What Do We Think About Climate Change

[wardd]

Originally Posted by troy2000

Are you claiming the average person will become redundant, and become a drain on society instead of contributing to it? Bushwa.....

If that were true, modern society would be doomed no matter what we do.

no where did i say that

but in the traditional sense they wont be needed to produce consumer goods

when i started out in tool and die work there were no calculators, all calculations were done pencil and paper

you worked at a manual mill or lathe and it took a great deal of time to make progressive stamping dies

today it can be made, changed 3 times and still done sooner with fewer tool makers

when i was young road crews were large, today a few people manning automated road machinery do it faster.

a hundred years ago the average person couldn't afford a boat when they were wood and made by artisans, now we have fiberglass and throw away boats made by simiskilled labor with a couple weeks of training if that

have you ever thought what a modern car would cost if not for automation?

[Guillermo]

We have seen how during the early Holocene, about 8000 years ago, there was a more reduced than today sea ice cover in some subarctic basins, whereas enhanced sea ice cover happened along the eastern Greenland margin, showing a pattern similar to the dipole anomaly observed during the 20th century.

We have also seen in previous posts how the norwegians and russians found Arctic sea ice extent began to decrease since the coming out of the LIA, more or less around 1950-1900.

Now let's have a look to the records of seasonal sea ice around Iceland since 800 AD.

Image from "Reconstructing Sea Ice Conditions in the Arctic and Sub-Arctic Prior to Human Observations" Anne de Vernal et al. - 2009

Comments:

1.- Since 800 AD until 1200 A.D., sea ice was reported to occur exceptionally.
2.- There was minimum sea ice extent during the medieval warm episode
3.- As the LIA came, seasonal sea ice began to grow and continued to do so till a maximum around 1800
4.- Ocurrence has been declining since around 1850.
5.- Present times have come back again to minumum ocurrences.



Boston is a useless illiterate idiotic lying coward.

[mydauphin]

Originally Posted by wardd

no where did i say that

but in the traditional sense they wont be needed to produce consumer goods

when i started out in tool and die work there were no calculators, all calculations were done pencil and paper

you worked at a manual mill or lathe and it took a great deal of time to make progressive stamping dies

today it can be made, changed 3 times and still done sooner with fewer tool makers

when i was young road crews were large, today a few people manning automated road machinery do it faster.

a hundred years ago the average person couldn't afford a boat when they were wood and made by artisans, now we have fiberglass and throw away boats made by simiskilled labor with a couple weeks of training if that

have you ever thought what a modern car would cost if not for automation?

Except 99% don't how to do anything, so your utopia will not happen because 99% will be unemployed slaves. There will be no one left to operate the CNC machine or care.

People are worried about climate change. Humanity is full of obese lazy dumb people who could not survive if they didn't receive help from someone else. But as those lazy ones multiply, the workers will not want to support them.

That is the true climate change...

I would not want to be around in 20 or 40 years if things keep going the way they are going.

[wardd]

Originally Posted by mydauphin

Except 99% don't how to do anything, so your utopia will not happen because 99% will be unemployed slaves. There will be no one left to operate the CNC machine or care.

People are worried about climate change. Humanity is full of obese lazy dumb people who could not survive if they didn't receive help from someone else. But as those lazy ones multiply, the workers will not want to support them.

That is the true climate change...

I would not want to be around in 20 or 40 years if things keep going the way they are going.

that's a rosy view of people

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by wardd

no where did i say that

but in the traditional sense they wont be needed to produce consumer goods

when i started out in tool and die work there were no calculators, all calculations were done pencil and paper

you worked at a manual mill or lathe and it took a great deal of time to make progressive stamping dies

today it can be made, changed 3 times and still done sooner with fewer tool makers

when i was young road crews were large, today a few people manning automated road machinery do it faster.

a hundred years ago the average person couldn't afford a boat when they were wood and made by artisans, now we have fiberglass and throw away boats made by simiskilled labor with a couple weeks of training if that

have you ever thought what a modern car would cost if not for automation?

Let's get back to your claim that there won't be enough jobs to go around in the future. That simply isn't so. While automation and technological progress eliminate jobs, they also open up new ones. What do you think happened to all those thousands of jobs related to horses, from stablehands to street sweepers to farmhands growing hay, when the horses went away?

Those jobs were replaced by new ones, from bus drivers to auto mechanics to clerks in auto parts stores, to the people working in the auto industry -- including receptionists and salesmen. Similarly, the emergence of computers will create more jobs in the long run than it has eliminated. In my industry, operations crews have melted away. But there are a whole slew of new jobs related to installing, calibrating, programming and replacing all the fancy technology that has almost eliminated operators.

Originally Posted by mydauphin

Except 99% don't how to do anything, so your utopia will not happen because 99% will be unemployed slaves. There will be no one left to operate the CNC machine or care.

People are worried about climate change. Humanity is full of obese lazy dumb people who could not survive if they didn't receive help from someone else. But as those lazy ones multiply, the workers will not want to support them.

That is the true climate change...

I would not want to be around in 20 or 40 years if things keep going the way they are going.

OK, you hold humanity in utter contempt. That's very interesting, and thank you for sharing. But fortunately, the world doesn't depend on whether you despise people or not; it keeps right on spinning anyway.

I'm always bemused by people who think their birth was the pinnacle of creation -- and believe humanity has gone downhill ever since, failing to match their splendiferous intelligence, integrity, work ethic, kindness to children and animals, etc....

[wardd]

Originally Posted by troy2000

Let's get back to your claim that there won't be enough jobs to go around in the future. That simply isn't so. While automation and technological progress eliminate jobs, they also open up new ones. What do you think happened to all those thousands of jobs related to horses, from stablehands to street sweepers to farmhands growing hay, when the horses went away?

Those jobs were replaced by new ones, from bus drivers to auto mechanics to clerks in auto parts stores, to the people working in the auto industry -- including receptionists and salesmen. Similarly, the emergence of computers will create more jobs in the long run than it has eliminated. In my industry, operations crews have melted away. But there are a whole slew of new jobs related to installing, calibrating, programming and replacing all the fancy technology that has almost eliminated operators.

OK, you hold humanity in utter contempt. That's very interesting, and thank you for sharing. But fortunately, the world doesn't depend on whether you despise people or not; it keeps right on spinning anyway.

I'm always bemused by people who think their birth was the pinnacle of creation -- and believe humanity has gone downhill ever since, failing to match their splendiferous intelligence, integrity, work ethic, kindness to children and animals, etc....

this is a revolution unlike the ones that came before and maybe the answer is shorter work weeks more vacation and earlier retirement

but above all we have to elevate education, make it available to all and make teaching a desirable career

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by wardd

this is a revolution unlike the ones that came before and maybe the answer is shorter work weeks more vacation and earlier retirement

but above all we have to elevate education, make it available to all and make teaching a desirable career

Yes, it would be nice if we went back to the work week getting shorter in this country over time. Unfortunately, it's gotten longer since 1951 rather than shorter, even though production per worker has skyrocketed.

I agree with you about education. An educated populace is not only a more productive one, but a happier one -- and harder to lead around by the nose with empty rhetoric.

[wardd]

i wonder if they understand and or care that their children and grandchildren will inherit the world they leave

they are owners and users of the planet and not custodians

you want success, the dinosaurs were around for 150 + million years, crocks longer than that

[Jimbo1490]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbR0EPWgkEI

(embed code not working)

[Boston]

another game of "find the flaw"?

sweet

ok Im in

Originally Posted by Guillermo

We have seen how during the early Holocene, about 8000 years ago, there was a more reduced than today sea ice cover in some subarctic basins, whereas enhanced sea ice cover happened along the eastern Greenland margin, showing a pattern similar to the dipole anomaly observed during the 20th century.

nice bit of pure BS there G
care to elaborate on what happened in the rest of the "some" areas of the subarctic basin
whats next a back flip with a full summy loop into a vat of ice water
once again the BS is going to be exposed G

We have also seen in previous posts how the norwegians and russians found Arctic sea ice extent began to decrease since the coming out of the LIA, more or less around 1950-1900.

Now let's have a look to the records of seasonal sea ice around Iceland since 800 AD.

gads I just love cherry picking
ok so why that specific time period G and why that specific area of the world,
was something contrary to your views indicated in any other areas of the ocean at this same time or is it that this is the only data you could come up with that supports the denialist diatribe. Virtually every post you make like this has been found to be seriously flawed and often based on the fact that you pic some specific time frame and location that is specifically cherry picked to show just what you prefer to see. There is a difference between weather and climate that often are counting on the readers to not be able to discern. Fortunately there is someone willing to point out the difference.

G you are simple not fooling anyone

what is up with picking one small area and not comparing all the data from all areas at the time.

could it be that only by cherry picking this specific area at this specific time you are able to foist off this idea that there is a fluctuation in the ice extent to a degree seen today worldwide

please who are you trying to kid

and have you actually considered other areas of the world ice may not show similar results from the same time period
or is this the only area of the worlds sea ice that has been studied for this time period and as such wouldn't it be far better to say that we have insufficient data to draw a global conclusion on. After all the difference between weather and climate is one is global and the other local. Yet you continually bring up local issues that are relatively meaningless in the global context

why don't you present all the available data concerning ice from that time period, or would that not support the diatribe

just sayin

love
B

"that's a rosy view of people" - No, just... progressives, I think. Well, there's this type, too (Meet Forest Defender. Yes, that's his real name.)



He probably works harder than I do - protesting, going on strike, passing out pamphlets, getting smoking banned... The fatlazyworthless and the tree hugger make pretty flimsey gears for the machinery of an economy.
My goodness, there has been much BS put forth as fact here lately... what next?..
Um, Oh ****. Troy's on Universal Healthcare again. Well, I refuse to address that now other than to say that he is bass ackwards on this. I am, however, not going to spend my evening teaching on this very complex subject - leave it at this; Troy, did you more cherish and take care of the girl you didn't have to earn, the one that slept with everybody in your town, or the one that didn't even kiss until almost married, the one where the family interviewed you and you had to spend the fall making hay to even be around her? A union man cannot be expected to follow me but stuff that is cheap or easy is never cheap or easy. It is how the universe has always worked and always will.
"Let's get back to your claim that there won't be enough jobs to go around in the future. That simply isn't so. While automation and technological progress eliminate jobs, they also open up new ones" - No, you understand that there will always be jobs because that is what you know. Automation and such are not the killers of jobs however - Moving jobs to other places is. Why do they move? Cheaper labor, more lenient environmental regulations, lower taxes, reasons like that.
"maybe the answer is shorter work weeks more vacation and earlier retirement" - No, the answer is working our asses off and creating wealth and more jobs..."But, But, But ptht...won't we just use up the Earth? Won't it lead to overpopulation?" No, that's what wars, droughts and disease are for. You are so quick to want to fix those ills, yet don't have a satisfactory answer for when you do find solutions. Make up your pathetic minds if you want China, Russia, India, Iran to lead the next century or you kinda like things the way they have been. Get a clue people - and pick up a shovel, as asphalt is heavy and I need your help.
"but above all we have to elevate education, make it available to all and make teaching a desirable career" - Nope. Not at all. Spending money on education for those that don't need or want it is folly. We need road crews, too.
No more lessons for the way-things-work impaired today. Why don't we let 'em discuss some new graphs and such that have just come up?

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by mark775

"that's a rosy view of people" - No, just... progressives, I think. Well, there's this type, too (Meet Forest Defender. Yes, that's his real name.)

Attachment 48239

He probably works harder than I do - protesting, going on strike, passing out pamphlets, getting smoking banned... The fatlazyworthless and the tree hugger make pretty flimsey gears for the machinery of an economy.
My goodness, there has been much BS put forth as fact here lately... what next?..
Um, Oh ****. Troy's on Universal Healthcare again. Well, I refuse to address that now other than to say that he is bass ackwards on this. I am, however, not going to spend my evening teaching on this very complex subject - leave it at this; Troy, did you more cherish and take care of the girl you didn't have to earn, the one that slept with everybody in your town, or the one that didn't even kiss until almost married, the one where the family interviewed you and you had to spend the fall making hay to even be around her? A union man cannot be expected to follow me but stuff that is cheap or easy is never cheap or easy. It is how the universe has always worked and always will.
"Let's get back to your claim that there won't be enough jobs to go around in the future. That simply isn't so. While automation and technological progress eliminate jobs, they also open up new ones" - No, you understand that there will always be jobs because that is what you know. Automation and such are not the killers of jobs however - Moving jobs to other places is. Why do they move? Cheaper labor, more lenient environmental regulations, lower taxes, reasons like that.
"maybe the answer is shorter work weeks more vacation and earlier retirement" - No, the answer is working our asses off and creating wealth and more jobs..."But, But, But ptht...won't we just use up the Earth? Won't it lead to overpopulation?" No, that's what wars, droughts and disease are for. You are so quick to want to fix those ills, yet don't have a satisfactory answer for when you do find solutions. Make up your pathetic minds if you want China, Russia, India, Iran to lead the next century or you kinda like things the way they have been. Get a clue people - and pick up a shovel, as asphalt is heavy and I need your help.
"but above all we have to elevate education, make it available to all and make teaching a desirable career" - Nope. Not at all. Spending money on education for those that don't need or want it is folly. We need road crews, too.
No more lessons for the way-things-work impaired today. Why don't we let 'em discuss some new graphs and such that have just come up?

So you're saying I can't properly appreciate ('cherish and take care of') health care unless it's unaffordable and out of reach? Tell me: what's the point of 'cherishing it,' if I can't friggen get it?!? Or if I have to bankrupt my entire family to get it?

As far as working harder goes, America's workers already put in more hours than any other industrialized country in the world, and are the most productive per worker. Isn't it a little fatuous to be giving us lectures about getting up off our lazy arses and getting to work? Not to mention insulting....

As far as education goes, everyone needs it. They need reading skills, arithmetic skills, and other skills simply to survive on a daily basis, and to understand things like mortgages and car loans. They need history and civics too, if they're going to be intelligent voters. You can't leave people ignorant, then tell them it's their own damn fault if they get snookered by a finance company, or by a mealy-mouthed political agitator who misrepresents history and the way government works.

It seems to be exceptionally stupid out tonight. It's the weird weather, I guess.

Who fed you that "per worker" crap? That's only because many don't work! Yes, we have to put in more hours to pay for YOUR union contract (that got the politician re-elected) and for those that WON'T carry their weight. Now, get back to your Freecell before you blow a gasket sticking up for the American worker.



Quick, get these two some job aps before they get away...

Education? You fool, "education" is a forum for these two (pictured) to sell their drugs and form gangs.

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by mark775

Who fed you that "per worker" crap? That's only because many don't work! Yes, we have to put in more hours to pay for YOUR union contract (that got the politician re-elected) and for those that WON'T carry their weight. Now, get back to your Freecell before you blow a gasket sticking up for the American worker.

Attachment 48240

Quick, get these two some job aps before they get away...

You can kiss my sweet heinie, because you aren't paying a dime of my union wages. Neither is any other taxpayer in the country. How many times do I have to tell you that I work for a publicly traded corporation, not a government agency, before it gets through your thick skull?

And I'm not ashamed of the fact that I'm willing to stand up for Americans who work for a living, instead of sliming them like you do.