What Do We Think About Climate Change

[Guillermo]

Yes, 'Masa' Jimbo!

[Knut Sand]

Originally Posted by Guillermo

Yes, 'Masa' Jimbo!

Think I'll second that one....

Btw to add some intelligent commets here, I just bought a 3Dconnection mouse (Still using the track ball mouse...).. When ready installed, i downloaded some extra program for the "google earth", soooo now (last evening) I've "flown" in the Alps, Great canyon, Rift valley, New York; San Fransisco, Paris..... Buildings, bridges; pop up, generated in 3D. Damn! really annoying!

Guillermo; thanks for the link about Helheim glacier.. Seem that with earthquakes underneath, the behaviour will be pretty difficult to predict/ understand. So now its only left (for me) to understand the word "readvance"... is that an actual increase/ build up or a reduced advance? (Im not inglish..) ...

btw; Guillermo; where did you find that figure?

[bntii]

Originally Posted by Jimbo1490

I keep telling you people, warmers and skeptics alike, glacial retreat is not your ally; it's just too tricky to be relied on to prove anything one way or another.

Jimbo

In the time scales we are discussing perhaps..

Losing the glaciers over PA was as good an indicator as any the the last ice age had seen its day.

"The trend is your friend"

[Guillermo]

Knut,
Now you can even dive under the sea with Google Earth 5.0!
More smileys here:
http://www.mysmiley.net/

Cheers.

[Jimbo1490]

Originally Posted by bntii

In the time scales we are discussing perhaps..

Anthropogenic CO2 is less than a century old so that's the time scale we are stuck with and therefore I'll stand by my statement.

Jimbo

[Boston]

Eh gads Jim I think I got to go with your post 1997 as the glacial calving is about as fickle as it gets
but
thickness and area are a hole nother story
with both thickness and area falling

thing is as glassier s warm they move faster and so calving increases
so it may look like one thing and actually be another
very tricky to know whats what just looking at the calving rates

best
B

[Guillermo]

Pretty interesting:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/02/0...ate/#more-5425

From there:
"Looking at this plot of the 30 day slopes of actual NASA gridded data, the maximum ice melt rate occurs in 1999 and in 2004 not in 2007. Surprisingly the maximum ice growth rates occur in 2007 and 2008, ....

Certainly the 30 year arctic trend in ice area is downward, even the most committed global warming scientist has to admit this happens regularly in climate along with regular 30 year uptrends. The questions are, did we cause it or not, and was CO2 the instigating factor. The rapid recovery of ice levels has to have some meaning regarding the severity of the problem. This goes directly in the face of accelerated global warming and the doom and gloom scenarios promoted by our politicians and polyscienticians."

Cheers.

[Guillermo]

Playlist: Global Warming, Doomsday Called Off
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_lis...12004CB098DE90

Cheers.

[bntii]

Back to Helheim...

Sorry for no analysis just a c&p:

Science Summary:
Recent discoveries have made it clear that our understanding of the dynamics of flow at large outlet glaciers is limited and inadequate for understanding the ways in which the outlet glaciers, and the ice sheets they drain, respond to external forcings. The spectrum of timescales over which significant velocity variations in outlet glacier flow can occur appears to be much broader than previously believed, with significant variations occurring on timescales of 10s of seconds to several years. Analysis of glacial earthquakes suggests that significant volumes of ice may move at speeds 1000 times faster than their average annual velocities for periods of a minute or two and a doubling of average annual flow speeds over only a few years has been observed at some glaciers. Multiple observations now indicate that glacier flow behavior can respond quickly to environmental changes, including rapid climate change. It is not currently clear, however, what mechanisms or combination of mechanisms allow for, or drive, the temporal variations, nor is it clear how variations in flow behavior at different timescales are related to one another. This grant funds an interdisciplinary, high-resolution study involving remote sensing and field investigations at two of Greenland's largest outlet glaciers. The study of the Helheim and Kangerdlugssuaq Glaciers will integrate seismological, glaciological, and geodetic observations to build an understanding of flow dynamics at major outlet glaciers. The project will provide the first long-term occupation of an outlet glacier by a GPS receiver network, and address questions of flow variation on earthquake to interannual time scales. Understanding the changes in force balance that control variations across the range of timescales from minutes to years requires observations at higher resolution in both space and time than are currently available, and achieving a comprehensive picture of the interactions between short- and long-timescale processes, and between external forcings and glacier flow behavior, requires the integration of data and expertise from several traditionally separate disciplines. Intellectual Merit. The research will lead to a greatly improved understanding of the dynamics of flow at the large, fast-moving outlet glaciers that drain the Greenland ice sheet and of the temporal variability in their rates and modes of flow. It will provide insight into the processes controlling glacial earthquakes and possible connections between glacial-earthquake activity and global climate change. Broader Impacts. Understanding the controls on flow configuration at major outlet glaciers, and the timescales over which they may respond to climatic forcing, is of great importance for proper modeling of systems affected by the transfer of fresh polar meltwater to the world's oceans. A better understanding of glacier and ice-sheet response to climate change will allow for improvements in modeling of the coupled ice ocean atmosphere system, and of its interactions with the solid Earth. The geodetic instrumentation and processing techniques developed under this proposal will benefit researchers in a variety of environments such as glacier and volcano monitoring involving rapid, large-scale motions and the risk of instrument loss.

From here:

http://www.polar.ch2m.com/arlss_repo...ropnum=0713970

[Guillermo]

We are pioneering CO2 capturing in Europe.
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/10...spain-in-2009/
If AGW is not relevant, this investment (70 million euros) may come to be a sad waste of efforts and money.....

More on CO2 capturing: http://www.energypolicyblog.com/?p=22
After reading the article, have a look at the interesting comments.

Cheers.

[Boston]

ah
but if AGW is relevant
then it is money well spent and none to soon
and isnt it better to be safe than sorry
specially when there is a few hundred years and a few billions lives between fixing it

[Guillermo]

Interesting concepts: Energy Intensity and Economic Energy Efficiency
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_intensity
We should be rather investing such huge amount of moneys in these matters (moving towards the right top corner)



Cheers.

[bntii]

Just heard that the economic downturn has dropped the bottom out of the market for carbon credits.....

Sounds like one of my investments

B- how did you do on Friday?

I was slightly down on a bullish day.... now that's talent!

[Jimbo1490]

Originally Posted by Boston

ah
but if AGW is relevant
then it is money well spent and none to soon
and isnt it better to be safe than sorry
specially when there is a few hundred years and a few billions lives between fixing it

It will be a waste either way because as hard as we may try, we can't cut CO2 releases by 75-90% no matter what we do, no matter how much we spend trying. Little fractions of a % cuts will do nothing and that's the best estimates of the sum total of all these efforts put together will cut.

Jimbo

[Boston]

friend of mine I just had a few pints with says they got a bacteria for everything somewhere, its just a matter of cultivation and presentation.
Swears we got one that eats co2 waiting in the wings for enough money to open up the doors to that lab and let it in. Personally as long as they dont bio engineer it to create some kind of new radiation or otherwise accidentally kill off everything that ever lived; I say lets see what they can come up with. Was an interesting conversation, you guys would have loved it
B