CAD tiredness

[SeaSpark]

Question for everybody working with CAD software for a long time.

I have been working with CAD software for many years. The last years i have become increasingly sick with it. In the beginnings it was exiting to see a drawing or model grow on my screen. Nowadays, even when working on a really good project, i just don't like making drawings this way anymore.

Does anyone recognise this?

[marshmat]

Mm hmm.
And I'm fairly new at it too! Something's always giving you trouble.... a wonky IGES importer, a model file that got filed away somewhere you can't find it....
Nevertheless, I'm sticking with it. I still do my first sketches on paper, but when you gotta fit everything in to a limited and odd-shaped space, and have it line up, and analyze the stresses on it... CAD's the way to go.
And I still get some satisfaction out of seeing ALGOR twist my nice smooth model into a rainbow-coloured pretzel ;)

[SeaSpark]

Would never question the benefits of CAD and software to analyse CAD models we cannot just throw these tools away.

It's that the whole process of making a CAD drawing/model has become increasingly boring to me despite the improvements in software and interface.

[solrac]

As a moderator on an Engineering & Architecture forum, I've just seen this discussion before, don't loose the focus:
Cad is only a tool, one good tool for some tasks,regular for others, and really stinky for the rest. Still not invented the "universal perfect tool" for all tasks, (even the "perfection" can be defined in million ways, depending on who defines it.
Please do not blame the tool, the issue is not there, taking from it as much juice as possible is a question of mastering Cad, and interfacing it to aditional tools for each required task.
Have you ever seen a mechanic blaming his screwdriver? a craftsman blaming his hammer?
If the tool does not fulfill your needs, just try another, out there are a lot of flavours & quality tools fitted for nearly any task.

[SheetWise]

I started programming in 74, and am still doing it today (the average career burnout is just over three years). As software evolves, there are three issues you need to learn to resolve; 1) By design, each new version of the software progressively tries to anticipate your actions and "think" for you. 2) The software thinks for you. 3) The software thinks for you.

I really miss the good old days when computers simply did what I asked them to and didn't argue with me.

If you trust the software and trust the calculations, then let the software do its job and concentrate your efforts on more demanding tasks -- the software will do those someday as well ;) Realize that you can "tweak" a hull design 1000 times with CAD and have real time feedback in the same time you could do 1 by hand. After the CAD "trial" -- modify it by hand -- then go back to the computer.

Here's an analogy. I like the personal touch of a handwritten letter -- but I also like the editing functions of a word processor. When I compose a personal letter I will write it on my computer, and after the final edit I will transpose it to longhand.

Use the computer for what it's good at -- use it as a tool.

[bhnautika]

SeaSpark
I know how you feel having worked with CAD for over 15 years. I always remind myself that I am a designer who drafts not a drafter who designs! I treat it as just a pen and drawing board with a few extras. I sketch and draw everything first to keep the pleasure of doing, and then build it on the screen. I must admit I still get some satisfaction from seeing a plan come out of the plotter for the first time.

[nero]

CAD and most computer OS and software are becoming "user friendly". The problem is that makes them less logical. At one point in time software helped structure or inforce the structure of work flow. Now it confuses and adds in much unneccessary "features".

This comes from a program expanding to do more. (Unfortunantly this is driven by the marketing department.) And instead of making the chisel sharper, they make it capable of turning screws. In other words they are mixing up what the tool was designed to do.

Also the "integration" of web based help database is absurd. Networks complicate and cause problems.

A clean simple basic program with plugins would have been a more powerful way to have gone. Small program file size, small RAM needs. Simple and clean. Something to let me sculpt or draw what I need.

I have stopped the upgrade cycle several years ago with VectorWorks. The latest version still does not do FEA. One exception to the above (at present) is TouchCad. Maybe because it is young. Maybe because it is controled by one person (the owner).

I suppose this to be too amature, but Structurix is a handy little tool. Plug in the points. define the elements, put in the loads and it makes a quick deformation graphic. FEA for structures made basic.

And if you are sick of CAD, retire and go sailing .... just remember to take a notebook because an idea will come and you'll want to have CAD again. smile

[ABoatGuy]

Try an art class in marker illustration. It is a great diversion from the computer and can teach you in pretty short order how to illustrate your ideas in a more free form fashion. You can get a lot down on paper really fast, so only the bottom line ends up on the computer. Saves endless hours moving lines around and it has the benefit of being more understandable for a client that doesn't visualize line on a computer as well as you do. Gets the blood moving again, but when it is all said and done the shop still needs good working drawings.

[Hans Friedel]

Yes sometimes it is a struggle just to watch the screen. Mostly when you work with Cad programs (or just a computer) you are alone and that can be rather boring.

I like working with Rhino and renderings a still fun to do. And as someone mention sometimes you get an idee that you would like draw and see how it looks.

I tries not to work to late and sort of minimize my computer time.

Hans

[Tim B]

The important thing to remember is that CAD is only as good as the people who write it and they are only as good as the feedback they get.

The problem we have at the moment is that Naval Architechts and yacht designers are very much a minority group. That is why the commercial software tends to err towards Automotive (and occasionally Aerospace) facility.

So there are two ways to go. First we write our own software, or use Open-source (or free) software, or second we use the commercial software and get out of it what we can.

That solves the what software issue (and implicitly which OS (MS, Linux, Mac or Risc-OS) but there is an underlying issue as to how you will use the software.My Personal method is as follows:
1) Sketch hull on paper (only rough), so I have a good shape.
2) Draw the hull so I like the look of it.
3) Check hydrostatics
4) Adjust until correct and work out keel location, rig etc.

5) Optional - Print out and draw deck by hand
6) Draw deck, cockpit etc. (mae sure engines/tanks etc. fit now!!!

7) Print out (Plan and profile with scale) on A4 and start sketching an interior. (Also decide bulkhead positions.

8) Draw on CAD.

9) Repeat Steps 7 + 8 until everything fits.

It's very refreshing to sketch things by hand, it's also often faster. It's also generally easier to discuss things with clients over a sketch, rather than CAD.

Tim B.

[SeaSpark]

Thanks for all your quick replies.

Looking back i think i should have minimized my computer time long ago.

In recent years it has been different but there have been more then ten years of 8+ hours of CAD work a day for engineering companies. Working behind a screen in general doesn't bother me too much. Lately i have picked up my 50ft design again http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=5173 (stripped down version, yes i know bow is unfair) this is not a project for a client but a one of my own so motivation is high. Even with this project i find i hard to point and click time and time again.

Thanks again for al your suggestions,

Jeroen

[Gilbert]

Many years ago when I was first getting aquainted with computers I happened to read an article about a study that was done by a union whose member's jobs required using computers throughout their working day. These people were complaining about the fatigue they were experiencing. The union did a huge study and determined that people using computers need to have a thirteen minute break every hour to avoid fatigue. If my recollection is correct they negotiated a thirteen minute break for their members each hour in their contracts.

[SheetWise]

Gilbert --

There has always been a misunderstanding in the programming field about the number of hours a programmer works. I know I work about 15-16 hours a day, and have for the past 30 years -- but what that means is that I am "at work". That's why programmers have such nice offices and so many diversions in their work space. In 15-16 hours a day "at work" I probably work 10 -- you've gotta take breaks, and take them when you need them -- not when they're scheduled. This means you either work where you live or live where you work. I have always lived where I work. People who employ programmers or designers need to understand this -- they would have a lot less burnout if they accomodated. People who do this work need to understand it as well. Creativity is not employed 9-5, you can't turn it on at 9 and you can't turn it off at 5 -- it has a germination period and it has inertia -- it simply is what it is, and clocks mean nothing. Try explaining that to a 9-5'er. ;)

[CDBarry]

I have found that an appropriate selection of CD in the drive helps. I use the following for heavy CAD work:

Paul Simon, "Graceland" - getting going initially
Various Chieftains - throughout the day
Ormandy, "Carmina Burana" - after ten or more hours straight

[StianM]

Question for everybody working with CAD software for a long time.

I have been working with CAD software for many years. The last years i have become increasingly sick with it. In the beginnings it was exiting to see a drawing or model grow on my screen. Nowadays, even when working on a really good project, i just don't like making drawings this way anymore.

Does anyone recognise this?

I don't understand what your talking about.

I don't find cad interesting at all and hate every hour I spand at it.

I prefere to crawl around the enginerom solving start up problems with electrics and mecanics.

[SheetWise]

CDBarry -

You're right. There is a magical synergy between music and creativity -- as well as rhythm and productivity. I once worked four months straight listening to Pink Floyd "Wish You Were Here" -- I couldn't believe how much work I was getting done. After work, I would listen to Ella and Louis. ;)

[Raggi_Thor]

...In the beginnings it was exiting to see a drawing or model grow on my screen. Nowadays, even when working on a really good project, i just don't like making drawings this way anymore....

I think I understand, I enjoy the early phase more than the final detailing. It's more fun to do the 3D modelling than solving a details and producing drawings. I try to automate tedious tasks though.

[Sander Rave]

Hi Jeroen,

I understand what you mean, and the parallel with the screwdriver does not work... You can use a screwdriver intuitively, but try this with a leatherman to the 100th square root, because that is what you do on a CAD system. There is always at least one step between intuition and action. More when your CAd software is more sofisticated.

Only one advice that comes to mind this late hour; use the right tool at a certain moment of your design process. Don't let the computer limit you in conceptual drawings, but whet you have the picture clear, start transferring to the program. In my oppinion its unwise to start in the computer, because you let yoursel limit your design by what you know of the program, and by the limmitations you have.
When you make a translation from paper to PC, you force yourself to make the design you intended to.

I can talk a long time about this, in fact the reason I'm here is because I'm working late on a project that should be finished in some days, but it could have been finished two weeks ago if I was as sharp and focused as a year ago when starting this project. Bottom line is the CAD program bores me to death, and I know what problems lay ahead of me, and I know what error messages I'm gonna get next moment when I pick up my project again...
And don't call me a massogist ;-) I'm back to work, good luck!

[SeaSpark]

Sander, you exactly describe how i feel sometimes.

Bottom line is the CAD program bores me to death, and I know what problems lay ahead of me, and I know what error messages I'm gonna get next moment when I pick up my project again.

Heb ik niet eens een kolibrie met heel veel stickers gezien?

[ABoatGuy]

CDBarry,

You really nailed it! When things need to get done, on go the headphones and the music! Whatever music works for you.

[yipster]

i do paper, cad AND bilge exercise
do recognise most issue's tho guy's

[goolawah]

Building/ restoring boats, or going sailing is a great antidote for computer exhaustion. :rolleyes:

[ludesign]

Hi Jeroen,
Bottom line is the CAD program bores me to death, and I know what problems lay ahead of me, and I know what error messages I'm gonna get next moment when I pick up my project again...
And don't call me a massogist ;-) I'm back to work, good luck!

Perhaps you are using the wrong program. In my opinion, there is a huge difference between the available marine design programs in terms of ease of use and shape feedback to te user. A good program should provide at least as quick feedback as on paper. If it doesn't, I agree, working on paper helps. Nowadays I rarely use paper at all for sketching, even though I did at least ten to fifteen years of working just on paper.