Texas Size KILL ZONE

Good........When will the Good testing for Ocean Friendly activity be done in America in the future? U can sell box office sucess to American that loved their ocean........................Maybe that show American way of living ............

The SONAR are surposed to be use all over the world to check for Russian sub........

So u say that thing will not reached other foreign sovereignty waters right?

Good.........I am happy for usefull information that rectified the damn world...

Cheer.....

 

Yes, I heard that the Death Star will be completed soon, then we can zap the entire world anytime we want.

 

Mmmmm......... Continue serial..... of WW hope its a womman who fire the gun

 

Scores of Fish Beach Themselves in N.C.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060226/ap_on_sc/fish_jubilee

Camp Lejeune = Marine Corps' New River air base?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Corps_Base_Camp_Lejeune

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Corps_Air_Station_New_River

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/usmc/ii-mef.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_Bay_jubilee

Man or nature - you decide.

 

I am not sure of your point when you say man or nature, but in many regions of the country, yes including areas that do not include the military, [the position that appears to be taken by your fact posting from the area,] lobsters do a "march" in lock step.

We have had a huge weather front that has passed by in the last two days.


In California , as just one place:

In Florida, during the winter season, in big weather fronts, lobsters will come ahore and walk along the beach fronts, and can be had for the picking.

Off the mid atlantic region, in weather changes, deep water fish such as the red snappers will actually come to the surface of the water, from the rocks and the ledges, and are netted by draggers in their semi conscienous state of being.

Shore birds along the barrier islands of the Virginia shore, will actually move inland to the farms to seek refuge till the cold weather moves and their food sources are again avaliable to them along the marshes.

Have you ever been marsh hen hunting? Wonder why these birds seek the refuge of the grass in the big northeasters in the fall and winter season. Just because these makes the headlines in the media prints does not make it a rarity of nature and its natural process of life.

 

Only one word for it "Yankees"

One way or another it's all down to them being (or got at by) the damn 'Yankees'

 

Watch The Movie The "CORE" u see sonar that drill hole, whale singin and maybe........ maybe.......... the weapon "DESTINY".......

 

was that destiny or dysentary welly (the effect is the same the method diferent!)

 

No...No..... serious on scout honor ..... I was havin nitemare for a week after reading article in this junk thread and watching "CORE" not the ladies singer "The Core". I mean, the US may not be that stupid ...... they wanna live too:!: and killing fishy is not only hurting the world but also themselve:!: ..... no more sushi in American lol...........,...........

U can imagine if this thing is just a lab thing and they expose to check what the world think before builting a stronger version? Can u imagine givin yur kid play PS 5 in your livin room couch?

For me u can zap here zap anywere u want even zap *** on your free time with the Russy or Chinese or even Europe but dont think it will effect Indonesia.............

God knows the Whale may had a sonar massages and send ****** signal to the wrong scientist.

I dont like fish when i am drunk anyway......... that conclude my feeling on American sonar nonsense................

 

Fight Back with the new sonar recyclable system

 

Sonar Called Likely Stranding Cause

Sonar Called Likely Stranding Cause

By Marc Kaufman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, April 28, 2006;



Federal marine specialists have concluded that Navy sonar was the most likely cause of the unusual stranding of melon-headed whales in a Hawaiian bay in 2004.

The appearance of as many as 200 of the normally deep-diving whales in Hanalei Bay in Kauai occurred while a major American-Japanese sonar training exercise was taking place at the nearby Pacific Missile Range Facility.

The report is the latest in a series of scientific reviews linking traditional mid-frequency naval sonar to whale strandings. Sonar has been used for decades, but it was only recently that the apparent connection to strandings was established.

While the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration scientists said they could not definitely state that sonar caused the strandings, they said extensive study led them to the conclusion that there was no other likely cause.

"Our analyses indicate there was no significant weather, natural oceanographic event or known biological factors that would explain the animals' movement into the bay nor the group's continued presence in the bay," said Teri Rowles, NOAA Fisheries Service's lead marine mammal veterinarian and lead author of the report.

NOAA concluded that sonar was "a plausible, if not likely, contributing factor" to the stranding.

The Navy has said it was virtually impossible for its sonar to have led to the Hanalei Bay stranding, and officials maintained that position yesterday. "I think that if you look at the report, there are just so many unknown factors at work that to say sonar was a plausible if not likely cause is erroneous," said Lt. Commander Christy Hagen of the U.S. Pacific Fleet in Hawaii.

The Navy is planning another major sonar testing maneuver in the same area in July and -- for the first time -- NOAA has formally asked the Navy to use expanded measures to protect whales from the possible effects of its sonar.

The active sonar used by navies sends out loud pings of sound that seem to frighten and disorient whales, especially deep-diving species such as the beaked and melon-headed whales. The effect was documented off Greece in 1996 and established later during naval exercises in the Bahamas, off the Canary Islands and off Spain.

The findings have complicated the Navy's efforts to set up a 500-square-nautical-mile sonar training facility off the coast of North Carolina. Naval officials say the sonar training is essential, especially now that possibly hostile foreign navies have developed diesel submarines that are not detected by the kind of passive sonar used to follow large nuclear submarines.

Rowles said that the melon-headed stranding in Hawaii was highly unusual, and only the second recorded in the United States in modern times. The other occurred off Florida earlier this year, and Rowles said NOAA is trying to determine if any naval activity occurred in the area.

In the 2000 Bahamas stranding, a local marine biologist collected some of the whales that died onshore and froze them for later study -- which helped NOAA conclude that sonar was the likely cause. In Hanalei Bay, the whales were ultimately led back to sea and one young animal died, apparently of starvation. So there was no physical evidence of injury to examine.

Yesterday's NOAA conclusion was based instead on the lack of other possible causes, the unusual nature of the whale movement, and an analysis that concluded the extensive sonar use occurred close enough to Hanalei Bay for the whales to swim there by early July 3.

A number of environmental groups have become increasingly concerned about the effects of sonar, and the Natural Resources Defense Council has sued the Navy a number of times on the issue. Michael Jasny, a senior consultant with NRDC, said the NOAA report was worrisome.

"This was by far the largest stranding of melon-headed whales ever recorded in Hawaii," he said. "Once again, the Navy's denial has been contradicted by the official government investigation. It's time for the Navy to stop this needless infliction of harm."

 

Beaked Whale Stranding, Photo

Just happened upon this site.

Low Frequency Active Sonar (LFAS)
What Is It?
http://www.oceanmammalinst.org/lfaswhat.html

Have a look at this photo:
Beaked whale from the Canary Island
stranding of September, 2002.
This stranding took place during naval exercises involving the same mid-frequency sonar used during the Bahamas stranding (March, 2000).

 

I appreciate your concern for the whales, but your logic sounds like a conspiracy theorist. For example, you stated in your very first post on this subject that "But, because low frequency underwater sound can travel hundreds of miles with little loss of power, it will actually create a "kill zone" several hundred miles in diameter." This is complete and utter bullsh!t.

For one thing, the blue whale produces sound up to 188 decibels; and the volume of its sound doesn't seem to hurt anything. And I assume you will respond with "it's a natural sound!", which is crap. Sound energy is sound energy, and if sound energy produced by a blue whale doesn't cause Texas-sized kill zones, then the sound energy produced by artificial sources isn't going to, either.

Secondly, sound wave energy, just like any other wave energy, dissipates at a rate equivalent to the cube of the radius. So if the sonar is 240 decibels at a given distance, doubling the distance decreases the sound power by a factor of 8.

Your second claim, that "The second lethal effect of the shock wave involves the activation of supersaturated gas in marine animals' blood and in their cells to form small bubbles which, like the "bends" can block the flow of blood to the brain (causing stroke) and can rupture the cell walls. This effect will be greatest in deep-diving animals (such as bluefin tuna, swordfish, bigeye tuna and deep-diving whales) that will have the highest levels of supersaturated gasses in their blood and cells. "

Again, this is utter bullsh!t from a scientific point of view. Scientists have been bringing deap sea animals up from miles below the surface for years, and no one has ever reported these animals getting the bends. As far as the marine mammals go, they dash from miles deep in the case of sperm whales to the surface, and do not get the bends. These same animals produce extremely loud sounds while hunting giant squid, and do not give each other the bends from their sonars. For that matter, a pod of blue whales making noise at 188 dB do not give each other the bends, either; so your theories about the sonar sounds somehow causing the bends sounds like so much conspiracy theory (read: ********) to me.

The last article you posted, "Federal marine specialists have concluded that Navy sonar was the most likely cause of the unusual stranding of melon-headed whales in a Hawaiian bay in 2004.", is a classic case of confusing correlation with causality. Concluding that sonar was the cause of a mass beaching simply because they couldn't think of anything else, and then accusing the Navy in the paper, is nothing more than yellow journalism.

I would take this and similar claims a lot more seriously if you actually bothered to produce real scientific studies instead of disguising political attacks as pseudoscientific jargon.

 

whales constantly beech themselfs for one reason or another,,,they have done it for millinia,,,just as shrews jump off cliffs,,,,,,,mans technology will never out do nature,longliner

 

Are you familar with the method that we used to commuicate with our subs back in the 60's and 70's?? Then tell me about low frequency sound attenuation

According to new scientific information now available, at its expected power level of 240 decibels (dB), LFA sonar could produce a "kill zone" for not only marine mammals and endangered species but also fishery resources in an area hundreds of kilometers (km) in diameter. This high intensity sonar is described as the loudest sound made by man (presumably not including bombs) and is equivalent in intensity to the noise created by a Saturn rocket at liftoff. Actually, the Navy has indicated it has the capability to produce an even higher decibel level sonar, but that particular level is "classified." So, we know it will be actually even worse for marine life than 240 dB.

It is important to realize that the decibel scale is not linear, but logarithmic. This means that 160 dB is 10 times the intensity of 150 dB, 170 dB is 100 times the intensity of 150 dB and so on. Therefore, the full deployment intensity of LFA sonar is 1,000,000,000 (one billion) times the intensity of 150 dB - the intensity at which lethal effects are documented.

LFA sonar does not attenuate as rapidly as does mid-range sonar of the same intensity. Since LFA sonar maintains much more of its initial intensity over much greater distances, it affects a much broader area than does the mid-range (or "tactical") sonar employed by the Navy in the Bahamas. This is precisely why LFA sonar is being developed. To illustrate, LFA sonar used during previous NATO exercises in the Mediterranean off Greece resulted in marine mammal strandings and mortality at exposure distances of 100 km and estimated exposure intensity levels of 150 to 160 dB, according to the calculation made from the SACLANTCEN Bioacoustics Panel report on this stranding. The direct "kill zone" of LFA sonar can thus be 200 km in diameter vs. the 40 km "kill-zone" of mid-range sonar.

Sound behaves differently in water compared to air. It travels five times faster in water than in air. In water, it is also transmitted much farther with much less attenuation than in air. (And LFA sonar maintains its intensity much farther than does mid-range sonar.) LFA sonar will maintain relatively high intensity levels hundreds of miles from the source. For example, a marine mammal scientist working off the Washington coast recorded a loud sound (measured at 140 dB). After investigating, he learned it was produced by Navy LFA sonar exercises conducted off Southern California - a distance of over 900 miles!

Sound penetrates an animal's body when immersed in water. In air, 99.97% of the acoustic energy is reflected from a body. In water, however, there is no reflection or reduction of energy because the body is mostly water. Essentially all of acoustic energy goes into a body immersed in water. This effect, which can cause tissue rupture and hemorrhage, has not been adequately addressed in the Navy's FEIS. The implications (of the effect of sound penetration) for marine life are very serious.

The first lethal mechanism, discussed by three Navy scientists (Houser, Howard and Ridgway) in The Journal of Theoretical Biology (November 2001), involves moderate level sound waves (as low as 150 dB, which was the lowest level they modeled) activating the growth of microscopic bubbles in the supersaturated blood and tissue of cetaceans. These bubbles then grow and can cause embolisms, hemorrhaging and localized pressure on the nervous system. Significant oxygen deprivation by blood vessel blockage can kill brain cells and produce stroke. For supersaturated gasses dissolved in cells rather than the blood, activation of bubble formation can rupture the cell walls.

The Navy has argued that the Bahamas stranding is not relevant to concerns about LFA sonar because it was using mid-frequency sonar in the Bahamas, not LFA sonar. However, bubble growth is essentially independent of the frequency of the sound wave and LFA sonar would, in fact, affect more animals since low frequency sound travels farther.

Gas supersaturation will be greatest in those species that dive to great depths in search of prey. Obvious examples include the imperiled bluefin tuna, swordfish, blue marlin, bigeye tuna and deep-diving whales. Using the new pop-off satellite tagging technology, bluefin tuna have been shown to reach depths below 2,400 feet (the limit of the pressure-sensing device first employed) and to stay beyond such depths for more than an hour (on a daily basis) (Block, et al., 2001, Science 293:1310-14). Deep-diving species will accumulate the highest concentrations of gasses dissolved in their blood and tissues and thus will be especially vulnerable to supersaturated gas bubble activation by high intensity sonar. The Navy's FEIS does not address the potential for injury from sound-activated bubble growth in fishery resources or marine mammals.

The second mechanism for lethal injury involves hemorrhaging caused by acoustic resonance of the LFA sonar signal in cranial and other airspaces such as lungs and swim bladders. Specifically, the rapid change in pressure (from very high to very low several times per second for the duration of the one-minute LFA sonar blast) can rupture the delicate membranes enclosing the airspace.

In their chapter "Underwater Noise Pollution and its Significance for Whales and Dolphins" (in Simmonds and Hutchinson, 1996, The Conservation of Whales and Dolphins. John Wiley & Sons.), Jonathan Gordon and Anna Moscrop state that shock waves caused by intense underwater sound sources can cause direct tissue damage. Animals with air filled lungs and swim bladders are especially vulnerable because of the large difference in impedance between air in the lungs or swim bladders and their body tissues or seawater. Submerged animals exposed to explosions at short range showed hemorrhage in the lungs and ulceration of the gastro-intestinal tract.

Kenneth Balcomb, director of the Friday Harbor Orca Research Laboratory and the marine mammal scientist who discovered the Bahamas stranding, suggested in a letter to Joseph Johnson, the LFA sonar OEIS/EIS program manager (February, 2001) that those beaked whales stranded from non-auditory physiological impacts caused by acoustic resonance of the sonar signal in their cranial airspaces (at exposure intensity levels estimated to be 150 to 160 dB). This resulted in the hemorrhages observed during necropsies. (The frequencies of LFA and mid-range sonars match the cranial airspace resonance frequencies of beaked whales at normal foraging depths.) He has stated: "I have had the unique opportunity to witness and study a mass stranding of whales and a dolphin caused by a U.S. Naval Sonar Exercise in the Bahamas (Pirie, ltr. June 15, 2000). That incident unequivocally demonstrated the lethality of high-powered sonars, and it provided the opportunity to understand how sonar has been inadvertently killing whales in vast expanses of ocean around the world.

The killing is largely due to resonance phenomena in the whales' cranial airspaces that are tearing apart delicate tissues around the brains and ears. This is an entirely separate issue from auditory thresholds and traumas that the Navy has fixated upon. In my earlier comments, I questioned whether there might be a problem with injurious resonance phenomena created by the sonar system described in your OEIS/EIS; but, now I have seen the problem and can attest to the fact that there is massive injury to whales caused by sonar. This is not an exaggerated statement, and I am reasonably sure that the Navy knows that.

At least seven beaked whales died in the Bahamas stranding that I witnessed; and, I had opportunity to examine four of the carcasses by necropsy. All of these whales that were examined evidenced similar lesions, i.e. hemorrhage in the acoustic regions of the cranium and mandible and in tissues adjacent to airspaces around the earbones (NMFS ltr. June 14, 2000). One fresh specimen that was examined by ultra high resolution computerized tomography (UHR-CT) evidenced a subarachnoid hemorrhage (brain hemorrhage) with a direct path to the ear hemorrhage. This same specimen evidenced lung hemorrhage and laryngeal hemorrhage upon dissection. These hemorrhages are of the type of damage reported in laboratory animals exposed to LFA at lung resonance frequency, and they strongly corroborate the theoretical explanation of such injuries in these whales."

This evidence was recently presented, analyzed and affirmed by a number of experts in the fields of marine mammalogy and bioacoustics. Although resonance effects are acknowledged by the Navy as a potential problem for humans, it is not discussed in the FEIS with regard to any marine species.

Therefore, through these two potentially lethal mechanisms, not only marine mammals but also most fish species and many other forms of marine life are vulnerable to the direct lethal effects of sonar at intensity levels of 150 to 160 dB - well below (100 to 1,000 times less than) that which the Navy has claimed is safe (i.e., 180 dB). Because LFA sonar travels very long distances with little attenuation, the area so affected will be quite large - more than 200 km in diameter. In fact, the Navy states in its FEIS that LFA sonar can still be 160 dB several hundred miles from the source. Therefore, the potential direct "kill-zone" for LFA sonar is an area larger than the state of Texas.

Dr. William T. Hogarth
Assistant Administrator for Fisheries
National Marine Fisheries Service
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
Department of Commerce
1315 East-West Highway
Silver Spring, Maryland 20910

Re: Supplemental comments on impacts of Low Frequency Active Sonar on the status of the Atlantic white marlin, submitted pursuant to the Endangered Species Act, and comments on Marine Mammal Protection Act and National Environmental Policy Act reviews