Some one has to start it, Americas default.

Frosty:in banging heads with him about 2 years ago,he didn't even know the historic high of gold in Australia nor what the changing exchange rates would do to the price, despite harping about it in thousands of posts.
Read into that what you like.

As for the rest of you,if you're lucky (for comic relief) he will accuse you of: working for the Feds and bankers and/or trying to bribe him into silence.
Maybe if you're fortunate he will send you a nasty pm claiming he's not afraid of your (non-existent) threats of violence....like what he did to me when I pointed out his inconsistencies a couple years ago.

Like wrestling a pig in mud...

And here's hoping his boat gets running soon.

 

A banana is worth as much as a banana, a dollar is worth say 1 Euro.

The banana can detiriate so badly it would be worthless. You can gow so many banans that peaple get sick of them and dont even want them.

The dollar no matter how many you print or put zeros on the end of Bank of Americas bank account it doesnt move in its exchange as you would think.

The value of a currency is paramount in stability and thats what the Euro is supposed to be for --no more exchange rates and a stable exchange between European countries.

I dont see what gold has to do with anything. Ive lost me train of thought I dont know what Im talking about --shall I press delete or post!!!

 

Hi Frosty,
Many "chartists", have regularly suggested that gold is oversold or some such... That is not so... - No bubble, but heavily manipulated as most reserve banks and bullion traders will cheerfully (Sneerfully) acknowledge to the minions... I observe and sometimes give my view, but mostly I link to essays on either side of the debate so readers can make up their own minds...

There is a need to know that most markets are now manipulated for various "vested" reasons, and to be aware of this when considering your investments and future plans... I present my view so the reader may determine the way my personal bias tilts... I still endeavour to link to a broad spectrum of reasonably considered analysis, for either or any direction of consideration, except when the stuff is plainly contrived propaganda...

A graphic is irrelevant unless accompanied by descriptive text that lays out where the raw data was found, the authenticity / reliability of said data and the basis for the creation of the graphic and what summary was intended to be illustrated by said graphic...

 

Because they are both HEAVILY MANIPULATED... Adequately demonstrated and accepted - Start by reading daily dispatches at www.gata.org and a lot of background research is publicly available - which has sufficient validity to be taken to court as evidence... and succeeded in successful prosecution...

Yes and NO because most share & commodity markets, (especially COMEX), are also heavily manipulated - learn how to read the charts and volumes and who are the major transactions, (by high-frequency-trading via Goldman Sachs and others with servers close to the NYSE servers (almost the same building to gain the advantage by nannoseconds.) to which they admit...

So your expectation is that no one should consider investing in a mine, Manufacturing plant/business, House/home, boat, supermarket and the list of productive enterprises is almost endless... Oh well so be it...

Listening to others ideas and views can be useful and should not be ignored out of hand... In my case I am not investing any-more or any less so my interest is in the macroeconomic for general (academic?) interests sake...

 

In closing I feel this essay poses some very interesting ideas and questions http://www.moneymorning.com.au/2011...lout-saviour-in-the-european-debt-crisis.html entitled "Is China the bailout saviour in the European debt crisis?" - My feel - 'Not likely' - but then again, who knows?

 

"You also posted about the same time a shocking reoport about gold being tamperd with due to its value by being filled with lead in the middle and even the gold bar in your hand was not gold."

Archimedes got a handle on this some 1800 years ago...

If so easily manipulated, you take stock in its intrinsic price stability/"value" for what reason?

Well said.
We all are pebbles on the same beach.
Some notion of the tidal range does inform on the utility of holding ones breath or simply scampering off to higher ground...

 

interesting favorite saying, so I suppose now I can have at least some confidence in my own short term trading policy. I just wait for the movement I was hoping for and get out. Doesn't have to be much, just enough to keep my averages working.

anyway you probably recognized more than a few amateur economists in the crowd. Personally I like the various view points even if some seem a little off kilter. My own amateur view is there's an ongoing correction in the valuation of the dollar. Our shift to the corporate economy has ensured a reduction in actual income for the common man. Basically we're at war and they are winning. They hold all the cards at the moment. Which is what the protests are all about. Separating state from the corporation just like we separate church and state. Changing the campaign finance laws and more far reaching term limits.

Cheers
B

 

I'm afraid I'll have to go with bntii when it comes to precious metals. If the value of gold is so casually and easily manipulated, why would anyone in his right mind sink his money into it?

 

All the gold in the world isn't enough to pay the US national debt. According to several sources found on Google, the total amount of gold ever mined is about 160 000 tonnes, which at todays gold price is a little less than 9 *10^12 dollars, slightly more than half of the US national debt. I've had problems to find out what the US money supply is, but I assume that it should be around 50% of GDP, which also is approximately the value of all the gold in the world.

Not all gold is availble for US to buy for keeping in stock. The truth is that there isn't enough gold to support the gold standard for US dollars alone, or would it be OK to back several "paper dollars" with the value of the same gold dollar? If several paper dollars can be backed by the same gold, a gold standard would only work until enough people try to cash in their dollars for gold, and it wouldn't limit the amount of dollars that could be issued.

A true gold standard would restrict the money supply to much lower levels than currently believed healthy for the economy. The consequence would be deflation and a halt to the economy. From what I understand, a stable and low inflation of about 2% is the best, not a stable currency and definitely not deflation. The money supply needs to expand when the economy does.

(I use 10^12 to avoid calling a billion for a trillion. Most European langages, including the English I was taught, count million, milliard, billion, billiard, trillion. According to Wikipedia this system is also used in "archaic" British English. If you don't have milliards in the US and Australia, I assume you don't have milliardaires either. )

Finally, I'm an engineer and so I probably don't understand macro economy.

Erik

 

Only one reason I can think of so early in the morning... When fiat money and the banksters collapse then holding silver and a little gold bullion will ensure that you can buy the necessities of life, water, fuel (diesel) and energy production (diesel-generators, because they can run using vegetable oils)...

Once the banks collapse - by simple force of the MASSIVE debts that they are carrying and CDO's do not cover such as the Greek bailout, so the banks have to take another 50% loss on their Greek debt with NO INSURANCE because the "right-down" was agreed to voluntarily!!! Most global currencies have NO asset backing and to keep from increasing currency balance as Japan is now feeling for the second time in as many months by printing and selling massive amounts of yen... Soon the Mugabe (Zimbabwe dollar) will need to devalue again because of the falling US$ and other currencies around the world... Hyperinflation will run concurrently with Bankster collapse or shortly thereafter... The collapse of paper money (fiat currencies), will occur when the populace realises that the money they hold is fast getting less and less valuable or able to buy life's daily necessities - then gold & silver will be recognised as the safest means of exchange... If you cannot see that - do something else like design and build your own boat as this line of thinking is not for you...

You do not need to have a masters in macroeconomics - - just an open and enquiring mind... All the indicators are out there and not hard to find...
- Ask why should the Au$ be running at US$1.06 or so when for the past 10 or 20 years it has been vacillating around US$0.75?...
- Look at the EU bailout of Greece... Even simple logic will tell you that the method to solve Greece's problem was to borrow 300 billion Euro then leverage that to 2.3 trillion, get the banksters holding Greek bonds to accept a 50% haircut", - What "BULLSHINE".... One cannot triple ones debt obligations to meet payments due on an existing debt when the lenders of last resort had to borrow the money to start with - THAT IS NUCKIN FUTS...
- Why is Japan intervening heavily in the foreign exchange markets selling Yen to flood the market and reduce its inflated exchange rate to remain "competitive"?
- Why have there been so many "TO-BIG-TO-FAIL" banks in desperate need to be bailed out GLOBALLY - because they are overburdened by Toxic-Debt and sailing very close to default - LOOK at BoA it is technically dead in the water...
- - - - and these are points that were in the news this morning...
The big four banks in Australia got a big "over-the-counter" loans from the US FED RESERVE, which was kept it secret - (contrary to banking regulations in Australia), until the FED released information in its publication of some minutes of meetings and its "declared financial statement" for the quarter relating to early 2011...

 

Constant Trading is for Widows and Orphans

Not to be overly argumentative, but I wouldn't mind explaining this philosophy a bit more -

"Manufacturing plant/business, House/home, boat, supermarket "

Constant trading.

Lets take manufacturing

Have a look at all the abandoned car factories in Motown in the US, and Coventry in the UK. I can take you to three or for timber processing 'ghost' factories from where I live.

The closest example of a 'fixed investment factory' I know of was owned by Mr L, he inherited freehold, a small rubber moulding factory from his dad after WW2, making bath plugs and the like.

Once the japanese got going in competition, he had to diversify, and found he could make railway buffers and heavy rubber products that cost too much in freight to be manufactured overseas.

But then, he had to mortgage the little factory to install a big rubber mill, and associated heavy electrical services.

Years later, the railway building activity slowed down, so he had to make products for the motor industry. That required moulding machines as well as the pulverizer - so another loan.

Then the last time I worked for him, the big market was 'mass injection' components. This required multimillion dollar blow moulders from Italy, and about double the factory space. By sheer luck, he didnt have to sell the old factory, as the one next door came up for sale. So now, more loans for the factory next door and the new injections machines.

Obviously, I haven mentioned the investment in staff, qualified engineers, chemists, ISO accreditation, computer systems, admin staff ......

If that's not 'Constant Trading' - what is ?

I could get started on mines - you never own a mine - you lease it from the Government This applies to the Rock Quarries down the highway, to the giant Ok Teddi copper mines in new Guinea, the government leases you the rights. I wont talk about the geophysical analysis, the machinery installation and maintenance costs, the specialist mining and engineering staff, the lawyers and unions, the mineral transport ( just ask Twiggy in Western Australia)

is that constant trading ??

Lets take your own home - have you got rates to pay, repairs, do you watch the property prices locally and around the world ? Are you from England 12 years ago as your mortgage got higher than the loan value, or from the US where you handed the keys back to the Bank and put the world into crisis ?

Isn't that constant trading ?

Boat ? Boat ? - that's not an investment unless you are a commercial operator, and even then its a lot of work. Boats devalue faster than just about anything else I can think of. Constant repairs, mooring costs, fuel costs.

The happiest two days of a sailors life - the day he launches the boat, and the day he sells it. That's constant trading with a vengeance !


In summary - if you have any 'equity' in stuff, you have to Pedal, or 'Peddle' like crazy to maintain its value. There is no 'safe haven', no 'sure thing' - that's why 'markets' exist. That's why there is so much discussion on financial matters, house prices, metal prices, land prices.

Heck, I was reading the other day they are investing billions in a new cable from New York to London to save 6 seconds per trade !!!.

The hardest workers are the people with fortunes to protect, or poor people trying to get a slice of it.

 

mas, I hope your strategy works.

I hope that if the world economy goes into meltdown, that paper money is worthless , and all world trade grinds to a halt - that you can somehow get your gold bars to England to buy those special props that you broke on a rock, that you can somehow negotiate gold coins to Japan to buy new injectors for the engine that ruined with a bad batch of coconut oil, that you can find a replacement alternator when the local parts supplier goes borke.

I really hope you can safely organise the shipment of those silver ingots to the US to buy more resin when hull repairs or paint is required, or to France to buy some marine aluminium ( there is none made in Australia, though we have heaps of bauxite )

I really, really hope that all works for you.

For my part, I really, really hope that the huge financial wheels will keep spinning - otherwise I am going to have to learn to shoot and gut wallabies to stay alive, and I don't look forward to that.

 

Qantas needs to move overseas or close the long haul business the stupid government fell right into that trap by allowing a wildcat stike under the fair work legislation to please the voters to get voted in. Under the Liberal party it was againast the law, so now the labour party have had to jump on the unions ha ha...very clever move by qantas
They can survive based overseas with the pilots but they need to get rid of everybody else
A pilots unionised contract is over 600 pages long..time to change it dont you think??
(PS the pilots want to change it as well but are prevented by the union that they have no choice over)

 

Is it fair that Mc donalds refuses to serve breakfast after 11.00AM . A recent visit resulted in a heated exchange with the the duty manager looking like friking Cyborg with mobile dongle sticking from his ear.

I was of the opinion that he runs a resaraunt and I was hungry with money in my pocket,from that I would assume a deal could be struck but apparantly not. Iether a Sausage Mc muffin with egg or a big mac had to be removed from refrigeration and prepaired, therfore my argument was that niether should be enfoced onto the customer.

I lost the argument as I expected and turned to walk out of a totaly empty restaraunt.

Australia will finally one day realise that Uniuons are not productive. Quantas has lost 20 million per day for 3 days which is better than 20 million per week on lightening strikes ( totally unexpected un predictable industrial action) by unions.

Aurther Scargill the coal miners union leader of the 60's in Uk basically single handed closed down most coal mines in the north of england. He was responsable for the infamous 3 day week of the 60's --a very damaging time for UK, and what has that left us?

He ran away to Tasmania and as far as I know started his silly ideas there threatening a theme park with strikes, the theme park retaliated with closure of the Park. The parks management had no alternative to close the park and all went un employed.

Unions had the day in the early 20 century when children slept under looms, they are no longer needed.

 

I love the breakfast joke, at our yacht club the staff say sorry breakfast finished so we say ok can I have 2 eggs bacon and toast etc and they say ok no problem....
( the third world wonders why they earn less per day than my taxi fare to work)