Turmoil in Egypt

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by wardd

huh??

It isn't really that hard... Mark is saying that people are using the situation in Vulkyn's country, and the upheaval in his life, as simply an excuse to further their own agendas.

[wardd]

Originally Posted by troy2000

It isn't really that hard... Mark is saying that people are using the situation in Vulkyn's country, and the upheaval in his life, as simply an excuse to further their own agendas.

I have an agenda here?

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by wardd

I have an agenda here?

You tell me...

"Are liberals innocent?"

"absolutely, I hope she runs for president"

"why not loan him mc cain and palin
they are surplus"

"I've never read her tweets, nor anybodies for that matter
my objection to her is her being the leader of the country scares me crapless"

I'm guilty of straying 0ff-topic now and then myself. But what say we keep in mind that this is Vulkyn's thread, about what's happening in his native land and his own neighborhood? It isn't a thread about American politics.

[Vulkyn]

The anti mubark campaign is gaining momentum. yesterday around 2 million people protested in Tahrir square (not counting other cities like alex). They also protested in front of the ministry forcing the minsters to move to another location as well as the house of senates (Magles el Shoraa - not sure if its the proper translation) asking for both the house of senates and the NDP to resign immediately..

Every one who has a problem is now seeking Tahrir square as a means of reaching officials.
A few acters / singers where kicked out of tahrir square who tried to talk to the people there asking them to wait for the next presidential elections.

The anti-mubark campaign has also denounced the counter political parties to NDP since they agreed and met with Mubark's 2nd in command saying that they are not represented by them.

The problem with Anti- mubark is they all agree on reform and demand to remove President mubark but are split in terms of political agendas and finding their own political voice and mubark made it quite clear he will leave ONLY at the end of his term.

-----

On a side note 2 houses where robbed yesterday next to my father inlaws place, we are staying up till 4-5 and some later dunno how it happened though :S

[Doug Lord]

Originally Posted by Vulkyn

The anti mubark campaign is gaining momentum. -----

On a side note 2 houses where robbed yesterday next to my father inlaws place, we are staying up till 4-5 and some later dunno how it happened though :S

=========
Vulkyn, you are a remarkable voice in the midst of this crisis-thanks for your
contribution. I wish you ,your family and all of Egypt the best -good luck!

[Boston]

No kidding Doug
I've got beer and popcorn and am hanging on each post
its an amazing time over there and we're privileged to have an inside man keeping us posted
thanks again V
B

and sorry to hear about your father in laws house
stay safe
cheers

[wardd]

I heard the us is talking directly to the military and omar and bypassing mubarak

[rasorinc]

Vulkyn, exactly where are you located. I can google up an areal map of where you live and post it here if you OK the idea. Stan

[Boston]

Hey Vulkyn
a friend of mine just asked about the banks over there freezing accounts of political figures and other rich people involved in govt. Do you have any knowledge of whats going on in the financial sector.

thanks
B

[Doug Lord]

Originally Posted by rasorinc

Vulkyn, exactly where are you located. I can google up an areal map of where you live and post it here if you OK the idea. Stan

------
Probably not a good idea-even generally-at a time like this! No telling who's listening/watching....

[ancient kayaker]

Originally Posted by Leo Lazauskas

... I am just trying to work out what the supporters of the current regime think. They must know that torture is routinely used, but they still continue to support that regime ...

I doubt the general populace of a country which has recently recovered from extreme instability actively supports the torture-using aspect of its regime. They are happy to have stability by whatever means, they hope it doesn’t happen to them, and don’t rock the boat. One is free to develop outrage over abuses of human rights once one's own life and liberty are not at risk. This probably take a generation to develop.

Originally Posted by Leo Lazauskas

... I'm also interested in what might happen if the regime is over-thrown. Is it likely that there would be "Nuremberg-like" trials of the torturers and those who forced individuals to carry out the horrors? ...

Picking over the pieces to find the culprits rarely does much good, it is only a source of revenge, and as you noted it usually turns out that few indeed are totally innocent. The majority of those involved in such activities are perfectly ordinary individuals who were forced to do so by circumstances or by threat. Although desensitization happens over time the people involved are quite able to figure out that it can happen to them, they know what will happen to them if their protection is removed, but may not feel empowered to initiate changes. And so it goes on ...

Of course, one may feel differently about revenge if one has been the subject of systematic abuse and slaughter; I suppose such violence can effect those on both sides equally.

[Doug Lord]

Vulkyn, can you shed any light on this report from MSNBC:

Fighting on Sinai Peninsula
Council on Foreign Relations
Question: There has been a little coverage of fighting in the Sinai Peninsula, including reports that anti-government protesters have taken over government facilities in the north. Is there a clear picture of what’s going on there?

Answer from Robert Danin, Eni Enrico Mattei Senior Fellow for Middle East and Africa Studies with the Council on Foreign Relations and a former deputy assistant secretary of state for Near Eastern Affairs:
We don’t have a clear picture of what’s going on, though we do know that the gas pipeline connecting Israel and Egypt has been severed, and that Egyptian authorities are engaged in armed fighting with Sinai Bedouin. The Sinai has always been difficult for the government to rule, and there are indications that the authorities in Cairo have lost control of the situation, at least in parts of the region. You have a diverse range of militant groups, ranging from armed Bedouin to Somali warlords, roaming the terrain. Sinai smuggling has always been lucrative and somewhat unfettered, and with Egyptian authorities focused on developments in the major population centers, primarily Cairo and Alexandria, it is not surprising that these disparate elements would seek to exploit the situation.

.

[Leo Lazauskas]

Originally Posted by troy2000

You're getting a little snotty, Leo. Not just in that post, but in several others also. Why the chip on your shoulder? If you want to insult the US and Americans, I suggest you start a new thread for that and leave Egypt out of it. They're busy with their own problems right now, and don't need you butting in with your own agenda.

Yes. There are plenty of politicians in this country who've spoken out about Egypt's human rights record -- and Saudi Arabia's, too. I could quote them, but I think it might be educational (and humbling) for you to do the research yourself.

The USA, UK and Australia (among others) have propped up those regimes for many years so I include them as contributory causes.

Originally Posted by troy2000

They're busy with their own problems right now, and don't need you butting in with your own agenda.

Get a grip, Troy. It is completely ridiculous to think that debates on this group have any immediate effect in Egypt.

[Leo Lazauskas]

Originally Posted by ancient kayaker

Of course, one may feel differently about revenge if one has been the subject of systematic abuse and slaughter; I suppose such violence can effect those on both sides equally.

There are many possible ways this could go. It could end like South Africa after Apartheid, with some kind of reconciliation, or it could end with, as Suleiman warned yesterday, "with un-calculated and hasty steps, including lots of irrationalities".

Human-rights abuse trials against the perpetrators will satisfy some people; not having them could also inflame many others. It will be interesting to see how matters develop in Egypt.

[Leo Lazauskas]

Originally Posted by Boston

Hey Vulkyn
a friend of mine just asked about the banks over there freezing accounts of political figures and other rich people involved in govt. Do you have any knowledge of whats going on in the financial sector.

While you are at it, is there any chance the disturbances could affect the operation of the Suez canal?