What Do We Think About Climate Change

I'm not sure how much the oil companies control the price of oil. Some of it is set by OPEC, which I'm sure the oil companies have some influence over, but a lot of it is also driven by the futures markets.

These are the folks who bug me. They make tons of money trading futures and commodities, but don't actually add any value in the process. The same is true to a lesser extent of stock traders, but they at least serve as a conduit of investment (sometimes).

Activities that exist only to make money without producing goods or services of value should be taxed as heavily as possible IMHO

 

The estimated cost of a gallon of algae based Bio-diesel is about $2 once all these start ups get up and running. Its market price is already at just about the production cost of a gallon of refined gasoline. Which means its competitive right now. That's what all the rush is about. Once they discovered the potential of algae and places like CSU who helped develop it were willing to sell the technology then the band wagon got rolling. When I guy like Bill Gates forks over 500 million to just one of these start ups you can bet there's some potential there.

Taxes are never a solution, Taxes are if anything the problem. Give a crook a buck and he'll come back demanding more, and more, and more. I say hang every last politician off the white house porch roof and leave them there as an example to the next batch that wants the job. Neither Taxes or politicians are the solution. They are leaches that deserve to be thought of that way and dealt with as such.

if you really want to be disgusted with the obvious bribery that goes on in Washington just read how the republicans were financed by Wallstreet in the last round of phony elections.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40913123/ns/politics/

 

Ohhhh Buoy. Here we go again: "Tax the conventional fuels until the alternative becomes a better deal and change will ensue." - I think you know what an "economy" is, even if that university where you live does not, (to refresh your memory: it is not your Prius), and in an ideal world, the "economy" could take a little short-term hit (raising taxes) for the long-term gain of increased national security, reduced pollution (I don't know that the full life cycle of solar panels, creation, distribution, installation, operation, death and transportation to a landfill, or whatever other alternative creates less pollution than refining oil, but let's just say it does), the "feel good" factor, plus whatever tangibles and intangible benefits of discouraging oil you may come up with. However, because you needed to have the government give you more things, because I didn't pay attention at just how corrupt the politicians were, because we allowed those fricking slimeballs to spend us into a 14 trillion dollar deficit, never, NEVER in our lifetimes will we be able to make a simple decision to raise taxes on one energy alternative to encourage the use of another. From here on out, my friend, it is balls out on encouraging the economy or failure of the greatest government experiment ever undertaken.
Think about this: Okay, blame Bush on spending on war - he put us a trillion or two in debt, the economy took a hit so we can't blame the other ten trillion on Obama just for what he spent money on (insanity and criminal, BTW - I mean seriously criminal, like TREASON criminal) but regardless of how we got here, we are not going to get out in the same length of time we got in. There will not be a balanced budget, confidence in the dollar and the ability for our grandkids to have the same opportunities as we had in our lifetimes. It's done. The new congress is still playing games, your stupid-*** Seattle voted a spending governor in again for your state (don't you just love that? A generally conservative state, going about its business of farming, fishing, logging, and such... A bunch of people pigpile into the nicest piece of real estate around, then make everybody else pay for the cool **** they want and the kicker is, they milk so much out of the people doing work, with their hands, that they break the system. Combine that with the moral cesspool of cities and what they turn out that spills over into suburbia, and you've got a mess), and though I am confident that our people are waking up and are ready to rebuild this country (morally, physically, economically), it is going to be the longest grind we could imagine. There will be no such taxes without extending the hangover for as long as said taxes are in place. In fact, what we should be doing is lowering the taxes on energy and get this thing hummin'!

 

the debt was twice as high after ww2 and we got out

the economy just has to perform and that's not going to happen while 1% of the population has 43% of the wealth

http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

our financial system has crash built into it

 

Stop worrying about that 1%. They did not take 43% out of the economy - they added 43% to the economy. Yes, they are rich - Hallelujah! Drop the envy and work to be like them, if you want. You are just not grasping the mechanics of it.
Sorry, I'm not now going to read what a stupid, f'ing sociology prof has to say about wealth and power. F him and the fact that he has a job corrupting kids at society's expense.

 

using others money to buy existing companies adds nothing to the economy, it only concentrates wealth and if it can be done paying little or no taxes so much the better

 

Actually the did take that 43% out of the economy. If the gross domestic product remains the same which it has to the larger extent and yet the wealthiest 1% of the population manages to capture a larger and larger percentage of the available wages then yes, they are taking there cut from the other workers of the economy. The money comes from somewhere and in a world of ever increasing corporate profits but stagnating gross national product ( in the west at least ) and you add ( or in this case subtract from that ) the ever increasing amount of earned income being concentrated in fewer and fewer workers then the only place that income can come from is directly from the hands of the other workers. Prices actually dropped over the last few years so consumer activity cant account for the source of this income. Its pretty clear that the excesses enjoyed by the few are a direct result of those few simply paying the rest of the work force less.

Doesn't mean that pay should not be commensurate to ability but it does mean that excessive pay scales are detrimental to the overall workforce. I generally dislike unions but to some degree they even out the inherent inequities of the corporate oligarchy.

cheers
B

ps
I'm off to the used equipment yard looking for a geared pump head thats actually made in America for my mini refinery.

 

There are other points in B'ham's post and the top half of your post that need addressing. Am I the only one of the freemarket species here? Somebody tag in please.
Good luck with the "made in America" thing...the production was shipped overseas so that the companies could compete (because of tax burdens, environmental regulations and wages here that preclude manufacture here). Don't blame the companies, as they are just like us, trying to survive, doing the best they can for their families (shareholders). Yeah, Yeah, yeah...retort with the import tarrif thing, Wad - that just removes alternatives from the marketplace, takes some of our freedom to choose, if you will, and makes whatever is left more expensive. You chose Wal-Mart by voting to have others pay for stuff for you, by going to Wal-Mart, and collective bargaining - our manufacturing base didn't just die, it moved to China. (oops, now, I'll have Troy on my ***). In a natural, free market, the goods and services are near infinite and there is a built-in advantage for production close to home (less shipping expense), all else being equal (where are the resourses?).
Look at the internet as an example. Amazing, isn't it? ANYTHING you want, you can find with a little legwork. Irritating, yes, but the irritations work themselves out. It is an ever-evolving, ever improving, force. Don't worry, they'll kill it soon with censorship and "net neutrality". You will be directed what to look at like in some places you are directed what to eat. No more Happy Meals, soon!

 

it is profit uber alles

the rich are stateless or a state all their own

 

Why do you say "uber alles", opening of the Deutchland anthem ? Are you making a subtle Nazi metaphore? You know, Nazis were just one bad party and you can't saddle the entire country with what happened because of them any more than you can call Americans "Democrats" when discussing the failures of this nation. We have a lot of good, smart people here, too (and some misguided democrats - the're good people, too)
In a perfect world, the one where the birds are chirping, the carnavores are sleeping with herbavores, unicorns leap over double rainbows...you know, like the stuff in your head (Mostly just chirping birds), we could do away with profits. We would just work as much as we want, eat what we want, screw who we want, never get sick... but, don't shoot the messenger (you? With a gun?), we don't have that and never will. Profit motivation is the best thing we've got. Screw with it at your peril.

 

The problem here is that it's more profitable in the short term to destroy our resources, our domestic economy, and even our society. The way that the economy is structured now, there is no incentive for long term thinking or creating sustainable business. Results are measured by short term profits regardless of how much damage is done as a result.

That's exactly how we got here. The pursuit of profit and economic growth no matter the consequences.

The failure of democracy will come from allowing the influence of money to direct the path of the nation.

We do actually make a few things out here on the west side of the mountains. We make a lot of airplanes, for example. We also design software (Microsoft, Adobe and others) and sell books (Amazon). We also produce and distribute a lot of lumber. We provide the outlet for all that grain they grow on the east side of the mountains and across the country. We have four oil refineries converting Alaskan crude within 50 miles of where I'm sitting typing this. We have a couple of steel mills and at least one Aluminum smelter over here. All of these activities add value to the economy.

Likewise, when times were good instead of cutting taxes and shooting ourselves in the foot (as badly) when things went south, we voted to start putting some of it away in a rainy day fund. Unfortunately we weren't able to fill it too far before things went south.

Most of the national debt you like to go about is a direct result of cutting taxes. Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy took 6 trillion dollars out of the economy without any cut in spending. That's not even counting the wars, that is only the reduction in revenue. In order to balance the budget you have to control both sides of the equation, spending AND revenue.

 

You need to find a new whipping boy, Mark.

In 2009, only 7.2% of workers in the private sector belonged to unions. Only about 11% of that 7.2% worked in manufacturing.

Given those numbers, I see no reason to blame 'collective bargaining' for companies moving production to China.

 

Listen, cthippy, I'm in no position to devote the time necessary to teach you the facts of life. (I'm from that state, BTW, and you probably Googled Homer, Illinois. There are more of them)
You are going to believe the things you believe...because of your experiences, peer presure, the anti-society Huxley College and the individuals that crawl out of there, the snowball of exposing yourself to sources of information that tend to reinforce your beliefs, the affirmation you get when the retarded people of your state are in sufficient numbers to vote in a spending governor...all of the above but it's my appointed task to undo that affirmation as best as I can in the small alloted time I give myself on this forum.
I have explained how a market works, you can buy books, read online, or simply look at how things work in your own experiences but, this time, without rose-colored lenses. You work, you get payed, you pay other people to do things for you...if the wire makes contact with a wet spot in the muffin, it might arc a bit but a light will come on and illuminate a very simple rule set that applies to people, companies, state government and nations. It is called common sense and it tells sentient beings "Don't spend more than you take in and don't watch Rachel Maddow!"
Okay, Troy, let's just say high wages, retirements and benefits.

 

Man, Boston NAILED IT on this page. That's precisely what's going on. With GDP, worker productivity and overall corporate profits vastly eclipsing people's earnings, we're in trouble.

See, our country is a consumer based economy and if you take the money out of the consumer's pocket (by having no inflation adjusted wage increases for the past 10 or 20 years), you end up with a stagnant economy.

Like I used to say before that housing bubble popped: If the average American with the average American income cannot afford the average American house price, there is a valuation problem. Those things have come back in line.

Now, we have a similar problem with wage stagnation. The average Joe doesn't buy things when he's broke. Through wage stagnation, taxes, etc... the average Joe doesn't have much to spend anymore, which hurts EVERYONE - from the poorest person struggling to the tycoon who has just posted a record drop in sales of flat screen TVs.

This is one of the many, many systemic problems our economy has. Politics and arguing right or left can't change it. Put penalties in for companies that don't pay enough through some regulation and the companies will simply relocate, like Mark points out. Get rid of all regulation and make it a complete free for all and they'll pay workers nothing.

The problems is inherent in the system. The full evolution of capitalism is, unfortunately, a state where there is a wasteland of really poor people and a few really rich people behind security fences.

The only thing that really made our country great (a middle class) is not part of the ultimate evolution of a free capitalist system that is driven by motivation to make money, without regard for consequences or the future.

Sometime way back in the day, there was a time when companies paid their workers enough (in inflation adjusted dollars) that they could afford to have the wife stay home, have a car, a nice house, modern conveniences and kids. That time has long ended and we are on a fast track to the end result of unbridled capitalism - a failure of the system, in general due to lack of ethics, lack of regard for future generations and lack of regard for the country. Just like Boston said, it's more profitable to say "the hell with the future and our country" and just book profits now, regardless of the price you have to pay in the long run. The current culture does not value the future in a way that others in the past (Jackie O, for example) did. That's what is dooming us.

 

then why historically has the country made more financial gains for all classes under the democrats than the republicans?

just a little verifiable history