What Do We Think About Climate Change

[Boston]

so again the question
how do we conserve resources
when to do so
feeds less people
than to not do so

for instance
the salmon fishery on the west coast just collapsed for a reason
without going into it
it bodes ill for the hole industry
and I mean fish farming industry not just salmon

we do not have a great substitute for the protein we have mined from the sea

its running out

what do we do

what resources can we conserve
we can pollute less
sure
but can we eat less
or bread less

does that reality make us anti human
or realist

how do we join together and prevent the loss of our oceans

there is no effective governing body watching over the oceans
its a free for all

we are on the brink
we have a choice

what we dont have is middle ground

without at least realizing we are on the edge
and most people are oblivious
how do we fix this

hint
the key element is saving the oceans

[the1much]

the "key" is BIRTH CONTROL
nother thing on educated people,,,,,,,,,they use numbers to disguise they have NO common sense. and yes im talking bout ANY side,,hehe

[Boston]

all good but to little to late
the globe it warming
the ocean currents slowing down
people are multiplying
food is not
fish are on the brink
it takes 260 lbs of grain to make one tank of gas
thats enough food to feed a man for a year
so
how is taking the buss going to fix this

its not
is it radical to say
we need to do more

[the1much]

nature is suppose to be "the strong survive,,,,the sick weak and stupid animals are suppose to be eatin, or killed, or let to die,,,,,,,,,,,,we're the ONLY animal that dont live by that rule,,,,,,,we PROTECT idiots and the weak,,,,,,,hence our pollutants are WAY higher then they should be. killing off a few billion people should be all thats needed for humans to survive,,,,,,,but,,,,thats common sense,,,so it'll work, but we cant let that happen,,,heh

[Boston]

bingo
now
why is it you think the w.h.o. demanded all Africans get inoculated
and then failed to provide the same number of needles as doses of inoculate
resulting it 3/4 Africans with aids getting it from needle contamination

[the1much]

it takes 260 lbs of grain to make one tank of gas
thats enough food to feed a man for a year <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<,,that used to be true when our grain was food,,,,,,,,but our grain isnt food anymore,,,,its fuel,,,,,,they dont grow "food" corn,,,,,,the corn we have now has almost NO value as food,,,its been genetically altered to produce MORE un-eatable corn to humans,,,,,its a "filler" and cattle food, and fuel.,,,,,theres only 1 place that has corn that was here 100 years ago,,,,the REAL food corn,,,,,we've been using corn for everything except for CORN as food for us. so now,,,,for us to "live" off from corn,,,we'll need at least 3 times what it used to take.

[Boston]

actually they jam corn syrup down our throats cause they have more of it than they will ever know what to do with
its kinda like fluoride
they had but loads of it
they knew it was mildly toxic
but had nothing else to do with it
so they stuck it in toothpaste and municipal water systems
and claimed it was good for teeth
stuff sure does seem to kill cavities
but
same reason it kills cavities means it kill other **** as well
ever wonder what that other **** is

corn
now that is a can of worms I should not have opened
why is it bee's are dropping like flies
or in this case like bee's

[the1much]

the bee problem will kill us before pollutants do,,,,,next year we'll have a bee population that is 60% less then 3 years ago.,,,,,and YES thats not the exact %,,, its something like 64 or so,,,but im not smat nuff to look it up again,,hehe

[Boston]

so I would reiterate

aerobic stratification of the oceans
you dont need an explanation as to why carbon is rising
it is
and it doesn't mater weather it proceeds or follows temp rise by a few hundred years
they are closely related
and
if you calculate the temp vs carbon ratio
our present temp has some catching up to do if you accept that they are related
and that does seem to be what’s happening
but carbon isnt really even the question
nor is it necessary to believe in the carbon cycle

why will aerobic stratification occur
for whatever reason
( personally I think we have a lot to do with it )
the ice is melting
fast
really fast
that rapid influx of fresh water into the marine environment overwhelms the oceans ability to mix the additional water
and the currents slow
eventually fragmenting
end of little Billy's soccer game

fishing the oceans to extinction
it wont be next year
or in ten years
its today
95/100 fish over 12 inches long are gone from the sea
we ate them
enter the theories of of Darwin's debt and trophic cascade
and the observations that prove them true
those fish species we have taken to ecological extinction are not likely to be back any time soon
name one fishery that has ever come back from commercial extinction
oh you may get some small recovery in some areas
but overall the niches once inhabited are gone
down to the bottom of the chain
trophic cascade

polluting the oceans to extinction
in 1999 visible plastic in the ocean outweighed plankton by 6/1
in 2002 the number had risen to 10/1

what do you suppose it might be today
( oh and visible plastic only makes up about 15% of the plastic load in the sea )
( the rest has turned into a snow shower of molecular plastic )
what happens if you dump 60,000,000,000 tons of plastic into the ocean
once it photo-degrades into its more indestructible constituent components
it goes into what appears to be a relatively permanent cycle of accidental ingestion
the digestive process does not break down the plastic
but plastic is a great bio toxin accumulator
and the toxins do get released by the digestive process
so not only do the animals dependant on plankton starve due to accidental ingestion
but they become so contaminated they in turn are not safe to eat by the next guy in the food chain
course the next guy doesnt know that
and down the hatch it goes
in the end
polar bears and killer whales today would qualify for burial in an epa approved barrel
penguins arent far behind

enter the rise of the microbial sea
in the gulf of mexico alone
twenty or so years ago
150 million or so green sea turtles once ate 500 billion or so pounds of turtle grass annually
and thats just counting the adults
what do you think happens when you choke the turtles out of existence with plastic bags indiscriminately dumped into the sea
aside from a tragic loss you end up with a but load of turtle grass
10.000.000.000.000 or so pounds of rotting grass in the gulf alone
what happens to that now overgrown turtle grass
it becomes diseased
virus and bacteria thrive on the biological leak from the turtle grass
and the jelly fish population explodes
now free from the predation of the turtles
who ate the plastic bags thinking they were a jellyfish sandwich
its not a pretty picture
but thats just one small scenario that has already happened
the jellyfish now own the niche that the turtles once did
except that the system is unstable as eventually the turtle grass will rot itself out of existence

enter anaerobic decline
you dont even need to have a stratification event to have an anaerobic cascade
but the global anaerobic event
has happened twice before
look at all the black slates throughout the world
the geologic record tells that tale loud and clear


give it twenty years
maybe ten
and we are going to make a lovely black slate ourselves
with little plastic inclusions
that Im sure some one will find quite attractive
on the space ship bath room floor

[Boston]

well Jimbo
I found this and couldn't resist
its just seldom I ever actually meet any one with these attitudes any more


Quote:
By most accounts CO2 in the atmosphere takes on the order of 200 years to equilibrate with the surface ocean. Hence the pH drop we've been recording is just the proverbial tip of the dry-iceberg.

( Jimbo says )
Inaccurate. The science on this subject WAS well established that co2 had a very short life in the atmosphere. The idea that it is much longer came along AFTER the AGW alarmism took on political legs and when the lab toys we call "Global Climate Models" could not produce sufficiently scary predictions with the established science, so the postulated new 'science' of 200 year old CO2. Evidence for this: NON-EXISTANT.

Quote:
Those hundreds of billions of tonnes of anthropogenic CO2, the bulk of which we've prescribed and put en route in the past 75 years, are slowly dissolving into the surface ocean.

( Jimbo says again )
Inaccurate. Large scale CO2 releases started after WWII. WWII ended 63 years ago. AGW alarmists have for years tried to stretch the time frame for anthropogenic CO2 releases. There's a simple, (and COMPLETELY scientifically dishonest) reason for doing this; it gets them around explaining why atmospheric CO2 levels were rising BEFORE significant anthropogenic CO2 releases began, meaning those increases were (and still are) due to natural causes. You'll even hear them say that "CO2 has been rising since the start of the industrial revolution, since circa 1850". This is true of course. What is NOT TRUE is that humans were releasing CO2 in any significant amount since circa 1950, and not for circa a hundred years later. Yet CO2 was indeed rising during that century. In fact, the more recent increases fit nicely on that same trend line

We wouldn't put up with such factual sloppiness from politicians. So why should we put up with it from eco/ploitical pressure groups? ******** is ******** no matter who says it.


could you please identify the “ AGW ALARMISTS “ for me Ive not met them and Ild like learn more about this agenda you speak of

so here is one of hundreds of corresponding graphs

http://i354.photobucket.com/albums/r...s/carbonem.gif


Im curious about your assessment of the rise in carbon
your saying its not human caused ok
so were did it come from
what natural causes are you talking about
if you were to identify them for us we could end this hole global climate change thing right here and now
but you refuse to point the finger at the 14,000,000,000,000,000 pounds of co2 we know humans spew into the atmosphere every year just threw burning fossil fuels
not including the rest of human activity
natural causes can best be measured in era’s proceeding the industrial revolution
and in those recent era’s carbon in the atmosphere was roughly .75% of what they are now
what natural events are you noteing
has there been a dramatic rise in termites
there has been a rise in cattle
hmmmm
must be the termites
sooooo
were are you getting your data
and were do you attribute the additional carbon as having come from

http://i354.photobucket.com/albums/r...2_graph_rt.gif

Im looking at about a hundred graphs on atmospheric carbon
and they all show pretty much the same thing

how about one relating temp to carbon

http://i354.photobucket.com/albums/r...s-CO2-Temp.gif

looks like a steady rise to me
no catastrophic natural events that I can see
just a steady correlation between fossil fuels, carbon and temp
proceeding or preceding is irrelevant

I will readily admit there are anomalies in the data
but the idea that our present rise in carbon is anything other than caused by man
simple flies in the face of hard data
there is no evidence of a natural event leading to such a dramatic rise in global carbon
occurring with in the time period noted
doesn't mean there isnt something we missed
but its becoming less and less likely every day

I think what you are saying concerning the longevity of carbon in the atmosphere
is that at some point it will level out based on the idea that as we dump carbon into the air the carbon that is already there will be metabolized out leaving a stable condition
doubtful
sounds like the classic oil industry pseudo scientist jargon
and it doesnt look like anything is leveling out to me as we should by your numbers be starting to metabolize some of that ww2 carbon right about now

that logic is kinda like the cigarette companies pseudo scientists when they told us for years cigarettes were harmless
hell the pseudo scientist cronies working for the cigarette companies still spout that crap

[the1much]

cigs aint harmless?
theres ANOTHA thing for my list,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
ya know,,,, its hard to quit smoking, when all your life EVERYBODY has told you "never be a quitter!"
hehe

[brian eiland]

Just curious Boston, why is it your postings are so disjointed in terms of text structure?? Is it some sort of 'text wrapping' function...I'm not a computer expert.

It's just a bit troubling reading your post...but I do find them very interesting

[Boston]

thanks
Im kinda one of those people who is border line savant
I speak fine
I read fine
I can walk and talk and eat and chew
I cant write to save my life
I dont use contractions well
the notation process just never made sense to me
it seems I have some wiring defect with random systems analysis
spelling and grammar fit that mold
I also get lost a lot
its frustrating
but there is an upside
I tend to have a nearly photographic memory
and facts and graphs come easily to me
I can read a paper and years later remember what is in it
being able to refer even to the given page
or see a blue print and understand about 90% of it with out the need for a second referral
it has its ups and downs
once the various universities I attended got over it
they quit trying to torture it into me
and this is best I can do

I wish I could fix it for you
I wish I could fix it for me

thanks for the ask

B

remember
all is not lost
we can effect positive change
if we only admit there is a problem to solve
and act
now
together
I do not advocate disaster
but there is a cliff ahead
we need only turn the wheel

[brian eiland]

No problem, don't worry about it....content is much more important.

I only wish my memory served me as well as it use to...I can certainly detect some loss in capability, and the need to reread many things

[Boston]

cool
but its also nice to forget some things
I often wish I could
seems Ive got sticky brain syndrome