What Do We Think About Climate Change

Still, to seek energy alternatives because it is necessary for national security is real. It's as real for us as it is Israel. Alternatives because they make you feel good inside and Sean Penn, or whoever, thinks it's cool is something else. I would have no problem with programs, like DARPA, studying alternatives and getting our country ready for some day when oil starts getting harder to find. We've got about two-hundred years is all before it gets pretty tricky finding oil and I, for one, believe we should start making things happen before then. Of course, market forces will find alternatives as needed but I feel that on issues of national security, we need to be ahead of the curve.
I have to admit, I would be amused to see the Mid-East do without a market for its oil, but that is really rather selfish and not necessarily in line with our national security. My thought is that, though it pisses me off to have tree-huggers Outside (outside Alaska) tell us we can't drill ANWAR, it will be good to have it there for national security someday, a strategic petroleum reserve, if you will. Might as well let the Arabs use all their's first.
There will NEVER be a complete alternative to oil. We will need it for other things if not energy - to which we may find an alternative. At five, seven, fifteen dollars, or whatever, alternatives that didn't look too promising at 59 cents look pretty good! Artificially raising the price through taxes is retarded - it just slows down the economy relative to whoever isn't taxing or doesn't use oil. That, also, is contrary to national security. Before you start; "You are admitting that there are countries that might not need oil, then?" Yes, there are...and they live in huts.

 

By the way, I'm not arguing with him. It's a smart thing to do, and it's a national disgrace that no one in our government, past or present, has done the same thing.

 

the longer we wait the harder, more expensive, disruptive and urgent it will be

 

We're cross-posting again... I don't care whether it's Sean Penn or Jesus Christ who says something, or whether it's cool or uncool. I'd still be pushing for energy independence even if it was Rush Limbaugh saying it.

I agree we'll never stop using oil completely. But we can whittle our dependence down, until the country doesn't live or die on what some idiotic despots in the Middle East say and do.

If we did that, ANWR would become a meaningful strategic reserve, as you suggest. Tapping it right now would just be a stopgap measure.

 

WE AGREE! (but I'm perfectly willing to build our economy, strength, future for our children and all other positive things on their oil first!)
I suppose it comes down to the basic differences between us on this topic - I don't give a rip about the future of the Mideast except as it effects us. Yup, I'm a meany... and the sooner they spend all of their oil on Bentleys, the sooner the "Kings" of that shithole will become like everyone else and they can start to work together to bring the bad parts of their society out of the fourth century (I guess, in way, I do care about them!)

 

??? I don't think I've grounded any of my arguments in what's good for oil-producing countries in the Middle East, rather than what's good for us...

I'm a fairly big believer in using their oil first too, but here's an unsettling reality: American oil is no longer particularly controlled by people who put America first. Even the nominally American oil companies are in reality international corporations, with allegiance to no government and no country.

They'll have us by the short hairs as firmly as Saudi Arabia and Venezuela do, if we rely on them instead. The only solution is to reduce the importance of oil in the long run.

Yes, I know it's silly season all year 'round for some celebrities, on environmental issues and the like. But I'd rather see them on their soapboxes trying to do some good as they see it, instead of just drinking themselves to death. And if Sean Penn is what it takes to reach some people, so be it.

 

well that started a ruckus

As I said the solution to global warming wont be found in taxes or in legal haggling over who gets the graft. It will be found in profitable solutions by private industry that present workable alternative energy sources to the marketplace.

 

I think we're fairly well in agreement on that except I'm a touch meaner (online,hehe)

 

The solution to global warming is to immerse the keg in ice water.

 

thing is over the next few years as the costs of fuel spike again and this time are more likely than not to stay there, we are going to be seeing more and more of these alternative fuels come one line. Most of them renewables and most of them brought on by smaller local companies ( hopefully ). The corporate rather than cooperative business model coupled with the monopoly on energy these multinationals have managed to maintain is another part of the problem. That and no mater what the fuel the Govt wants its pound of flesh as well.

As I look further and further into alternative fuels I'm finding there are some pretty interesting things they don't tell you about what you can and cant use for fuel.

something I discovered while studying up on blending my own fuel was that the best diesel additive for winter driving is of all things "bio-diesel", I was shocked and I'm still wondering if I read something wrong but here's the article.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=177728

scroll down till you get to the list of additives they compared and how they did
its pretty surprising


In Order Of Performance:

1) 2% REG SoyPower biodiesel
HFRR 221, 415 micron improvement.
50:1 ratio of baseline fuel to 100% biodiesel
66.56 oz. of 100% biodiesel per 26 gallons of diesel fuel
Price: market value

2)Opti-Lube XPD
Multi-purpose + anti-gel
cetane improver, demulsifier
HFRR 317, 319 micron improvement.
256:1 ratio
13 oz/tank
$4.35/tank

3)FPPF RV, Bus, SUV Diesel/Gas fuel treatment
Gas and Diesel
cetane improver, emulsifier
HFRR 439, 197 micron improvement
640:1 ratio
5.2 oz/tank
$2.60/tank

4)Opti-Lube Summer Blend
Multi-purpose
demulsifier
HFRR 447, 189 micron improvement
3000:1 ratio
1.11 oz/tank
$0.68/tank

5)Opti-Lube Winter Blend
Muti-purpose + anti-gel
cetane improver
HFRR 461, 175 micron improvement
512:1 ratio
6.5 oz/tank
$3.65/tank

6)Schaeffer Diesel Treat 2000
Multi-purpose + anti-gel
cetane improver, emulsifier, bio-diesel compatible
HFRR 470, 166 micron improvement
1000:1 ratio
3.32 oz/tank
$1.87/tank

7)Super Tech Outboard 2-cycle TC-W3 engine oil
Unconventional (Not ULSD compliant, may damage 2007 or newer systems)
HFRR 474, 162 micron improvement
200:1 ratio
16.64 oz/tank
$1.09/tank

Another one I looked into was waste oil filtering, apparently a simple series of canister filters is more than adequate to filter waste oil down to about <1 micron. A descent filtering system only costs about 3 bills to set up. I went with 2 Fram HP1 rock strainers ( 20 microns and its anyone's guess as to how many passes it takes to get it down to that ) then 2 Purilator classics ( 5~10 microns at 97% on one pass) and lastly 2 Purilator PureOnes ( 1 micron at 99.9% ). The expensive filter systems like centrifuges with high pressure pumps are kinda a marketing ploy. I can filter oil just fine at 20 psi, probably even better and given the amount of fuel I'll be making ( a few hundred gallons at a time ) I've kinda decided I just don't need to spend all that much.

Once the algae based biodiesel start ups get up and running I expect the used vegetable oil market to open up some with basically just the do it yourselfers competing for the stuff.

Deal is there's alternatives
I might not be the one to present "my" alternatives to the market but someone will. Someone with the resources to actually collect brew and distribute the product on a profitable scale. Right now there is only one bio-diesel fuel station in the metro area and you have to be a member to fuel up there and, they are charging quite a bit for the stuff.

 

Agreed. Online, at least....

 

Bos, centrifuges really work.
I think you are talking about the beta-ratios of filters http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/564/filter-beta-ratios . Fleetguard, for example, only uses betas and doesn't even talk about micron filters.
Would you please figure out a way to economically make kelp into go-juice?
You should start a thread on bio-diesel.

 

I did

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/diesel-engines/bio-diesel-35945-new-post.html

and yes as soon as I get it down with Vegetable oil I'm going to try pressing the Little lipids out of various sea weeds and see what I get. If I can squeeze fuel out of kelp I'll be as independent as independent gets once I get onto the water

I'll have to find a way to separate the salts but that might not be as hard as it sounds. One of the main research institutes ( CSU ) in the area of bio-diesel is just up the road from here and I have several professor friends up there I can ask about desalinization

oh
I"ll run the question of centrifuges past some of the folks over on the bio-diesel thread and see what they say

I'd be interested to see some actual lab tests concerning the comparative effectiveness of a small centrifuge vs say the Purilator PureOne canister filter on both WMO and on WVO

by the way
thats a great article Mark
I"ve been reading up a lot on that exact kind of thing and the key element of good filtration is a system such as mine is the pressure difference across the filter element. The lower the better at least in the case of canister filters. When it comes to centrifuge filters its a whole different story but thats kinda the rub. To accomplish the goal of filtering say 200 gallons of used motor oil I can go one of a number or routs. The cheapest being to use a low pressure pump going through multiple filters of various ratings at least several times. I can easily get the contaminant level down to 1 micron using this system. The next best system is a lot more expensive and involves the centrifuge. Its two to three times as expensive to set up and the site were I got my centrifuge at boasts particle contaminants will be removed down to about 1/2 a micron. Not that much better than my cheap set up and a lot more expensive to set up.

Now I ask you, how clean is the fuel your buying at the pump. Probably not very from what I've been reading. So even at 1 micron my WMO is a cleaner fuel than most pump diesel and likely a lot cleaner than most home brew bio-diesel. Which is almost exclusively made of WVO which is about the filthiest of all fuels. The filter mechanisms they sell designed to handle WVO are really large, which is where the value of the centrifuge begins to make itself known. WMO is much easier to filter through elements designed specifically to do so and available on the cheap. The WVO systems and the stuff to create bio-diesel out of it is generally way more expensive and specialized. So I'll go with WMO for now and work on my skills brewing bio-diesel over the coming year.

I'll definitely be looking forward to trying my hand a different feed stocks like seaweed
all I need is lipid fats ( triglycerides ) and I can make bio-diesel
getting the reaction to complete sufficiently to allow for separation of the left over glycerin is the million dollar question

if you remember a long time ago I was looking into making pellets out of the same stuff to use as boiler fuel. The whole boiler thing went south tho as eventually the complexity of the system became prohibitive. I guess that little issue of boiler explosions also kinda put a dampener on my enthusiasms as well.

cheers
ok
climate thread

 

The problem is, it's currently more profitable to burn coal and oil then to innovate new technologies. That equation can be changed through tax policy to one where it is more profitable to find non fossil solutions.

most of the technology currently exists, it's just not cost competitive against conventional fuels. Tax the conventional fuels until the alternative becomes a better deal and change will ensue.

 

another problem is as completive fuels are developed the oil interests will keep the price of oil just below the break even point of the alt fuels

after all the oil companies don't have to pay for oil production, just the extraction, refining and delivery