What happened to Frosty ..I am worried

[masalai]

Well said Viking,
Sadly none will believe the truth even that they are NOT Americans but ARE citizens and/or residents of USA, and to use common abbreviation such as in Mexicans, Canadians, Guatemalan, (no plural?), and so on USAnian is /seems quite legitimate usage... Australia has but 21million Australians so who are we to determine such things, but observance of convention and tradition holds significant import...

[IMP-ish]

Originally Posted by masalai

Well said Viking,
Sadly none will believe the truth even that they are NOT Americans but ARE citizens and/or residents of USA, and to use common abbreviation such as in Mexicans, Canadians, Guatemalan, (no plural?), and so on USAnian is /seems quite legitimate usage... Australia has but 21million Australians so who are we to determine such things, but observance of convention and tradition holds significant import...

Says an Ausanian

[viking north]

Good one --now I know why the Tag. Come to think of it Cansanian or Casanian doesn't sound so bad either.

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by viking north

I know this is nit picking but America does not have a flag as it is a continent not a country. The Country of the United States on the other hand does have a flag and of all the flags of the world it falls within my favourite 10 designs as also does the country and it's people. Typically of citizens of empires, the society in general tends to become inward looking and as a result has less drive to know about the rest of the world other than when it could affect their personal lifestyle. Taken one step further this mind set also reduces the interest and knowledge of areas and people within their own country. This is typical of all powerful empires thru out history. It is not an indication of the education, intelligence or ability of a people it's just a by product of being a citizen of a superpower/empire. One has less interest or need to seek out info on how other nations or people tick when your's is ticking at what you perceive as perfect time. You don't have to get to where they are they have to get to where you are. It's just a human mindset.
Now some thoughts on the United States Flag. First question why stars and stripes ? Why not some other combination of patterns. The generally accepted history is, it is based upon the British coat of arms of the Washington family. If you visit the ancestorial family cottage of George Washington in England, the coat of arms displayed over the front door is of a standard crest shape with stars on about 1/3 of it's top and vertical red and white stripes covering the bottom 2/3 rds. This is not only logical but deserving of a great mother country (England) a great family (Washington) from whom came a great man (George Washington) that in turn fought and help create another great country.

You're right; you're nitpicking.

Trust me: we all understand that when someone (especially in the USA) says 'the American flag,' he isn't referring to some mythical flag that covers two major continents. Nor do we worry about Pullman sleepers or mine carts on the freeway, when reporters refer to heavy traffic as cars instead of automobiles.

-For better or worse, the USA is definitely a superpower. But we don't really fit the classic definition of an empire. And I don't think that one's nitpicking.

-Whatever its origins, the Stars and Stripes is a beautiful banner. I don't think there's a national flag in the world that can match it, especially when it's waving against a blue sky and a few fluffy clouds. And although I pride myself on being immune to sentimental triggers, the sight of it being unfurled in a breeze can occasionally set off some embarrassingly blurry vision for a minute or two....

When it comes to patriotism, I'm like a guy with a brutally honest picture of his wife in his wallet. He's under no illusions about her looks, but knows her well enough to love her anyway.

[viking north]

Can't argue with you there --as I prev. posted I grew up on a U.S. SAC base in Newfoundland and was very influenced by both U.S. culture and the Stars and Stripes. It is one of my favourite designs. I would classify the U.S as a superpower/empire. Superpower in it's military capability --Empire in it's financial capability/control. It learned from the biggest mistake of the mother country better to control a countrys finances than it's landmass. Here is where U.S. buisness has expanded into other countries and been so successful. The United States is still the most powerful economic nation on earth bar none.

[PAR]

Americans are in fact Americans and no one would suggest they are nothing less then citizens of the United States of America. There's is no confusion over central or south American countries or the citizens within each. Unlike other continents, such as Asia, there isn't any doubt where a person is from or what country if you call them an American Citizen. You can call a European, a European, but not know is citizenship, though once the word American is used, there is absolutely no confusion of their citizenship. Australians know this well, as they are also one of the few places where there's absolutely no confusion, about their citizenship.

[masalai]

USA may be but one BIG country in America and so is Canada, Mexico, and a dozen or so other countries in North and South America... As such there is no country called America... A landmass or continent, containing several countries, one of them being USA...

When One is talking of USA and its people, it is only USAnians who demand that they are Americans, is it because of a certain shame at being labelled as being from USA as opposed to the anonymity of being an American? - I am just curious as to the inaccuracy of not retaining 'convention and tradition'...

Hi Par, European yes but call a Frenchman or a German that and they may be feeling a bit miffed at being bundled with 'lesser mortals' or ignored in their rightful place as a Frenchmen of German... OK I will concede to hearing the reference as you suggest, but usually in a derogatory tone or context... and care to ascertain that the individual is not from Canada...

For the Australian states, Queensland has 'banana-benders', 'peanuts' (from the Joh Bjielky Petersen era) or more formally as Queenslanders - Those from NSW are NSWelshmen or many other derivations, - Victorians is in common usage for people from Victoria, - Taswegians and Tasmanians for those from Tasmania - 'Crow-eaters' are from South Australia - and West Australia (is it Sand-gropers?), but is usually the 'Cinderellas' of the forgotten land, - whilst the Northern Territory is for those residing in the 'never-never' - and Canberra is a waste of time being full of bureaucrats and federal politicians - both equally useless... Those are the more polite reference terms, there are many other names reserved for the 'sports-fields'...

- - - By the way Australian is the correct spelling and conventional form but Aussie, is usually accepted in social conversation... Otherwise there seems to be confusion in referring to Austrians (a different country near Germany and Switzerland where different conventions have long been in place to name the collective citizenry... This is getting a bit political so I will delete same is there is objection... I am trying to understand the correct terminology and use...

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by PAR

Americans are in fact Americans and no one would suggest they are nothing less then citizens of the United States of America. There's is no confusion over central or south American countries or the citizens within each. Unlike other continents, such as Asia, there isn't any doubt where a person is from or what country if you call them an American Citizen. You can call a European, a European, but not know is citizenship, though once the word American is used, there is absolutely no confusion of their citizenship. Australians know this well, as they are also one of the few places where there's absolutely no confusion, about their citizenship.

I dealt with Australian sailors, when I was in the US Navy during Vietnam. They were a remarkably uninhibited bunch -- at least when they were ashore with a few drinks down them. Whether you considered them refreshingly honest or rude jackasses generally depended on which end of things you were on....

I was sharing a taxi back to Subic Bay with an Aussie bosun's mate one night, and he had a helium-filled balloon. About the umpteenth time he bounced it on its string and said, "I luv me balloon," I got fed up and unfortunately responded, "ah. But does the balloon love you?"

We went from "and just wot the 'ell is that supposed to mean, mate?" to full fisticuffs, in about a minute flat. The taxi driver pulled over, opened the back door on the passenger side to let us spill out onto the shoulder, and patiently waited while we pounded on each other until we got tired.

Eventually we called it a draw, climbed back in, and ordered the driver to take us back to the Bar Mary -- where the girls fussed over us, offering sympathy and trying to clean up the worst of the mud and the blood, and vied to see how many drinks they could get us to ante up for. And yes, the driver got a good tip.

It's a good thing we're only young once; I'm not sure I'd have survived two times around.

[Leo Lazauskas]

Originally Posted by viking north

I know this is nit picking but America does not have a flag as it is a continent not a country.

That really is nit-picky, viking!
Next you'll be telling us that "Yankee Go Home" is an invitation
for citizens from Confederate States to stay.

Originally Posted by viking north

Now some thoughts on the United States Flag.

I have always found the Canadian flag to be the most graphically striking,
and immediately recognizable. (Ours is like parrot-droppings around a Union
Jack, which might be a metaphor.)

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by masalai

USA may be but one BIG country in America and so is Canada, Mexico, and a dozen or so other countries in North and South America... As such there is no country called America... A landmass containing several countries, one of them being USA...

When One is talking of USA and its people, it is only USAnians who demand that they are Americans, is it because of a certain shame at being labelled as being from USA as opposed to the anonymity of being an American? - I am just curious as the the inaccuracy of not retaining 'convention and tradition'...

Hi Par, European yes but call a Frenchman or a German that and they may be feeling a bit miffed...

By the way Australian is the correct spelling and conventional form but aussy, is usually accepted in social conversation... Otherwise there seems to be confusion in referring to Austrians (a different country near Germany and Switzerland where different conventions have long been in place to name the collective citizenry...

Give it a rest, mas. You're ****ing in the wind.. This country has been commonly referred to by the rest of the world as America, and its citizens as Americans, throughout its history.

I have De Tocqueville's classic 2-volume political and sociological treatise about the US on my Kindle right now, in fact. It was originally published in France in 1835 and 1840 -- and the title is, "De la démocratie en Amérique." Which just happens to be French for "Democracy in America"....

[PAR]

Originally Posted by masalai

. . . When One is talking of USA and its people, it is only USAnians who demand that they are Americans, is it because of a certain shame at being labelled as being from USA as opposed to the anonymity of being an American? - I am just curious as to the inaccuracy of not retaining 'convention and tradition' . . .

If you walk into any reasonable place in the world and open your mouth, with the clearly southern draw that I have, the very first question is "Are you an American?" Having seen a fair bit of our world, I've never been accused of being anything else, making one wonder how you've arrived at this conclusion. I've seen attempts in this thread to remove the most important word of our country's name from our citizenship designation. I'm not sure what convention this might fall under, but we are not and never have been USAnians, but always have understood and accepted (world wide) that we are; a united group of widely dissimilar people, living within a gathering of states, that are wholly known as America, hence making us as I've suggested, nothing less. As a people, we aren't known for this united assembly of regions, though amongst ourselves often as Floridians or New Yorkers, but as a people, simply just Americans. It's one of the few things we, as a country, can completely agree. It's this simple truism that also makes this country great. Not that we've united these states under a single flag, but that we are widely different regionally, thus making any nationally agreed upon decision, one which most find palatable.

[pdwiley]

Originally Posted by troy2000

Your point? Does that somehow mean it isn't a democracy?

I repeat: the USA is a constitutional republic. I leave it to you to look up the definitions for yourself.

PAR must be chuckling to himself.....

PDW

[PAR]

In a "constitutional republic" it's assumed it's democratic. The full term would be a democratic constitutional republic, though the USA's government is listed as a constitutional federal republic. The distinction being a central federal government with sub-divisions within it.

There are only 4 basic types of government structure; Unitary, Federal, Confederal and nothing (anarchy). The power of these governments comes from the system, depending on it's structure, but all the countries of the world can be divided into: Republics, Democracies, Parliaments, Monarchies, Dictatorships, Federal Republics, Military Juntas, Communism, Parliamentary Democracies and Constitutional Monarchies.

Of these types it can get a bit complicated, with various sorts and applications of power distribution (or lack of it).

[viking north]

Oops-- I'm probably the most American of the non Americans on this post. My former homeland now a province is considered as the Origional New England Colony and played a majour role in the supply of food,equiptment, and defence for the growing New England colonies to the south. We were within 2% of becoming an eventual state of the United States in the 1949 reforandum. Canada or Remain Independant and economic union with the U.S. Which by the way we were for hundreds of years--we actually had little to do with Canada other than help save their ass against U.S. invasion troops on the Niagara Peninsulia in 1812. (The Royal Newfoundland Regiment were instrumental in repelling the U.S. forces back across the border and even went so far as to attack and capture forts on the U.S. side. For my Australian and New Zealand friends we also fought alongside you at Subla Bay. In both cases won regimental plaques of honour for superior military performance. Ok back to the American issue--It is natural citizens of the U.S. are today known as Americans-- they, present day Canadians, were always referred by the English as our American Colonies from day one. Several factors played a role in the name sticking in the present U.S. and dying out in Canada. A base to operate from, Climate-Numbers-Language -Independance-A base to operate from (English foothold,( Military and fishing base, St. John's NFLD founded 1583) Climate (milder, easier to survive) Numbers, (the rate of growth for english speaking settlers present, U.S. to Canada colonies was always 10 to 1. Still is today)Language/culture also played a big role here--(we have to remember the french language and culture outnumbered the english in early Canada for the first 100 years of growth. A big factor in opposing english settlers) Independance, (of the New England Colonies(NFLD & N.S.were invited to join but declined) resulted in the colonial army defeating or at least convincing the British not to get into a full out war with France first and the colonies second.(too costly). The new country formed The United States of "AMERICA". thus thru numbers, dominance, independance and name the term "AMERICAN" no longer simply referred to the colonies but to a new country and thus it's people Americans. Having said that I am hearing the term Usasions more from the South Americam countries as they grow in patriotic numbers, power, and starting to flex their muscles. Which of course might be history repeating itself -- Base of operations, climate, numbers, language ------

Gotta go packing the land yacht to go from America to America--

[CatBuilder]

What a strange argument. Just like Troy said, going back several generations, the "United States of America" has always been referred to as "America."

Why?

It's short for "The United States of America!"

People from all over the globe, since the beginning of this country have referred to it that way. If you decide that the USA is the "Great Satan" and try to pretend it is not called "America", you are only deluding yourself.

It's like a conversation with a bunch of Rush Limbaughs and Newt Gingriches except they are from other countries. In other words, very closed minded people.

The USA is called "America" as a short way to say "United States of America" just as "China" is short for "The People's Republic of China" or "Australia" is short for "The Commonwealth of Australia."

Or to continue... "Tanzania" is short for "United Republic of Tanzania", etc...

What kind of people come from Tanzania? URTians? NO! Tanzanians!

Honestly, this debate shows a real lack of intelligence on the part of some.