Traditions and ceremonies

[safewalrus]

Permit me a 'laymans' view! whilst 'copyright' is rightfully placed on something that is personal i.e. belongs to one person because they created it etc. (e.g. a piece of music written by someone - that is 'his') I find that something like a 'public' picture as per the ones mentioned is pushing it a bit much - anybody could and no doubt has taken such pictures and as such to claim 'the view is mine alone' is both decitful and wrong - however if that person's granny foe example was in the forefront of the picture then it would be personal (it's a picture of my granny at .........) and thus copyright should of course be claimed but a picture that anybody could take........come on


Jut a view - not necessarily right but strikes me as sensible! As a matter of intrest if Max had just said 'here's a couple of pictures of Barra' would TJO be able to claime them as his? he may have taken something similar at the same time but could he prove they were actually his? would he want to? be a bit expensive! No I believe the only mistake Max made was to acknowledge where he got the pictures from........sends a message to us all (not a nice one true but still a message!)

the Walrus - Mike

[tjo85]

To all,

Bergalia has not only posted in this forum, but emailed me as well, to extend his apologies for the misuse of my photos. As I told him in an email, since this is a small site and he certainly isn't posting them for a profit, I am not too concerned. Since he made the effort to find my email via this site and send me a message, I have given him my permission for using the pictures on this site.

I honestly did not mean to stir up this much discussion about the joys of copyright laws, but since some questions have been raised, I will try and answer them. As was pointed out earlier the pictures that appeared on the site can be traced back to their original publication in Travelgirl magazine (the complete story can be found at http://travelgirlinc.com/onlinealerts/barra.html).

I was hired as a freelancer to take the pictures which accompanied H.M. Cauley's article. It is because I am an independent contractor (i.e. not on the staff of Travelgirl mag), that the pictures and their copyrights belong to me. As "Guillermo" pointed out, one would think that Travelgirl owned the rights to the pictures and not myself. However, as is the case with most freelance copyright agreements, Travelgirl only retains the right to the pictures for 72 hours after publication. After that mark, I become the owner once more and any reprint permission must be cleared through me, not Travelgirl.

All this because of the world lawyers have set up around us. Again, this is a small site and Bergalia is only using the pictures to show off his native Island (which really is quite amazing). I truly did not mean to stir all this up and, in retrospect, should have just emailed Bergalia and not posted in this forum. But as I said, Bergalia has gone out of his way to apologize and I have given him my permission to post the pictures on this site.

I also appreciate the idea of putting digital watermarks on my pictures in the future as some have suggested. This isn't a bad idea at all and I'll most likely do it in the future when I personally publish my own photos.

[Bergalia]

As a footnote to Tom's letter above I would like to add my appreciation at the gracious way he accepted my apology, and I would like to wish him well in his future photographic ventures. If his portfolio on Barra is a fair sample of his work - then I believe his success is assured.

[Guillermo]

Nice to see a couple of sensible guys treating each other with repect.
Now back to this thread's purpose:

(Taken from: http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeohzt4/S...oms/trads.html)

US Navy:
When a senior officer or official formally visits a ship of the Navy, he or she is normally "piped over the side" by a boatswain's mate and a number of sideboys corresponding to the visitor's rank as shown on the table of honors. This process is a ritual throwback to the days when coming aboard a ship meant either climbing up a rope ladder or being hoisted aboard in a boatswain's chair. Sideboys were mustered to assist if necessary in pulling the visitor bodily over the side. The tale goes that the more senior the officer, the greater the weight to be lifted, and accordingly the more sideboys mustered.

[safewalrus]

Most Navies are like that - mimic a sailing navy from more famous times (model their uniforms on them too) and of course the more senior an officer got the older he got to reach that status, and thus the more portly he got, and the more arthritic he got, and of course the more stuff he might be carrying (uniforms, badges, swords papers etc) Logical really! (actually I think you'll find the 'sideboys' would be more inclined to be hauling on the falls of the 'chair' - which of course would be more substantial as befits a senior officer)

[keith66]

An old tradition that was used on the South coast by the beach boats was to affix a stone with a natural hole in it inside the bow of the boat, this appears to be similar to the mediteranean custom of painting eyes on the bows or carrying an amulet to ward of the evil eye,

[Bergalia]

Stones, Keith...even Rolling Ones, primitive stuff. On the West Coast we used to nail a Christian to the bows for similar effect. Trouble is we had to replace them once a week...They got soggy and the crabs ate them...

[keith66]

Sounds similar to the tale that told of virgins being used as a sacrifice under the keel of a new longship, terrible waste of a virgin though.

[safewalrus]

So that's why us can't find a virgin in Cornwall! they've heard (some will use any excuse)

[keith66]

A friend of mine was in the merchant navy, he told me there were plenty of virgins in mombassa " I have sister, she very cheap, she virgin.......Almost



Allegedly!!!

[safewalrus]

But who wants a retread and used virgin?

[charmc]

Originally Posted by Guillermo

On top of this, I understand a copyright ownership requires properly registering of it at a Copyright Office. In my not qualified opinion, just marking the © symbol is not enough to grant copyright ownership on a work. A copyright is generally subject to a statutorily-determined term. Courts in the United States and the United Kingdom have rejected the doctrine of a common law copyright.
Unless proof in contrary, I still believe T. Opdyke is just plain wrong claiming Bergie for the use of his photos within these forums, even if Bergie lives in Australia. As read in Wikipedia: "Under current Australian law it is still a breach of copyright to copy, reproduce or adapt copyright material for personal or private use without permission from the copyright owner", but I understand this refers only to Australian registered copyrighted material (?).
More opinions?
Lots of additional info at: http://www2.lib.udel.edu/subj/copyright/internet/

First, I want to add my compliments to Tom and Max for the intelligent and mutually respectful way they communicated on the issue of using photos.

As co-author of a textbook on desalination and a board member of the organization which developed the course for which it was commissioned I have had recent experience with US copyright laws. US law states that the author (meaning the one who makes the original work, whether writer, painter, photographer, graphic designer, sculptor, architect, etc ... or the organization which employs the author or commissions the work as owner) of any original work automatically owns the copyright to that work merely by having produced it. The tricky part is that, in order to have standing in the US legal system to defend the copyright against infringement, it must be registered with the US copyright office. This is simple, accomplished by mailing a legible copy of the work, a completed registration form, and payment of a fee, currently $45.00 per registration. A recent amendment allows large quantities of photographs to be registered for a single $45.00 fee.

So copyright is free and automatic (in the US, at least) with creation of a work, but in order to be able to spend large sums of money on an infringement lawsuit protecting the copyright, it is necessary to register the copyright.

With the advent of the Internet "Fair Use" laws become really fuzzy. As I understand it, anyone can quote "brief" excerpts from a copyrighted work in another work without seeking specific permission, so long as: there is proper attribution, the purpose is not commercial, and the quoted excerpt does not constitute a major portion of the second work. An author can, however, limit the use of quotes by published notice in the original work, which, under certain circumstances, can supercede fair use.

Is the copying of a photograph to a discussion forum always fair use? I think so, but, like most of us here, I'm a boater, seaman, sailor, sometimes engineer, but never a lawyer.

[charmc]

One of my favorite business cards was for a chap who described his profession as "Entrepreneur". It listed a variety of services he would perform, among which was "Virginity Restored".

Probably a lot of demand for that service back in the days of human sacrifice.

[safewalrus]

Be run off his feet in Cornwall, even today!!!