Old hobie cat rigging, new boat.

[MattBentti]

Hello All, i'm Matt Bentti, 22 year old sailor, boat design dreamer.
On the coast around volusia florida, edgewater.

Planning my first wooden/epoxy hull build.

materials i have available at the moment, are the old rigging from my busted up hobie cat

24' mast
9' boom

will be restoring all that and buying new block and tackle, blah blah.

what i'm interested in, is insight and advice about a wide beam mono hull, to use the hobie gear on (yes i still have all the old sails and such)

at the moment i'm not opposed to any styles that i can think of, however a twin keel, daggerboards maybe? interests me to aid the heeling.

other than that i'm open to any and all suggestions, and thank you for your time reading my first post, i'm happy to now be a part of this forum.

[Doug Lord]

Welcome to the forum, Matt! An aquaintance of mine-Tinho Dornellas- runs a windsurfing school at Kelly Park in Merritt Island , just to the south of you. He just had someone donate an old glass Thistle and modified it by putting a Hobie 14 main on the boat-118 sq.ft. vs the 136 of the normal Thistle main. I'm presuming you have a broken(?) Hobie 16 mast since the 14 mast is 22' and the 16 mast 26'6''. At any rate, the 16 sail area is 218sq.ft. and just as an example of a fairly wide beam boat that carries close to that much area I picked another Sandy Douglass designed boat- the Flying Scott which at 19' has 191 sq.ft. SA:
Flying Scot® Sailboats
Address:http://www.flyingscot.com/ Changed:10:42 AM on Saturday, April 8, 2006
You have to make a decision about whether you want a keelboat with self righting characteristics or will a centerboarder do? If you don't really want to build from scratch consider getting an older hull about the same length or a little longer and fix it up. You could look thru various designs for a boat requiring 218 sq.ft. of SA and maybe purchase plans after first running your rig idea by the designer.
If you'd like to see Tinho's Thistle modification just drive down 95 to 528 and go straight toward the beach until you come to the Banana River Drive exit(about 2 miles after the first bridge but before the second bridge); Kelly Park and Tinho's school is right there.. Good Luck! And keep us filled in on what you decide to do...

[MattBentti]

it must have been a hobie 16, the 26'6" sounds more like it, unbroken.

and yes i've seen the school on many occasions, but have yet to visit, hopefully someday soon.

The flying scot's are a very nice hull, and a step in the right direction, however i'm more interested in building the hull myself, or rebuilding/modifying as opposed to buying new.

Currently searching out hull designs for the appropriate 218 sq ft sails. :D

Intercoastal wayerway/ light beach conditions boat.

before i say anything else, i've got ALOT to learn about the specifics of how all parts of the boat flow together, IE, best keel/centerboard/twin daggerboard,etc will work best, rudders, hull shape, yadda yadda, and i'm learning alot as i go :)

[MattBentti]

bump...

[MattBentti]

i dont think the multi hulls forums is the best place for this thread, my main goal with it is the aim for a mono hull idea, for a hobie cat 16' mast + rigging, not the catamaran itself

[messabout]

Matt:
We need a little more information about you before beginning to suggest a suitable boat to go under the Hobie rig.

What size boat are you contemplating ?
Are you a very competant sailor or a beginner or somewhere in between ?
How hard are you willing to work while sailing ? The Hobie rig is tall and powerful, are you a good swimmer ?
What is the primary use for your boat ? Is it just to go out and sail fast, cruise the ICW, go on dates, go fishing, or ........? First decide the primary purpose and then we can go from there.

If you just want to go fast, you could consider a Proa, cat, or even a tri. If it is to be a monohull you can go fast with a long skinny boat and a huge rig. One does so at ones own peril. Think International 10 square meter canoes and you get the idea.

Let us know what it is that you want and chances are we will get a lot of interesting (and conflicting) advice. Let the fun begin.

[MattBentti]

Well, i agree, and appologize for not going into better detail before.

I'd never meant to think about making a boat smaller than the hobie 16, use the hobie rig; however, i thought it would have to be around 18'-19'+.

My time sailing has been rather light, a couple small cabin cruisers, i LOVED sunfish, some prams, and thats about it. It wasnt till i joined The Halifax Sailing Club in daytona beach, that i really got hooked on the speed of it all
I'm a more than competant swimmer, and would definantly be building positive flotation with foam into the hull.

Anyway, for the boat, I rather enjoy more effort and activity while sailing, however simplivity isnt bad either. I'm really interested in building a nice river speeder, go fast as hell, and be able to hold a few people as well, i guess a boat that size would be close to 4-6, i'd hope you could sail it with 1-2 people in light winds.



And this morning as i picked up the trusty field guide to sailboats, 2nd edition. I started searching out boats that where related to the sail area of the hobie rig, which Lorsail hinted at, and i've become very interested in the:

C-Scrow
http://www.ncssa.org/cscowprofile.gif


20ft.
Draft:3f. 3in.
Beam:6ft 10in.
weight: 650 lbs minimum
(Sail area: 216 sq. ft.)
Designer: Inland Yacht Association

Anyway, the simplicity really stood out to me, however i'm kicking around ideas of an longer than 20ft one, modfied to use the hobie's jib as well.



PS: What are your opinions on filling an aluminum mast with foam, or is it even a reasonable idea?


Looking foreward to your thoughts.

[frosh]

Hi Matt, I like the suggestion of Doug re C class scow, however I noticed the weight at 650lb. This is super heavy by Aussi standards and could be halved in weight easily and still be strong enough. With a 300 lb boat and two competent crew aboard with the Hobie rig (jib included) this thing should really move, provided your sailing area has reasonable flat water as scows hate large waves. To get ideas on strong construction methods at light weights I suggest that you obtain the following book.
The Gougeon Brothers on Boat Construction, 5th. Edition. :)

[Doug Lord]

I didn't really suggest a scow but it's a great idea for this area of Florida! If it was built extra lightly that would be a boost as well-I say go for it. You may or may not know about the Lake Eustis Sailing club almost due west from you. Hosts some major scow regattas... Your boat wouldn't be class legal but it sure would be fun to show those guys what a powered up light scow looks-and sails-like.

[MattBentti]

Frosh: I'll definantly look into that book, thanks for the thought!

Lorsail: i went and spoke to tinho at the kellypark windsurfing school, great guy, thanks for the advice, seeing the hobie 14 rig on that rugged thistle gave me some confidence in my ideas.

and the area i will mostly be sailing in is the ICW, which is the closest, unless its heavy winds, there isnt much chop, especially on the windward side of the channel.

my ideas of a light speed demon for the weekends are slowly coming together, thanks for the ideas and keep em coming!

[MattBentti]

update: just bought the book frosh, looks great, cant wait till it gets here.

and on the scow note, i'm not married to that design yet, its just the one that has most stood out to me

i'm more than willing to surpass comfort for speed :)

i'm imagining butt rests on the sides, with a stern to bow hiking band for the feet!

anyway i'm signing off, goodnight all!

[frosh]

Hi Matt, You have made quick progress. I have owned a few scow moths in the past and they were the most fun boats I ever owned. The reason being that you sail them heeled upwind to get maximum leverage and they a nice feel with the crew sitting a fair height above the water surface. Off the wind providing the all up weight is fairly light scows just plane and plane faster. It is a fantastic sensation. If there was a sailing scene for A or C class scows in Australia I would be into it for sure. Regards and best wishes. :)

[MattBentti]

cannot for the life of me find any purchasable c-scow type design plans to buy or find.

I even gave Melges in WI a call, "sorry the info we have on the website is the only info we have available" thanks alot lady!

any thoughts? been googling for hours >_<

edit: Since i will be modifying any design i find with the hobie 16 mast setup main and jib, i'm wondering about professional designer consultation.

i also remember looking at a local designers webpage recently, he's out of st augustine FL, and has some info about unstayed masts on his site, i just cant remember what or where it was!

[frosh]

Hi Matt, the way I see it is like this. I assume that you have the necessary desire to build the monohull and some wood working skills. If not then this project is unlikely to reach fruition. If the answer is yes, I would get a professional designer locally to produce a design and plans based on an existing boat that you like the look of. It is never going to be your cheapest option but can be heaps of fun and very rewarding when it is done. The cheapest option is probably to forget about your Hobie rig and buy a second hand monohull that has been sitting in some ones garage for a while and is just taking up room. Best of luck. If you want to look at the lines of an old but very good scow design, which was an Australian Moth go to:
www.moth.asn.au/download/Cole_super_moth.pdf

[Doug Lord]

Matt, the guy you were thinking of is Eric Sponberg; check ou his website at: www.sponbergyachtdesign.com ; he is a great guy -very approachable- but having a custom design done by a man of his caliber is not cheap. Talk to him and if nothing else he may be able to point you in the right direction.

[MattBentti]

thanks, i do have the will and the skills, talking to eric will be my next step.

[frosh]

Good one Matt! :)

[messabout]

Matt; The C-scow is a good pospect and so is the M-20 scow which is about the same size as a C. The M-20 has a tunnel bottom and it will really fly. I once owned one of those and it is one of my all time favorite boats.

If you want to make things simple and still very fast, you can think of a plain old flat bottomed skiff. When correctly designed they can be startlingly fast, they can be built light, cheap, and quickly. A sharpie like design is sailed to windward with about 12 to 15 degrees of heel, whereupon the underbody becomes deliciously efficient. Standing up, as on reaches and runs, it will plane like a demon.

There are a jillion flat bottomed skiff designs out there. Some of them won't do what I just said they'd do. Look for one with the forefoot elevated a little above the waterline and the after part of the bottom going upward toward the transom in an almost straight line. The deepest part of the bottom should be a little foreward of amidships, and the widest part of the bottom somewhat aft of amidships. Viewed in plan, the forward section of the bottom should show very little curvature. Not a straight line but nearly so. A boat of this sort at about 20 feet LOA can weigh somewhere in the 250 pound range if you select materials carefully. Keep the boat as narrow as you dare.

The flattie will not be as quick in light air as something like a Thistle, C-scow, M-20, or similar. It won't be a dog either as long as you keep it light. One of the appeals of such a boat is that it does not look as fast as it is. In a breeze you can embarras some pretty good boats.

Now all you guys can attack me for having the audacity to suggest such a fundamental boat. I will remind you of the old time Sandbaggers, and similar hot rods. This boat is not likely to humiliate many FDs but it will go very well indeed. You can use a trapeze or a sliding plank if you like. That'll be exciting.

(Doug, dont be telling Matt to fit foils to it. Not yet anyway )

[MattBentti]

i've been in love with foils since i saw them and started reading about them, but this is just a project that i want to keep simple, i'd rather make a new boat than restore the trashy old hobie 16 hulls.

i'm getting most of what your saying, but would you mind dropping some links with photo's of your ideas? there are TONS of "flat bottom skiffs" and "sharpie's" out there :)

[MattBentti]

lets also keep in mind the high aspect of the hobie 16 main sail, this thing is definantly going to heel

[frosh]

Hi Matt, thought that I would just drop my 2 cents worth after the last poster (messabout) suggested a simple flat bottom skiff as narrow as you dare. I beg to disagree with this view, as apart from being simple to build, seems to have only disadvantages. The H16 rig is fairly tall and powerful, and will likely overpower this type of hull even in moderate winds, unless all the crew were hiked out on trapezes or planks.
Secondly, the bottom shape has less efficiency than either a slightly curved V bottom or a C class scow shape, and would not handle as well.
Thirdly if you are seeking a hull shape with sufficient RM to resist the sail forces of the size of the H16 the scow shape which is truly designed to be sailed heeled upwind, (and I dispute that the sharpie skiff is), will work better in higher wind strengths.
Fourthly, in lighter winds, the M scow shape (if it has a tunnel bottom) will plane a lot earlier than the sharpie skiff. Nothing wrong with the C class scow shape either for early planing. I still think that the Moth lines that I refered you to earlier on, is a good basis for say a 20 ft. scow.
Best of luck with your final decision. :)

[MattBentti]

Doh! i didnt see that pdf until just now, looks really slick! thanks frosh.

[MattBentti]

another update, check my user gallery for an image of the HUGE mast upright with an outline for a size comparison ha 20ft LOA, hahaha OMG ITS ALL SAIL!

[frosh]

Hi Matt, I just looked up the Hobie web site, and if you have the full size rig, then it is around 210 sq. ft. in area. This should work fine on a scow approx. 20 ft. length by around 7 ft. beam. I also had a look at the scantling rules for the 20 ft. C-class scow and they seem very thick and heavy suggesting that they were drawn up a long time ago. With newer materials and techniques a lot of weight can come off.
I also noticed that the E-scow (38 ft. version) has been clocked at over 30 knots, which is a fantastic speed, probably as good as the Tornado cat can acheive under optimum conditions. :)

[MattBentti]

aye, i hear ya, 38 feet is a LOT of boat for the first time river project :D

[messabout]

Frosh:
I Respect your gentlemanly disagreemnt with my Flattie scheme. The thoughts were to have a new boatbuilder keep things as simple and practical as possible. Cost considerations, building time, and general utility are worth some attention. The 20 foot flat skiff can easily accomodate 4 or 5 passengers which Matt says he may sometimes have. A scow of the C or M type is not so commodious. Incidentally the 38 foot scow is called an A-Scow and they are indeed tremendous performers. The E is smaller at around 28 feet. The E is also a go fast machine.

A most interesting exercise can be done on behalf of flat bottomed skiffs or any other body form for that matter. Try this..... Lay out a body plan for a simple three panel boat. Draw in a waterline. Examine the underwater sections. Find the centroids (center of area) of each section. When the boat is upright the centroids will lie on a straight line and the plan view of the waterline will be sort of boxy. If the forefoot is below the WL the box will be pointed in front. Not the way to do it. Better to have the forefoot up. Now heel the boat to about five degrees and examine the centroids. Notice that the foreward and after sections will have the centroids displaced to leeward. Lee helm will result. It should be obvious that the boat is displacing water to leeward in foreward sections and requiring the water to come back toward the centerline near the mid ships sections then back to leeward in the aft sections. A condition to be avoided I believe. Now continue heeling the body plan and locating the individual centroids. Notice that the centroid points begin to align themselves. At somewhere around 15 degrees there will be perfect alignment. Moreover the plan view of the waterline will appear as a very elegantly streamlined narrow shape. The waterline is also lengthened as you can readily see. At the same time wetted surface will have diminished nicely. When in this attitude the underbody presents a somewhat larger lateral area that is useful. When these things are working right you can raise the the centerplate about a third without sacrificing to leeway. In this attitude the flattie is an impressive performer. Continuing to heel toward larger and larger angles the centroids at the ends will begin to move to the windward side causing serious weather helm. Indeed the flattie has an envelope of best sailing angles. So do boats of other configurations.

A vee bottomed or rounded bottom behave in quite a different manner. Do up a body plan for either or both those types and you will probably be persuaded that zero heel is the better plan. We are not talking keel boats here. To be sure some of the big boats are purposefully designed to optimize centroid positioning and waterline length when in a heeled attitude. Small boats can be designed to accomplish the same goals. As a matter of fact nearly all the inland lakes scows use that premise. They have optimum heel angles. That is why most of them have twin bilgeboards and twin rudders that are angled outward at the bottoms. The downside of the simple three panel construct is that the sharp chines make more eddies and surely more drag when sailed upright. Unfortunately, one can not have it all. Who can refute the claim that a flat bottom will plane more readily than a vee or round bottom ?

As for righting moment, square chines contribute appreciably more than round or beveled chines. A flattie with a 48 inch bottom beam will generate well over 600 foot pounds of righting moment while heeled to 15 degrees and displacing about 500 pounds. Two or three hearty fellows hiking in the typically strenuous way may well increase RM beyond four figures.

[frosh]

Hi messabout, some of what you say is is true particularly the first bit of your argument. However I believe that you are suggesting a shape like the 1911 year of origin Star Keelboat. Not too bad a shape building wise and for righting moment, but importantly only good at displacement sailing when heeled. The wetted surface and form drag of the flat sharpie shape is fairly high when heeled. In recent times light high power to weight centreboarders can plane to windward, and this is what I have had in mind with the scow hull shape if built at light weight, and crew hiked well out, preferably with one on trapeze or even two if sailed three up in moderate to fresh winds. :)

[messabout]

Frosh:
I think that you'd be a genuinely good adversary in a debate about the relative merits of various floating objects. I wish I could buy you a few pints and have a friendly go at that subject or whatever else we may choose to examine.

A Star boat in my mind is a very well developed, elegant tub. (I hope there are no Star boat types reading this) The Star is by no means a Flattie skiff although it has flat paneled skin components. It has A slightly convex bottom, a weighted keel, and too much rocker for a go fast boat. It is indeed a displacement hull and is sometimes capable of surfing but not planing. The 110 is another example of displacement boat, cum keel, that is flat paneled. It is a double ender that is quite narrow. A displacement boat too, albeit a pretty fast one.

If you have a basic computer program that will do flat panel boats then do the heeled condition research. In fact the hard chine boat at heel angles of more than about 12 degrees has very impressively small wetted surface. It is difficult to get a light weight boat to do much better than ten or eleven pounds per square foot of wetted surface. The flattie will easily exceed 13 pounds per square foot in heeled attitude. Heavily loaded boats will do much beter with weight to wet surface ratio, but heavy boats are not generally considered fast boats. Imagine an underwater shape similar to that of the old Piver designs. Piver trimarans such as Nugget. They were pretty slick in their day. A good skiff can duplicate that shape and aspect ratio. They will not likely plane to windward but neither will a C or M scow despite the lies of their afficianados. As a former scow fiend I know first hand about these things. The M20 has a 27 foot mast, big jib, and spinnaker. It was plenty fast to windward but did not actually plane in the usual sense of the word.

I reckon a 49er will plane in any direction but then that is a pretty wild and perilously over canvassed boat. I reckon some or all of your Aussie 18s might do that too. An anvil will plane to windward when you put a square kilometer of sail on like the Aussies do. Wet surface be damned. Any way wet surface is a primary concern when sailing at or below hull speed but of diminishing consequence when going like a bandit.

Matt: Forgive me for hijacking this thread to indulge in an argument with a down under friend. There is actually some value in arguments of this sort, because it exposes you to various schools of thought and occasionally some technical aspects that you may wish to apply. I'll try to contain myself henceforth.

Here is another idea. Dial up the Y-Flyer web site. The Y is a scow that is built of plywood. It is not as big as the boat we are looking at here, but it could be scaled up a bit to do the job. Ys are pretty lively but they have an unrealistic weight rule that makes them less hot rod and more family boat. They need not be built as heavy as the class rules specify. It's a fairly easy build, and it makes a good looking boat too.

[frosh]

Matt: Forgive me also for hijacking this thread a little, but I must make a response to messabout re his last posting. However something good might come out of the debate.
Messabout, I do not have a computer program that will do 3 D analysis of boat hulls, however the problem under discussion is really too simplistic to require a computer at all.
I have in the past studied underwater sections for racing kayaks which being human driven are very critical for even the slightest improvements in drag components.
This situation of the flattie is absolutely comparable to the kayak situation.
Ignoring stability issues the slowest cross section would be a simple V shape as this would have the greatest surface wetted area. The lowest surface area cross section is a semi-circle however this is not the lowest drag shape at sub-planing speeds, but it is not far off. My understanding is that for the kayak the best low drag shape is semi-circle but decreased in radius with flared out topsides.
My understanding of the shape you suggest, and you also say that the flattie will not be planing upwind is a shape very close the simple V that I described above. How do reconcile this apparent contradiction?
Getting back to Matt's decision, I agree with you that the Y Flyer is an easy build and also looks as if it would perform fairly well. Probably needs scaling up though, and built of around 4 mm Okume marine plywood. :)

[MattBentti]

i've learned alot from the debates and by all means i dont mind you guys talking about diffirent things at all, its all somehow related and is good.

mess, i have done a few sketches of a 3 panel boat, and found the 15+ heeled wetted surface to look rather like a nice airfoil.

However, i'm not entirely sure about the correct shapes you were trying to convey, here is what i came up with.

As i draw these pictures after i post this, i'l be checking out the y flyer

[MattBentti]

i'm having horribly problems with my internet connection at the moment, could you link a couple images of the simple 3 panel type of hull your talking about mess?

do the 2 side panels intersect in the front vertically, or does the bottom panel come up to the deck at the front, and the side panels are just the sides. ?

anyway, i have seen the niceness of the flat bottom wetted suface while heeled.

[MattBentti]

i'm really liking the y flyer shape


btw whats the diffirence between a transom that leans towards fore and one that leans aft?

[messabout]

Matt: Google up Chesapeake Light Craft. Look for the boat they call; Jimmy Skiff. Thats a three panel boat. There are many others of similar layout.

In answer to a couple of your questions..... You can have the sides vertical and it makes a super simple boat. But it is kind of ugly that way. Bolger does the vertical side bit frequently and with impunity. He argues vehemetly for the merits of such a layout. Simplicity is king with Bolger and he is a way smart old dude even though controversial. The usual example of the skiff/flattie/sharpie boat type has some flare in the sides. It looks a little more boaty that way and it also adds a little extra righting moment when at large heel angles.

The bottom is rockered at both ends. Both ends are above the waterline by a little bit. There is usually some rake to the stem. Raking the stem shortens the waterline but it makes flared sides come together at the front more easily during construction. It also helps keep some of the splashed or sprayed water out of the boat. In no case does the skiff bottom simply curve upward to meet the top of the stem. There are such boats however. They are often called garveys when laid out like that.

Transoms: When a transom is raked forward its kind of sexy looking. Boats of that sort have rudders mounted forward of the transom out of practicality. Foreward raked transoms take some of the weight out of the aft end of the boat, that arrangement also reduces the windage at that end of the boat. Forward rake is mostly a characteristic of big boats who carry the bottom/transom intersection way above the water line. If not kept well above the water, a following sea situation will cause potentially dangerous problems like broaching. An aft raked transom that is sharply angled, say like a dory, is to help the boat behave when exposed to following seas or wave trains approaching from aft. Outboard powered boats will have an aft rake of about 15 degrees because the outboards are built to work with that amount of transom angle. A transom mounted rudder in either foreward or aft raked configuration becomes problematic. The rudder will tend to lift or bury the after end of the boat depending on which way the rake angle goes. A hot rod boat would probably be better with a vertical transom.

[ABoatGuy]

Hi Matt and welcome.

Keep in mind as you are thinking about your project, that the primary load on a mast is compression.

The compression in the mast comes from the righting moment of the boat and the shroad angle to the mast. A Hobie cat has a fairly wide shroud base compared to the same size monohull. Conversly a Hobie cat is capable of generating very high righting moments (for a 16ft boat) with trapezes etc. much higher then a comparable monohull.

God that rambling was confusing!! Bottom line: a Hobie Cat rig without spreaders may not be suitable for a narrow shroud base that a small monohull may have. The tube is probably ok, but you may have to add some spreaders if the shroud angle at the extrusion is getting much less then the 10-12 degrees or so. If the angles get too tight the rig gets unstable and is a real pain to keep tuned..

If all that is as confusing as it sounds, just go for it!! You said you are a good swimmer and the intercoastal isn't all that wide. Have a good time building and see what works and what doesn't.

I certainly agree that Eric is a great resource. He has certainly been helpful around here and he is in your back yard.

[MattBentti]

Dont worry about rambling, your all making good sense.

Guy, i Agree, i am concerned about beam/daggerboard/centerboard vs mast hight & sail area stability issues

at the moment i'm thinking of many c-scow/y flyer/ flying dutchman designs fitted to suit this plan

coupld new questions..

How would i go about figuring out what size center/daggerboard i'm going to need, and what beam

At what point do i start losing out when the LOA rises

What type of rudder should i persue

I belive a daggerboard is the easiest simplist way to go at first, what do you think?

I'm thinking of a modern simple y flyer esque, hard chine, vert transom (easy) (would transom extension aid in any thing?)

[frosh]

Matt, with respect, it would be a mistake to expect guys on this forum to give you more than general ideas about your new monohull to be built. Remember that you agreed that talking to Eric Sponberg for design details was the way to go. Therefore asking very specific questions on vitals such as hull beam, centreboard configuration and position should be posed to the qualified expert who is helping you with the design.
Details such transom rake etc. are minor compared to matching rig to hull size and shape. We would all enjoy designing your boat for you Matt, but realistically you will need to spend quite a bit of money by the time the project is finished. You do not want to risk an expensive flop, do you?
What you need to do however, is decide some basics such as how many crew, where will you be sailing, what are the usual wind and water conditions, do you intend to use trapezes? etc. :)

[MattBentti]

I'm not asking anybody to design anything for me Frosh, its all a constructive text based collaboration, whats so bad about talking about something were all interested in, and taking anyone who's interesteds ideas and putting them to thought?


Yeah, i've been waiting on a reply from Eric, i suppose its time to write another email.

[frosh]

Matt, nothing bad about talking about it; but you should have let me know that all you were wanting to do is have a discussion. :cool:

[MattBentti]

I spoke to eric, and the prices are as you guys said, i'm unsure where i'm going to go from here.

[messabout]

Matt;
You would be well advised to examine your motives as objectively as you can. You want to build a boat or you want to go sailing. If you want to go sailing before the summer is over then there is a simple best option. Buy a boat that someone else does not need. There are a lot of them out there. Just for giggles I went to the Y-Flyer web site. There are a number of them that can be had for less than the cost of materials for your build project. That is not the only class that has plenty for sale. Just for fun investigate the Fireball class. It is scowlike and goes pretty well for a flat paneled boat. Maybe not as big as you'd like though. If you were on the west coast you could look at Geary 18's. Theyre flatties that work very well. Lots of other possibilities for scooping up a used boat that will get you sailing sooner rather than later and you'll save some money in the process. Several years ago I bought a 20 foot Melges scow for $500 fully equiped. Later, I bought a Thistle for $75. Both were restored for very little money and within a reasonable time frame that did not even approach the build time for a new boat. Check out some clubs like Sarasota Sailing Squadron or Davis Island Yacht club. There always seems to be a bunch of boats for sale, many of them priced right.

If you are compelled to build a boat, it is best to start with an open mind when selecting a type that you want or think you want. Abandon the H16 rig temporarily because that is a serious determinant for the kind of boat you'll have to build. That rig is powerful and you already have it but it is not the greatest thing since sliced bread. For one thing it is a bear to erect, especially single handed. You can have a very fast boat without having to go as miserably high as that thing. A turbo 14 rig would be more sensible and easier to adapt to miscellaneous boats. For even more convenience, You could split the rig like a schooner. Bolger has a two masted boat he calls Scooner (his spelling not mine)that will go like hell. That one may be bigger than you had in mind, around 24 feet I think. It is a fact that trailer boats are used in direct proportion to the amount of hassle involved in getting into and out of the water and rigging and unrigging. Thats one reason why Sunfish and Lasers are so numerous. Examine your priorities, pick one, and go for it.

Best of luck in your quest.

[frosh]

Hi Matt, got to agree 100% with messabout re his last posting. Do want to build the monohull very badly, (no pun intended), or just go sailing this season for a fairly low cost. I did bring this question up on my 20 April posting. Once you have decided this, the rest will follow. However the H16 rig is not particularly good for a mono as it is very top heavy and the mast does not have suitable flex characteristics that you will need for a mono. Also is it in good enough condition to deserve recycling? :)

[MattBentti]

I'm returning to the halifax sailing club of daytona beach FL for some h16-h18 and force/laser sailing, and hopefully get to crew on some offshore races!! :D :D :D


If you feel all this writing was in vain, i'm sorry you ever posted, My plans to construct were maybe a little misplaced, but i do have a true yearn to build. And your right, the 100$ annual to get back into the club, why didnt i think of that before..

Anyway, this was my first thread at boatdesign.net. I hope to be positive and constructive in the many more that follow.

[Seafarer24]

I'm not precisely sure why you're bent on putting a multi-hull rig on a monohull....

I can entirely agree about not fixing up some old POS Hobie 16, but you could make a nice trimaran with the H16 rig easily enough. It'll be lighter and faster than any monohull you come up with.

[MattBentti]

well that'll always be an option, but as i said im letting the idea go for now after rejoining my old sailing club, which has quite a few restoration projects that i can better put my time towards namely a 25' capri named tobasco with some damage from a pylon at a dock during a hurricane! should be fun.


after further reading and learning about other aspects, plug/mold composite construction has caught my eye, but anyway theres more than one way to skin a cat, peace guys.