SailVessel headlights

[MikeJohns]

I am pondering fixed night illumination ahead of the vessel for the helmsman.
I have seen spotlights mounted on the spreaders of yachts but these illuminate the headsails and reduce the night vision, as do any fixed spotlights abaft the bow shining on any part of the vessel.
Seems to me to be advantageous for the night helmsman to be able to flick on a good fwd spotlight when confronted at night by a floating unidentifiable object ahead.
Are there any suitable robust waterproof headlights that could be designed into the pulpit? I have seen some fancy remote operated devices but think their life would be short in the bow of a sailing vessel at sea.
The higher the light the better, this would put a narrow beam light to good effect on the mast-top aimed at the water say 100m ahead of the vessel and oriented or baffled to avoid shining on the sails.
A handheld spot is useless since again it tends to blind the helm if used from the cockpit and requires another crewmate to go right forward with it. Since night sailing is often a solo watch a switched fixed light seems best.
Has anyone else looked at this issue.

[Chris Ostlind]

Any light except a dim red and certain wavelengths of blue/green are going to rob night vision. It doesn't matter if you don't have the helm illuminated by the spot light. Just turning it on will make you blind in the dark when it's doused.

Chris

[tansails]

Chris

Isn't the issue here that mike is saying is that you are blind on a dark night unless you have light? Night vision returns readily even when badly abused and a well mounted foreward light would be good for night vision!

I have run up onto uncharted fish farm enclosures in the mouth of a large wide estuary in a gale late at night when you could see nothing, black with driven spray blinding any attempt to peer around the windscreen. I often think a very strong fixed light projecting foreward would be a useful addition.

On my yacht one of the crew often gets sent fwd with a handheld spotlight, they inevitably shine the bloody thing on the sails deck, back at the steersman when he/she starts bellowing all this despite being told to shine only ahead of the yacht . Even the light on the pulpit rails blinds the steersman to the view beyond. As Mike says at night you are usually alone at the post. So I think this an idea I embrace with fervour.......Now how to do it please.

Sailing in the Southern ocean from NZ to campbell island in a storm we turned on all the overhead lights and could then see the waves that had been brutalising us so much, the difference psychologically was amazing and I would recommend it. Could still easily see an accompanying vessels lights in the distance.


Michael Bailey

[DGreenwood]

For entering harbors at night I have built a couple rigs for solo operation of a spot without blinding the helm.
I used a relatively inexpensive remote control spot called (I believe) a "GoLight".
With some modification to the base it can be built so it is removable. It requires only the power source as the controls are a battery operated remote. It is particularly effective on the forward side of a sailboat mast, as the mast obscures the blinding light from the helmsman and gives it some altitude for better illumination. I think I got them at West Marine.

[tom28571]

If you try navigating my creek at night during blue crab season, the value of a forward light is obvious. Night vision be damned, although it might come in handy when untangling your boat from a crab pot. I have relied on a crew on the bow with a light up to now, but am interested in such a bow light. I think I would favor a hand held unit temporarily set in a fixture on the bow as far forward as possible and with a switch at hand to the helm. A light with a beam broader than the usual spotlight would be best. Emergency lights intended for road repair on a vehicle might be good. I have one of those and will experiment with that.

Thanks for the boost mike.

[gonzo]

There are several lights build by a number of manufacturers. They range from fixed countersunk type to rail mounted with remote controllled.

[RHough]

I've been toying with the idea of mounting a pair of automotive fog lights in the hull. I've moved the sidelights from under the sheer to the pulpit so I have holes to fill anyway.

At only 5 knots I don't need a great range for the lights, just enough to help spot logs, crab trap makers etc.

I think the low angle, wide beam, and sharp cut off off a fog light would be a good choice. I might try mounting at an angle of about 5 deg, so they would be more effective when heeled.

There are so many logs in Vancouver waters, it makes sailing at night a bit nerve racking.

[yipster]

may be worth reading http://www.sarbc.org/nightvis.html :cool:

[safewalrus]

Starshell!!!

OK then, how's about a white 'very' light or flare (parachute?)

Goes up high, ahead and illuminates what you need to see, the area in front of the boat. Dies away slowly - OK not that slow! But it gives night vision chance to return. If the object is manned it warns them that somethings coming! and they'll maybe look out too! We all carry a few as per the rules don't we? Worth a thought, and a try!

Just don't do it in a river it will scare the sh*t out of the sheep! :D

[longliner45]

I think Im grasping this ; you want headlights or your boat?I dont like them because you can only see directly in front and must steer the boat to see an obstical.you dont like spotlights because you may need an extra man on deck!I work for a power co. we have remote control lights on our trucks ,you can mount one on the bow and operate it from the stearn ;and are very weather proof

[marshmat]

Mike, RHough: I put a pair of lamps on my boat last season for similar reasons (in my case, though, the floating logs are usually replaced by unlit pontoon party-barges). I have a pair of rubber-gasketted "docking lights" that I picked up at the chandler's clearance sale; they're bolted to the bow gunwales. They tilt up and down manually to compensate for trim/heel angle. A car fog-lamp bulb in each gives me about 50-80 metres range over a total of about 40-50 degrees, depending on conditions. They draw a helluva lot of power but work very well; switch is in easy reach of the helm and they don't screw up your night vision for any more than 4-5 seconds.
Car fog lamps are designed to be down in the bumper cowling, right in the salt spray of that truck you're tailgating on, so they should hold up fine in a boat too.

[FAST FRED]

Real night vision takes almost an hour to establish.
Carrier pilots are sequestered in a red enviroment for even longer.

The trick of closing one eye , and loosing HALF the night vision works , but not in too bright lights as the eyelid passes light.

You might just do what inshore and river tugs do ,
get a bunch of light (1,000,000cp) and take daylight with you.

Power might be a concern , as will be the cost ($65. each ) for bulbs.

FAST FRED

[D'ARTOIS]

[QUOTE=tansails]Chris

Isn't the issue here that mike is saying is that you are blind on a dark night unless you have light? Night vision returns readily even when badly abused and a well mounted foreward light would be good for night vision!

I have run up onto uncharted fish farm enclosures in the mouth of a large wide estuary in a gale late at night when you could see nothing, black with driven spray blinding any attempt to peer around the windscreen. I often think a very strong fixed light projecting foreward would be a useful addition.

On my yacht one of the crew often gets sent fwd with a handheld spotlight, they inevitably shine the bloody thing on the sails deck, back at the steersman when he/she starts bellowing all this despite being told to shine only ahead of the yacht . Even the light on the pulpit rails blinds the steersman to the view beyond. As Mike says at night you are usually alone at the post. So I think this an idea I embrace with fervour.......Now how to do it please.

Sailing in the Southern ocean from NZ to campbell island in a storm we turned on all the overhead lights and could then see the waves that had been brutalising us so much, the difference psychologically was amazing and I would recommend it. Could still easily see an accompanying vessels lights in the distance.


How true,

The Dutch waters at night are spoiled with invisible obstacles, like buoys, dragworks and fishing nets.

Very dangerous are the unilluminated dragworks in the rivers, I hit one in the Amstelriver in the middle of the night when I was blinded by the headlights of a car.

When approaching the locks of Den Oever, I hit a buoy, causing little damage but still annoying. Having had a good set of projectors could have avoided this.
I sail alone, so I cannot send people forward.

But what is the best place?
In the bow, just like mooring lights? Or mounted integrally in the pulpit?

Secondly is it legal? In open sea I don't care, but in inland waters, the bouscouts are very eager to land you a nice fine.

But undoubtely, the necessity is evident.

[trouty]

Truthfully - you shouldn't project that white light forward, in as far as other vessels being able to identiify you, and your course speed and afford you the right stand on / off priveleges...

Soo - for example...Maybe someone will interpret your forward white light - allong woth ruunning lights as a trawler?...in the act of trawling?...(restricted in ability to maneauover, engaged in fishing - whatever) from your incorrect light signal.

If as a result - they mistake your heading speed and a dcollision ensues - you will be at fault, even if you SHOULD have been afforded right of way...(under sail)..

So - basically you shouldn't do it.

That said - everyone does....even those who enforce the rules....sine my vessel which i bought from the martime authorities comes fittefd with a search spotlight remotely operated from within the cabin.....but you see - it's a patrol & rescue vessel - so the spotlight is for rescue purposes.

All the same - someone mistakes me for a pair trawler or whatever - and runs into me - I'm at fault...:rolleyes:

Soo..go ahead anyway and install your lights - they are search & rescue lights! (Arent they?) ;) (Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander as they say!).

New moon nights - can be a b!tch...black as the inside of Joe Loui's left boxing glove!.. Add a bit of salt spray to the front window...I don't care if you got night image intensifying bino's...your still up shyte creek without a paddle.

Sooo - I used my spotlight last time I had to come home in a 30 knot sou wester across an open estuary on a new moon night...none of the channel markers (and theres hundreds of em) except the leading one are lit! Once past the first marker - your in the dark, blind and on your own.

Even with Color Furuno GPS/Chartplotter....AND spotlight...I managed to nudge the mud with the bow on one tight corner in the channel... :rolleyes:

Maybe had I had radar I'd a seen the next marker - but it was so far around I couldn't swing the spotlight far enough to pick it up...even when the chart plotter told me roughlt where it oughtta be!

These things just don't update quick enough for close in maneouvering in the dark with no light in a tight (shallow / narrow) unlit channel.

Course the question could be asked - why be out in such crap...but - the prawns were running and I'm a sucker for prawns I'm sorry! :D

Sooo..damned if you do and likely damned if you don't...and even with a spotlight - you can still goof... :eek: Radar mightaa helped but to be honest I still reckon I'd a ate mud...you can only watch so much at one time...

Go for the lights - just be judicious about where n when you use them and have courtesy for other night time water users!

Cheers!

[sal's Dad]

I have wondered about bright red/green "headlights" in the bow of my skiff - this would seem to be within the regulations, and provide improved, though imperfect visibility. They'd also be great for nav bouy reflectors (at least heading upstream !-)

With respect to night vision, where I am generally out, a car (or streetlight) can be blinding, and sometimes difficult to avoid. To say nothing of heading downstream from the shipyard (lit like day) and rounding a bend into total darkness.

[zerogara]

Some international navigation rules prohibit such lighting on boats traveling the high seas. Imagine how nice it would be to be on an ocean route and have to facing vessels flashing their "high beams".
Singlehanders who sleep during the day and steer at night use them though, rules or no rules, and if a crazy idea that there is something ahead of you in the dark pops in your head (and it does the darker it is) you want to be able to test the hypothesis before the BANG!!
I've heard of some folks strapping a jetliner's landing light on the mast head.
The problem is that most sailing boats are not as steady as landing jets and those things will never illuminate what you want to see.
Also radar detectors for cars will pick up the frequencies of other vessels' radars, and the higher you mount them with a remote beeper the further out they will scan.
I like the dark and even the reflection of navigation lights bothers me.

[safewalrus]

to go with 'Longliner' on this (and others) try a big 'aldis' on a stick, as long as you stay under or behind the light your night vision should be OK! :rolleyes: to the side or it behind you and your blind (and deserve to be)! :D Incidentaly if it is an 'aldis' you can also send messages with it if you can read the code! (good old sam morse's on that is)!:D

Can't quite figure trouty's comments on trawlers, if you've got a green and white up surely it says " for chrissake stay away I'm trawling and stuck to the bottom" or has it all changed (maybe you've finally taken me to heart after the other postings on the 'Future of Commercial fishing" and are trying to cut the odds by taking out a few trawlers?:D

As for singlehanders they are breaking the law anyway so they may as well go down for everything eh!:mad:

[trouty]

Can't quite figure trouty's comments on trawlers, if you've got a green and white up surely it says " for chrissake stay away I'm trawling and stuck to the bottom" or has it all changed (maybe you've finally taken me to heart after the other postings on the 'Future of Commercial fishing" and are trying to cut the odds by taking out a few trawlers?

No it hasn't changed...it's just that - not everyones an expert on night lights, shapes and sound signals these days! :rolleyes:

Example...(from your own quote)...

A sailboat displays a all round white on top of the mast and the usual red / green, port starboard nav lights...

So - viewed...from the starboard side at a distance you see one white over green - no?

So - a trawler engaged in trawling?.. or a sailboat running as it should be?...or me in my powerboat running home after a night prawning, with spotlight abalze?

Confuzzling on the water at night when people make up their own rules! ;)

Golden rule?

Don't run over no bugger! :D

Works for me (so far!). :)...

The big worry of course - is TWO boats with spotlights ablaze...

Is it a pair trawler, and do I go around, or is it two idiots with spotlights ablaze and I go between? Get it wrong and the pair trawler will eat you for breakfast! :D

Cheers!

[tansails]

Night vision is often cited as a reason for all sorts of mythology,
I find my eyes adjust reasonably well in around a minute from the full bright inside light to the outside dark, providing there is some light from the stars and or moon. On a black night you see nothing at all period. There is no night vision on a black night.

I dont think anyone will mistake projecting lights for Nav lights. All commercial shipping bristles with powerful fixed spotlights and deck lights. You just have to be able to switch them off if a situation develops where they could be confusing.

Every trawler you meet at night has a huge pwerful light projected over the stern and work deck at night as they trawl. You can still see their mast lights and port and stbd lights and they can see yours.

How much of the urban mythology regarding night vision at sea relates to the old military requirement of a blacked out vessels. All getting a bit old hat now on naval vessels with radar, night vision video and all the tracking electronics, the battle is run from the control room within the ship, no longer the bridge.

The issue here is being able to turn the lights on and off easily from the helm and projecting the lights so they do not remove your night vision. A light projected onto dark water from the bow will not blind you at all unless it shines on a white boat! To be blinded you need strong reflected light.

Michael Bailey

[zerogara]

There is also hearing, for sailing vessels. If you are in total darkness and you know the sounds your boat makes under given conditions, the sound of waves and the wind, you can screen all this out to pick up the difference, it may be reflected sound from an obstacle, land nearby, the squeeks of an other vessel, etc etc.
For the novice it is always surprising, when a few miles of coast for the first time, how much darker everything is!
An other issue with vision in the dark is that even though you may have a spot light in the bow, you don't really expect to see an object and in certain conditions it might still be there and you didn't notice it till you either hit it or see it pass you by REALLY CLOSE!

[trouty]

Does NOT return within a short period of time after being exposed to strong spotlight.

It mat take a half hour or more, for FULL and true night vision to return..after such exposure to light, IMHO.

Yes your pupil can dialate and shrink and dialate again under influence of strong or weak (no ) light - however the receptors (cones & rods) on your retina may NOT respond as quickly as the pupil does.

Light characteristics at night - are shown on charts - height above sea level - flashing characteristic, and Distance visible from are shown on charts...

Of course this varies with the clarity of the atmosphere (amount of suspended moisture / salt laden moisture/Dust etc as well as the significant wave height, tide etc all affect the actual distance you can see a certain light at night...

If (like me) you are already looking thru the bottom of two coke bottles, and then a dirty windscreen to boot - well maybe you can't see half as far! (or less). Add in loss of night vision from a bright spotlight in the eye and some skippers get very very cranky at bright light whether aboard their own boat or someone elses!

Stress is the reason, most often...the skipper is the one responsible for getting everyone home safe and bright lights from unthinking fellow boaters or even crew of his own vessel just increase the stress.

It's akin to pilots who have to "fly blind" by instrument thru cloud for example - the whole time - you are waiting for another plane (or a mountain top) to loom up in front of you at any instant - that my friends - is stressfull.

If your spot lights earn you the anger of fellow boaters - then you will know why..

Try navigating the dark in unfamiliar waters, plenty can and does go wrong in a very short space of time.

Like powerfull spotlights on your car / truck - theres nothing wrong with owning them, it's how you use 9or mis use) them that gets fellow road users cranky!

Same on the water really - use your head and you'll be alright!

Cheers!

[yipster]

under a silvery moon you can even go fast, but total moonles nights on the water is different. where possible its sometimes better to overnight with an anchorlight than trying to make it home. a powerfull bow mounted searchlight, or big flashlight, only shows a few meter of misty grey waves and fog -or suddenly a buoy-, no roadsigns! better navigate very slowly on gps and have a lookout on the bow or plan ahead by watching moon periods.

[tom28571]

The discussion on restoration of night vision is interesting but it is not the only consideration. Agreed that sailing out on the open ocean with headlights like a off road racer is silly. I have navigated inland waters like the Tenn-Tom at night and found an articulated spotlight to be of great value even if there was some temoporary loss of night vision from reflected light. If you just turn it on to check out a suspected hazard in the water or the exact location of a buoy, it's a net positive rather than a negative to safety. Even with RADAR available, the light is very useful. When coming into a tight channel, fishing pot field or anchorage on a dark night a little light can save much embarassment, or worse. You won't be concerned about night vision while trying to free your keel, rudder or prop from a pot line or net.

Ditto the remarks about lights on commercial vessels. They are usually lit up like Christmas trees. All those bright lights get your attention, which should be the first thing of interest in avoiding collision. After that, you can search for the running lights to tell you the course of the thing, although they are sometimes hard to locate among all the brighter lights.

[D'ARTOIS]

On the AC Nymphea we were entering the approach to Den Helder: a narrow piece of shallow water, sandbanks left and right, indicated by unlit buoys.
A gale of Bft 7 blew, waves braking over us and the buoys were as good as invisible for the helmsman and the watch. The boat grounded once, me standing with the projector in the pulpit to identify the buoys that we passed. Fortunately we were not dismasted.

Fishermen around us, noticing our peril, flooded their large spotlights and doing so clearing the path for us.
Heavy rain made normal nightvision impossible but with the forward beams of the fisherman we could see the buoys clearly in advance.

In any case, I will mount a reasonable 1 mil candles spot between the first spreaders. Legal or not!

[safewalrus]

Sensible d'Artois sensible!

Trouty - white over green is the starboard side of a power vessel underway; Green over white allround is this blasted trawler wer'e all on about! Red over green is your sailboat (with red or green side lights under); red over white is a fishing boat (not trawling); white over red is a pilot boat; red over white over red is special operations keep clear; lit up like a bloody christmas tree is probably dredging or hanging out the washing or drunk! And if it's all the other way up your in OZ - get it right can we! must be yer age!

[MikeJohns]

There is also the issue here of needing extra light because your night vision has been extinguished by strong background lighting such as coastal sailing in populated areas at night, you have all the backlights of the town or city and with buoys moored boats navigation posts set nets fish traps night fisherman and small unlit boats.