What Do We Think About Climate Change

[Boston]

well G Ill give you an A for effort
I wouldnt be suprised if the atmosphere breaths more than we give it credit for
nor if muons ( heavy electrons basically directly attributed to solar activity ) are a great indicator of solar activity and strength

ok found your sources and it was I who missed the labeling on the graph
my guess is you were trying to show that although overall the temp has increased that in some few local samplings there was no rise in temp
I think
although this graph seems to agree with the IPCC graphs well






and your list of scientists although at first glance daunting, kinda looks like the list that the deniers were sued for, as fully half of the folks on the list were unaware they were, and sued to have there names taken off
or was that the other list
they all look the same
short
and areas of study not listed
for all we know half those folks could be dentists

basically the primary question is still left unanswered


why wont deniers address the issue of why the huge percentage of your sources are industry paid industry published and industry spin stooges if your views are such good old fashioned wholesome independence and science as you claim?

are you ignoring the point because you have no possible rebuttal?

need I expose more phony sources commonly used by the deniers?

although I could repost the previous ignored posts 2543 2564 or 2567

Im curious
did the deniers ignore em because they exposed there sources for the industry stooges they are?
or did they ignore them because the question requires an admission of error?

why is it that a huge percentage of the sources deniers use on this thread are clearly industry stooges writing pseudo-science, funded by industry and printed in industry rags deceitfully presented as scientific journals?

why the half dozen pages of silence
is it that the readers are not fooled and the truth will out

deniers and industry representatives are using agnotology to try and deceive the public
and we the public are not fooled
time to clean up your act Mr oil and gas man

[bntii]

Originally Posted by Guillermo

Earth's Atmosphere "Breathes" More Rapidly Than Thought
By Andrea Thompson, Senior Writer

http://www.livescience.com/space/081...tmosphere.html

From there:

"The breathing-like activity is the result of high-speed solar wind disturbances that cause a recurrent expansion and contraction of Earth’s atmosphere every few days, satellite observations show. This atmospheric mode could affect radio communication, orbiting satellites and possibly the Earth's climate, researchers say."

Interesting stuff- thanks for the info

[Guillermo]

NASA Science News, Dr. Tony Philips: "The sunspot cycle is behaving a little like the stock market. Just when you think it has hit bottom, it goes even lower."

"This is the quietest sun we've seen in almost a century," agrees sunspot expert David Hathaway of the Marshall Space Flight Center.

In 2008, the sun set the following records:
- A 50-year low in solar wind pressure
- A 12-year low in solar “irradiance”
- A 55-year low in solar radio emissions

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2...larminimum.htm

[Boston]

then we are really in big trouble G
also from the article you quoted

Quiet suns come along every 11 years or so. It's a natural part of the sunspot cycle, discovered by German astronomer Heinrich Schwabe in the mid-1800s. Sunspots are planet-sized islands of magnetism on the surface of the sun; they are sources of solar flares, coronal mass ejections and intense UV radiation. Plotting sunspot counts, Schwabe saw that peaks of solar activity were always followed by valleys of relative calm—a clockwork pattern that has held true for more than 200 years: plot.

The current solar minimum is part of that pattern. In fact, it's right on time. "We're due for a bit of quiet—and here it is," says Pesnell.

my thinking is that I agree with you G on at least one thing if only in part the sun cycle should be closely tied to the co2/temp cycle at least in the short term and except for various other mitigating events
unfortunately since the solar cycle is at a hundred year low I would think that temp would also be at a hundred year low
again baring other mitigating circumstances
but its not
it would seem that the sun is temporarily dimming and the earth is steadily warming up anyway
e gads whats going to happen as we approach the solar maximum

Global Temperature Trends: 2008 Annual Summation

Originally posted Dec. 16, 2008, with meteorological year data. Updated Jan. 13, 2009, with calendar year data.

Calendar year 2008 was the coolest year since 2000, according to the Goddard Institute for Space Studies analysis [see ref. 1] of surface air temperature measurements. In our analysis, 2008 is the ninth warmest year in the period of instrumental measurements, which extends back to 1880 (left panel of Fig. 1). The ten warmest years all occur within the 12-year period 1997-2008. The two-standard-deviation (95% confidence) uncertainty in comparing recent years is estimated as 0.05°C [ref. 2], so we can only conclude with confidence that 2008 was somewhere within the range from 7th to 10th warmest year in the record.

Jim
its gotten strangely silent round here

the questions are straight forward

why do the deniers constantly quote from industry representatives

why do deniers so consistently quote from industry news magazines deceitfully presented as scientific journals

why wont deniers address the issue of why the huge percentage of there sources are industry paid industry published and industry spin if they have no affiliation with industry

[Guillermo]

Only laterally related to this thread's debate, I find this of interest.

Job Losses From Obama Green Stimulus Foreseen in Spanish Study
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=a2PHwqAs7BS0

"For every new position that depends on energy price supports, at least 2.2 jobs in other industries will disappear, according to a study from King Juan Carlos University in Madrid.

The premiums paid for solar, biomass, wave and wind power - - which are charged to consumers in their bills -- translated into a $774,000 cost for each Spanish “green job” created since 2000, said Gabriel Calzada, an economics professor at the university and author of the report."

Gabriel Calzada has a doctorate in Economy, is a professor at the King Juan Carlos University and the chairman of the Juan de Mariana Institute

http://www.juandemariana.org/articul...mpleos/verdes/

[Boston]

well if we're going way off subject Ive been looking at DIY vertical wind turbine generators
a dam nice one can be made for less than $500 with all bits and pieces available on line from an outfit called Windblue
I was thinking of counter rotating rig one part spins the stator the other the rotor in series with each section being about three feet long and three in diameter
add sections to add power

in a dream I had it horizontally mounted under the canopy of the Elco 57
I think I could fit at least five alternators maybe seven and move the wherry to the top when not sailing
with solar cells on top

was a nice dream

oh
the number of homeowners the homeowner relief pachage has actually helped
is
drum roll please
1
according to CNN just the other day

brilliant plan kids

back to dreaming about the boat

[Guillermo]

As some of you may have expected, some members of the RealClimate.ORG have always been sane. They have evaluated the Heartland Institute's conference of climate realists and determined the the science is settled.

The realists have always been right, the group now says, which is why their propagandistic website, RealClimate.ORG, can finally be abolished:

Farewell to our readers:
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php...o-our-readers/

From there:
1 April 2009
Farewell to our Readers
Filed under: Climate Science— group @ 11:22 AM
We would like to apologize to our loyal readers who have provided us so much support since we first went online in December 2004. However, after listening to the compelling arguments of the distinguished speakers who participated in the Heartland Institute's recent global warming contrarian conference, we have decided that the science is settled — in favor of the contrarians. Indeed, even IPCC chair Rajendra Pachauri has now admitted that anthropogenic climate change was a massive hoax after all. Accordingly, RealClimate no longer has a reason for existence. The contrarians have made a convincing case that (a) global warming isn't happening, (b) even if it is, its entirely natural and within the bounds of natural variability, (c) well, even if its not natural, it is modest in nature and not a threat, (d) even if anthropogenic warming should turn out to be pronounced as projected, it will sure be good for us, leading to abundant crops and a healthy environment, and (e) well, it might actually be really bad, but hey, its unstoppable anyway. (Can we get our check now?)

[bntii]

Lots of "realism" going around today

[Boston]

they got hacked G
give it a day or two as the hackers have obviously got a hold of the passwords and security measures

if you look there are no blog comments linked to that statement
probably disabled by the hackers

if Im wrong on this I owe you a bunch of beer
if not
you owe me a few
B

ps
is pretty dam funny
they just might have to rebuild the hole site
if those guys changed all the codes its going to take em a while
Im laughing my ass off over here

what happened to Jim this silence is really not like him
other than making him eat his words from time to time
I hope he is ok
B

maybe he is one of the hackers

[Tcubed]

Happy April's fool day!


Hahahahaha.

[Boston]

is pretty dam funny if you ask me
gotta admit
great sense of humor and right smart timing
some fools been planning this for quite some time
I give em an A for ingenuity but a D for scientific awareness

[BillyDoc]

Boston, more info on vertical wind turbines here: http://PoiesisResearch.com/Power.php

Take a look at "Wind Turbine Blade Construction."

BillyDoc

[Boston]

hey thanks billy
ya I got onto a page called windblue and they have all the replacement guts for re manufacturing those alternator cases

its the quarrel cage that's the fun part
check out the this thread
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/pro...-new-post.html

the magnetic bearings are the trick if you ask me and even they aren't any big deal and you still have the races which I was thinking could be roller bearings from an auto engine
so the weight of the cage would be suspended on a field and the thrust of the system would be contained by the bearings

am curious about the torque though if I string a few together in a counter rotating linear array

[Guillermo]

SWANSON AND TSONIS: HAS THE CLIMATE RECENTLY SHIFTED?

http://www.wisn.com/weather/18935841/detail.html

"The climate is known to be variable and, in recent years, more scientific thought and research has been focused on the global temperature and how humanity might be influencing it.

However, a new study by the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee could turn the climate change world upside down.

Scientists at the university used a math application known as synchronized chaos and applied it to climate data taken over the past 100 years.

Scientists said that the air and ocean systems of the earth are now showing signs of synchronizing with each other.

Eventually, the systems begin to couple and the synchronous state is destroyed, leading to a climate shift.

"In climate, when this happens, the climate state changes. You go from a cooling regime to a warming regime or a warming regime to a cooling regime. This way we were able to explain all the fluctuations in the global temperature trend in the past century," Tsonis said. "The research team has found the warming trend of the past 30 years has stopped and in fact global temperatures have leveled off since 2001."

The most recent climate shift probably occurred at about the year 2000."


Draft of Swanson's and Tsonis paper:
http://www.uwm.edu/~kswanson/publica...037022_all.pdf

From there:
"It has been hypothesized that the planetary radiative budget in recent decades has been out of balance due to radiative forcing by greenhouse gasses and lags in the oceanic response, with absorption exceeding emission by roughly 0.8 Wm−2 around the turn of the century [Hansen et al. 2005]. Since then, by itself increasing CO2 concentrations of roughly 20ppm should have further added roughly 0.2Wm−2 to this top-of-the-atmosphere excess of absorption over emission. Assuming a mixed layer ocean depth of 200 m, an anomaly of roughly 1 Wm−2 should in principle have been sufficient to drive roughly a 0.25ºC increase in global temperature since 2001/02. That such warming has not occurred suggests an internal reorganization of the climate system has offset this presumptive ra-diative imbalance, either via an anomalously large uptake of heat by the deep ocean or a direct offset of the greenhouse gas forcing by a shift in cloud forcing."

[Guillermo]

Are there connections between the Earth's magnetic field and climate?
Vincent Courtillot, Yves Gallet, Jean-Louis Le Mouël, Frédéric Fluteau and Agnès Genevey
Paléomagnétisme et Géomagnétisme, Institut de Physique du Globe de Paris, Institut de recherches associé au CNRS, 4 place Jussieu, 75231 Paris Cedex 05, France
Centre de Recherche et de Restauration des Musées de France, France
Received 11 July 2006; revised 19 October 2006; accepted 19 October 2006.


Abstract
Understanding climate change is an active topic of research. Much of the observed increase in global surface temperature over the past 150 years occurred prior to the 1940s and after the 1980s. The main causes invoked are solar variability, changes in atmospheric greenhouse gas content or sulfur due to natural or anthropogenic action, or internal variability of the coupled ocean–atmosphere system. Magnetism has seldom been invoked, and evidence for connections between climate and magnetic field variations have received little attention. We review evidence for correlations which could suggest such (causal or non-causal) connections at various time scales (recent secular variation 10–100 yr, historical and archeomagnetic change 100–5000 yr, and excursions and reversals 103–106 yr), and attempt to suggest mechanisms. Evidence for correlations, which invoke Milankovic forcing in the core, either directly or through changes in ice distribution and moments of inertia of the Earth, is still tenuous. Correlation between decadal changes in amplitude of geomagnetic variations of external origin, solar irradiance and global temperature is stronger. It suggests that solar irradiance could have been a major forcing function of climate until the mid-1980s, when “anomalous” warming becomes apparent. The most intriguing feature may be the recently proposed archeomagnetic jerks, i.e. fairly abrupt ( 100 yr long) geomagnetic field variations found at irregular intervals over the past few millennia, using the archeological record from Europe to the Middle East. These seem to correlate with significant climatic events in the eastern North Atlantic region. A proposed mechanism involves variations in the geometry of the geomagnetic field (f.i. tilt of the dipole to lower latitudes), resulting in enhanced cosmic-ray induced nucleation of clouds. No forcing factor, be it changes in CO2 concentration in the atmosphere or changes in cosmic ray flux modulated by solar activity and geomagnetism, or possibly other factors, can at present be neglected or shown to be the overwhelming single driver of climate change in past centuries. Intensive data acquisition is required to further probe indications that the Earth's and Sun's magnetic fields may have significant bearing on climate change at certain time scales.


Attached figure from the paper:
Time evolution over the 20th century of the eleven-year running averages of magnetic indices based on modulus of the geomagnetic field at the Eskdalemuir and Sitka observatories (ESK and SIT) compared to solar irradiance S(t) and global mean temperature Tglobe