What Do We Think About Climate Change

[Boston]

for those of you who know were I sorta work
I got offered a grant today to cover all my educational expenses and fees
was also asked to train the new people
( I am the new people, or thought I was )
one step closer to having a real job
oh
I got a mention at the board meeting concerning some solutions I had presented to some ongoing problems. I have a meeting with the director sometime in the next day or so. Fingers crossed mates

[masalai]

Bon chance and best wishes

[Boston]

I have a solution to an ongoing problem they have there
it entails money
so I planned a benefit black tie dinner with a local symphony playing live in the background and private tours of the facilities
got tons of friends in music producers sound engineers systems suppliers the works
I think I got a shot at pulling this off
and
I seem to be on the way to getting hired as well
wow
I never thought they would offer me a grant to continue

[Frosty]

This is a damed strange thread. I visit it ocasionaly to see whats being said but with no interest what so ever.

I have diminishing respect for those who try to out do others with petty details searched up from the internet about something no one knows anything about.

Perhaps Im missing the point here, is it that that no one knows anything that ******** is not yet ******** and anything written has therefore merit until proven wrong. That can not be done so everything has to be considered,-- meaning ******** has credence.

For those who love to dwell in ******** world here is your heaven where you can write anything and people read and consider it, and if you use really big words someone may think your clever.

It just irritates me to see it on the forum list.

[Guest625101138]

Originally Posted by Frosty

This is a damed strange thread. I visit it ocasionaly to see whats being said but with no interest what so ever.

I have diminishing respect for those who try to out do others with petty details searched up from the internet about something no one knows anything about.

Perhaps Im missing the point here, is it that that no one knows anything that ******** is not yet ******** and anything written has therefore merit until proven wrong. That can not be done so everything has to be considered,-- meaning ******** has credence.

For those who love to dwell in ******** world here is your heaven where you can write anything and people read and consider it, and if you use really big words someone may think your clever.

It just irritates me to see it on the forum list.

Frosty
This is the first post I have read on this thread for a long while. I should stop getting the email prompts.

It is exactly as you say. There are a number of people with not much to do.

I doubt anyone has changed their view based on the 189 pages of mostly BS that has been placed on the thread. The arguments entrench views and the debate is polarised so nothing changes.

I think your conclusion is the greatest insight yet offered.

Rick W

[Boston]

ya I kinda bailed out on this one

[Guillermo]

Crossing fingers for you, Boston...

Cheers.

[Boston]

thanks
I would love get on permanently
doesnt pay much but Im ok with that
and building is dead I wouldnt mind if I never build anything else again but for myself
best
B

[Knut Sand]

Well, some says it does matter what we do or what we don't do....
If we can reduce our impact that our way of living by some fraction.... Maybe that's still a sensible attitude.

http://assets.panda.org/downloads/cl...ull_report.pdf

btw; Boston; Good luck, if I read your postings correctly.

[Guillermo]

But Knut, just reading the preface from that document, it makes totally nonsense to me. First phrase:

"The world is currently facing the greatest challenge of all time. Rapid climate change is transforming the conditions under which life has persisted for millions of years."

This is absolutely untrue. Climate has changed more rapidly and dramatically than nowadays many, many times in the history of planet Earth and life has flourished in conditions much more environmentally demanding than those of the present moment.

All ice ages have been much worse for life in Earth than current times. We are living in a short warm period between glaciations to which we'll come back sooner or later. And that's what should concern us, not the slight warming we are experiencing as the planet recovers from the Little Ice Age.

Earth has also lived periods of global temperatures much higher than today (as much as 10º) with life blooming all around. Talking about our current interglacial period, the Holocene Optimum was well warmer than today for several thousands of millions of years. Even within the written history of mankind there have been warmer periods than today, as the Roman and Medieval warm periods, where the populations thrived because there was more available food and less diseases. Just the contrary to the cold Dark Ages and Little Ice Age, when famine, pandemias and depopulation were the norm.

You, norsemen, were able to grow crops and cattle in Greenland in the Medieval Warm period (which is not possible nowadays becasue temperature is lower) and were expeled out of there when the cold arrived.

Planet Earth is able today to produce enough food for more than 6.5 billion people (6500 million in european notation), precisely because the climate is mild (Bad distribution of such food is our fault, not Nature's). This in spite of the alarmist famine predictions of 30 years ago when we were around half that amount.

Coral reefs thrieved in the Myocenic, with athmospheric CO2 concentrations over 1000 ppm for 150 million years and even over 2000 ppm for several millions. Life on the planet has always adapted to the changing conditions by extinction of many species and the uprising of new ones. That's how it has been and always will be. Perhaps the humankind will have the dubious honour of auto-extinguishing itself, but our planet will survive to such extinction and life will go on without us.

I'm afraid that work you posted is just another bit of the same discredited global alarmist political agenda some of us are critizising.

Cheers.

P.S. Have a look at these news:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0423100817.htm
http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2008...7701230403966/
http://www.rsmas.miami.edu/pressrele...203-baker.html
http://portal.unesco.org/es/ev.php-U...CTION=201.html

[rasorinc]

Just more info......................
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090514...fVJvEX0VJ34T0D

[Guillermo]

rasorinc,
from the news in your post:
"Researchers do not know how quickly the shelf would collapse. But if such a large amount of ice melted steadily over 500 years it would raise sea levels by about 6.5 millimeters per year."

I'd say to that:
- first of all, they do not know if the Antarctica ice sheet is going to collapse at all. That is speculative.
- second, if it does, they do not know how quickly it would melt, as they recognize. Talking about somethinhg they do not know is again speculative.
- third: average rate for the 20th century has been around 1.5-1.8 mm/year. Tide gauge data for that century show no significant acceleration. Present rate may even be slowing down.
- fourth: sea level has rised around 130 m from its lowest level at the last Ice Age, and did it so at a maximum rate of around 4 cm a year during the Meltwater Pulse.
- fifth: during the Holocene it has nearly stopped. See attached image.

Sea levels go up and down naturally and we can do nothing to stop it. Humankind will have to adapt to whatever happens, as it has always done.

Cheers.

[Landlubber]

"as it has always done" (and always will)

that just about sums up this thread!

[Guillermo]

Infrared satellite readings show that the Earth has been getting greener (at least) since 1982, most likely thanks to warming climate which led to increased rainfall and CO2, plus the anthropogenic contribution to CO2 increases. Worldwide, vegetative activity generally increased by 6.17 percent between 1982 and 1999. This and better agricultural technologies have led to bigger and better crops around the planet. Such abundant crops have been the reason there is enough food for the present 6.7 billion people we are on the planet.

Now let's see what was being said when Earth's population was a 'mere' 4 billion people, back in 1975:

From Newsweek magazine:
...The central fact is that after three quarters of a century of extraordinarily mild conditions, the earth’s climate seems to be cooling down. Meteorologists disagree about the cause and extent of the cooling trend, as well as over its specific impact on local weather conditions. But they are almost unanimous in the view that the trend will reduce agricultural productivity for the rest of the century. If the climatic change is as profound as some of the pessimists fear, the resulting famines could be catastrophic. “A major climatic change would force economic and social adjustments on a worldwide scale,” warns a recent report by the National Academy of Sciences, “because the global patterns of food production and population that have evolved are implicitly dependent on the climate of the present century.”
http://www.denisdutton.com/cooling_world.htm

The real famine test for humanity’s farming systems will not come during warming times. It will come with cooling times, specially during the next full Ice Age, when huge sheets of ice a mile thick will once again cover Canada and Russia, and the Northern USA Plains will be too cold to farm. Then, humanity and most of the planet’s wildlife will converge on the relatively small usable land area nearer the equator, and in denser numbers than the planet has ever known.

Hopefully, that test may not come soon, but we should be prepairing for it, as even an slight cooling may threat the ability of Earth to feed humanity. Projections say in 30 years world's population numbers will probably reach a huge 9 billion figure.

What will happen if a cooling scenario comes to be true, as astrophisicists and geologists stubborngly keep on saying it will happen up to at least 2030 -2040? What if cool times come to be longer and deeper than expected?

I think our politicians and institutions should concentrate on worrying about how to produce enough food and energy for that scenario, par example by strongly boosting the investigation on the genetical engineering of a set of even higher-yielding and still more stress-tolerant crop varieties, to feed humanity from lower and lower temperatures and less and less available land, as well as promoting more nuclear plants and boosting the investigation on fusion technologies, instead of losing their time and our money in the global warming alarmism nonsense.

Cheers.

[Pericles]

A really fine explanation of the relation between the sunspot number and the microwave flux that has has changed significantly in recent years.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/05/1...lux/#more-7843

Arctic ice still melting slower than at any time in the last 7 years.

http://www.ijis.iarc.uaf.edu/seaice/...Ice_Extent.png

SOHO HO HO HO.

http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/data/...me-update.html