Some one has to start it, Americas default.

[Mr Efficiency]

So what kind of stock market carnage are you predicting Monday, Frosty ? Surely this rating stuff is pretty well fa ctored in already ?

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by masalai

In a two political party system, (and even those such as Australia where there are some independent and minority parties), the two majors are a choice between Tweedledum or Tweedledumber, as "left and Right" political positions are readily interchangeable - I fail to see the reason for the strengths in opinion/support as the "public perception" of the differences offered or presented... Bu*l*h*t baffles brains seems to me the only explanation...

Most politicians are 'run' by vested interests, or polls, - which are biased at best, to meet preconceived responses from the polled respondents, by the pollsters...

JUST IN... This, if it is correct could really explode in the GEC... http://www.gata.org/node/10223 "'As many as 20 owners for each bullion bank gold bar, Rickards tells King World News"' and Rickards is a respected and knowledgable global 'player'...

In a viable two-party system, each party represents a broad spectrum of the voters. And that used to be the case in this country. When Moby Dick was a minnow and I first registered to vote, there was an overlap between the Democrats and the Republicans.

Both parties had a moderate center, with 'left' and 'right' wings. Overall, the center of the Republican Party was to the right of the Democratic Party's center -- but a liberal Republican was more liberal than a conservative Democrat. That means that a candidate or a policy that survived being vetted by either party generally had a political appeal broad-based enough to be palatable to the country as a whole. Any candidate who won his position by appealing only to one wing of his own party risked going down spectacularly in flames (think Barry Goldwater and Eugene McCarthy).

But beginning with the rise of Newt Gingrich and Rush Limbaugh as spokesmen for Republicans and conservatives, Republicans have been increasingly indoctrinated with the idea that anyone who doesn't agree with them politically is not only wrong, but evil. The Party's political base has been on a witch hunt for years now, purging the membership of voters or candidates who don't meet various litmus tests.

Today, the most liberal Republicans in the House and the Senate are still far to the right of their Democratic brethren. Rockefeller Republicans are extinct, and there are no nationally-known Republican politicians anywhere left of center. In fact, only a tiny handful of them can even be viewed as centrist.

The Democratic Party, on the other hand, still has a broad center and a right wing of sorts (think Blue Dog Democrats), although it has gone through a fair amount of the same sort of polarization. That means that in the long run, it's more likely to come up with policies and politics that are palatable to the general public. In response, the Republican Party will have to become more inclusive, or risk becoming irrelevant.

But unfortunately, it seems that right now the Tea Party tail is wagging the Republican dog instead. Republican leaders are misinterpreting negative feelings about Obama and the economy as positive support for them instead, and in my opinion are thereby stumbling their way into political disaster.

Look at the field of Republican candidates for President this time around. How many normal, non-politicized voters are actually going to believe a Michelle Bachmann, Sarah Palin or Herbert Cain could run the country? The only one in the pack so far who's even remotely electable is Mitt Romney, and he'll have his political throat cut by his own party members if he wins the nomination. An alarming number of conservative Republicans will either sit out the election, or vote for a third-party candidate who has no chance of winning.

I predict an Obama win in the next election -- not because he's popular, but because a polarized, irrational Republican base will be unable to field a viable candidate against him. Despite desperate attempts to paint him as some sort of left-wing communist loon, Obama will scare the average voter less than anyone the Teabaggers want....

re: the oversold gold, I'm not surprised. I've never understood the rationalse behind 'owning' gold that isn't actually in one's physical possession, as a hedge against a catastrophic collapse of our economic system. Hello? if the banks all go belly-up, who's going to deliver that gold to your door so you can use it?

[Frosty]

If anything has come out of all this mess its that the man in the street now knows that Obama has no more clout than the Whitehouse cook asking what everyone wants for supper. This means even more complacency when it come to 'renew' him because it does'nt matter who is the figure head,--maybe not even bother with one next time eh?

Just use the monkeys in the pit throwing food at each other.

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by Frosty

Rome had a few good ones and the Sheik of Dubai does'nt do too badly. Don't get me wrong but if comparable with the terrible mess on Capital hill anything must be looked at.

Normally I coul'dt give a flying fart about a country going down because of its own stupidity and complacency but your taking me down with you, and I think that thought eckoes all round the world.

If it was'nt for the financial implications I would like to sit back with a beer and watch.

And if you want to bring in the war well thanks --how many times do I have to say thanks and thanks again.

And yes im a bit peeved today, I stand to loose a lot of money tomorrow gentlemen.

Ive no pension no health insurance just me and my money. God bless America.

If you could have just made this very very simple decision a few months back you could have avoided all this, I know smarter 7 year olds.

Oh, stop it.

You have a long track record of blaming America for anything that goes wrong anywhere in the world, while giving it no credit whatsoever for anything that goes right.

In case you hadn't noticed, we aren't exactly the only country in the world with financial woes right now because of the stupid short-sightedness of political leaders. Look at your own country... are you really trying to set it up as some sort of good example?

The UK national debt is the total amount of money the British government owes to the private sector and other purchasers of UK gilts.

•UK public sector net debt was £920.9 billion (equivalent to 60.6 per cent of GDP of National GDP) – (note this excludes financial sector intervention.)

•Source: Office National Statistics [1] (page updated July 18th, 2011)

If all financial sector intervention is included (e.g. Royal Bank of Scotland, Lloyds) , the Net debt was £2252.9 billion or 148.9% per cent. This is known as the unadjusted measure of public sector net debt.

The Public sector net borrowing PSNB (annual government borrowing) for 2010/11 was £143.2 billion or 11.7% of GDP.

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/uk...national-debt/

[masalai]

Well I am led to believe that in the last election in USA that the politicians got in with less than 25% even bothering to vote... If so, I guess the USA got what it deserves APATHY and m?????s...

I am also bothered by the system in USA of Lobbyists... With their supposedly HUGE 'brown-paper-bag' expense accounts and the perception that corruption and bribery is rife, and an intrinsic part of "normal" life. ???

On another matter, in Australia....
Australia has a nationwide Census on 9th of August 2011... The analysis could be quite interesting, as the plea for accurate and honest data is logical and reasonable as a future planning tool...
Australia is a small insignificant country with lots of ARID, (Most of the useful topsoil has been washed away over the eons of this, one of the oldest landmasses...) and WATERLESS, (Drowned in a torrent every 7th or so year, and DROUGHT for the other 6 years...), land and a population that is about maximum, (21million), to continue "self-sustain-ably" into the future.... The sleeping, ignorant, ill-advised, wankers who hold political office, and leadership rolls in industry, - would happily sell this country down the drain to whom-so-ever was stupid enough to invest here-in...

[Frosty]

Troy although direct communication with you has not worked in the past im'e willing to say to you, tell me what you think America needs applauding for and I will indeed applaud.

Fighting abortion perhaps or refusing permission for stem cell research pollution, handling the depletion of fossil fuels all on your own.

GPS yes,-- now thats very handy thank you very much, anything else?

I know you give a lot to Isreal and Pakistan, thats very kind of you but I have no idea why.

Err --thats about it is'nt it.

UK? a **** hole and has been for 50 years destroyed by rampant immigration and social hand outs, I will not go there.

We have a lot in common but Im not waving a big foam "we are number one finger".

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by masalai

Well I am led to believe that in the last election in USA that the politicians got in with less than 25% even bothering to vote... If so, I guess the USA got what it deserves APATHY and m?????s...

You've been seriously misled, then. The voter turnout for the last election was 38% of the total adult population -- roughly two thirds of eligible, registered voters.

That's fine with me. I really see no point in pushing apathetic and uninformed folks into casting ballots; let them stay home and not confuse things even more.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781453.html

http://www.census.gov/newsroom/relea.../cb09-110.html

[Dave Gudeman]

Originally Posted by troy2000

Well, I can certainly understand your insistence that people living under the most democratic political system in the world have no moral obligation whatsoever to turn around and give anything in return.

I don't agree, mind you... I just understand.

Putting words in my mouth, again, Troy. Do you seriously not see a difference between believing that people have an obligation and believing that the government should enforce those obligations at gunpoint?

Don't you see the inherent danger in this position? Look, there are two possibilities, either you can trust people to do the right thing or you can't. If you can trust people to do the right thing then there is no need for the government to enforce it. If you can't trust people to do the right thing then you can't trust the government to force people to do the right thing because the government is made up of people who are just as selfish and self-serving as anyone else. All you are doing is giving great power to a particular subset of people (the government) to force everyone else to do the right thing, but also giving them the power to loot and pillage and abuse their power. Which is exactly what they've been doing for the last 80 years since government first started taking on the job of forcing people to do the right thing.

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by Frosty

Troy although direct communication with you has not worked in the past im'e willing to say to you, tell me what you think America needs applauding for and I will indeed applaud.

Fighting abortion perhaps or refusing permission for stem cell research pollution, handling the depletion of fossil fuels all on your own.

GPS yes,-- now thats very handy thank you very much, anything else?

I know you give a lot to Isreal and Pakistan, thats very kind of you but I have no idea why.

Err --thats about it is'nt it.

UK? a **** hole and has been for 50 years destroyed by rampant immigration and social hand outs, I will not go there.

We have a lot in common but Im not waving a big foam "we are number one finger".

How about the fact that without the US, you probably wouldn't be sitting on an internet today -- where you can bitch to the whole world about the US.

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by Dave Gudeman

Putting words in my mouth, again, Troy. Do you seriously not see a difference between believing that people have an obligation and believing that the government should enforce those obligations at gunpoint?

Don't you see the inherent danger in this position? Look, there are two possibilities, either you can trust people to do the right thing or you can't. If you can trust people to do the right thing then there is no need for the government to enforce it. If you can't trust people to do the right thing then you can't trust the government to force people to do the right thing because the government is made up of people who are just as selfish and self-serving as anyone else. All you are doing is giving great power to a particular subset of people (the government) to force everyone else to do the right thing, but also giving them the power to loot and pillage and abuse their power. Which is exactly what they've been doing for the last 80 years since government first started taking on the job of forcing people to do the right thing.

So I take it you think paying taxes should be voluntary, and we shouldn't have drafted 10 million men to fight World War II?

[Dave Gudeman]

Originally Posted by troy2000

So I take it you think paying taxes should be voluntary, and we shouldn't have drafted 10 million men to fight World War II?

You just can't stop putting words in my mouth, can you? It's like a compulsion.

[Mr Efficiency]

No government intervention in the economy=deregulation=unfettered movements of capital=GFC=incipient GFC Mk.2

[Ad Hoc]

Originally Posted by troy2000

How about the fact that without the US, you probably wouldn't be sitting on an internet today -- .

I don't follow?

The internet was created by Sir Tim Berners-Lee in 1989-90 while at CERN.

[CatBuilder]

This post is way, way off.


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPANET

Originally Posted by Ad Hoc

I don't follow?

The internet was created by Sir Tim Berners-Lee in 1989-90 while at CERN.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by troy2000

How about the fact that without the US, you probably wouldn't be sitting on an internet today -- where you can bitch to the whole world about the US.

The thread is Americas default, We can do China and Uk next if you like.

Maybe you wont like what I have to say about Uk either.

Why do you insist on this my dads bigger than you dad thing.

Surely we are more intelligent than your government and can talk without walking out or pointless mud slinging about the war 65 years ago or internet shops,--may be not!! I have just thanked you for GPS what else do you want thanking for.

Half the problem is disbelief that you are in such deep crap.