Idiot posts cluttering up the forum

[tansails]

I have been learning for several years just by reading the threads on this forum. There have been very knowledgable people discussing and solving problems of great interest

It seems sad that lately so many of the posts are now idiot posts about stupid things with nothing to do with boat design.

I see many good threads clutered up with banaal postings by some people who seem to be trying to get the highest posting scrore without saying anything constructive at all.

I think they are nothing more than graffiti sprayers. I look at nearly 1000 posts from one individual and find almost complete drivel.

To those people who know full well who they are I say please stop your selfish behaviour.

M Bailey

[longliner45]

yea man Im with you, it seems like too much bullshit and not enough facts. Im readey to jump off myself . when a 12 yr old girl gets bull from seniors it makes me wonder were the real men are. these guys wouldent last a few minutes at the dock , they can justify it by saying (its the world ,and they will hear it anyway) but ill bet they would not appriaciate it if it was there kidds I have complaind to th moderator myself ,,,,to no avail, Im done......longliner

[longliner45]

there is other sites that dont put up with this crap ,,,see you there,

[antonfourie]

What are those sites then ?

[kach22i]

First off, I'd like the moderator if there is one, to move this thread where it belongs, in the Open Discussion area. I'd just hate to see anyone become a hypocrite, not saying you are.

when a 12 yr old girl gets bull from seniors

That was in the Open Discussion section, it was goofy, it also looked to be mutual longliner45. It's hard to read through and tell to be sure. I'll say it's not a mind set I can follow and leave it at that. It is disappointing at times to click on a thread and see it's strayed way off topic - I'll agree.


To those people who know full well who they are I say please stop your selfish behaviour.

If you have a problem with a person or apparent "click group" tansails, may I suggest sending them an e-mail or PM before making a public outcry. Perhaps talking it over with the moderator, which I don't know how to get a hold of myself would be constructive.

I don't mind an occasional joke once in a while, but I do have problems following some of the non-sense tossed about. I am however rarely offended by it.

[JonathanCole]

Jeff is the moderator. You can contact him here:
http://boatdesign.net/forums/member.php?u=4

[safewalrus]

Tansails

Anyone who puts his location as 'earth' and then whinges in the wrong section (open discussion is the place for this) is probably as bad if not worse than the people he's whinging about - just because he didn't get any information from it doesn't mean others didn't1 Who's selfish now!

Please move to the correct forum area and start again!

from the man who's got nearly a thousand posts but .....

[Chris Ostlind]

Could the same be said for a dude who subtitles himself as Ancient Mariner?

From that nomencalture, it would seem that you are seriously out of balance in this modern world.

The original question has merit and is totally applicable to this, or any other, list at this site. What's the purpose and what is it we are attempting to accomplish?

If we get that right, the rest will follow in its own proper fashion.

Chris

[safewalrus]

Could the same be said for a dude who subtitles himself as Ancient Mariner?

From that nomencalture, it would seem that you are seriously out of balance in this modern world.

The original question has merit and is totally applicable to this, or any other, list at this site. What's the purpose and what is it we are attempting to accomplish?

If we get that right, the rest will follow in its own proper fashion.

Chris

Two 'rr's in my marriner (west country accent see), but Chris are you asking the meaning of life, ah! if only !!!

[Jeff]

Perhaps talking it over with the moderator, which I don't know how to get a hold of myself would be constructive.
Everyone is always welcome to send me a PM about any threads or posts they feel need to be moderated, or general forum trends or suggestions. I very much appreciate forum members sharing their thoughts.

The easiest way to report a bad post or thread is to click on the small http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/images/buttons/report.gif ("!") icon that appears with each post. All reported posts/threads will always be looked into.

[tansails]

Tansails

Anyone who puts his location as 'earth' and then whinges in the wrong section (open discussion is the place for this) is probably as bad if not worse than the people he's whinging about - just because he didn't get any information from it doesn't mean others didn't1 Who's selfish now!

Please move to the correct forum area and start again!

from the man who's got nearly a thousand posts but .....


I put this post in the design forum because it related to the death of that forum through the stupid bullying, and mindless posts from people who seem to have no input whatsoever into the subject.

For example Mr Walrus you are a prime example although I did not mention you.

If I say I am an American then this fool will say something rude. If I say I am living in Florida but of Spanish Mother but an American father you will understand why I say I am not nationalistic and put simply "Earth". You struggle to find something rude to say. It is easy to be a rude foul person when you are only a Word with no face.

You post excessively on the design forum , hundreds of posts yet nothing on design......... why is this ?
Why do you not post all your graffiti on the open discussion ?

I wish Jeff would delete all your posts and you could start anew and try and contribute something of use . Not just posting for the sake of it.

There are others also who fit in this same category. Other sites are strictly moderated to stop this happening. But there goes the freedom and lots of work for the moderators each night....

All because of very selfish behaviour.

If you are not building or designing or involved in those then go away please.

M Bailey

[longliner45]

we are all humans, we are all from earth, we all make mistakes. lets not get personal , lets not attack, we can sort it out amoughts ourselfs, I make mistakes , like typing while im drunk. but I like all you guys, hey were sailors we need walrus we need tansails we need both ends of the spectrum ive learned from walruss ive learned from tansails what ive learned im keepen, lets just keep it cool around the kids ,,,,love ya all longliner

[Ari]

I love reading what Walrus write in..not that highly technical to a level that I don't understand at all..I'am not Naval Architect..or aerospace engineer..just somebody who love the sea/water..he add in some colours..maybe he is not or never become a lecturer at any university..if anybody can sieve through his comments ..you 'll see the points clearly. Of course there is certain thread that I couldn't be bothered to read..like building a boat at 12 years old..Iam very suspicious with that tread..I believe somebody started it just for the fun of it..maybe I'am wrong.

[JonathanCole]

One man's idiocy is another's entertainment. Prohibiting stupidity is simply a recipe for constant strife. However, I think that people should refrain from making insulting or personally demeaning comments to other participants. Why? Because it is rude. If you want to have only the thick skinned participating then you may end up with very little in the way of creative intelligence or mentoring others just for the good of it. I already know of at least 2 very knowledgable members who have quit this forum due to the insulting comments made by others. Not a good trend<img>

BoatDesign.net should not be a contest for egotistical blowhards to see who can have the most posts. It should be an educational forum where people share knowledge, experiences and project ideas.

[Willallison]

We are all guests here - thanks to the tireless and often thankless efforts of Jeff.
It is he - and he alone - who has the right to decide who should come, who should go, and what is or isn't appropriate conversation. But we should all bear in mind that without him, we have nothing.
This is his 'house' treat it - and his other 'guests' - as you would your own...


Now - as I've often said in other, similar, threads - can you all shut up and get back to talking about BOATS !

[Ari]

Willallison your motion seconded.Thank you Jeff.

[trouty]

Sheesh I thought for a minute he was talking about me! :rolleyes:

Re Almost a thousand posts!

Posts: 445

Phew - thats a relief, I reckon theres only room for one idiot around here!:p

I have met the enemy, and he is us! ;)

Cheers!

[safewalrus]

Ari thanks for your comments mate, we're not all budding genius's who want to talk maths all day! I believe that a lot of people need to be reminded where the ground is and keep thier feet on it!

I too have my doubts about the boat building at 12 forum, I even queried it! at one stage. I still do I get my sarcastic streak posibly due to a military career (you get like that after suffering fools) also an even longer career at sea tens to make me a little leery of a lot of comments until the writer proves he's a proffessional seafarer (or has been!) finally as a Health and Safety Advisor I know the world is full of idiots!

Mr Tanbark or whatever he's calling himself (whats in a name?) seems to be the very person that he's in the process of slagging off - I'd like to give an apolligy but really I don't give a damn (as you see I can't even spell it). I've met some great guys through this forum - Bergalia, Ari, Longliner, Bolton, Welly, Trouty even Gilly spring to mind immediately (there are many others sorry for not mentioning you)but the time has come to move on! been great fella's, may look in occasionally. Thanks go especially to Jeff for tolerating me, cheers!:rolleyes: :p :D

[tansails]

Why pick a boat design forum to be the clown in? The Forum has changed very much since the idiot posters appeared, In the past there was only one Mr Herron but he is a boat builder and has much to offer.

In the case of the "entertainers" we do not need them if they are rude people who often know nothing about the forum subject.

You are rude to people enquiring about design and building like Mr westergard who gave up in disgust, you are rude to people because they are American.

Can you give but one example where you actually contributed to a design thread with something to say rather than a idiot post ?

You and others could still remain "Characters" in the forum but you could post less and be more thoughtfull of wrecking otherwise good threads for a simple posting score count.

You say
[.....Mr Tanbark or whatever he's calling himself (whats in a name?) seems to be the very person that he's in the process of slagging off....]

Please explain how is it that my concerns for the forum make me just like you ?
I am not making an idiot post here just lamenting that the forum is cluttered.

[Skippy]

Sheesh I thought for a minute he was talking about me! :rolleyes:

He was. :)

[tonydignity]

I am not quite sure if I am following this thread entirely, it seems that a 12 yr old has an imaginative idea,and is that where all boat design begins !!!.Unless I am wrong every succesful design must begin with a purpose?,then comes the boring yet ultimately fulfilling bit of taking a cencept and turning it into reality.
There seems nothing inapropriate with our 12 yr old's idea's,in fact It has set many minds to the task including my own addled grey matter.
As to setting out our own political stall on a forum about boats,It has always been those who shout loudest ?. Most men have time to encourage the young. They are the arrows of the future,The more supple the bow ,the further the arrow will fly.
Its for each to decide, will you be a bowman,or a target.

[Bergalia]

Tanbark, I believe, Walrus old chum, is a rather bitter and noxious substance used in the treatment of rotting hides. Perhaps he mistook this forum for the 'Leatherwear Weekly...' :)

[kach22i]

Where is Wellydeckhand when you need him, this thread is getting too serious.;)

[marshmat]

We are all guests here - thanks to the tireless and often thankless efforts of Jeff.
It is he - and he alone - who has the right to decide who should come, who should go, and what is or isn't appropriate conversation. But we should all bear in mind that without him, we have nothing.
This is his 'house' treat it - and his other 'guests' - as you would your own...

Good sentiments. I agree.

Now - as I've often said in other, similar, threads - can you all shut up and get back to talking about BOATS !
I second that motion!

[boltonprofiles]

Too serious for me, but I will speak to you anytime Walrus.....................

[Bergalia]

Too serious for me, but I will speak to you anytime Walrus.....................

Grief Paul, you've really reached the bottom of the barrel...:D :D :D

[Wellydeckhand]

Dear Forum expert,

I called your all expert because u all design dream ship and maybe boat that our part of the world never intended to sail or ride....... We understand the marvel of human enginuity and lust for greater thing. Enstien is stupid till he was 16, almost did not survive as fellow scientist, so if he live in our modern age forum world, he should be a55 kicked back to jerusalem because he did not contribute earlier?

Come on, we as individual would like to give something to the forum but some of us are limited with what the guys scrolling are lookin.......

As for myself, i do draw but on paper not on fancy program, that because i do not have the previliges of studying in a modern boat design school...... think of it there is not yet one well acknowlegded in Indonesia........

Yes, likem your post on NIRWANA did make me high and wanted to design a perfect floating object....... but too young to be posted.

We all come here in a common cause, not forced or restricted to the boundries of design........ some good at floating the ship like sailor, some good at drawing on paper like 8knots, some know scientific knowhow, some form government bodies watching and learning without posting their private opinions........ Yes, we may sound crab but this forum present a new age babilion for us in Asia, We do not contempt to be enemies of copycat of your design but would someday contribute as equal peer in this forum.

Walrus is cute, but his experience in debate could spark some flashback that trigger some to challange their way of thinking.

Yes , we grow old one day and this forum does not mean anything anymore, when we go kickin the bucket at least we are proud we did some design and float something in the proses. This forum would outlast some of us, and we could make it more International by slowly contributing it.

To some I say sorry because of advancement your all may not want to see what other side of the world become better, design is a weird thing, it grows on everybody, it derive from our culture background and way of livin. We a small part of the forum may not be that smart, but u need the stupid people to prove u are clever and right.

Thanks for reading my junk mail with no content again.

I reply to this forum 2 weeks late because my office computer cant access to this forum anymore....... Wonder why....... but u all are great but fun...... like great seaman........... sometime...:)

The world are watchin stay cool ok.......

Wellythe rubbishGuy

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[tonydignity]

Thank you kind friend, for your most interesting letter.It brought back memories of my own time in Borneo 1963 to 1965.
I was stationed in Sarawak,and operated on foot from the drop off point to go in to the jungle from semangang,or up the rivers to the Eban,and Dyak Longhouses by 17ft Raider assualt craft.and lived much of the time when not on patrol in Kuching.
I had my very first marine ply ski boat built there and when possible, I would sail down to Santubong to the sea.
I went out to Turtle island many times to dive on the reef,and although it was a time of conflict,I have intensely happy memories of my time in Borneo.
After it was all over I managed to get a helicopter to pick up the boat and set it on the Commando Carrier HMS Bulwark ,who very kindly delivered it to Singapore,where i used it from the Ong Say Chor Boatel ?.untill I got shot in the riots of 65/66 .
I tell you this story because it was a time when I fell in love with the rivers ,the sea ,with boats and ultimately boat building.all in your vibrant wild and beautiful island of Borneo.
Thank you again for your letter.

[Guillermo]

Well, it seems that lately the idiot posts are concentrating exactly where they should have always been in these forums....: Community Forum. A relief for the rest of them.
Cheers.

[RHough]

Please explain how is it that my concerns for the forum make me just like you ?
I am not making an idiot post here just lamenting that the forum is cluttered.

The radio and television is cluttered too. No one forces you to listen to or watch every channel.

If Howard Stern offends you, don't listen to him. If nekkid girls offend you, don't watch the Superbowl or the Playboy Channel. How tough is that?

Typical "American", too thin skinned to take some ribbing :) Too weak to ignore threads or posts that they don't want to read and rather than suck it up, they start a whole idiot thread (not just one idiot post) to complain about what they think is clutter. How self centred can you get?

Here's a hint ... Click on UserCP ... click on Buddy/Ignore List ...

Of course you should also make a point of telling the forum that you are going to ignore someone, after all they wouldn't know to have their feelings hurt if you don't tell them you are going to ignore them. There will be nothing even slightly ironic about cluttering the forum with a post to announce that someone has made your ignore list for cluttering up the forum. ;)

[Bergalia]

Friends, I have a grave suspicion that the last posting signed by Wellydeckhand is a fake. He has been replaced by someone behind that rubber mask. His alleged last posting was written with passion, understanding and with a deep vein of commonsense, and not the strange mutterings of the Wellydeckhand we have some to know and accept over the past several months. Jeff should investigate.

However, there is one clue that it might be the genuine article - his reference to Walrus being 'Cute'... :D :D

[MikeJohns]

Often posts are made without thought or knowledge of the subject. If you have a decent discussion going on a serious subject and suddenly 3 or 4 people (and always the same 3 or 4 people) start posting to each other with slapstick comedy it can be annoying to wade through the pages looking for the next follow-up post in the thread.

To set the ignore poster option would mean any decent input from these fellows would be missed too, and they have contributed intelligently in some threads.

Also remember when you post that the global search engines link to the thread titles and the forum is a reference for all.

There is room for humour in the posts and the forum would be dry indeed without it, but bear in mind that the 4 or 5 post mindless exchanges in the middle of a thread do tend to drag on.

[tansails]

Too weak to ignore threads or posts that they don't want to read and rather than suck it up, they start a whole idiot thread (not just one idiot post) to complain about what they think is clutter. How self centred can you get?
There will be nothing even slightly ironic about cluttering the forum with a post to announce that someone has made your ignore list for cluttering up the forum.

Your argument is specious. Your thought is poor.

I was not posting in the middle of someone elses thread saying thoughtless unrelated things for the sake of it.

I am genuinely concerned that the Forum is going downhill fast and that good worthhile contributors are going away beacause of the idiots that use the threads as a chat group.

Why cannot the posters be a little more thoughtfull and less ridiculous. There are good facilities for vulgar and boorish behaviour but they are not in the middle of a thread that they did not start and have no interest in.

They have turned people away with their selfish behaviour a New Zealander says Hello first time and Bergalia goes on intimating that they have sex with sheep ! Is this sensible ......? Then all the stupid drinking boasts ....Is this sensible ? It belongs not in these threads but in a chat room where it is not recorded for posterity.

Also consider this http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5804&page=6

Quote: Originally Posted by trouty
...Course 'Cactus Kate' showed up for all of 5 minutes....before the whiff of my testosterone got her all uppitty and she shot thru! ...

Not only Kate, but Leo Lazauskas too. Just see Kate's thread and you'll find him saying goodby. And it's a real pity as he was a really knowledgeable man who had posted most interesting contributions. I wrote him and he told me he was no longer interested in participating in a Forum were people were more concerned with their own bizarre personalities than in sharing useful information, after your most clever posts at that thread... Thanks a lot, Trouty.
__________________
Guillermo Gefaell


Anyone Just go back through the posts by the idiot posters and read what they have written, then think whether I am being cruel.

I have yet to hear an argument other than an insult from the idiot posters, as tpo why they think the idiot posting is good.

Please stop it, go away and find somewhere else. A private room in a chatgroup is a good place for you.

M B

[RHough]

Your argument is specious. Your thought is poor.



Electric forums are very similar to live forums. They are self policing. If what is allowed in a forum offends someone, what is the logical course of action? Accept the forum as it is (you have to assume it is the way it is because the members like it that way), or try to change it to suit your ideas?

If you don't like the conversation in the member's bar at the yacht club, are you going to whinge about it or join another club?

If posters get out of line, and break a rule of the forum it is up to the moderator or owner of the forum to control it. I'll have to assume that you are not the moderator or the owner, if you were there would be no reason for this thread (that had to be moved to the correct forum since it was started in the wrong place).

Every forum I've ever participated in has a self-appointed, self-righteous person that doesn't like the tone of some of the other posters and feels that the world should change to suit them. It is not like this is the only forum that discusses boat design. We all have choices. The moderator sets the standard.

If you are a guest in someones home, and find one of the other guests offensive what to you do? Do you address the other guests and chastise the "offenders"? do you whinge to the host about the other guests? Or do you leave?

Sheesh.

I agree we should all play nice. We should be civil. However when that doesn't happen, I know exactly what I can do about it. I know where the exit is.

[longliner45]

I was,,,,,,,,,,,,,,pissed because it was a young persons thread that got out of hand, had it been a regular thread ,,,,,,,,with adults I wouldnt have cared,ive read through tansails threads and you have critizieds others for not having any edifiying info to the threads. you sir have nothing to add!not from expiriance ,or a tecknical point .we have lost some vaulable members that ,,,,,, break up the monatomy, if you dont like it here,,,maybe you sould leave,,,,,,longliner

[Bergalia]

Guillermo. You were kind enough to express an interest in the progress of my 'floating coffin'. The project is now complete and afloat (and not yet sunk). Yet another 'Snafu' (all my vessels except one have been a Snafu - it's been a lucky name - this is the seventh I've built, all around the 30 - 40 foot mark.)
Snafu seven was something of an experiment - a personal challenge to use only (apart from the fastenings) salvaged materials. Even the power plant - a small Volvo Penta 3-cylinder - was acquired as three boxes of bits (bought from the owner of a recently foundered yacht). Main motive power is by my own version of a sprit sail (the canvas from three military tents ($5 Australian from the local Vincent De Paul charity shop.) Much timber, as I told you came from village hall floor boards, other pieces from the local tip and demolition yards. Metal work salavaged from the same yard and reworked (machining, welding etc) by me.
The odd looking 'cuddy' (I'm using it for fishing and lobster creeling) has a windscreen salvaged from a defunct Morris Mini (including windscreen wipers). Also from the same Mini, the starter motor and dynamo.
In brief, excluding my time (and I'm cheap) total cost for this 35 foot vessel was $700 Australian dollars. Maybe not pretty beyond the eye of the owner - but built to last.
Anyway, just thought I'd let you see the end result before I sign off. (Postal Idiot leaving the ship/forum). Take care. Yours aye, Max (bergalia)

[JonathanCole]

A few more thoughts about this subject. First of all, Tansail makes a good point, but maybe falls into the same trap that he is criticizing. I don't think it is really the humorous posts that are getting people to leave. It is the posts which are (intentionally or not) personal insults. For instance, calling people idiots. I don't think Bergalia should be castigated or driven from the forum for making a few off-color remarks. He is always friendly and mostly respectful of others. Just because people seem like idiots sometimes does not make them idiots. People have differents senses of humor. Chasing humor off the forum is definitely not desirable.

The problem, as demonstrated by this thread, is that no one likes to be attacked, belittled or insulted. The result is that they go away (which reduces the richness of the forum) or they escalate the attacks as you can see starting to happen here. It is built into us - "fight or flight". But we are also reasoning animals, so a third way is available. Let's treat each other with respect and good will. Maybe we can demonstrate sanity in an insane world!!

By the way Bergalia, nice boat for 700 clams!

[tonydignity]

Everyone to my mind in this group is unique,and some people shout louder for attention.
I personaly find much of the inputs most rewarding.and the priveledge of being allowed to express my views I am grateful for.
If my opinions are disagreed with it only adds to the richness of the process.I have the greatest respect for everyones opinion,and would not dream of calling someone an idiot.
Why ,!because it would be aggressive and disruptive.It was only last weekend on UK TV I saw a new internet directive which makes it legal to outlaw,all slanderous written content,and you can now find yourself the target of a lawsuit .
Im not saying anyone on this site would be so juvinile as to slap a writ on you for alleging they are "Quote "Idiots". What I am saying is it is now possible!.A word to the wise should I say.
So now may I humbly suggest we get back to the absorbing task of exchanging ideas and friendship . and by a vote of sanity outlaw disruptive behaviour.thank you all

[Guillermo]

... I don't think Bergalia should be castigated or driven from the forum for making a few off-color remarks. He is always friendly and mostly respectful of others...
I agree. Bergalia is a nice guy who posts interesting contributions and also humorous posts. He doesn't insult people as others use to do quite often.

... Let's treat each other with respect and good will. Maybe we can demonstrate sanity in an insane world!!...
I agree again.

... By the way Bergalia, nice boat...
And nice way of building her. Third agreement.

[Vega]

It is the posts which are (intentionally or not) personal insults. For instance, calling people idiots. I don't think Bergalia should be castigated or driven from the forum for making a few off-color remarks. He is always friendly and mostly respectful of others. ... Chasing humor off the forum is definitely not desirable.


I totally agree.

Mr Walrus... this fool ...clown... idiot... ridiculous...vulgar...boorish...selfish...rude...

Now do you think (even if it assists some merit in your diatribe) that this is a sensible way of publicly talking of another fellow Forum member? You can think what you want about everybody, but please, keep it to yourself.

If you consider Mr Walrus rude, what do you think of your behavior?

I would say that if sometimes the Walrus, in his rude manner, can make me smile, I don't see in you the least shred of humor, and that is a sad thing.

Walrus, come back and behave yourself. Make me smile without insulting the rest of the world...and try not to piss out of the right threads, I mean out of the "threads (that will be) recorded for posterity". :p :p :p

Bergalia I would love to see your spirit among the mist of our youngsters (I am also a teacher). Your (nice) boat, with recovered materials is a lesson in the art of living. If you were closer I would ask you to give some teaching at my school...I bet the kids would love and would learn a lot with you. :cool:

[Hunter25]

I recently learned that the guy that has worked on my boat several times, new mast and rig being the latest thing, was PAR. I emailed him last week and he's also not contrubituting to the forum any more for the same reasons as stated by others. I have enjoyed his posts and the members list shows he has made many. Another victim to those that wish they had a microphone from which to spew.

[Figgy]

I have lots of opinions about the posts on this forum. The reason I don't reply more often is because I don't want to be one of the idiots here. I don't want to be one of the people that gets ripped for not totally understanding what the elitist are talking about. Sometimes it's just safer to read.

[kach22i]

I think the critics should also note that there is a little used forum area called "Boat Building" which is a more "how to do" than main section called Boat Design which tends to involve more theory than practice.

Link:
http://boatdesign.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=5

The class clown type acts are best enjoyed in the
Open Discussion area in my opinion. Light hearted, non-distracting livery should be accepted in any of the forums, but in moderation of course. The offenders if they exist, should take this thread as a "notice" of their peers (the self moderation of peer presure).

[trouty]

Of why i keep people like that idiot <moderator removed> on my blocked list - so I don't have to read his diatribe!

Easey solution - just add tansales to the list!;)

Yasee - any of thos offended folks - had only to do what I do - block the azzwipes they don't wanna read!

Now if a few of em had done that with me - they wouldn't a had to go and leave - if they are so thin skinned they can't block someone and get on with enjoying themselves here - then they are too thick to be worth keeping as members IMHO!

One wonders how in heck they get on in the real world!:rolleyes:

Live n let live people - of Catcus Kate wants to get uppitty and shoot thru then let her - and if Leo wants to take his bat n ball and gohome - let him!

Won't worry me, likely as not they are already on my ignore list!:D

Pansy azzed butt munchers!:p

The worlds full a panty wads these days!

Belong to a country that bombs innocent women and kids to death in Iraq over weapons of mass dissapearance, creating another "Iraqnam" then presume to lecture the rest of the world about civil behaviour! :P :P

Hey...get a life people!

I could care less what the <moderator removed> of this world think!

Far as I'm concerned we are better off without em! ;)

Thered be a lot less dead inocent women and kids, around who might actually have turned out to be worth listening too someday had they lived and not been bombed to death as "collateral damage by those who presume to espouse politically correct speech on a web board!

I think I've seen it all - down here we call it hypocrisy!

Sheesh and they wonder why we poke fun at the yanks!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Cheers!

[Chris Ostlind]

Gosh Trouty, there was a time when I had this startling impression of your thought process... and then you started to speak.

It's no wonder that critical thinking has taken a right turn on the International roadmap when folks can publish this sort of stuff and call it coherent. Please get in touch with the nearest, university level English department. They have classes for the stuff you missed in grade school.

More like a patchwork quilt of unfounded ideas compounded by a drifting, anchor free, philosophy. Now, that's what I call dialed-in, my boy. And the use of the mother tongue is delightful in its breadth of expression.

Your devoted friend,

Chris

[kach22i]

Sheesh and they wonder why we poke fun at the yanks!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Cheers!

Not all of us Yanks are Wankers.;)

[tansails]

To the detractors before.

No single moderator can effectively police the forum, the single moderator you know as Jeff relies on reports from users for intervention. Aluding to houses is very emotional but not logical, this is not the moderators house this is an open relatively self-regulating public forum on BOAT DESIGN . If you are at another persons house with a crowd there is a social effect which stops the individuals acting boorishly, there is no such inhibition in an online forum.

Already many better people have gone away. If all the Architects and Engineers go away to other forums then what do you have left? By encouraging the idiot posters the threads fill up with their effluent . This is a recent phenomena, and where do you think it will stop if people do not speak out.

It is very apparent that these people look for posts by another in their gang and then enter that thread with their childish playground humor.

The idiot posters have been very rude to many people, they have no propriety this is selfish behaviour. Where re their manners?

In describing them what language am I supposed to use ? If I write a bland inoffensive critique do you think it would even be noticed?

Shall I now go through the thousands of posts by the idiot posters and dredge up every offensive insulting post so you can see it with your own eyes? Perhaps you can go and look at it yourself. There are many.

We need to ask just what sort of forum is wanted and perhaps have a code of conduct which keeps the group of selfish posters out of threads which do not relate to them, in other-words they need their own threads that people can seek out if they want.

Consider that what you may tolerate or find humorous that others find vile and offensive this is the case in any public meeting place. To allude to turning off an offensive TV show is not the same that means going to another TV show, this is not an option if the show is the only one relative to what you desire and the show is live and you are in the show.

This is my view, there are I know many who contact me directly who think the same but they are shy to post their support directly because of the bullying tactics by the idiot posters and their support network.

Their behavior which you would have us all tolerate will lead to more and more idiotic postings until the forum chokes in their output. They need an online chat room not a boat design forum.

The post by Trouty sums up the attitude.

Thankyou
MB

[Willallison]

Ok - I've been nice 'till now, but to hear that PAR has gone - along with a number of other knowledgeable folk - doesn't just upset me. It REALL PISSES ME OFF:mad:
I came across this forum in 2001. I've made 1460 posts - as many as almost any other member here. In that respect at least, I believe I'm qualified to speak up on this issue.
I've learned an enormous amount from the very people that you slack-mouthed bastards have driven away. They've taught me as much as I've gleaned from 5 years of formal yacht design study.

Apolgies in advance Jeff but -

If you pricks can't say something constructive, then FUCK OFF

[Willallison]

Jeff - feel free to delete that last line once the relevant people have read it....

[Robert Gainer]

No, I think that last line sums it up and should stay. I also have had it with this and want to see a change.
Robert Gainer

[RHough]

Aluding to houses is very emotional but not logical, this is not the moderators house this is an open relatively self-regulating public forum on BOAT DESIGN .

I think it is exactly on point. Someone pays the bill for the storage space and bandwidth. They pay the bills, they are the only ones to have a say on content and conduct.

Do you seriously think you could stop Jeff from pulling the plug? It is his house, he could close the door in 10 seconds and there is not a damn thing we could do about it.

This is not a public park where the users have a say in what goes on. This is a private forum, open to the public through the goodness of someones heart. We, as users have no say.

When Jeff gets tired of people fighting and name calling in his house, he will close the door. Starting this thread did nothing more than to add to the noise.

There is a mechanism to report posts to the moderator. Starting a thread and whinging is not it. Talk to the moderator in private, offer you services as a forum cop. If Jeff wants change all he has to do is ask.

We, as guests in Jeff's house are in no position to tell him how to run his party.

This forum owes us nothing, we have no say.

[Wellydeckhand]

Maybe some people once in a while would lend thread or still young in the forum may not understand the feeling for other members that post knowledgable thread and would want scientific content only. We have seem gone through polling on wheather political issue be drag on board to non avail.

My point is why not pull idiotic post form future thread and relinked them to thread that labelled under ( POST OFFENDER ) and let the shame run itself? If u all get my meaning.

Sorry, I do enjoy reading various topic in the forum and I cherish the people that contribute and make this forum work. I for one is not chasing senior post fame or attention. Maybe cultural difference and believe may have cause misunderstand on what is surposed to be need........ Culture Shock maybe......

I find it easy not ingore anybody but that me........ thicker skin . But I understand the forum when i see a cluster of doctor or lawyer, they tend to stay to themselve proffesional but ingnore the fact that a lot of small people make it work including the juries from all walk of life. Now is the forum wanting the so call jury out and do the forum full professional way? You can lock the forum and block all viewing that would settle all problem.

Thanks for letting me see a different view of others belief Tansail.

:):):)

[Jeff]

It is true that I pay for the server and bandwidth, but at the same time the forum does in fact owe you all collectively a great deal. A server with forum software and a world of bandwidth is worth very little without valuable people willing to share their knowledge and ideas - without all of you, it would simply be an empty shell.

As far as change, I do think something must be done as I am very sad to have lost a handful of our most valuable posters in the last few weeks who felt the forum has become too unprofessional, topics have too often been dragged off topic, and the environment has become too hostile or childish. I realize humor has it's place, but not when it ruins a serious discussion or makes others feel uncomfortable. I'm looking to reach a decision next week as to how to best approach this problem. (I do feel that every day there is substantial new content added, so I do not feel it is a crisis yet, but I do feel something must be done very soon to point the forums in the right direction and hopefully to win back some of those valued posters who have left in recent weeks.)

[tonydignity]

Thank you Jeff for a wise and just leadership in this debate.
May I add my agreement to every comment you have made./Tony

[Ari]

Good move Jeff:!: .I do come from a very strict and tightly govern environment.. being rude is not tolerable in a lot of situation, being light and breezee is something that attracted me to this forum:) .I know very well how dry can an oleo chemical forum or hydrocarbon processing or Fludised Catalytic Cracking, or my beloved subject Instrument Protection Function and Reliability Centered Maintenance is..I love them..real dry..not a shred of humor..:) Frankly I never expected that kind of dryness to be in the group that love the water..I'm proven wrong:rolleyes: .Board meeting in high turbulance situation are lot more humble compared to comments of boating expert..!:D

[Jeff]

I think most complaints are about off-topic or completely non-substantive posts. It's disappointing to get an email that someone has replied to your query to find only a joke and no information at all.

[tonydignity]

Right on . Off topic replies are nothing if not irritating and disrespectful.to the dedication I find with almost all my fellow contributors.
Booze cruising,the threads detracts from a worthwhile opportunity to share our combined experiences.

[RHough]

It is true that I pay for the server and bandwidth, but at the same time the forum does in fact owe you all collectively a great deal. A server with forum software and a world of bandwidth is worth very little without valuable people willing to share their knowledge and ideas - without all of you, it would simply be an empty shell.



I'm happy that you see it that way. :)

It is hard work to build up a user/member base to fill that empty shell of software. Now that internet forums have taken the place of the BBS's of the 80's the sheer number of people that have access to a forum is staggering. For there to be order on an internet forum you have to restrict access to those that you know (or can qualify) or you have to spend time moderating.

One reason that there is a problem is that the expected behaviour is not spelled out clearly or often. Believe it or not, Huns, children, and forum members LIKE rules. Having standards for conduct tells the tribe that the chief cares about what they do. If you expect the Huns to show self discipline, you must be ready to enforce your standards. That may mean moderating with a heavier hand that you would like at first, but in little time those that add value to the forum will still be here and the others will not.

As far as professionalism goes. I'm a professional in the Marine Industry, but not as a designer. I value the ability to read and post here. All you have to do is lay down the law and all of us that want to see the forum continue will snap to and make it so.

[Wellydeckhand]

I'll second that on RHough but including baning of smilely if we all wanna get serious and sober..................

Black is a colour - Christian Dior

[RHough]

Not all of us Yanks are Wankers.;)

And not all of us Wankers are Yanks :) !!!

[trouty]

I find it highly presumptious, to believe that anyone can impose their particular ideals of behaviour, on other cultures, in an international forum.

Of course the objections comming largely from those of a nation that attempted to "democratise" Iraq with Depleted Uranium bombs - I guess we sould not expect much better!:rolleyes:

Maybe there is some merit in levels of participation.

Maybe some forums SHOULD have different standards to others!

The facts are their are measures folks can take to "keep the board" how they wish to percieve it without presuming to enfore their particular ideals on others!

If other features are added that give greater flexibility to do that, then well and good!

This is the place for "frank" discussions about such issues.

The panty wads even complain about that!

This is NOT some 'eltitist' boat design forum for selected credentialed contributors - in fact I have no doubt they could probably afford the $ to host their own elitist site with those particular attributes if they so wished and keep the unwashed multitudes like me out!

Instead they wish to belly ache and moan here because it isn't how they like it and they want it different!

Grow up is my advice!

Tis a big ol world out there full of peoples from all races creeds and backgrounds.

All that they may have in common, is an interest in boat design!

That is all this site, by definition, requires!

However - As I have already proven once, being politically correct here is an impossibility - the thread on that aspect proved it beyind doubt IMHO!

This - comming of course from the nation - who might not agree with what you say, but would fight to the death to defend your right to say it! :rolleyes:

The dismantling of everything that made America great is what I am witnessing here!

Is it any wonder your constitution is in tatters, and your bill of rights is now a bill of 'no rights!':rolleyes:

Aquiescing to the childish demands of the loud few here, is just another step on the path to hypocrisy for your nation!

America frankly needs to grow up and take a look at how others perceive it!

It has never been held in such low regard as it is now - and the attempts of a few here to change others to fit their particular ideals / or mould - is NOT productive for a free interchange of ideas.

That is the beauty of the internet - people are free to participate or not - to block, ignore or be selective in which manner they participate!

There will always be those who leave for whatever reason - that is their prerogative and right to, so choose!

They choose to do so - no one else drives them away. It is unfair to blame ANYONE for driving folks away!

I recieve just as many emails and PM's each day suggesting folks agree with me and asking me to stay etc etc.

I could care less what the panty wads post - just add em to the blocked list and get on with it! It aint so hard once you ge used to it!

Cheers!

[Wellydeckhand]

I dont think it is about America Trouty......... Rome fell in parliment when everybody think of stabbing the Bos...... Ceaser. Just imagine what knife icy word can do to people who cant ingore or too thin skin.

[kach22i]

Is it any wonder your constitution is in tatters, and your bill of rights is now a bill of 'no rights!':rolleyes:

It's no wonder; it's the republican fascist party at work- wink wink.

THE RULES

1. No politics.

2. No disruptive joking/BANTER.

I see the above rules as a community attempt to keep/make/build this site into a professional level website, or at least one narrowly focused on boats and boating.

I respect the above rules, and ask the hucksters to get on board. I also suggest that if mayhem were to erupt, it be done in an organized manner, in a dedicated General Discussion/Off-Topic thread others can stay away from if they choose to.

[RHough]

I find it highly presumptious, to believe that anyone can impose their particular ideals of behaviour, on other cultures, in an international forum.



Are you saying that you exercise no control over the actions of guests in your home? If a guest offends you in your home are they welcome to stay?

A simple example of how someone can impose their bias on an international forum is the choice of language. In here it choice is English, or some version of it. :)

This forum is privately owned, the owner can make and enforce any rules they like. None of us has any "rights" past what we are given by the owner. This ain't a free society, it's benevolent dictatorship. Just like your home.

[DanishBagger]

Hmm

This thread makes me wonder how elitist this place really is?

I'm serious, it seems there should be no room for anyone not living up to specific perceived "professional rules of behaviour".

Why _not_ applaud this as a difference in culture, instead of trying to make everything the same?

The entire thread exudes elitism, and it makes me wonder if the same people that think that wally and welly et al shouldn't be here, think that I too should go, since I am not a pro, don't design boats and are merely a builder of my first (and hopefully only) boat, only so they/you can have these forums to yourself, a closed club.

[Chris Ostlind]

Danish Bagger,

Of course, you can leave if you want to. Personally, I would understand the motivation for such a move. I would hope that you reconsider before doing so.

Here's a grouping of examples from a recent post that make one shudder with the lack of civility being expressed, as well as the limited use of the language in rough and abusive tone,

"Of why i keep people like that idiot <moderator removed> on my blocked list - so I don't have to read his diatribe!

Yasee - any of thos offended folks - had only to do what I do - block the azzwipes they don't wanna read!

Pansy azzed butt munchers!

The worlds full a panty wads these days!

Belong to a country that bombs innocent women and kids to death in Iraq over weapons of mass dissapearance, creating another "Iraqnam" then presume to lecture the rest of the world about civil behaviour!

I could care less what the <moderator removed> of this world think!

Far as I'm concerned we are better off without em!

There'd be a lot less dead inocent women and kids, around who might actually have turned out to be worth listening too someday had they lived and not been bombed to death as "collateral damage by those who presume to espouse politically correct speech on a web board!"



Yes, these are excerpted component elements from one person's, single rant from earlier in this thread. It would be far easier to reign-in the folks who choose to use the language in this fashion along with their, less than civil philosophical ideas, than it would to recreate a discussion forum for responsible gentleman as yourself. Please reconsider the efforts of our moderator and owner, Jeff, in the near future as a move in the right direction to the end you seek.

Chris

[kach22i]

I don't always use SpellCheck, please don't kick me out.;)

[DanishBagger]

True, that seems a bit over the top, and I agree that the examples you have provided doesn't fall into what I consider "in good taste". However that doesn't change the notion that all of this seems quite a bit elitist.

With regards to this quote:

There'd be a lot less dead inocent women and kids, around who might actually have turned out to be worth listening too someday had they lived and not been bombed to death as "collateral damage by those who presume to espouse politically correct speech on a web board!"


Obviously the "death" is not to be taken literally, and the essense of that statement seems to be "if the elite, or the "moral majority" shuts down people that aren't like them, there would have been more diversity. And that for the better". And that I whole heartedly agree with.

Yet, I do know that I carry no weight here, but it all smacks of elitism of the worst kind to me.


About me leaving, just to make things clear, I'm not threatening to leave (lol, what a threat!), but it has me wondering if the people in this thread (including you, as the thread starter), want people like me to leave too, just as you (as in "you guys") want the other ones to leave.

If you ("you guys") are of that opinion, please don't hesitate to send the people you want to leave private messages so we know that we aren't welcome here.

[Vega]

an example of bad taste:

Here's a grouping of examples from a recent post that make one shudder with the lack of civility being expressed[/B.....that idiot [B]<moderator removed> Chris

Yes I agree with you. Civility and good manners as well as respect for the other (even if we do not agree with him) are necessary in a productive forum and should be enforced. Members should not insult other members or feel they are insulted by others.

Some other similar examples of unacceptable behavior, in my opinion worst than the ones you have quoted, because Trouty had called idiot to a specific member (completely unacceptable anyway) and these others posters insulted other members without naming exactly whom they were addressing to:

“The idiot posters”…

“I've learned an enormous amount from the very people that you slack-mouthed bastards have driven away.”

“If you pricks can't say something constructive, then FUCK OFF”

“….. Trouty, there was a time when I had this startling impression of your thought process... and then you started to speak.”

In my opinion this forum does need some rules to prevent that useful technical threads to be cluttered with noise. I also believe that there are many ways to say the same thing and the ones that need to slander or insult other people to make their point are just using a way that should not be allowed in this forum.

It looks that some rules are also necessary to prevent that.

[Chris Ostlind]

Yes, Vega, you are correct in your assessment.

To that end, I apologize to Trouty for the use of the phrase, " Trouty, there was a time when I had this startling impression of your thought process... and then you started to speak.”

Not necessary to make my point.

[Vega]

You have a big soul. Not many people would have the courage to acknowledge a mistake. I am impressed:cool:

[DanishBagger]

Vega, if that was pointed in my direction (the long one), then all I can say is that I'm definately not against having rules. It's the way things are handled. And being "polite" or not using "foul" language is not an end-all method. One can be as rude as a sailor, yet talk like an academic.

[Vega]

Vega, if that was pointed in my direction (the long one), then all I can say is that I'm definately not against having rules. .... One can be as rude as a sailor, yet talk like an academic.

:confused: No, I did not point anything in your direction:p ...and I agree with you that there are many ways to be rude...and sometimes some misunderstandings.
By the way, I am a sailor...are you calling me rude?:P

[DanishBagger]

hehe, no, not at all. just like the expression "to swear like a sailor" :p

[wdnboatbuilder]

this is an interesting thread, even though I'm as guilty of spraying as some others. In the bigining of this thread I guess I'm out. I don't design or build boat at this time so I would guess that I'm not welcome. So I would guess that this will be my last posting here on this site. It's been nice guys and thanks for the info and humor you have given me.

[Jeff]

So I would guess that this will be my last posting here on this site.
I hope that's not true - please give us some time to get things repointed before making a decision.

[Guillermo]

Live n let live people - of Catcus Kate wants to get uppitty and shoot thru then let her - and if Leo wants to take his bat n ball and gohome - let him!...
Far as I'm concerned we are better off without em!

Your attitude is exactly the kind of problem here.

[tonydignity]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/

Pages 4 and 5 are dedicated to the story of Cyber bullies,as well as kicking off on the front page today.
So what constitutes Cyber Bullying?.

[tonydignity]

http://www.cyberbullying.ca/

[tonydignity]

http://www.bullyonline.org/related/cyber.htm

[DanishBagger]

Well, acting elitist is a form of bullying.

[trouty]

Your attitude is exactly the kind of problem here

I would contend exactly the same Guillermo - some Johnny come lately, holier than thou, attempt to elevate your status by bringing someone else down, in order to make yourself look bigger! :rolleyes:

I typical 'little man' syndrome! ;)

It's why you gained the elevated status of the very first to get on my 'blocked list' - because I truly believe, you are so intellectually impared, as to have nothing worthwhile to post, that I could wish to read, and it is why - you so remain, aspermanenetly blocked as from this moment on!

Perhaps it's your culture or something - to me I'd sooner not have anything to do with you!

Thats what I like so much about the "blocked" feature - you should try it sometime!;)

People who contribute little and whine a lot are a waste of my time and effort, thats why I put them on the blocked list!

It works for me - I like the feature alot!

I also happen to like serious discussions, on the other forums - and swapping a little light hearted banter with the rest of the fellows here in the open discussion forum to let off steam when the anal retentiveness of the "professional" twaddle all gets a little too much to take, out on the main boards!

You know - if some of the whiners put as much effort into new threads topics, and actually answering or attempting to answer the questions newbys here post (instead of treating them like intelectual leppers) a few more might actually choose to stay and participate / contribute!.

I think the problem here is overfamiliarity.

Vega - no need to apologise - I wasn't offended.

Everyones entitled to their opinion and to post it - you see thats the difference - some people think I shouldn't be entitled to express mine!:mad:

Thats when the hackles go up and I spray!;)

I don't stop anyone saying anything - have I ever complained to you Jeff about any post ever?

Do I whine to the moderator or hit the little triangle symbol to call a teacher to break up a school yard fight?

Nope - I live 'n let live - thats my motto - but some of you behave as though you are still in school for goodness sakes! (Who knows maybe some of you are!).

It's as though someone always has to have the last word...every thread has to be wrung out until there is a winner and loser!

Well - to me we are all the losers for that type of attitude!

And - this is my last word on this subject!:)

Cheers!
P.s - go to www.joecartoon.com. Look at the gerbil video cartoon...and find out whats meant by pansy azzed buttmunchers! ;)
Some of you need to take a good look at yourselves IMHO

Heres a taster from Joecartoon!

[Chris Ostlind]

Come on, Mate... You can get it together better than the last few postings. I've seen you do it, so I know it's in there.

Truth is, there's much to be admired in your positions, but it's the way you express them that makes you seem outside the acceptable norms for a discussion group.

I'm not oppsed to your poilitics, Mate, just your written mannerisms. I'm not asking you to become something you are not, just that you recognize that there are all sorts of civility issues on a forum of this type that encompass a lot of different cultures. When you slam one issue too hard, you are bound to be slamming the sensitivity of another. You can make your point, kindly, and then move on to better places.

If you could just tone it down a bit, then there wouldn't be so much fur flying in the air. This isn't a place in time where you are going to effect change in a global, political manner. All of us are aware of the issues of what is going on in the world and you might be surprised to discover that many of your fellow forum posters share your views, politically. I, for one, don't feel that those political views have much traction on a forum of this type and I ask you to refrain from posting the opinions you have to that end.

Your experience with boats is what I am after in the grand exchange and I'd like very much if you could please leave out the political commentary and save it for another place, at another time.

That would go a long way to making things better here. Well, that and the personal humility of sending an apology when it is deserved.

What do you say, Trouty... Is kindness and good will a part of your personal interest in the name of a better forum?

Your friend,

Chris

[Vega]

Truth is, there's much to be admired in your positions, but it's the way you express them that makes you seem outside the acceptable norms for a discussion group.

I'm not oppsed to your poilitics, (but) When you slam one issue too hard, you are bound to be slamming the sensitivity of another.

That would go a long way to making things better here. Well, that and the personal humility of sending an apology when it is deserved.

What do you say, Trouty... Is kindness and good will a part of your personal interest in the name of a better forum?

Your friend,

Chris

I could not agree more.

Referring to politics, it is clear that you are an idealist and want to change the world for better and that is good, but the way you provoke other people with strong words and farfetched political analogies (even if they ring true), and sometimes insults, have the opposite effect. Nobody is going to listen to what a shouting and aggressive man is saying. They just say to themselves that nothing good can come from an exalted man.

So if you want to contribute to change the world, and want to change the way some other people perceive reality, stop shouting and change your attitude, not you, just learn how to be more efficient...... but don’t forget that reality and truth have many faces and change with the eyes of the beholder. The only ones that have an absolute and positive certainty about their perceived reality are the Fascist, the hard line communists and all the other fundamentalists (Islamics, terrorists ,etc)...so take care, try to respect and understand other views and other cultures and you will see that is going to also change yourself, making you a better man (only the very dumb don’t change).

Too much political talk, but that’s just because you seem to put politics ahead of everything and this is a Boat Forum. The main focus should be on boats. I agree that in the end everything has political ramifications (politics are the way we act to change reality), but that is in the end. Many times so much in the end that it is completely absurd to talk about politics on many boat related issues. With you, politics seem to come always first. That is bad, even for the ones that think (like me) that you can not segregate any human activity from politics, because someday people are going to be fed up and say...no more politics on this forum and no more Trouty. And that is a shame.

Your friend

Vega

[DanishBagger]

I could not agree more.

Referring to politics, it is clear that you are an idealist and want to change the world for better and that is good, but the way you provoke other people with strong words and farfetched political analogies (even if they ring true), and sometimes insults, have the opposite effect. Nobody is going to listen to what a shouting and aggressive man is saying. They just say to themselves that nothing good can come from an exalted man.


Actually, I, for one, don't think like that. I can't see anger there at all. I can see indignation, but that is a good thing in my opinion.

I don't get it why so many people are so quick to jump to conclusions and then as soon that is done, a judgement is made. A judgement from where there is no escape, because the mere opposition is considered to be in line with, and a confirmation of the presumption that all this is anger.

Sorry, but I make a living of being "professionally indignated", and I consider it a good thing, thereby I, and everyone else that also get indignated may see the bigger picture, instead of going "this or that is not accepted, and this or that is a sure sign of x or y", when all that is, is an easy, simple way to view the world.

It's like saying that using socalled "swear" words are a sign of less than average intelligence. Well, everyone can learn to parrot an academic, or talk like a sailor, it's the way those words are used that makes it interesting.

And, frankly, I prefer sailors to academics. Both literally and metaphorically (ignore that I have an academic education - I had to do find a job where I wasn't supposed to use my back and feet too much).

Edit: I do feel very awkward having this discussion - I'm one of the newbies that aren't supposed to say "shyte", but sit back in awe, and let you Auld Fellas of the Site take the lead, but the thing is, I _did think the world of this site, and now so many of you guys (m/f) act like so little people.

[DanishBagger]

Come to think of it, based on the suggestions of having newbies merely post in the general area, that would mean I couldn't have made my thread about Molly. To me that would have been an awful shame, and I like to think that as the project progresses, and more text and pics are added that someone else might benefit from that thread.

If not, I could have simply asked questions one by one in the general area, being told I could not ask those questions there, and then go figure it all out myself, resulting in me adding absolutely zilch to this forum, directly or indirectly.

[solrac]

Come on kids, ten minutes break.... each one to his corner...
Seems the problem of misunderstandings (& other facts...) here might be the different cultures of any one of you (us). Please take care that in some (many) cases, not all of us manage english as main language, so, what we write may differ fron what we are trying to say, even between native english language people from different sites of the world, are there a lot of different ways to write an idea, some of them might be misunderstood by others...

[MikeJohns]

I don't think it is really the humorous posts that are getting people to leave. It is the posts which are (intentionally or not) personal insults. ...................
.......The problem, as demonstrated by this thread, is that no one likes to be attacked, belittled or insulted. The result is that they go away (which reduces the richness of the forum)

Sentiments to which I am sure we would all agree.

Human society needs rules to function. Rules that allow participation but curb the antisocial side.

There is no suggestion that the forum become elitist, just responsible and polite. Humour and some banter can coincide with genteel behaviour.

The forum has always been about sharing information; everyone benefits from the queries and the answers and sometimes the ensuing arguments.

When it comes to the arguments some passion needs to be allowed in debate but personal insults should not be tolerated nor do we need foul langauge. Posts should be on the topic of the discussion and not just chat to another member.

Other forums such as the metal boat society are strictly moderated and tend to lose a certain ambience also a huge amount of work for the moderators.

Jeff
We do need a solution... go carefully....good luck!

[longliner45]

we have all vented I hope , we have all been part ( in some way ) of running off members,we all have jobs that ,on days are is good and others bad. I myself ,am a powerlinman,its a high stress job.men who I consider brothers ,,,,,die every month. we lose 3 lineneman a month. so sometimes I vent louder than others.I love to talk about boats because no one else around me does . I dont have a lot to offer ,exept the part of my life as a comercial fisherman, I try to be factual and give only first hand info.im a fairly decent shade tree mecanic. I am also a journeyman millwrite and jouneyman utility machinest,and a combat veteran (nicoragua and honduras) im guilty of adding to the pain of this site , but lets look at what we are doing to arselfs,we are tearing each other apart. walrus ,he is an old dude who probably has more time at sea than 10 of us ,welly lives on a river ,,,,probably knows more about river boats than most of us,,,,,I have not had indept conversation with bergalia....my loss.and as for par we may as well have thrown our computers into the streets.these are real people with much to offer , sometimes you cant see the forest because the trees were in the way,,,,,,,longliner

[Wellydeckhand]

great avatar with the bear trouthy....... must be u in disguese

[Guillermo]

...It's why you gained the elevated status of the very first to get on my 'blocked list' ...... and it is why - you so remain, aspermanenetly blocked as from this moment on!...
C'mon, man, this is second time you do this! Admit you cannot live without me! :D
I think you're that kind of persons needing someone whom to hate and project on them all accumulated childhood frustrations and traumas, which, in your case, are pathological.
:rolleyes:
Well, from now on, let's talk boats and no ego or macho games.

[trouty]

Dammnit!

The mans 'onto me'! ;) :D

Lets see how it goes eh?

Infra penny infra pound as the saying goes!:)

Cheers!

[VKRUE]

Tansails,

Lighten up...............................

You've been around this forum since JANUARY OF 2006 (not much longer than I) and you're trying to bully around the very people that have been dominating this forum for years ???? What's up with that ?

Sure, there is a lot of clutter about things that aren't exactly associated with the "SUBJECT" but, when was the last time you had a real conversation with another HUMAN her on earth.

WE ALL STRAY FROM THE SUBJECT... It's part of conversing. If you open your eyes & ears you can learn from the clutter as well.

It was a hard lesson for me but, I eventually learned that there are things to be learned from the dumbest of the idiots... Believe it or not !

Quit yer bitchin' and get on with learning.

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

[Moss]

Don't do yourself down, Max. It looks like a fine vessel to me. I'm busy with a similar (although rather smaller) project (20ft ply sharpie) and trying to keep costs down by picking up bits and pieces wherever I can find or make them, so your project approach impresses me greatly.
As a matter of interest, how exactly does your version of a sprit sail look? At first glance I thought you'd gone for some sort of lateen rig, which I was considering as a simple and cheap possibility. Any experience/thoughts on aftmast rigs of the (single-masted ketch) Runningtide type? Basically, what I'm looking for is something that is both cheap to buy/make, easily demountable for trailering, and uncomplicated to sail singlehandedly or two-up. Not asking for much, am I?

[DanishBagger]

Don't do yourself down, Max. It looks like a fine vessel to me. I'm busy with a similar (although rather smaller) project (20ft ply sharpie) and trying to keep costs down by picking up bits and pieces wherever I can find or make them, so your project approach impresses me greatly.
As a matter of interest, how exactly does your version of a sprit sail look? At first glance I thought you'd gone for some sort of lateen rig, which I was considering as a simple and cheap possibility. Any experience/thoughts on aftmast rigs of the (single-masted ketch) Runningtide type? Basically, what I'm looking for is something that is both cheap to buy/make, easily demountable for trailering, and uncomplicated to sail singlehandedly or two-up. Not asking for much, am I?


Strike one!

;)

Seriously, though, that one is propably in the wrong thread.

VKRUE, good post indeed :)

[Moss]

It was a response to a posting on this thread. Wouldn't make much sense to post it on a different thread, now would it? Given the dominant subject matter, I'll refrain from insulting anyone this time.

[DanishBagger]

No, no, Moss, you misunderstood me. I was joking when I said "strike one"!

And I was obviously mistaken when I thought it was in response to another thread.

And you certainly didn't "insult" me. That's for sure.

[marshmat]

Well, so far I've tried to stay quiet in this fray. I would like to share one statistic though.

A year ago, I read this forum every couple of days and contributed to about 50% of the threads under "New Posts".

Over the last month, I've read this forum every couple of days and only find anything relevant enough to contribute to in about 8-10% of the new posts.

Random, offensive banter is making it very difficult to sort the wheat from the chaff. When legitimate questions are posed, they quickly get hidden under four or five posts of careless rudeness. Witness the "women on boats" thread (or any other thread where the presence of a female becomes obvious), or the "new propulsion technologies" threads which often get cluttered with long rants about topics the posters clearly don't understand and are making up off the top of their heads.

I will stick around, of course. Hopefully those who are stirring up the trouble will soon come to the realization that they're not helping those of us who use this forum to discuss boats and boat technology. Good luck with the cleanup, Jeff. I'll still be here when you're done.

[DanishBagger]

Well, I don't see that much, frankly.

I go over new threads once in a while, seeing if there's something to subscribe to, then, when I have subscribed, I only get those threads. Until next time I go through them.

P.S. Did you really contribute to 50 percent of the threads? That's a lot, methinks.

Seriously, are you sure that the 8-10 percent isn't where the norm ought to be?

[marshmat]

P.S. Did you really contribute to 50 percent of the threads? That's a lot, methinks.
Seriously, are you sure that the 8-10 percent isn't where the norm ought to be?
A year ago, I did typically subscribe to, and add to, about half of what showed up in "New Posts". Just about everything then was about boats, and there weren't nearly as many 'new' things going up as now.
That I now only bother to subscribe to 10% of what's on here is, in my eyes, an indication that useful dialogue is a lot harder to find now. Lately I have seen a lot of good threads get hijacked for no real end whatsoever. And a lot of newbies have been turned off by the rudeness and arrogance of a very few vocal posters. I do think we need to solve this, we're already losing a lot of really interesting people to this pointless fight.

[DanishBagger]

I doubt that you (as in "one"), finding more than 10 percent useful is the norm in so many places, and things. Simply because of diversity.

You ("one") cannot have it both ways, getting diversity, and finding that, say 80 percent, 50 percent, or 100 percent, should be to one's liking, interesting, and what have you.

And then we're back at elitism.

I do feel sorry for posting my dhmo-thread, seeing that "a few vocal" elitist minds think that everything should be so streamlined, so narrow, so much rule-riding of a site, that they, and only they, can speak.

Yes, a few "newbies" (I am one, myself) have been turned off on this site, but if you read a few posts up, you will notice, that because of the few vocal _elitists_, Moss took a reply, that was meant to be taken with a glint (right word?) in the eye, as a serious one. As if I was one of the elitist minds around here.

Isn't it ironic how some things come around to bite one's rear?

[M&M Ovenden]

Thanks Matt for your interventions in threads about women. Even as fairly open minded women it gets quite anoying to find out any thread were women appears gets detoured in tit-talk or cars (how cliche and boring).
That tendency to rudness and out of context comments do keep me from posting. Humour and stabs once a while are fine and fun but when it becomes the general feeling you get out of a forum I loose my interest. Otherwise the concept of a forum on boat design is great and I trully appreciate most of the info and knowledge I can find here.

[DanishBagger]

Hmm, I just took a look at the "Similar threads" down below.

Take a look at this thread:

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5580

It's from 2004, and whooptydoo, take a look at post number three.

My point is, that some friendly banter has been going on for a very long time, and if you guys want to prevent it, ban people and what have you, you will make your field of exposure even narrower than what it seems to be at the moment.

Another thing is, and I have just discovered this (yes, yes, I must be dead slow up there), that tansails has only been here a fortnight more than me, and he's already adopting an elitist attitude. He hasn't even been here for three months yet.

That certainly make me view this thread and the elitists in an even starker light.

[JonathanCole]

Isn't calling someone an "elitist" a form of elitism? (I'm better than you) We don't need to be calling each other derogatory names. If you disagree with what someone says, explain why you think it is wrong. Don't kill the exchange by telling people what they are. You can't really be sure any way, so it is not only insulting and infuriating, it also invites escalation of hostility, something that the human race really has a bad history of. People need to be respectful in an educational forum. This is not a competition, it is a free and open exchange of knowledge, experience and ideas. Let's keep it alive by treating our fellow contributors with respect.

[DanishBagger]

Isn't calling someone an "elitist" a form of elitism? (I'm better than you) We don't need to be calling each other derogatory names. If you disagree with what someone says, explain why you think it is wrong. Don't kill the exchange by telling people what they are. You can't really be sure any way, so it is not only insulting and infuriating, it also invites escalation of hostility, something that the human race really has a bad history of. People need to be respectful in an educational forum. This is not a competition, it is a free and open exchange of knowledge, experience and ideas. Let's keep it alive by treating our fellow contributors with respect.
Is calling someone an elitist a form of elitism? Hmm, is not tolerationg intolerence intolerance? To use an example:

Someone goes "Bloody [insert racistic term]". I go "Hey, come on, we should all tolerate each other, we should all be able to be here". Then saying that the one calling the racist intolerant is intolerant himself is not a good solid argument, simply because there would be less tolerance if people were accepting extremists, racists, intolerance and what have we.

Sidetrack? nope, same idea, different words.

"Am I better than you"? Because I call elitism when I see it? Sure, that is the reason. It's certainly not that I simply just disagree with the notion, that I think we should all be here, and that it would indeed become an elitist place if the few vocal ones calling for a narrow site, with no place to converse in a relaxed way got their will. Does that make me better than them? Yes, if you think that is better. And no, if you don't? However, you seem to forget that I am not the one calling for intolerance, they are.

I, and others, have argued before in this thread why this is smack full of elitism, there's even a couple in the latest. It's certainly not name calling.

I _have_ explained in the posts above, and in every other post I have made in this thread why I consider this elitism, and you go focusing on some misconception that I shouldn't use a description that fits, simply because by doing so, I am fitting that description (which, btw, let me emphasize, is a circular argument, that isn't based on a sound principle).


Let me repeat: Defending tolerance against intolerant people is certainly not intolerant, whereas being tolerant to intolerance is naivity, that can go very wrong (think pre-WWII). This is not as bad, of course, but the mere notion that it's somehow okay to be intolerant is scaring the craps out of me, and if it works as an argument here, it works in "the real world".

[Guillermo]

...seeing that "a few vocal" elitist minds think that everything should be so streamlined, so narrow, so much rule-riding of a site, that they, and only they, can speak....
That's exactly what insulting people have been doing lately. Thinking themselves are the greatest, the funiest and the cleverest...and so trying to shut up and throw off the forums women, knowledgedable people, beginners, NA's and other infrahuman species....

Isn't it ironic how some things come around to bite one's rear?
Yeap!

[DanishBagger]

What does "NA" mean?

[Guillermo]

What does "NA" mean?
New Adamastor...? :p
Sorry. If you are asking seriously: Naval Architects.

[DanishBagger]

New Adamastor...? :p
Sorry. If you are asking seriously: Naval Architects.

Hehe, embarrassingly enough, I was asking seriously :p

[Wellydeckhand]

When we used to have internet surf now in this forum could turn into internet serf...... meaning slave like being with no right to forum time....... heh sorry those under GUEST title.........( that's what elitist feel...... like somesort of superior human..... with better cash or knowledge?)

Well I say peace........ the forum need it anyway......... The forum have given me courage to do dream with professional attitute....... hope it stay within me, but if I slip dont whack me just PM will do.

WDH

[JonathanCole]

The problem with words like elitist, is that it is ascribing motive to people you don't even know. The reason that people say things that you INTERPRET as elitism may be wholly different than you think. You may be wrong about their motive. Yet you are setting yourself up as the arbiter of what is elitist. You might consider whether that is fair.

Calling people an idiot is actually saying that you know what their capacity is and that it is very low. Definitely an insult.

I agree that voluntary associations may not be well served by having several rules-oriented members force everyone else into their rule sets, but I also think that setting yourself up as the arbiter of elitism, idiocy or any negative quality is a mistake. It just creates hostility. If you disagree with a persons viewpoint, just describe the reasons why. No need to call them a derogatory name.

[DanishBagger]

Since when is that ascribing motive any more than it is a simple analysis based on how people act, their arguments, and what they want this place to be. Or rather, what they don't want in here. That one speaks for itself, and it's pretty obvious what is meant. Call that ascribing motives all you want, it doesn't change the facts about what they want, and/or what this place will become if they get their will.

But just like I implied with my analogy to germany pre-wwII, you can do that based on acts. It doesn't matter if I know them, to tell if the acts are elitist, or that it will result in an elitist place.

When did I call people idiots? And if you think of that as an analogy, then howcome, as that has nothing to do with your argument that I somehow judge them based on motive. Since when is calling someone an idjit, considering "interpreting motive"?

The latter part of you post. Well, what can I say, it seems to be based on the forementioned premises. The circular ones I argued against in my previous one, and the new, unfounded, "analogies" of the latest of yours.

However, I will say this. Calling an act what it comes out as, and what the act describes, is hardly calling people names, or being derogatory. I am not the one wanting to be an exclusive club (i.e. and elitist place), I am for the opposite, so don't try to argue that it is somehow me that must be wanting this to be exclusive, because I'm somehow the elitist, because I actually put a word on their behaviour.

You can continue to make your circular argument, that calling intolerance intolerant, is an act of intolerance however much you will, because it doesn't make it so.

And, as I have already said, I _have_ explained the reasons why I disagree with the people that want this to be exclusive.

[DanishBagger]

I forgot to mention something: You have got to be kidding me, when you say that whatever I interpret, I interpret (not a typo). Has it really come down to you arguing against the people that want this to be a place for everyone, by way of semantics? You're seriously trying to argue against the form or frame of the discussion, instead of what is actually in the picture, so to speak.

And, oh, yes, that is also an interpretation, as is everything I read, write, hear, or otherwise sense or are being subjected to, and so is yours. Semantics.


Edit:
Come to think of it, did you even notice the title of this thread? Splendid isn't it? I can now see where you got your analogy from [shakes head]

[Wellydeckhand]

take deep breath and laugh....... peace man...... nobody imply anything this is just a discussion about idiot post doesnt mean WE r idiot right?

[VKRUE]

Sorry everyone... Didn't mean to call ANYONE an idiot. Forgiveness please.

Was just trying to make a point. No matter what one's intelect or background is, something can be learned by someone, somewhere from someone, somewhere else. Everyone on this forum doesn't have to be a boat designer or builder to be able to contribute. And, let's face it, this is just like any other conversation between a group of people... one comment leads to another, and then one thing is said about [this] which triggers something to be said about [that] and so on and so on, and eventually the conversation appears to be misguided. :idea:

See where I'm going... This is the natural course for an active conversation to follow.

Would like to see people get along.

I have a question about putting my 17' plywood boat in the water (when the time comes). Is anyone interested in hearing my question or should I start a new thread ???

VKRUE

[Wellydeckhand]

Start a new thread..... u r a good guy, shouldnt apologies for telling your view,.......... this special thread to exploit on forum ego trip and principle,..... I think....... Like Mary we love discussion and probing of oneselfness what ever it mean.

[Jeff]

A new topic deserves a new thread.

[Vega]

About this being an elitist forum, among other boat forums, I guess it is.

This is not a forum just about boats, it is a forum mainly about BOAT DESIGN.

Everybody can talk about boats, but people that have real and substantial knowledge about boat design are few and of course they are an elite, they are the ones that have most of the knowledge and the practice.

So I guess that there are two different types of guys around, those that are professionals (a small number) and the others (I am one of the others). Of course, everybody can learn and contribute in a positive way and there are even some guys who don't have a job in this area that know a lot about boats and boat's design (not me).

The fact that this forum, being elitist by its specific subject, accepts the unrestricted contributions of everybody (at the same level), makes this forum as liberal as it can be.

It is up to the members to understand the specifics of this forum and the different levels of knowledge that its members share. For my part, not being a design professional in this area, I am very satisfied that I can modestly participate and learn a lot in the process. :cool:

[Wellydeckhand]

The Proffesional Designer can make dream but not evryone of them test it or go wet with it. A sailor on the other hand might not design it but sure know when to bail out of bad design.

It is a matter........ does design live on itself or on other component as well? The Lux Yacht is symbol of human craze for freedom and continual of design make it more perfect........ but real money ( bread and butter) still from trade, cargo, utility, shipping, fishing and other non leasuire yacht.

Many company went bankcrupt because thinking there will be unlimited rise in deman for lux yacht.( Broker is the one that feed on both side)

[safewalrus]

Hey a question for everybody?

Has anybody seem anything of our old friend "Tanned Horse", last seen on page four? or has he just stirred up the hornets nest and departed?

would seem plausable!:rolleyes: :mad: :rolleyes: :confused: :rolleyes:

[DanishBagger]

Hey a question for everybody?

Has anybody seem anything of our old friend "Tanned Horse", last seen on page four? or has he just stirred up the hornets nest and departed?

would seem plausable!:rolleyes: :mad: :rolleyes: :confused: :rolleyes:

I wouldn't be surprised. It wouldn't be the first time forums on the net encountered a spat of hit'n'run people.

Heh, I checked his profile to see if he had posted anywhere else since that last post in this thread, and it says he has made 15 posts. Now, not that post count matters, but what possesses someone that has been here for such a short period of time AND made such few posts to make a thread calling people idjits, calling for them to get banned?

Hmm, if he reads this, maybe the above can flush him out from under his bridge...

[VKRUE]

Also states that he's read (1000) posts... ? Who is he really :?:

Sounds like someone is hiding behind a mask...................

[DanishBagger]

Edit, somehow I missed the title of the above post.


I wouldn't be surprised if it was someone with an alias, who just wasn't big enough to use his own name for this.

heh, when he started this thread, Tannyboy had posted ten times before, certainly seems like Jeff ought to look into some IP addresses.

[Wellydeckhand]

I dont think anybody need mask anymore........ for tanny maybe busy taking care of business or handle a party for his future.:D :D :D

[Guillermo]

I wouldn't be surprised if it was someone with an alias, who just wasn't big enough to use his own name for this.
What is yours, DanishBagger?

[DanishBagger]

I meant "his own _nickname_" Thinking that Tanny might have two nicks around here.

My real name is Andre - I sometimes sign my posts with it, but it becomes too much if I were to sign them all (people would propably get annoyed.

[RHough]

Interesting thought ...

This idiot thread has 125 replies, and over 2,300 views. The whiner that started it has 15 posts ...

Does it take us 125 replies to get to:

"It would be nice if we didn't fight and insult each other"?

No wonder committee's never get anything done. :D

[DanishBagger]

Haha, Rhough, good point!

[safewalrus]

unfortunately he's managed to get a lot of good posters to leave in disgust which is not on - no matter how they insult us (me saying that ? must be loosing it):D

[DanishBagger]

Indeed, wally. It's quite ironic, methinks, that people were/are saying that people are leaving because of people having a sense of humour, only to have people being driven away because of that very same whining.

I have to say, though, that I am staying, unless I am toosed out by my head and [rear], tough luck that their whining has good people leaving, and they end up having to deal with people that apparently doesn't ad "good" stuff to this site, such as me. Ah, the irony.


(Andre ;) )

[kach22i]

Not to get political, but I found this article to be interesting - perhaps the researchers reached a little in their conclusions, but an interesting concept just the same.

How to spot a baby conservative
Whiny children, claims a new study, tend to grow up rigid and traditional. Future liberals, on the other hand ...
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1142722231554&call_pageid=970599119419
Remember the whiny, insecure kid in nursery school, the one who always thought everyone was out to get him, and was always running to the teacher with complaints? Chances are he grew up to be a conservative.

At least, he did if he was one of 95 kids from the Berkeley area that social scientists have been tracking for the last 20 years. The confident, resilient, self-reliant kids mostly grew up to be liberals.

[Wellydeckhand]

I think..... somehow tanny is actually doin us a favour....... It is a bad case of tantra but...... it made me think of my level of politeness and where I should stick my nose into.......

I am more concious that i should upgrade to a higher level of boat design in order to speak freely in the post? Maybe choose Westlawn ...... guys........ Only methink it would be a challange from no clue to a diploma...... now thats a karma check-up.

Wellysillysometime

[DanishBagger]

LOL; no matter how much people are saying you have a "weird" language, I have to say: You're bloody splendid at irony!

[Mayfly]

Tansail is just voicing his thought and what people think of foolhearty repied could rubbed onto the reader. I think tolerent on the part of the poster and reader need to be adjust with the will and regulation of the forum. Afterall its the forum and owner of the site know-best. I think this non the less is a superb site for ideas and design... keep up the good work.

[H2O_BABIES]

By posting to this thread , I hope will not be label as an idiot. I maybe slow as am new, may ask the wrong question in wrong topic and be label idiots, so I will be extra careful.
TAKE CARE & THANKS

H2O

[marshmat]

I doubt you'll be labelled an idiot for posting to this thread, H2O ;) Just stay out of the TP52 thread and you're probably safe! Welcome aboard.

[Mayfly]

Yes, stay passive always work, unless you're sinking in the sea and cant swim.

[safewalrus]

Yes Mayfly your bang on! But what's the point of having a forum if we all sit on our arses and do nothing! the whole point of aurgument is to learn from others - and the more heated some get the better - puts the point across! if you see what I mean?

I'll tell you and the others out there that something good,for me at least has come out of this forum

some forty years ago my country was called (along with others ;Austrailia New Zealand mainly) to assist a newly formed country "Malaysia" (Ari's lot) who were having some problems with a "big bad neighbour" Indonesia (Welly's lot) who didn't want the fledgling county to become one! with me so far? Well I attended this so called police action (we didn't even call it a war! you still died very dead but...). I lost a couple of mates and in the process became rather bitter and twisted towards Indonesia (Welly's lot).

Well last year at the International Festival of the sea in Portsmouth (the original one!) under the same Queen as we fought for all those years ago, there was an Indonesian Sail Training vessel present - nice bunch of guys! The band did a march round the arena and their final number was 'jingle bells' yes in July a bloody christmas carol! Well these guys didn't aseem that bad I thought maybe they have improved - then Welly showed upon this forum - yeah I wasn't to amused - slagged him off a bit (well a lot actually) he took it all! Now I've got to like the guy and kinda got to actually like the Indonesians; layed a few ghosts for me!

Now the point is on this modern system this would not have been allowed to happen I'd have been kicked out on my backside within seconds, which would have been a pity! I'm still a cantakerous old bastard but I admit it and this forum HAS been of benefit to me (Thanks Jeff for allowing it to happen). If in the process I can help you guys in any way I will, if you don't like an old sailors bluff way of talking thats your problem!

Finally as an aside, the Americans also had a little war going on in much the same same part of the world for much the same sort of thing (place called Viet Nam) they lost, we won - this is not boasting just to let those guys know they nearly won we nearly lost but the important thing was it was a war against terror and agression! IT is POSSIBLE to win! It takes time and guts and hearts and minds is all!

[longliner45]

didnt lose,,,,,,just left,longliner

[Roly]

just left,longliner

Better than pushing water uphill with a rake, huh!

As much as I thank the US for not speaking Japanese right now I think their
foreign policy is laden with hyprocracy and unrealistic ideals. Hell, whats new.The jungle aint changed much.

[Figgy]

ARUGH! Why politics? We know most of the world doesnt agree with us, hell we don't agree with us, but I personally come to this site to get away from it. I'll stay away from this thread tho'. Thanks for lettin' me vent:)
Edit: SOME of us don't agree with us

[longliner45]

yea our foriegn policy sucks, our leadership sucks , our immigration policy sucks ,,,but I am still a free man,,,,,,longliner

[safewalrus]

Longliner you'd be a free man in jail, it's the way you are man! Nobody but nobody f***s with longliner!

asd to the other foreign thing have it your way buddy! hey you did better than the French! And us Brits, even wirh the help of the Japanese didn't really want it (neither do the Chinese from what I can make out - there goes my final five points I guess! best let Charlie keep it!)

[Vega]

(about Vietnam)didnt lose,,,,,,just left,longliner

ARUGH! ... hell we don't agree with us, .. SOME of us don't agree with us

:confused: :confused: :confused: :p

[longliner45]

dont worry walrus , you can have some of my points.we' will all go down together!

[Wellydeckhand]

Walrus................. I like people that contribute to the war efford that free us from speaking japaness also in Indonesia. We are greatful not to mentioned the way u have changed in the view of our nation.

Indonesia is young from the date of our merdeka! alot of mental attitude are not yet settle. Give time and trust as we are getting professional everyday. With the help of the world this can be hasten to make a better world to like in.

I am not advertising for miss beauty contest but just my simple view of Indonesian wanting to be professional.

WellyLikeIndonesia:)

[longliner45]

never thought Id ask;but welly can I have some points?

[Figgy]

Hey Longliner, I'm still at 10, no one hates me yet(!) so you can have some of mine. :)

[Jeff]

<Posted edited: thank you.>

(I simply asked that people not modify others usernames as a form of namecalling/insult... not only is it against the rules, but you can also get a moderator to waste their time with a copy and paste and that makes them angry ;))

[DanishBagger]

Sorry about that. I'll delete it instantly.

Deleted

[and I much apologise, will try not to do that in the future :D ]

[Wellydeckhand]

Longliner,

I got this when i surpose to give u point:

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to longliner45 again.

Dont know what that is? I think I cant give anybody any point anymore.

[Mayfly]

This is wellydeckhand signing off the MAYFLY resgister.


I always like the story of MAYFLY, They hatch , grow , loved , mate and die in a space of one day but live a fullness of a human life. This show the proverb: It is better to lived once than never to lived at all.................................BYE from Mayfly

MayFly

_________________________________________________________________

I will miss and love you all forever..........

[Jeff]

Longliner,

I got this when i surpose to give u point:

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to longliner45 again.

Dont know what that is? I think I cant give anybody any point anymore.This is to prevent one person from repeatedly giving the same other reputation points again. It is meant to prevent cliques from giving eachother reputation points back and forth and back and forth. It means that if you have a high (or low) reputation value, that opinion has been expressed by a large cross section of the forum membership, not by one or two people only.

[safewalrus]

the poor simple Walrus is confused! I don't give points, I don't take points, I don't want points - they seem to me to be a complete waste of time -either you agree with some one and tell him or you don't and tell him! If he asks for help or tells you he's about to do something foolish that could hurt someone you tell him, if you have to be forceful in the telling you are!

That's me; take it or leave it!

this forum is getting heavy does nobody talk about boats (whatever they are?) anymore; I'm too scared too sad maybe I'll follow the others and leave permanently, don't want to but you people are becoming bloody depressing since tanned a*** or whatever his name is shot his mouth off!

[DanishBagger]

the poor simple Walrus is confused! I don't give points, I don't take points, I don't want points - they seem to me to be a complete waste of time -either you agree with some one and tell him or you don't and tell him! If he asks for help or tells you he's about to do something foolish that could hurt someone you tell him, if you have to be forceful in the telling you are!

That's me; take it or leave it!

this forum is getting heavy does nobody talk about boats (whatever they are?) anymore; I'm too scared too sad maybe I'll follow the others and leave permanently, don't want to but you people are becoming bloody depressing [ ... ]

Cheer up, Wally, there are plenty of people here talking about boats - it's just that we are caught up in this at the moment, so it seems like this is a huge percentage of what is going on here (to us).

If you click on the "Unread posts" in the top right corner, you will see an enormous amount of posts in bold.

I started a small thread on rain, because it began raining, thunder clouds were huge, the thunder rolling, and that cheered me up. Go grab yourself a cup of coffee, and read through all those threads in bold - all boat-talk, it will cheer you up :)

[safewalrus]

Thanks 'Bagger, Actually I got onto your one on rain - made a nice pleasant change but, can't quite figure your desire for bad weather (too many bumpy nights perhaps - yeah OK it's nice when it stops but surely if yo ucan be in port when it starts! but each to their own I guess!

[Roly]

Hey, Walrus you are one of the richer part of the tapestry that frequents here. More power to the place! I'm just too PC and it annoys me. I not going to pull a post in future that may mildly offend. To hell with it. If I get booted off, too bad.I like your spade is a spade attitude. If people don't like it they can stop reading. As for points-don't care either way.

[Guillermo]

My cluttering contribution to idiot posts:
For those posters looking for a place where to discharge their anger:
http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewforum.php?f=9 :p

[Wellydeckhand]

That is really sick........... do not apply to be the forum new shrink.....:)

[DanishBagger]

My cluttering contribution to idiot posts:
For those posters looking for a place where to discharge their anger:
http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewforum.php?f=9 :p


Yikes!!

Man, that is some place :!:

[Figgy]

For those posters looking for a place where to discharge their anger:
Well, that was about depressing. 5:30 in the morning and I get to read that! How do you know about that site Guillermo, does your wife beat you? :)

[Guillermo]

Well, that was about depressing. 5:30 in the morning and I get to read that! How do you know about that site Guillermo, does your wife beat you? :)
Not at 5:30 in the morning....:D

[Figgy]

Not at 5:30 in the morning....:D
HAHA! Thats funny!
Well I'm glad this thread lightened up a bit. Maby it'll die soon. I'm tired of us going back and forth like this.

[Roly]

Yeah,good one guil. wish mine would,but not at 5.30!

[Figgy]

wish mine would,but not at 5.30!
Beat you!?! Like it rough do we? Your a sadistic man Roly:)

[Roly]

Sadistic? nope! A bit of rough is alright......tests your mettle.

Don't get me wrong,I'm not into putting my balls in a vice, unless maybe, if there was something pretty on the other end........


Hmmm, I wonder how long it will take PC Pete to axe this one?

[Figgy]

I'm surprised it lasted this long! More shocking is is that nobody else chimed in.

[Roly]

Obviously,just an idiot Thread.:p
Ignore it and it will go away.

[mariner 40]

We all have the ability to pass on any subject we don't want to read. I like reading all the shit, good and bad. Cheap entertainment!!!

[safewalrus]

Hey Mariner nothing cheap in this one nearly cost us the war, and lost a lot of good 'forumers' (is there such a word? maybe not in English but try Americun English - like wot she is spoke and there maybe) But thanks for the support - we needed it! and some of us still do!!!:p

[Toot]

Another idiot poster here!


Now if you'll excuse me, I am off to start a new thread... :)

[safewalrus]

Well root Toot Toot,

Tell me what it is us idgits got to stick together!:rolleyes:

[Toot]

Heya Walrus!

I dunno. I've posted many silly posts. And a few genuine ones. :)

What disturbs me though are these threads with the title of "HELP!!!!" 95% of them, I am unable to provide any guidance thereto and, what's more, I have little interest in reading about them. I could, perhaps, choose to enjoy these threads in a moment of schadenfreude, but I fail to see why I couldn't get the same satisfaction from the thread even if I did know its topic. I can't imagine how much collective expertise is wasted by these posts which don't get into any specifics in the title. It'd at least be nice to know what I'm clicking on before I click on it.

My personal favorite was the guy who posts "Another Help Question!" Apparently, he wants to mate an upper with a lower...

But he didn't give any more specifics. My initial assumption was that he was trying to mate an upper-lands animal, like one that lives in the mountains, with a lower-lands animal, such as one that lives in a prairie. I assumed he was trying to mate an upper-lands tiger with a lower-lands gorilla. Naturally, I thought this was quite silly. Obviously, an upper-lands tiger cannot be mated with a lower-lands gorilla, regardless of what type of RTV you are using. But since the guy seemed in dire straights, I was tempted to suggest that some mood lighting and some romantic music might help his situation. It turns out though, that his question had NOTHING to do with mating different species. He actually had a question about outdrives. Who knew? I keep thinking though, it's a good thing I didn't suggest the mood lighting and romantic music- talk about making a fool of yourself!

Regardless, even in normal "Help!" threads, a number of people certainly click on the links wondering whether their knowledge of design, composites, wood, steel, aluminum, engines, propellers, jet drives, electronics, fasteners, repair, restoration, canvas, tyvek, or lexan might be useful... only to find out that the poster is actually interested in the mating of gorillas and tigers- a topic they know nothing about and for which they can be of no assistance. :confused:

It just seems to me to be a waste of everyone's time.

[SeaSpark]

What is a tyvek and does it mate with anything?

[Toot]

What is a tyvek and does it mate with anything?

It's the absolute choicest sail material... for rednecks. So I guess it might mate with its second cousin or something.

What is tyvek? (click here) (http://www.tyvek.com/whatistyvek.htm)

[safewalrus]

Tyvek - yeah, tis a cheap imitation canvas that looks cheap, shoddy and generally crap! It has it's good points tho' as a cheap, shoddy imitation canvas!! You try getting hold of the real stuff these days!

A good 'mate' wouldn't go anywhere near the stuff - they too are hard to find as well!

[Figgy]

What disturbs me though are these threads with the title of "HELP!!!!" 95% of them, I am unable to provide any guidance
95% of the time I can guess the posters location.
Now I hate the fifteen question marks in the subject, like it shows urgency.
Its thier style.
-Figgy

[Toot]

Oh.. and for the record... before I get kicked out for being dumb, I will say in my defense that I do indeed read 2000% more than I post.. so I may be pretty dumb about a lot of stuff... but I'm working hard at it! :)

I mostly just post to be silly (in the appropriate threads for such silliness) or else when I think I have something of slight tangential value to add... it's really just so you all know I'm here and reading... I don't want you all going around thinkin I forgot about you or somethin'. ;)

Cheers!

Ben

[longliner45]

we are all here to learn, what we know we share,,,,,,,,longliner

[Roly]

Tyvek canvas? Never heard of it.
Tyvek is good sh#t as building paper goes.
Staples don't pull thru it,its pretty tuff and doen't blow off.
Damned pricey tho.....for construction paper...and dont use on a roof.
Bloody dangerous when wet. (Slippery)

[Ari]

Tyvek can tear of quite easily compared to cloth.Tyvek that I'am used to are for disposable coverall/boiler suit.It do give very good protection againts dust and particles though.Very light material.

[Frosty]

Do you not think that some threads are so outragious that they must be non genuine? The guy that wanted to build a submarine comes to mind. I think that some are people tring to participate but dont have a genuine question so --hey make one up!!, what they may not realise is that you can tell .The question is just so badly written ( maybe on purpose to disguise its intent). I appreciate that if you dont know then you dont know, but some questions --Oh boy. Is it just me or does any one else think this.

I agree with the multiple question marks, Its like kinda demanding an answer to the issue now.

[Toot]

Do you not think that some threads are so outragious that they must be non genuine? The guy that wanted to build a submarine comes to mind. I think that some are people tring to participate but dont have a genuine question so --hey make one up!!, what they may not realise is that you can tell .The question is just so badly written ( maybe on purpose to disguise its intent). I appreciate that if you dont know then you dont know, but some questions --Oh boy. Is it just me or does any one else think this.

I agree with the multiple question marks, Its like kinda demanding an answer to the issue now.

Yes... multiple question marks should only be used when you have been working outside on your boat for a few hours, your up to your armpits with grease, grime, and gunk, you have 30 minutes of sunlight left, you've got a trip planned for the boat in the morning, and you can't remember some little piece of information that is critical for getting the darned thing back together... Otherwise, it's just rude...



And no, I don't think people make up questions. What I think they do is decide they are too lazy to do their own research before creating a thread. It's almost as if these people have never even heard of Google... which then makes me wonder how they even found this place in the first place. Instead of googling and finding out for themselves, they somehow miraculously stumble upon boatdesign.net and decide that it's akin to a magic 8-ball or the Oracle at Delphi or something and they decide to start asking questions to make all of us trained monkeys type responses. I think it's an entertainment sort of thing.

If I recall the sub guy correctly, he asked if anyone was building one. I could easily imagine that he had actually done a bit of research on the matter and was unable to come up with a link or a list of names of builders. I doubt there's a forum for such things... so I think he was just curious how rare of an endeavor it was and was mining for information. Personally, I found that discussion to be quite educational and amusing.

[Frosty]

Yes I agree --I should have mentioned that, yes some people think of the Forum as a free workshop manual, and do none or very little investigation to see if there topic is, or has been already discussed, which is very often the case!!!. I am sometimes confused at people with what appears to be fairly expensive boats, yet ask the forum questions that could easily be answerd by the local Merc dealer over the phone.

I still think some questions are fabricated though,--kinda testing out the 'experts'. But the 'experts' know it and refuse to bite. Bit like a fish checking out a dodgy lure.

[Figgy]

I still think some questions are fabricated though,--kinda testing out the 'experts'. But the 'experts' know it and refuse to bite. Bit like a fish checking out a dodgy lure.
I agree, they're just looking to get a reaction out of people. But it can be amusing when people DO bite.
The submarine thread still brings a smile to my face :)

[Poida]

Probably the answer to every question that is asked on this forum could be sourced elsewhere and like myself Google is where I found this forum.

It must be frustrating when people find this forum for the first time and ask a question that has been asked before, but I as well as I'm sure others are thankfull for the kindnest and patience that other members have exhibited in helping out.

Poida

[Figgy]

a question that has been asked before

Thats the point, right there. Search it. I dont think you even have to register to search the fourms. Now granted, I've been told to search stuff, even after I did and couldnt find the answer I was looking for, but some people don't even try.

[hansp77]

Probably the answer to every question that is asked on this forum could be sourced elsewhere and like myself Google is where I found this forum.

It must be frustrating when people find this forum for the first time and ask a question that has been asked before, but I as well as I'm sure others are thankfull for the kindnest and patience that other members have exhibited in helping out.

Poida

I agree,
the kindness, generosity and patience of the members here is what has kept me here.

I have tried to like other places, like the wooden boat forum, but seriously, it seems like over there if someone asks a newbie question about something like epoxy, or god-forbid CPES, they might get accused of being a troll first, and then flipped off by some brief recomendation to buy a book, or search the forum. :( These same people who have just dished out this advice will probably then launch straight back into hundreds of posts-long threads rehashing the same old left/right, religious/athiest, war/peace, environmentalist/technocrat arguments. What about boats?

I come here to learn about and share what little I know about boats and boat design and building/restoration. And here, in the meantime, the company is pretty damn good too. I used to be a little concerned about the general need for a politically correct climate (or political abstension)- but after seeing what the other options are, I wouldn't change a thing.

I now go to somewhere like the WBF to view or participate in some political squabbling, vent a little steam about such, or just see who is currently insulting who!:P

I don't know about other people, but I have never had the greatest luck with searching within the forums. Sure I find a lot of good interesting stuff when I try, and generally I learn alot in the process, but what I learn is usually not the same thing that i was looking for:confused: .
I even think that i've had better luck searching for things on this forum from google, than I have from searching for from this search feature:D (no insult intended Jeff:eek: )

And whats all this about multiple punctuation marks??????

I don't know what you are talking about.......!!!,,&*.:D:p :p

[Frosty]

The multipe punctuation marks are as you say extremely annoying but-- not nearly as annoying as those bloody smileys.

What on earth could posses a grown man to put into his work little smiling faces of various expressions. Its a bit like those people that say yeah at the end of every sentence, constanty needing veryfication that thier words are being understood.

Hi Hansp -- How are you today?

[Roly]

:D Hey, lighten up Jack!!!!:idea: Long time dead mate.:D :confused: :idea:

OK, guilty on all counts to some degree.
I guess I use the forum for bouncing ideas off for my project;And a little light relief. I have had some advice
that tallied with what I wanted to do, so I took it.:D
Basically, we go our own way in the end-for better or worse!
I generally don't read more than a couple of lines of dubious posts, unless
after mischief.


Hey hans hows the work comin along?
Too true about the WBF. A haughty lot in main but also some good sorts lurking.
A lot friendlier here as you say.
I was referred here by one of the older timers for being too keen on the "frozen snot."

[hansp77]

Hey Jack,
I am OK today- buggereed after a long week of study and work- and after my first sleep in for a while, just trying to get my self together to start on some research.

That is funny what you say about the smiley things.

I have a particular personal and professional appreciation for the written word.
It was mainly this reason why at first I Never Ever used those little faces and symbols.

I resisted.

Then it was like an infection. An addiction.
I used it once, and slowly I degraded from a 'grown man' to a pathetic hollowed out shell of a smiley winky big grin rolleyes addict.
In my normal emails to freinds and collegues I would reach and grasp for these same familiar faces... faces that had abandoned me.. a stumbling despereate addict.
how could I express my sarcasm and well meaning humour without little winky?
When my writings for my study would take me over my countries sorry indigenous affairs, or ecological concerns- my words felt hollow, unless blessed with a frowny yellow face or two, and maybe even an explanation sign.
Even being lost and confused, would mean nothing to me, and present no path forward, unless I could invoke and stare into the sacred eyes of dear old confused question mark head.


Stay clean Jack-
these bloody smileys are not childs play-
they have reduced the ravings of more than one hopeless addict to nothing but a chain of yellow shapes, interspersed with a few random remianing relics of the mother language, and human culture.

Big Grin, Big Grin, Big Grin, Winky.

Hey Rolly,
Work is coming along pretty slow at the moment. We are having a little break from our secondary carreers as boat builders...
Once it warms up a little, as it currently is starting to down here, my girlfriend and I will be spending a lot more time out on the boat finishing off things. (and even hopefully sailing one day!)
Our focus has been on cleaning up the mess our lives became after dropping everything other than boat restoration for four months or so... Financially, academically and practically- we have decided it is time to install a dishwasher, buy a new vacuum (that works) and replace our clothes washing machine that broke down just after we bought the boat- the combination of things that made our lives as boat builders that much more difficult...
My boat efforts of late have been focussing upon ironing out the little wrinkles in the production of actually getting out to our mooring. Trying to power our inflatable by something other than my poor attempts at rowing...
Or maybe building or buying a tender to tie up under the jetty.


How is your work coming along?
Making much progress?

Hans.

[Frosty]

I hate the little smilies:mad: especially this one:p . No I will continue to resist the temptation.:rolleyes:

[Roly]

Hans,
We managed to glass the hull 8wks ago.(omigod-is it that long ago)
But since then have been too busy at work.
Just owning a boat is a major commitment let alone rebuilding. As you well know! Have multiple work projects on the go and need time to study as well.
Bills don't stop either.
All the best,
Roly

[Ari]

My brother in law went bottom fishing with rod and line last night..3 of them.. no luck with those big garouper or rays..cast a floating drift net for small fish..ahh..a few kg of fresh fish for lunch and dinner today..the beauty of having a boat..;)a friend just bought the boat a few days ago (fibre glass) to replace his 'write off ' wooden boat.

[Toot]

I just caught a mouse in my house. The bugger was smarter than I am!

Saw him by a stairwell, chased him into a closet and set out all I had- a full armada of sticky traps. Heard nothing for a half an hour or so.

Next, thing I know, he's scampering past my feet as I read these here forums at the bottom of the stairs. I chase him into a little nook and set the traps ALL over the nook, taking up every last square inch of space and then I just wait.....

I see him four or five times. Each time he walks up to the sticky trap, sniffs its edge, and then walks away. Obviously, he's seen these before. But I figure he'll soon get impatient and, indeed, finally after an hour or so, I hear some commotion and I've got him. I decide to let him suffer for a few minutes. Actually those sticky traps aren't always reliable and I wanted to let him squirm for a bit to get nice and stuck. The only sticky traps that are worth a damn are the ones made in Mexico. You can tell they are good because they are completely devoid of any English on the package. You just go into a mexican grocery store and look for the package with the mouse/rat on the front with Xed out eyes. So I come back, not two minutes later, and he's escaped! But not from one of the Mexican traps, from one of the cheap imitation American ones that I bought at about 2am one night last year when I last discovered such a problem. In this case, I've got to say, don't buy American! I think the Mexican ones must use some sort of cyanide or something. Whatever it is, they work pretty well when you can't get out to a hardware store to buy the real snappy kind. Anyway, I knew he escaped.

An hour later, I see him in the basement.

So I go down to the basement and rummage around. I know I've got one regular spring-wire trap down there somewhere... looking looking looking. I find it. Put it down near the stairwell with a little dab of peanut butter on it- forget the cheese and stuff. Mice like peanut butter and it's cheap and you don't need to cut off a slice of tasty cheese for an unwelcome pest. There's no food down there, so he's sure to try to head for the stairs when he gets hungry.

And 10 minutes later..... SNAP! Got him cold. Dead.

A very large (full city block) old-folks home is being torn down a few blocks away. I think that's what's causing the problem. I can't wait until I'm old and senile enough not to notice these things running around my house. Hope there aren't any more.

[Frosty]

An exellent and informative post.
We catch mice a lot, but we make our own sticky thingys from a tin of gooie stuff called rat glue ( appropriate) man this stuff is -is well-- sticky. You can buy it from the supermarket in a tin, it looks like grease but if you stick your screw driver in you can pick up the tin. We always catch em. The trouble is there is always a serious discussion in front of the screemin mouse as to who is going to kill it. As I am the man around the house ( and I have my wifes permission to say this) I had to do it,-- it sickens me,, I feel sad all day.
I had one once and I thought that I would let him go as he wasnt really stuck so securely. I pulled his back side up with his tail and tried to pull him off. Jeees his skin on his tail came off in my hand, he was left with a bloody tail, I guess that must have hurt.

[Toot]

What I believe happened based on the forensics is that there is a slight gap between the nook where I had him stuck and some wood paneling leading down another flight of stairs and I believe he dragged himself over to that gap and pulled himself down off the trap, as the trap was left laying over the slight gap and I heard him rummaging around down in there.

Catching them doesn't make me sad. I just get pissed off. It's just a "survival" mechanism I have... whenever I don't like coping with stuff like that, I get angry. It used to be, when I was young, everytime I saw blood, I would get light-headed and start to pass out, but then as I got older and "had" to deal with such things as a "grown up", I realized that the only way to keep myself from going weak-in-the-knees was to get upset. So now, whenever I cut myself or see blood on somebody else, I will fly into something like a mini-rage... not really directed at other people, but rather at the situation. It is definitely a more effective instinct than than passing out. LOL What's more, this "anger" is always very effective at making me act appropriately and be in control of the situation. I imagine I could just desensitize myself altogether, but I don't encounter the situations enough to think the effort worth it.

Anyway, the same thing happens when I see a mouse in the house- I get pissed off. I mean, my blood pressure REALLY shoots up. But hell, what do I care? It's the thrill of the hunt! ;)

Once caught, I usually toss them into a plastic bag, take them outside, and drop a brick on them- quick and painless. But this time, I lucked out. The snap-trap got him square in the skull.



Anyway, I like rodents when they aren't disease-infested or invading my home without an invitation. I have a chinchilla and he's a cool little highly-socialized critter and I gotta say that mice out in the wild are rather cute little critters. :)

[safewalrus]

And that's why American rat and mice traps are so bloody useless! Any nation where the mouse always wins against the cat has really got a problem! :mad:

Personally I like the cute little buggers (mice I mean), very entertaining ;) and of course rats make great survival food -when you can catch 'em! Bit of fricasee'd rat goes down well with a bowl of tepid rainwater! :cool: Far more tastier than a worm omelette or fried spider (but snake, now there's living eh Ari) yeah Jack!:p :p :p

[Poida]

Heay Toot you'd make a great ambulance driver.

Screaming and yelling at the poor guy trapped in the car.

Long as it helps you cope.

[Toot]

Heay Toot you'd make a great ambulance driver.

Screaming and yelling at the poor guy trapped in the car.

Long as it helps you cope.

I used to be a lawyer. The more serious I got, the less other attorneys wanted to get in my way. Seemed to work well there.

It's all a matter of picking the profession that best suits you. ;)

[marshmat]

Used to not like the rats so much. Not when they were a foot long and lived under my shed. Then the girlfriend bought a couple as pets. They're actually kind of fun now so long as they don't eat anything expensive.
As for the pest variety, simply moving the birdseed and dog kibble to sealed bins pretty much solved that. They're only interested if there's free food.
My gosh we're getting off topic.

[Toot]

There was a topic?

Where?

[Frosty]

Jungle rats,-- My missuses dad eats em,- well he used to when he was alive. RIP,-- it wasnt the rats that killed him, too many boiled eggs apparantly.
Yes jungle rats, looks similar to the shit sucking variety but not. Quite nice really, I dont mean to cuddle I mean to eat.
Snakes too, he was quite good at serving up a nice snake stew. I am not sure if the variety of snake mattered that much. I dont suppose it would really, I mean you wouldnt call over the waiter and say " excuse me whats the snake of the day'.
Theres a nice little snake resteraunt in Wanchi in Honk Kong. They will kill and skin it in front of you, boy it really wiggles and skuirms when he rips the skin of it. How do they kill it? The guy bites its head of with his teeth,--I kid you not, an evil looking guy with blood and snot all down the front of his shirt. Well I guess you would!!

Oh by the way they still wriggle and skirm even with the head off, A snake doesnt die till the sun goes down.

I just thought Ide mention that i found a fabulous Python in a stream a while back. It was trapped in a net that some idiot had discarded ( probably to catch Pythons) any way he was about 8 foot at least and a bit of a handfull to get the net from his head. He was'nt too friendly as he was wild. He was greatfull for the rescue though, he went straight back into the stream and swam off.
Mmmm im getting hungry, Mc Donalds opens at 10am!!

[westlawn5554X]

Actually, for rats the field varity is more delicious and clean do try it, I did. The last time I was in Thailand I did try the snake, the non poisonous is plain do try the venom type, the poison add blood and some local moonshine does make you warm and fuzzy. I do enjoy all the stuff you can get legally in third world.

Dog, cat, lizard, ..... Properly cook of course. I never did try human:) which I think is highly illegal LOL.

[Poida]

Heay Toot
What happened to that chick you were going to marry that was going to buy you a boat?

[Toot]

Heay Toot
What happened to that chick you were going to marry that was going to buy you a boat?


She didn't respond to my PM's. :mad:

So I guess I'm just stuck with my current girlfriend... not that I'm complaining. :)

[Roly]

Highly commendable volley of posts one and all! Absolutely pertinent.
Although, all the talk of bbq'd wild fodder has set my irritable bowel off.

Speaking of skinned tails. Our puddy tat came in one day dragging vestiges of its tail. A few vertibrae joined with pinky alien looking matter and wispy white tentrails sprouting out the end.I instantly wanted to put it out of its misery, but my missus made me take it to the vet and turn it into a manx.
Still makes me wince. Doesn't seem to have affected the cat.
Guess it not as painful as it looks.

Anybody rememeber Wal's "dog".Well we have a dead ringer of dog. Looks like dog, smells like dog,smiles like dog when lickin' Wal's fresh hung kill. (When Wal's asleep.) Have I digressed yet?

No, 'course not. Anyhow some useless cretin left this dog, our dog poppy,
"down the beach. Just abandoned. What a beauty dog, jeez, what a cretin.
Have I digressed yet?

We had just finished xmas dinner (last christmas) and were in the swing of things.My missus hollered with a tone reminscient of a mother with a mortally wounded offspring. (She was playing stick with the dog out back)
We were on the front deck laxing out,Poppy bolts up the stairs spewing blood like a fire hose out her mouth in big pulsating gushes all over the relly's and friends assembled.She weaves her way thru the group like its her last dash Immediately I figger if we dont stop that gusher shes a gonner.She is a border collie, with a touch of "mad as a meat axe" setter in her, even when shes calm. She has pure terror in her eyes, that wide eyed look. I crash tackle her, jamb her up against the wall and lock her mouth shut to try and block the spurter.
Shes passes out in my arms and her eyes roll back.I sayes "Poppy dont do this poppy you silly mutt", with tears streaming.
One very fast emergency vet trip, a tranfusion, and poppy is here today.
Damned fine bit of engineering, a heart, even with not much blood.
Bad timing poppy.

BTW....we found that tail (pelt) in a pile of lumber under the house. Cat must have bolted along the stack & caught its tail between to pieces in a wedge
and decided it would rather lose it than be devoured my the unknown monster lurking under the pile.
Dangerous place our yard.
Idiot enuf?

[djwkd]

Technically,yuor complaining about threads that have nothing to do with boat design,but hey,this is the first ive found!

[Roly]

Could you be more specific?

[djwkd]

Me?no,not really.

[djwkd]

There was a topic?

Where?
are we off topic yet?



frade so!were definately off-topic!

[Gypsie]

I aggree with Johnathan Cole, quote: "One man's idiocy is another's entertainment" unquote, lighten up and have a laugh. The serous threads are there and providing a wonderful oportunity for us all in the business of boats and design and more.........

[westlawn5554X]

I think this is an irrelevant and idiotic thread... there is no idiot and no silly thread have been found and complaint so far... the forum is a safe and new nurtured space to be in, lets lock this thread ?

[longliner45]

ok westlawn ,,,lock on and beam me up,,,,,,,,,,

[Bergalia]

. there is no idiot and no silly thread have been found and complaint so far...

Well I think there should be an Idiot thread...where else will I get my irrelevant and silly comments posted.....:(

[Frosty]

..where else will I get my irrelevant and silly comments posted.....:(

Why on the pirate thread of course.

I like to 'have a play' on these 'fun threads' I think it helps to lighten up a bit and are just as much fun and is more like reall life.

You gotta have a laugh now and then, although I know some people dont and cant, everything is so serious to these people and any attempt at fun is anoying to them.

Thats a shame.

I am not really sure what the neg points do. Psycoligically I think they do nothing but irritate and possibly deter further posting.

I really dont see them as being any use for anything else.

There are some highy trained people here who have many years of experience. I think it shows a lack of respect to have to accept an anonimous neg point by some one that just didnt understand or know whats going on---basically in thier ignorance-- dis- agree.

It will hardly encourage further posting from the experts.

It might be the reason that expert advice seams to be drying up a little on this forum. But it could just be my imagination.

I have in the past given neg points for foolish and petty posts, but always regreted it, unfortunately the soft ware of the forum will not allow me do put things right.

I also admit to being suscpetable to moods as will others, making my decision for neg reps inconsistent and un reliable.

What I am trying to say is "I dont like the rep points at all"

[longliner45]

yes.. there is serious threads that have meaning,,and tecknical substance ,,and then there is the fun or not so seriousthreads ,,those of us who have been here for awhile know the differance,,this site lets us blow off steem ,,it lets us gather knowledge,,,,we settle disputes ,or differance of opinion,,,I learn something everytime I log on ,,sorry for those that cant ,,,,,,,by the way points mean nothing to me,,so take mine if it gives you some pleasure,,but I will say this if you do ,,have the courtisy to tell me who you are and why,,,,so I will have the chance to better myself ,,,,,I dont like the points system ,,but if we were required to revele ourselfs ,,I think it would be better ,,,and also I always sign my name to everything anyway ,,,,longliner

[MikeJohns]

Why on the pirate thread of course.

I like to 'have a play' on these 'fun threads' I think it helps to lighten up a bit and are just as much fun and is more like reall life.

You gotta have a laugh now and then, although I know some people dont and cant, everything is so serious to these people and any attempt at fun is anoying to them.

Thats a shame.

I am not really sure what the neg points do. Psycoligically I think they do nothing but irritate and possibly deter further posting.

I really dont see them as being any use for anything else.

There are some highy trained people here who have many years of experience. I think it shows a lack of respect to have to accept an anonimous neg point by some one that just didnt understand or know whats going on---basically in thier ignorance-- dis- agree.

It will hardly encourage further posting from the experts.
............................

What I am trying to say is "I dont like the rep points at all"


I agree absolutely, look at my post #18 in the following http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?p=140734#post140734

Not only was I given neg feedback (4 points off) but was also called a Pratt with no explanation of what upset the detractor.

I reworded my post in case there was something offensive in the way I had written it but I really think it is just payback for daring to disagree with someone on another topic in the past.

That sort of behavior is at best churlish and certainly drives away any urge to contribute.

Perhaps the negatives should only be available for breaches of the forum rules rather than a way of punishing different opinions.

I suppose removal of anonymity would do the trick.




Jack ..........I have PM ed you on a different topic
cheers

[safewalrus]

From my simple viewpoint there are two parts to this forum - the serious stuff and the tounge in cheek not so serious stuff! this section is the latter! where as Jack Bergalia and others quite rightly say lets lighten up and have some fun!

It's quite simple if you want to be serious thre's a whole forum above to be serious - if you want to let of steam this is the section! Whilst the point system may be good in the other sections THIS section should NOT be subject to the point system good or bad!

"hey jack I think that idea is crap! 'Well mike tough thats the way I see it"

Surely we all at some stage have a difference of opinion and somebody gets up our nose - so instead of secretly taking away somebodies points because he doesn't think your way why not have a 'pop' at him online, in the open! Tell him ehy you think he's an idiot! If he's a man (or woman) he'll take it and give you reasons why!! If he's a wimp or little girl he she or it shouldn't be talking to the big boys so go back to your comic book heros -

as the old saying goes "if you can't stand the heat get outa the kitchen"

Mike - the Walrus

[Bergalia]

Sagely put Walrus. Obviously gained from experience at sea. (How's the knees, by the way?). When disagreements arose among my crew (several ex-residents of HM's barred hostels) on any subject of firmly held views - perhaps the validity of Okam's Razor, or Proust's thoughts on immortality, the adversaries would step out on deck and debate the points 'privately.'
Usually concluded a head butt, however leaving their colleague's 'point system' intact. :p

[MikeJohns]

...............................THIS section should NOT be subject to the point system good or bad!

"hey jack I think that idea is crap! 'Well mike tough thats the way I see it"

Surely we all at some stage have a difference of opinion and somebody gets up our nose - so instead of secretly taking away somebodies points because he doesn't think your way why not have a 'pop' at him online, in the open! Tell him ehy you think he's an idiot! If he's a man (or woman) he'll take it and give you reasons why!! If he's a wimp or little girl he she or it shouldn't be talking to the big boys so go back to your comic book heros -

as the old saying goes "if you can't stand the heat get outa the kitchen"

Mike - the Walrus

Er Mike I think you are actually agreeing here aren't you? We are all complaining whinging and whining about the points system.;)

The point that Jack was making in his last post (unless i'm very mistaken) is pretty similar to what you are saying.

I am agreeing with Jack that the points system is questionable in its ability to achieve anything. Particularly if it's being used for example as I just experienced as a vehicle for insults with complete anonymity and frankly such behaviour will put people off.

If the points were not anonymous you would at least have the right of reply!


Cheers

[Frosty]

I will go along with that,--abandon the anonimity and neg points will disapear overnight.

If a confontation was necessary in so much that an explanation of the neg points was required. People would not give neg points, therefore their reason for doing so would not be that strong.

If one is really serious about something deserving neg points then they should be equally as serious about explaining why.

I think Mike johns made a point about people giving neg points for a different post. This of course is mis-use of the system, but im sure it goes on.

It is imperative that a name be put to critisicm.

Its going agains human morals to be punished with out knowing why.

Or even worse --what for.

I dont hear one person saying "I like the neg points and I like them to be anonimous".

[Poida]

Er Jack, I like the neg points and I like them to be anonimous.

Is there something I can't see here.

Why is everybody worried about the points system?

Take all of my points, I don't care, I've only looked at them about twice since I have been on the forum.

Is there somethiong I don't know, when you reach a thousand points does the forum send you a thousand dollars? If so then I'll start worrying about them.

If you don't like negative points don't bloody look at them.

Poida

P.S. I will look at them tomorrow to see if I've lost all my points. lol

[Frosty]

Poida --I tried to give you some neg points but the computer wont let me. Apparantly -- I must have given you too many good points recently.

Waste of time really if you dont look. Youve got more than me any way.

Stupid scheme --dont bloody work half the time.

Yes I am criticising---constructive criticism.

You know who I am what I dont like and why--simple isnt it.

[safewalrus]

Precisely!

[charmc]

Precisely!

jack frost,

My hat is off to you. You have gotten Walrus to agree with you, and he did it using only a single, appropriate, and correctly spelled word! Amazing. :)

Walrus,

That you did so is equally amazing. My hat is off to you, also. :)


Now if only I could learn to use fewer words myself ...:p

[Frosty]

Walrus did what???

Hang on a minute I gotta check this out.

Wow that does appear to be true, Oh Oh I feel like a gotta throw up.

[charmc]

Walrus did what???

Hang on a minute I gotta check this out.

Wow that does appear to be true, Oh Oh I feel like a gotta throw up.

Wow, jack, you're so amazed you used mutiple question marks.:)

[Poida]

Do three question marks = one smiley?

[charmc]

The multipe punctuation marks are as you say extremely annoying but-- not nearly as annoying as those bloody smileys.


Apparently so, poida.

[Frosty]

Oh I hate it when people use multiple exclamation marks. What moron would do that???

But not as much as I hate smileys:p Jees I hate those silly little faces.

Dont you???

[charmc]

Oh I hate it when people use multiple exclamation marks. What moron would do that???

But not as much as I hate smileys:p Jees I hate those silly little faces.

Dont you???

Yes, I do!!!!! :)

[Frosty]

To get back to the points thing,

Charmc has got nearly twice as many pointa as I do.

That means that I have a little over half as many points as he does.

Taking into consideration that he has posted only a little more than 1/3rd of the postings I have made.

Does this mean that Charmc is nearly twice as smarter than I am?

Or am I nearly twice as dumb as he is.

Or is comments from Charmc considered to be nearly twice as likely to be true.

Or is it that nealry 1/3 of my postings are likely to be crap.

Should the post of a person with few points be disregarded and not worthy of consideration.

Just like to know what the points actually mean, especially to a new comer.

[Frosty]

Its very quiet round here!


I was rather looking forward to a reply from the post above.


I know its a difficult question but it should have an answer.

It was not a rhetorical question.

Should any one feel like responding --please leave the bit out about points encouraging disapline,--I already laughed at that one.

[PI Design]

I've only posted feedback a couple of times (both positive!), but didn't realise it was anonymous - so if you're wondering who the generous soul was, it was me. I quite like them on the whole, they give you some idea of who has something useful say (they’re not really relevant to the Open Discussion bit, are they?). They are just a bit of fun really, you can't take them too seriously (but its always nice when someone gives you some positive feedback - hint, hint). If you’re on here long enough you soon work out who your favourite posters are anyway. There are some people with more points than I think they deserve, and others with fewer - ut no systems perfect. Incoherent ramble over.

[PI Design]

BTW - how do you know how many points will be awarded/deducted?

[Jeff]

Points given depend on your own reputation, the length of time you've been a member of the forum, and the number of posts you've made.

[PI Design]

Ah, thanks Jeff. DO you get to give yourself more points as moderator?:cool: Just kidding, please don't dock me!:eek:

[Jeff]

Yes, if you ever see my rep at 999,999,999,999 you'll know the moderator snapped and went on a power trip ;)

Is it a perfect system? No, not even close.

But I think that it helps more than it hurts.
Surely we all at some stage have a difference of opinion and somebody gets up our nose - so instead of secretly taking away somebodies points because he doesn't think your way why not have a 'pop' at him online, in the open! Tell him why you think he's an idiot! If he's a man (or woman) he'll take it and give you reasons why!!
The problem comes when this breaks out into back-and-forth insulting and arguing. While somewhat entertaining, this becomes a huge distraction from the more interesting real discussion at hand. PMs or email are a good means for two members to work out arguments in private. But then, someone has to be a real jerk or post some hugely inaccurate advice for most people to step up and say "hey, you've gone too far." So the rep system was originally put in place to provide a means for the community as a whole to give some subtle feedback as to how a member is being received by the community as a whole. Perfect, no. But my opinion is still that it helps (me as moderator, and the quality of the forum overall) more than it hurts. Please don't get all bent out of shape because of one anonymous comment. If you get 10 or 20 negative comments, please take a step back and consider why. That is all I ask. And to everyone, please use the rep system for positive purposes more than negative.

[PI Design]

Wow, is that the max? I've got a long way to go.

[Bergalia]

Pssstttt - has anyone noticed that Jeff's got 140 odd points - and the rest of the members are stuck with double figures...Does that mean that all members are equal - but Jeff is more equal than most...:(

[charmc]

Is it a perfect system? No, not even close.

But I think that it helps more than it hurts.

But then, someone has to be a real jerk or post some hugely inaccurate advice for most people to step up and say "hey, you've gone too far." ...

Please don't get all bent out of shape because of one anonymous comment. If you get 10 or 20 negative comments, please take a step back and consider why. That is all I ask. And to everyone, please use the rep system for positive purposes more than negative.

Hi, Jeff,

I understand your point of view. However, there have been more frequent instances of late in which anonymous negative postings have dragged down the "rep" of people whom I've grown to respect for their opinions and helpful contributions. I have 2 suggestions you might consider:
1. Automatically include the username with all rep comments, positive and negative. I can't see any justification for anonymity, since it's not given anywhere else on the forum.
2. Change the language of the feedback choices to more accurately describe what they mean. I still believe that there are a significant number of forum users who think the 2 choices, "I approve" and "I disapprove" mean simply agreement or disagreement, and don't realize that the choices actually mean "I want this person's reputation in the forum to be increased" or "I want to reduce this person's reputation in the forum." Evidence for that comes from the reported language of some recent negative ratings, which indicated simply disagreement with the poster. I believe that the forum owner and/or moderator has an obligation to eliminate misunderstandings of the function of forum elements whenever possible. If it can be accomplished with some simple language changes, then the obligation becomes even greater.

Apart from that, this is an excellent forum. I enjoy discussing a variety of subjects with a group of intelligent and helpful people from around the globe; a group who will unfailingly give you no end of grief should you raise your own rating to even 999! :)

[charmc]

Does that mean that all members are equal - but Jeff is more equal than most...:(

Of course! Why take on the grief of being a forum moderator if you can't make yourself look reeeaaly good!:) :D

[Bergalia]

Originally Posted by Jeff (quote) Someone has to be a real jerk or post some hugely inaccurate advice for most people to step up and say "hey, you've gone too far."(end quote)

Jeff, Jeff sir...It was that awful Jack Frost who suggested patching that plastic canoe with bricks and mortar...And that spotty youth Lazey Jack put him up to it... and that rough boy Charmc stood back laughing sir...Shouldn't they lose points sir...shall I send them to your study sir....
No sir, Mr Jeff sir, Raggi was on the toilet at the time - that luxury one with built-in musak specially designed by Guillermo in for the new girl Wilma. Can we have their points sir....Please sir. Please and I'll bring a sparrow for your cat.... :P

Jeez - squabbling over points. Like a bunch of spoiled kids.
Oh, and Mr Jeff sir, can I remain anonymous....:(

[Frosty]

Again the computer would not let me give Berglia neg rep points for brown nosing like the head of brown nosing of Oxford university.( serious)

I tested it by trying to give neg points to Jeff,--it would have accepted it but I dare'nt do it.

I dont want to get banned.

Maybe I could do it anonimously, Naa ill;e bet he would know I did it.

Honestly Ive been trying to give neg points all day. I want to drag you all down to my level.

Oh I got some good points today --2 The "pointee" said good mind but cranky?? Ille go with that, cheers sir.

When I give good rep points its 11-- far too much.

Ok-- rep points--- a dollar each

[Frosty]

Errmm sorry to disturb again but there appears to be something wrong with my new post main page.

To get to 'Idiot posts cluttering up the forum' I have to search, every time.

It does not ever come up on most recent page.

My most recent page--ie posts today --even after refresh shows posts of 18 of May yet says they are from today.

Any ideas?

[longliner45]

jack I dont know if anyone can see this ,,must be some problem,,,,,but has anyone heard of the dino that indonisian fisherman caught? I tried to start a new thread (http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17459) but seems to fail ,,,,,,Longliner

[Jeff]

I'm not seeing an issue with either the New Posts (http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/search.php?do=getnew) or Most Recent - Today's Post (http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/search.php?do=getdaily)

(if you're the last poster in a given thread, that specific thread won't show on the new posts for you, but this does not sound like the issue you are describing.)

If this continues, please send a screenshot of your browser to webmaster (at) boatdesign.net

[Frosty]

Jeffs post above was posted at 11.27 it is now 12.25 GMT.

'Idiot posts' is not on my newpost main page, again I had to search for it.

I did however get an email notification.

Is there some kind of 'ignore' button that I might have accidentaly pressed.

No longliner I havent seen your post about "dino"

[Frosty]

After posting the above post --I scrolled to the top of the page and clicked 'most recent' and then todays.

Idiot posts as myself as the last poster should have been at the top of the page.

Well thats how it has worked for the last 5 years.

Its not a problem I can cope with it.

But I think its only an issue with 'idiot posts' but 'forum rules'doesnt come up iether.

Because its not coming up --I dont know what else isnt coming up!!

Dont wanna mis any good arguments!!