It's a Seahorse!(Van De Stadt that is)... opinions please.

[hansp77]

Ok, this shall be brief.
Elsewhere here, I have detailed my recent buying process and consequent questions surrounding the repair of the cabin... blah blah.

What I say here is, that the yacht that I recently bought, that the clueless guy I bought it from told me was a "Harrod" designed boat, is actually a 30ft marine ply Van De Stadt Seahorse. Details are in my other thread, so if you want read that, and see pics.

I love this boat regardless, but, if anyone knows anything about this design, good bad ugly or interseting, then please share your opinion.
Also, does anyone know of any sort of community of owners or anything interesting regarding this?
Hans.

[SeaSpark]

Hans,

Your boat has real pedigree. The first in this line of designs was Valk (Falcon) one of the first plywood sailing boats, still a popular class in holland.

Later followed Zeevalk (Seafalcon) a very succesfull offshore racing yacht extremely light displacement for its time, and Zeeslang (Seasnake) a very slender yacht, more Sea(animalname) van de Stadt designs exist.

[hansp77]

Thanks for the info SeaSpark.
That is great to know.
Is that blak and whit picture a Seahorse? It looks like one.

All the old guys aroung the marina and the boat show seemed to love the boat too.
Now it is early in the morning, and we are off to work on her (Altair), fix up the seals on her deck and cabin and repaint.
When we are done I will post some photos.
Hans.

[SeaSpark]

The boat in black and white is a Zeevalk(Seafalcon), Seahorse would translate as Zeepaard in dutch.

Some articles on van de Stadt

www.rlyachts.net/statushistory1.pdf
www.rlyachts.net/statushistory2.pdf
www.rlyachts.net/statushistory3.pdf
www.rlyachts.net/statushistory4.pdf

Link to book on E.G. van de Stadt and his designs:

http://www.stadtdesign.com/English/book.htm

No van de Stadt relative is working for Van de Stadt design anymore.
A relative founded Satellite Yacht Design now part of B&S Yacht Design
http://www.yacht-design.nl (sorry for this complicated story).

Strangely i cannot find anything on the Seahorse design. Most of his boats are named after birds. I think i know someone who owns the book from the link above. I says all his designs are listed in there so it should be conclusive.

[SeaSpark]

Looking at the pictures you posted before, http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showpost.php?p=81729&postcount=6

In the interior pictures i can see a very van de Stadt like construction. Not very sure about the cabin. vd Stadt sold many drawings for home builders(reason for her beeing in australia?) perhaps someone altered the cabin design to his own needs. Probably to create more room, something you benefit from at this moment so don't worry. It's a beauty!

One thing to keep in mind: This boat was never designed to take heavy loads so keep her light, and she will fly. Load her full of stuff, you have a bigger chance of breaking something.

[hansp77]

Thanks again SeaSpark.
It is all very interesting. It is true, it does seem to be hard to find any info on the seahorse. Today I found out that the dried out one at the marina is actually a "Dogger" apparantly very similar to mine, but with a cast iron keel instead of lead.
I think that my cabin might be set more for racing, with the low profile.
the guy opposite us with another seahorse has a higher cabin with a full 6ft head room.
I have just been working away all day, doing what I swore I would not do. Pulling out wood....
If you want to follow, then details shall be on the other thread, probably with a few questions too.
Thanks, Hans.

[hansp77]

Hey SeaSpark,
Thanks again for your input. (and no offence on the whole pirate thing- Ahhhrrright?)
My continuing search for info on the Seahorse design, has still come up with nothing.
I have since learned that she actually 28 ft in length, the confusion being that she has been raced in the 30 ft class (and sold to me as 30ft). It would never hurt to take a tape measure to these things.
As I will soon be getting her orriginal paper plans from the old owner, hopefully these will shed some more light on the issue.

As far as Van De Stadt's in Australia, there seems to be a fare few around. I am pretty sure Charlie Herrod who built the boat, was a proffessional boat builder.
In this marina alone, there is another Seahorse (like I said with much higher cabin, a Dogger (virtually identical but with a cast iron keel) right next to us in the yards, and another smaller unknown model out in the water. While my boat bears the sail number 7 (SM7- that we have to give up because we are not members) the boat that owns the even more saught after sail number 1(SM1) is apparantly another seahorse that has ended its days rotting in a paddock somewhere, only to take this number to the grave with it (the old owner will not sell the number).

Did you happen to have a chance to glance through your freinds book?
I would be very interested in any other info you might have.

Thanks again.
Hans.

[SeaSpark]

Have not seen the book yet, will let you know if i have, perhaps i'm going to buy it.

If the owner still has the original plans you are a lucky man.
In the new pictures you posted the underwater shape looks great!

It's very hard to offend me with an opinion,
good luck with your project,

[hansp77]

Hey SeaSpark,
Just thought I'd tell you,
I got the plans from the old owner today.
They are definately the originals, on tracing paper, all rolled up in a poster tube, 12 of 12 big pages.
Very beautifull and amazingly detailed (these being the first and only such plans I have ever seen.)
Not sure quite what to do with them nor how to use them, but I have hardly even explored them yet (Just got home after another 13 hour day in the wind).
I suppose I could use them for the timber and ply that I am replacing. Though I don't know how yet.

Currently the job has just gotten bigger every day.
Today was a pretty big turning point though. Everything has been uncovered now, Nearly everything needed to be removed removed, and a definate line has been drawn as to where the job will stop.
Probably after a day or two more prep, (and waiting out the rain that is forcast for the next three days) it will be time to start reconstructing rather than deconstructing.
Hopefully my sanity and health will start to repair along the same lines.
Can't wait.
Hans.

[SeaSpark]

The friend i mentioned does not have the book, 80 usd is a bit to much for a book that does not contain really new information for me.

We have libraries in Holland and some of them have the publication. A system exists to order books from the libraries but for some kind of reason not all these systems are the same... Good news, the book does contain a cd-rom i hope the late E.G. does not mind shareing some of the information on it.

I'll keep you informed

[hansp77]

Thanks SeaSpark,
I am sure the late E.G. wouldn't mind a little sharing of info.. particularly if it was in the best interests of one of his little girls..
Just to let you know, I have let go of the whole stress and time frame of the restoration. I have come to accept that it is going to take much longer than I anticipated, mainly due to the fact that my university workload has subbmerged me to my eyeballs once again, and this will involve of course more money. But, as I got the boat at the right price, and as I want to do the job right, this is reasonable.

After the days of chipping and scraping paint off the entire deck and cabin, It has been decided and agreed upon (by those that are advising me) to replace the whole back 2/3rd of the deck. By no means does all the wood need it, but rather than patching here and there, and filling this and that, and treating and poisening, it seems best to have a fresh start.
Next year or the one after when she is slipped again, I will probably aim to do the forward 1/3 of the deck, and maybe even build a new cabin.. It will be time by then to do some work on the mast, so removing the stays will make the remaining deck job easier.

Rain again now, and a rather nasty paper due tomorrow, but tuesday, the work is on again. The fixing has begun, rather than the deconstruction. Timber stripped ready for epoxy and laquer, solid brass fittings, cleats, cabin air hole thingies have been cut back and polished and buffed to perfection by my girlfriends father. I have cut out and replaced a small and only soft spot that the slipping helped me find under the waterline on the stern.
Slowly and surely she is coming along.
And to think, I haven't even been sailing in her yet. Just a quick 5 minute motor from her pen round to the crane that lifted her out.

P.S. I will try to track down that book here as well.

Hans.

[malish]

We sailed one named 'Wizz' as a family cruising (and very successful local racing) boat on the south coast of England between 1963 and 1968. The design was sponsored by a UK sailing magazine 'Yachting World' in the early 1960's as a D.I.Y. design though ours was professionally built. Did a lot of cruising in the English Channel, south coast of England, Normandy and Brittanny in all sorts of weather and conditions. Good sea boat, slammed a bit going to windward in big seas but had no real vices. I seem to remember that the floors seemed a bit light for the relatively heavy and deep fin keel, and we had minor keelbolt problems. The boat was sold in 1968, refastened and I came across it again in Antigua in the Caribbean in 1986. On that occasion I was running a Swan 65, recognised the boat talked to the 'new' owners and raced on it with them on a wednesday evening race. The boat was still surprisingly fast heading much bigger and very much more expensive boats downwind in a breeze, but losing out on the last windward leg due to tired old sails and a big sea. Fine boat. you'll have a great time with it when you complete the project.

[hansp77]

Thank you for the information Malish, regarding this design it is certainly hard to come by.

The original plans that I got with my boat have the heading "yachting world Build it yourself Van De Stadt Seahorse"
So this matches your story, and seems to answer the source of these plans.
However like yours , mine was built professionally too.

My keel bolts seem pretty good.
I am not too sure of their age or what they are made from.
All of the original metal that was used in the boat was monel, and then a few bits from obvious later jobs of copper and brass.
Apparantly there were no shortcuts taken, ie, that whatever the plans asked for, this or better was used.
So if they are original, then I hope they are monel, and if not original then I guess they must be stainless steel, as there is no visable rust on them.
I haven't yet checked the tension on them.
Maybe next year.

If there is any other info or hints/tips that you might have, then if you have the time, please pass them on. You are the first previous owner that I have come across.

Thanks again, Hans.

[Milan]

I have the book and CD with designs list and study plans, (included with a book). Yachting world Sea horse is design number 67.

[hansp77]

Wow, thanks Milan,
I have been thinking about that book a lot.
I already have the full plans, so the study plans are not really what I need,
However,
is there any writing about the actual design?
Maybe a little chapter, paragraph or anything?

Thanks, Hans.

[Milan]

There isn't any specific text in the book about Sea Horse unfortunately. She is typical of the plywood hard chine line Van de Stadt designs from the period. All of them are light, fast boats. Some, as Sea snake and Sea falcon are quite extreme, lean, performance designs. Here is the design that I like a lot, Sea snake, grand father of the modern sport boats.

Milan

[hansp77]

Thank you Milan,
You have probably saved me a fair bit of money as now I have little reason to buy the book.
Of course later on it would definatly be a nice book to have, but for now the need has passed.
That Sea Snake looks nice.
What year was that?

p.s. from the Seahorse plans you have posted (and the ones I have), mine is a bit different,
first off it has a lead keel (meaning that if follows the slimmer profile of the deadwood- not seen on your plans),
also the inner cabin layout is fairly different- the galley is in the same spot, but the head is on the same side but up towards the bow past the mast instead of in the center.
And the removable navigation table is more of a nonremovable navigation shelf (opposite the head).

p.s.

She is a lovely boat, after restoring her (almost finished) we finally got to sail her last week to her new home, a swing mooring.
Under main only she perfectly steered herself through the 15 knots and 2 meter waves. She often seemed to do a better job on her own than when I tried to help her.;)
Since then we haven't even seen her,
after three months full time restoration, through the winter rain and winds, my partner desperatly needed a break. Also our inflatable that we bought instantly sprung a leak upon the first use, so now with a new one (much better- sevylor HF 360) in hand, we will probably see her again this weekend.

Thanks again,
Hans.

[Milan]

...I have little reason to buy the book....

If you are interested only in the Sea horse, there is no need to by that book. But book is interesting for people with general interest in the Yacht design. Price is not very high when you consider that with a book comes a CD with study plans drawings for hundreds of boats.

...That Sea Snake looks nice.
What year was that?...

Sea Snake was designed in 1956. She had many original ideas, for example one option was totally transparent cabin from perspex on the aluminum profiles frame and inside steering for offshore sailing in rough conditions. E. G. van de Stadt was very pleased with her and considered her his favorite design. She is still very fast boat even by modern standards and in her time was a real rocket, sailing circles around competition.

Milan

[hansp77]

I am pretty much only interested in the Seahorse as it is the boat that I have.
Of course, I would like the book for an adition to the bookshelf, and when I have a bit of extra money (???) I just may get it.
Thanks again.
Hans.

[roseandpaul]

The boat in black and white is a Zeevalk(Seafalcon), Seahorse would translate as Zeepaard in dutch.

Some articles on van de Stadt

www.rlyachts.net/statushistory1.pdf
www.rlyachts.net/statushistory2.pdf
www.rlyachts.net/statushistory3.pdf
www.rlyachts.net/statushistory4.pdf

Link to book on E.G. van de Stadt and his designs:

http://www.stadtdesign.com/English/book.htm

No van de Stadt relative is working for Van de Stadt design anymore.
A relative founded Satellite Yacht Design now part of B&S Yacht Design
http://www.yacht-design.nl (sorry for this complicated story).

Strangely i cannot find anything on the Seahorse design. Most of his boats are named after birds. I think i know someone who owns the book from the link above. I says all his designs are listed in there so it should be conclusive.


Hi SeaSpark,

Can you please try to find out if the Van de Stadt book has any info on the Dogger and Super Dogger?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Regards,

Rose and Paul (and Minx II)