. It is all free energy related, one thing AND the other. I have learned and grown from the experience as some of you have as well.

Pete Sumarack's representative is named Charolette. Her late husband was Feynmans good friend. The term quark was coined by Feynman. He let Gell-man who has a reputation of being a mean person take credit for it. Feynman said he couldn't be bothered, didn't need any more notoriety. Gell-Mann received a Nobel prize for his work on the quark model.

Feynman gained notoriety during the demonstration of a free energy device known as the Papp engine in a parking lot of Cal Poly Tec. Feynman being a disbeliever that it was possible to create a free energy device unplugged the power cord to the engine that was supplying a small amount of power for the control.

Papp tried to get Feynman to plug it back in for fear it would explode but Feynman refused and the engine exploded. The explosion killed a man instantly and badly injured several others.

Papp sued Cal Poly and and the case was settled in Papp's favor and contained the usual non-disclosure agreement. Feynman did however tell the story again and it can be found out there in cyberspace.

That was the epiphany that deprogrammed Richard Feynman. Prior to his death he and a few other scientists disclosed that Anarov Bohm effect is overunity on public television. Confession is good for the soul.

The Papp engine has been reinvented by Rohner bothers and can be found here - http://rohnermachine.com/

The Papp engine is an example of a mass to atomic energy converter. The vacuum field generator is an example of a quantum time to energy converter. All there is, is space and time and I have enjoyed mine with you.

Best wishes in the new year.

[mark775]

I sincerely wish you a short new year. Best of luck in attaining that!

[quarktoo]

Mark and CDK make my point that they are a waste of skin.

[CDK]

I fully concur!

[quarktoo]

I fully concur!

At least you can admit it.

[apex1]

I always wonder,

who the hell is leaving their kennel doors open?
Does the tax payer know that he pays for internet connection in that asylum?
Why is their medication insufficient?
Was soylent green really a bad idea?

[Boston]

soylent green was a great way to pas spongiform ( prion defects ) mad cow disease for humans

ok back on topic
I didn't read the whole thread so forgive me if I wish for a summary
what was the conclusion
can you hydrolyze efficiently fuel from water in the space available on a boat
and then take advantage of it as a propulsion fuel
whats the verdict

B

[apex1]

forget it

is the conclusion...................

[Boston]

`just checking
thanks Apex
B

[Luckless]

I am the new unprogrammed chimp that jumped up on the ladder and tried to show you you can have the banana.


Try actually showing us. Don't show us a cardboard banana, don't put your hand in your pocket and scream "I have a Banana!" get down off the ladder and Show us a real banana.

[CDK]

Quantum mechanics basics:

An event that doesn't alter the state of matter, will only take place when there is an observer present.
So I unsubscribe from this thread.

[kistinie]

Quantum mechanics basics:
.....
So I unsubscribe from this thread.

We will miss you !
Please will you take St Thomas and APEX the clown with you ?

By what kind of mystery, Quantum mechanics is doing that much effect on you ?
Very strange !