What Do We Think About Climate Change

[hoytedow]

Cuidado! The flat-earthers might believe you and I hate soy burgers!

Hoyt, Seiously now. Never buy a "Boca Burger", as they taste like one would think they would taste. Buy the brand "Garden Burger", Cook that sucker till it crisps (IMPORTANT!), melted cheese, lettuce, tomato, catsup on a toasted bun and you will give up all but very good burgers, which cannot be improved upon.
Do this for your health and not because "they" want you to. Still kill an animal and have it for another meal. Be careful to not let the dead animals pile up by not eating too many "Garden Burgers" and maintain a balance. Provecho!


....Nay....and Yay!

[hoytedow]

Actually, Mark, I don't eat that much meat, but I like3 or 4 ounces every day. We eat a lot of fruit and grains, along with various types of vegetable soups. I just think fake meat is pretentious. How, by the way, did the cows get their farts to form deposits in the Bermuda Triangle?

[stu large]

global warming is not the point, we could handle a few more degrees heat, but the c02 we are producing is damaging our oceans from plantonic level, corals, all the way up to the top predators, and we need the oceans.
the earth can handle what were are doing to it, but we can't.

[hoytedow]

Stu, Mt. Pinatubo put out more CO2 in 1 day than mankind did in a year. Plus, undersea volcanoes constantly spew the stuff. Man cannot match nature when it comes to so-called greenhouse gases. The pH of the ocean doesn't change overall. Please cite specific evidence of CO2 affecting ocean water.

[Guillermo]

We're damaging oceans with lots of pollutants, certainly, but not with CO2.
To begin with, CO2 is not a pollutant but part of the natural cycle of life and earth crust's tectonics. Let's call it 'the breathing of Gaia'.

Cheers.

[Guillermo]

Just to gather all info about climate matters in this thread, let me pick up this post in the 'oceans under attack' thread:
Changes in Net Flow of Ocean Heat Correlate with Past Climate Anomalies

A couple of pearls from there:

"The physicists also say these changes in ocean heat-flow direction should be taken into account when predicting global climate because the oceans represent 90 percent of the total heat in the earth's climate system."

"The team believes that the oceans may change how much they absorb and radiate depending on factors such as shifts in ocean currents that might change how the deep water and surface waters exchange heat. In addition to the correlation with strange global effects that some scientists suspect were caused by climate shifts, the team says their data shows the oceans are not continuously warming—a conclusion not consistent with the idea that the oceans may be harboring "warming in the pipeline." Douglass further notes that the team found no correlation between the shifts and atmospheric carbon dioxide concentration."

Cheers.

[Tcubed]

Allways check facts.

And "ALLWAYS" check spelling (sorry, don't normally give a crap but here).
You know that almost every person who has died in a car crash in the US in the last thirty years also ate carrots at some time in the two years preceding the crash?

[Boston]

the Arctic passage opened up for shipping this summer
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8264345.stm

course the ice isnt really melting now is it

the ancient map was interesting
I read several books concerning its origins long ago
( try "the message of the sphinx" by Hapgood
its not exactly mainstream but he does make a fairly good argument for the time-line of humanity's development being a tad off
another one thats worth reading is called "forbidden archeology"
its basically a collection of anomalous archeological finds like the map you mentioned

Jim once again I appreciate the civility of your answers but none actually invalidated the examples given by numerous independent researchers and institutions concerning the realities of the isotopic fingerprint all derived by independent means

I think G was hoping for a more entertaining discussion
way to sound all disappointed G

sorry but for the rest there is little to comment on other than an honorable mention of Knut's excellently made points concerning ocean acidification

there is definitely a measurable rise in the oceans ph in the last say several hundred years

http://www.google.com/url?url=http:/...um=3&ct=legacy
Ocean Acidification

Each year the oceans absorb the equivalent of about a third of human emissions of carbon dioxide (CO2), transferring most of it to the deep ocean (13). Over the past 200 years, the increasing CO2 emissions from fossil fuel combustion have led to an exponential increase in the net amount of CO2 being dissolved in the ocean. Dissolved CO2 creates carbonic acid, which reduces the ocean pH level, making it more acidic (15).

Acidity is measured using the pH scale, where items are given a numerical value between 0 and 14. A value of seven is neutral, with higher values being described as basic and lowers values as acidic. Historically, ocean pH has averaged around 8.17, meaning that ocean waters are slightly basic. But with the rising CO2 concentration causing acidification, today the pH levels are around 8.09, edging the waters closer to neutral (16).

Geological evidence and model reconstructions indicate that, over the past 300 million years, the average pH of the ocean has not varied by more than 0.6 from its present value (14). Thus, the marine ecosystems present today have evolved in a relatively stable pH environment. With the rising CO2 concentration over the last 200 years, ocean pH has been steadily decreasing. While the acidification of the oceans is not yet itself worrisome except in polar regions, the rate at which the pH is dropping is becoming alarming. This is because the rate of change is so much higher than the natural weathering processes that have, in the past, buffered changes in ocean pH. If the CO2 concentration continues to rise and the pH level continues to fall at current rates, the ocean pH could drop by as much as 0.5 during the 22nd century (14). Such a drastic change would very likely have a substantial adverse impact on ocean life.

I suppose slow eddy may have earned a dishonorable mention with more of his ridiculous claims

Originally Posted by sloweddy106

Interestingly Boston continues to rant about those who won't swallow the KoolAid as being oil industry hacks who have surrendered their ethics for cash. Yet being a government grant whore and a parasite on the taxpayers seems to be ok. Hmmm, why is that?

working on animal conservation of endangered species is being a grant whore
hardly
actually the grant only pays my expenses
I draw no salary but instead apply for compensation after having paid my own way
and its a blind grant so as to not influence the outcome of any research being done
they esentially pay for educational materials related expenses
now that I have a paying job I take time off work to do the lectures
as apposed to what the agnotologists do which is pay out hefty benefits for deliberately skewed nonsense

nice that you were thinking of me though
can you say
97%

anyway folks fortunately the debate is fundamentally over within the scientific community and has been for some time
at this point its mainly measuring the damage and detailing possible mitigation
one thing we do mostly agree on though
it took the entire industrial revolution to screw things up this bad
we're hardly going to be able to bend enough industrial might to fix it any time soon
at least not soon enough given that species right and left are dropping like flies

cheers
B

[Knut Sand]

16,169,906,983 tons co2 emisssions, so far this year....

Click in on: http://www.worldometers.info/

Check the following;
Something is going on, caused by us or not...., We should not add to this by increaseing the speed, or keep the speed/ consumption at today's rate..... or higher...

Some points to view, use the calculator to grasp the actual sizes.

• Environment
• Forest loss this year (hectares)
• Arable land lost due to soil erosion this year (hectares)
• Carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions this year, in tons
• Current average temperature (Celsius)
• Desertification this year (hectares)
• Species that have gone extinct this year
• Toxic chemicals released by industries into our air, land, and water this year (tons)
• Kilometers Earth has traveled in space within our Solar System this year
• Tyre recycling and re-treading
• UK tyres specialist Blackcircles supports projects to recycle worn tyres, and encourages car drivers to reduce their emissions by inflating their tyres correctly. Most of our tyre brands are suitable for re-treading which extends the lifespan of the tyre.
• 
  
  
• Food
• Tons of produced food this year
• Undernourished people in the world right now
• Overweight people in the world right now
• Obese people in the world right now
• People who died of hunger today
• Money spent due to obesity related diseases in the USA today (US$)
• Money spent on weight loss programs in the USA today (US$)
  
  
• Water
• Water consumed this year (billion liters)
• Deaths from water related diseases this year
• People with no access to safe drinking water
• 
  
  
• Energy
• Energy used worldwide today (kWh), of which:
• - from non-renewable sources (kWh)
• - from renewable sources (kWh)
• Solar energy striking Earth today (kWh)
• Oil pumped today (barrels1)
• Oil left (barrels)
• Days to the end of oil 2
• Gas left (boe3)
• Days to the end of gas 2
• Coal left (boe)
• Days to the end of coal 2

• • 1) Barrel = 42 Gallons = 159 Liters
  • 2) If consumed at current rates
  • 3) Boe = barrel of oil equivalent

[Knut Sand]

Originally Posted by Boston

the Arctic passage opened up for shipping this summer
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8264345.stm

course the ice isnt really melting now is it

Boston, you're misinformed on that one; its not "open".....

The waters is, well open to physically sail in, but a sailboat trying to pull that trick will be rounded and arrested up by Russians not too pleased with that traffic....

http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/distrikt/sorlandet/1.6754623

For those not to fluent in the world language Norwegian;

"they are now escorted by the (Russian) coast guard to the coastal city Providenija....... Thay have been informed that the expected paper mill to process will at least take two weeks".

[Boston]

well it was open enough to get a couple of western commercial ships through for the first time
guess no one told them about the forms they were supposed to fill out

could have happened to anybody

of course the ice isnt really melting anyway and those two ships were just a figment of the imagination

cheers
B

[Knut Sand]

Originally Posted by Boston

guess no one told them about the forms they were supposed to fill out

could have happened to anybody

Unexpected side effects to the climate change issue.... Paperwork....

[Boston]

the oceans are warming up nicely

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stori...&zIndex=152631

http://www.underwatertimes.com/news....id=98710423615

hmmmm
do you think that might have anything to do with "global climate change"

http://www.underwatertimes.com/news....id=60532981047