Noah's ark

[Guillermo]

Well, somebody is building the thing:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4853890.stm

From Mail & Guardian online:

Johan Huibers, from Schagen in the province of North Holland, north of Amsterdam, conceived the idea 13 years ago.

When complete, the ark will be 70m long, 9,5m wide and 12,9m high. It is being constructed in a shed at one of Huibers's businesses.
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Huibers said he bought about 1 200 pine trees to complete the project. All the work is being done on the premises.
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Huibers wants to set up a foundation to run the ark and plans to use the funds raised to build a full-scale version in a couple of years.
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"But then in all its glory: 150m long, 25m wide and 15m high. Precisely as it is written in Genesis," he said, referring to the first book of the Bible.

[MikeJohns]

[ "This will speak very much to children, because it will give them something tangible to see that Noah's Ark really existed," Mr Huibers told the Associated Press news agency. ]

Not sure about the logic in that argument, but we need to target the children.......!

It is a pity so much money goes into such projects which prove nothing and are really just a bit of religious tittilation.

Having been involved in one analysis of the theoretical full sized Ark I can say that the design suffers from inherrant weakness in shear strength, all engineering analysis has shown that it would fall apart at sea. A Korean Christian engineering group is quoted by the fundamentalists as supposedly managing to calculate that it could be built using metal strapping, fasteners and some metal framing. Their calculations were never seen by anyone else.

The Ark would of course be just another biblical miracle the project itself would have been on the scale of the pyramids with the materials logistics and the sheer scale of construction, then there's the whole field of biological science to completely disagree with.....

Pity we cant just leave it as an educative allegorical tale and use the money where it would really count. Religious fundamentalism has a nasty taste these days.

[longliner45]

bumble bees are not supposed to be able to fly either.

[Guillermo]

...I can say that the design suffers from inherrant weakness in shear strength, all engineering analysis has shown that it would fall apart at sea....
That's exactly my concern. I've seen some news in the TV about this Ark and by what I could realize by the inside views, it looked more like a wharehouse than a ship. I'm wandering if proper structure calculations have been done in this case, precisely because of the safety of children. Will Dutch authorities allow this ark to go to water and sail, even in the canals? Maybe some of our Dutch friends in these forums knows...

[SeaSpark]

Its just a wooden structure on a steel barge. As far as i know the owner has no intentions to cross open water.

[longliner45]

dont deny or doubt your maker.If god said it will float ,,,,,it will float. (fold under a little pressure gilly ?)

[Guillermo]

Its just a wooden structure on a steel barge...
Thanks. Now I know what we are talking about.

[MikeJohns]

bumble bees are not supposed to be able to fly either.

A classic blue; under classic hydrodynamics the theory was that the bumble bee wings couldn't generate enough lift given their size. Modern high speed film showed that the movement was quite different to that supposed and that they could generate enough lift after all. That urban myth was killed off long ago but still seems to have credence in some circles.

Guillermo
Surely it must meet ISO rules if it's open to the public as a paying venture?

[yipster]

http://www.worldwideflood.com/general/ark_history.htm
plus some unorthodocs ideas on arks shape and CB

[Guillermo]

...Surely it must meet ISO rules if it's open to the public as a paying venture?
I do not know how it is in Holland.
In Spain a vessel like this should have the consideration of a passengers' ship, so to be built accordingly to some Classification Society rules and fullfill the SOLAS requirements, as well as some other national norms. As wood is not contemplated as a building material for this size of vessel, he was going to have a real headache to get the design and construction approved. Most probably in Holland happens something similar and so that's why he had to build an ark's looking like superstructure over an existing steel barge.

[Windvang]

I do not know how it is in Holland.
In Spain a vessel like this should have the consideration of a passengers' ship, so to be built accordingly to some Classification Society rules and fullfill the SOLAS requirements, as well as some other national norms. As wood is not contemplated as a building material for this size of vessel, he was going to have a real headache to get the design and construction approved. Most probably in Holland happens something similar and so that's why he had to build an ark's looking like superstructure over an existing steel barge.

Yes, marine safety standards are pretty much similar troughout Europe. We have some big wooden replica's sailing with passengers though, so it must be possible somehow. These boats once made it around Cape Horn and back so I don't see construction problems. Don't know how they meet fire regulations though.

Picture of trader Batavia, the original used to bring spices from Indonesia to Holland. (And rob some Spanish gold on the way :p)

[Guillermo]

... Don't know how they meet fire regulations though.
I've involved in the recovery and reconstruction of a 30 m long Watersupply steam wooden vessel from 1920. The owner is now carring passengers in short trips in the Galician Rías. To comply with SOLAS we had to negotiate with the Spansh administration redundant firefighting systems. Complicated, but finally we came to an acceptable agreement.
You can see her here: http://www.hidria.net/

[jam007]

I´m just wondering about the life rafts for elephants

[Gregg]

That urban myth was killed off long ago but still seems to have credence in some circles.

Not according to recent programming on The Discovery Channel.

[DanishBagger]

Is it just me, but that thing isn't even scaled down properly!? Look at those dimension!

[MikeJohns]

Not according to recent programming on The Discovery Channel.

I can't comment as I did not see it but television info-tainment is not the most reliable source of knowlede. Send them an email and tell em that they are wrong!

This is actually interesting as a failure of one of our related disciplines Hydrodynamics.

An aero-hydrodynamicist tried to analyze the aerodynamics of the bumblebee his assumptions of beat frequency , airspeed, foil attack angle imposition of Kutta condition and max sustained power plant output. The analysis showed a horrific drag figure and a lift figure too low to support the beast. The wings appeared largely stalled . As a lark he reported his findings in a science paper presentation inviting further input.

The Christian fundamentalist movement got hold of this and pushed it for all it was worth as an example of the failing of Biological science which it had nothing to do with .

Shortly afterwards with the generated interest the true flight was analyzed the model adjusted and the musculature of the bee studied. The model was revised and Lo….Bumble bees can fly according to aerodynamic theory. Problem is that the media don’t make a big issue of such corrections. So the old report became an Urban myth.

So you see this sort of crap all the time:
[And then there's the case of the bumblebee. According to the greatest minds of science, it cannot fly. Its wings aren't big enough. Aerodynamics says it is impossible. The biggest computers in the world all come to the same conclusion, it can't fly. But what does the bumblebee do? It ignores the scientists, the skeptics, the computers... and it just goes ahead and flies...................]


Amen

[hansp77]

Not having the "religion in me"
but also having studied a bit about such things as the controversies, contradictions and problems involved in any 'literal' interpretation of the first books of the bible,
I find this story rather amusing.
I wonder what this massive effort hopes to do, (aside from make the kiddies giggle and smile as they are conditioned- a spoon full of sugar?) other than to demonstrate the sheer impossibility of the story of Noah?

Maybe what is actually going on here is cospiracy by fundamentalist aethiests who are posing as christians, in order to build this great ship for a catestrophic sinking and failure not only of the ark- but the whole myth...

[Gregg]

I will have much more "faith" in our human abilities once we can scientifically come up with accurate and functioning models of not only the bumblebee, but how about a single human cell. Not some copy of a cell by "growing", but physically made from parts collected the world over. I suppose we can't do that yet, cuz we can't even find all the parts to dna strands. So, I suppose until we as humans can do that, well, I guess it's a real long shot to even guess the pathways to the "true" gnome. Egad...lots to do!
I suppose all of these questions will be answered once I have my 100 foot daysailor moved to the sea. I suppose I should at least get the last remaining tidbits designed first though..."Lots to Do".