What Do We Think About Climate Change

[Boston]

read it
sounded to me like it was just one disgruntled dissenter ( this Pope person ) who is doing all the disclaiming

thing is most of the changes we are seeing are happening "faster" than the predictions called for

as for the weather in Brittan I believe it was predicted that the UK would cool down with the slowing in the gulf stream and shortly after that winters in western Europe would also become harsher

that slowing caused of course by freshwater entering the marine thermohaline system due to exesive melting brought on by
you guessed it kids
global warming

course I read all that a while ago so there may be addendum's Im not aware of but
something to chew on

best
B

oh
and yes the overall effect of global warming is cooling resulting in an ice age with the initial stages being the slowing and collapse of the thermohaline system

not the prolonged extreme high temps that are often associated with the misinformed

the higher temps are a short term obvious result
the longer term result is a ice age
and a big one

can you say snowball earth theory




hows that for the sky is falling kids
"alarming" isnt it

best B

[Guillermo]

In October 2005 there was an abrupt and sustained lowering of the Ap Solar Magnetic Index. The sun has been running at a lower plateau of the Ap index after that event and has not recovered.

There is a good correlation between the Ap Index at minimum and the amplitude of the following solar cycle. This Index may have a value of 3 in late 2009, this leading to a very weak solar cycle 24 (when it appears!).

Read more at:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/02/1...ion/#more-5568

[bntii]

Originally Posted by rasorinc

I really need some help by the math wizzards on this panel.
The US just passed a 800 Billion package. With interest @ 7% that debt will double in 7 years to 1.6 Trillion. Our population is 300 Million people.
I want 300 Million people divided into 1.6 Trillion so I know what every individual person would owe. Then deduct 75 million people who pay no taxes and that leaves 225 Million people. Divide 1.6 Trillion by 225 Million
people and then I will know what my children and grandchildren will individually
owe.
Thank You Very Much, Stan Rasor, State of Oregon, USA

Your grandchildren will likely see a profit.

Think of this government largess as a investment in our country. If you look to historical acts for comparison you may find that this is not a wasted effort.

Take a look to the Servicemen's Readjustment Act of 1944 - the GI bill. This could be viewed as the last gasp of the New Deal government investments in our economy of that period. The wisdom of this spending is abundantly clear.

Here is a bit on the subject:

"The 1944 Servicemen’s Readjustment Act, or G.I. Bill of Rights, attracts universal praise as one of the most significant pieces of social legislation of the twentieth century for its redeeming effects on both the national economy and its beneficiaries."

"In 1988, congress was interested in discovering if the GI Bill of Rights had helped or hurt the economy, and how much it had. The Congressional Subcommittee of Education and Health of the Joint Economic Committee did a study of the effects of the GI Bill of Rights to answer this outstanding question. They found that it caused an extra $35 billion (1952 dollars) to be created over the next 35 years. It also brought in, in this 35 post-war period, an extra $12.8 billion (1952 dollars) of taxes. Overall, they found that for every $1 invested, there were $6.9 in return.

"The GI Bill of Rights gave many veterans a free education and cheap home-loans. This helped in the economy in more than one way. Not only did it prevent a flood of workers from creating a post-war depression, as had happened after World War One, it also created a more productive economy. Veterans with an education could make more money and helped to build a more sound economy than could have ever been done without their educations."

The "Federal-Aid Highway Act of 1956" worked towards building our interstate highways. This government investment had profound effects on our growth.

The tension we see across the isle on these issues reflects a difference in approach. To my mind this difference is characterized by short term stimulus on one hand and investment on the other.

The division is not so wide as the histrionics of the debate would suggest. 60/40 vs 40/60 investment/stimulus vs stimulus/investment more or less...

One might conclude that even this difference is imaginary if the hundreds of billions Bush extended in failed short term stimulus efforts are included in the accounting.

[Boston]

interesting stuff

if we have a economy with say 11 trillion in us dollars around the world
and we add 4 trillion which is what they are saying this will probably cost in the end
how can it not devalue each dollar

dont get me wrong I liked the previous
but what percentage of the ttl money in the economy did the GI bill add to the ttl

as apposed to what percentage we are talking about adding today

I agree we need to spend on infrastructure and education big times
they have been neglected way to long

but not on bailing out banks and biz
which is were about 600 billion has already disappeared to with no appreciable effect

that is already twice what they are saying is in the bill for infrastructure, education and energy combined

infrastructure
120 billion
education
100 billion
renewable energy
30 billion
212 billion in tax breaks ( imaginary money gov isnt going to print this up its just that they arent collecting it from the population )
267 billion for unemployment benefits and food stamps

[the1much]

HAHAHHahhahahahahahaa
been months,,, and my birds are still a WAY better investment then anything else,, hahahahahaha ,, last month i sold over 1200 baby chicks,,, @ $3 a piece,, at the cost to me of $.80 a piece..... hmmmmm hahahhaa

[Jimbo1490]

that slowing caused of course by freshwater entering the marine thermohaline system

I guess you missed the post, Oh about 20 or so pages back, where I cited the WORLD'S LEADING EXPERT on oceanic currents who stated rather flatly that "There really is no thermo-haline circulation current of any significance-there can't be".

It was after all, just a THEORY that some scientists used at one time to account for pelagic mixing of hot and cold waters. Nothing more than a theory, now discredited.

Jimbo

[the1much]

hiyas Jimbo Boston bntii Guillermo Rick
glad ta see ya allz again,, and that all is well hehe

[bntii]

hey Jim

good investment them little birds...?

I have been looking all over the eastern shore of Maryland for a bit of land- on occasion there is a property listed with the whole set up in place- buildings birds- contract with purdue.. the whole shooting match. Not too much $ it seems as well for the size of lot offered and all that stuff in place...

Of course the whole place is going under water if jimbo is wrong about the AGW thingamajiggy

[the1much]

Originally Posted by bntii

hey Jim

good investment them little birds...?

I have been looking all over the eastern shore of Maryland for a bit of land- on occasion there is a property listed with the whole set up in place- buildings birds- contract with purdue.. the whole shooting match. Not too much $ it seems as well for the size of lot offered and all that stuff in place...

Of course the whole place is going under water if jimbo is wrong about the AGW thingamajiggy

there isnt NO $ in commercial meat birds,, here,, its laying hens, and roo's to eat, and bug control.. lol. people are all getting ready for the big "kaaaplunk" and figure their gonna need some meat and eggs,, lol,, people will stop in and buy $100 worth almost every 2 or 3 days,, i bet i get 20 or so people here a day buying at least $20 worth of chicks,, lol.

to keep on the subject,,, bugs are getting way worse here,,,, climate change ?????????

[Sean Herron]

Hello...

The old man on the river in his shanty has us all beat...

Yup...

SH.

[the1much]

Originally Posted by Sean Herron

Hello...

The old man on the river in his shanty has us all beat...

Yup...

SH.

he sure does,,,,, im gonna try to get that way,,, imma moving close to canada lol,, gonna try the self sufficiency thingy,, have the garden, the animals, live on a mountain, do my hunting and trapping,, and make the wifers get a real job

[Sean Herron]

Hello...

Hope you are well - stay to topic though - this is a psuedo SCIENCE thread - oh ****...

I would like you to check in on - http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/ope...use-26074.html - as it gets going...

Happy St. Valentines Day my friend...

Lots of burps and farts...

SH.

[bntii]

Hear you jim- not on board exactly with the SHTF way of thinking but do want to get a little elbow room in the next couple of years.

Feel trapped- its like all those godzila flicks.

It's the bus full of people that always gets snatched up and tossed up in the air by the big lizard

[Boston]

I read it
just that I was laughing so hard at the idea that tens of thousands of scientists and hundreds of years of countless sailors working those thermohaline currents and trades were just imagining it all
I guess I just didnt take it seriously

basically you found someone who is denying the gulf stream exists or that the southern ocean circulation is real or the Atlantic current ( canary islands )
the Labrador current
all are well known and studied
no way there existence is in question
why they move, how fast they move, where they move from and were they move to, is well understood








also if you are willing to consider the circulation then it becomes obvious why the arctic is melting faster than the antarctic
kinda lends credence to the hole circulation theory when there is corroborating evidence like that

[Jimbo1490]

Nobody's denying the freakin' Gulfstream exists! That's yet another example (of sooo many) of the absolute silliness that comes from the mouth (keyboard ) of 'Boston'! What he (and others) are saying is that these currents ARE NOT driven by salinity/temperature differences, which is what the 'thermo/haline' theory suggests.

Furthermore, these currents ARE NOT the main mixing forces of the cold and warm waters, as was once believed. This is important because the implication of the idea that there is a significant thermo/haline circulation, and this is the main mixing mechanism for warm and cold water, is that the pelagic system is yet another unstable equilibrium that could potentially be upset by climate change, and go 'off the rails', never to return.

Now the main mixing mechanism is said to be eddies, which are ultimately wind driven.

Jimbo