Somali pirates

[Frosty]

I can hardly hear you Mannie, the fireworks over the city is all I can hear with the windows open and its only,---(leans out to look at clock) 9. 22 pm.

[hoytedow]

Happy New Year, everyone except pirates!

[Vulkyn]

Originally Posted by hoytedow

Happy New Year, everyone except pirates!

Happy New year Hoyedow and everyone ...

[Yobarnacle]

Ho hum....one lives and hopefully learns....spots don't change into stripes nor vice versa. as the housewife said to her laundry, "Out damned spot!"

[Yobarnacle]

Happy New Year Everyone. Hopefully 2012 will be better than recent years for all of us. Healthy and prosperous! I also hope those persons reading dire predictions into the Mayan long count calendar are totally ridiculously in error.

[hoytedow]

Originally Posted by Yobarnacle

Happy New Year Everyone. Hopefully 2012 will be better than recent years for all of us. Healthy and prosperous! I also hope those persons reading dire predictions into the Mayan long count calendar are totally ridiculously in error.

I thought they finally translated the last line on that calendar.

I heard it said, "Continued on page 2."

[Yobarnacle]

Right you are Hoyte. A new long count calendar starts the next day. If...a next day.

[jamesgyore]

Originally Posted by CatBuilder

Different size ships, though, my friend.

I am running a small charter boat, not a steel container ship. We cannot make a truly safe "safe room" or that would be my first order of business.

The best I can do on my style boat is funnel, then attack.

There is no reliable defensive move when boarded on a small vessel. You can only take an offensive move, or give up.

And Fanie: You cannot arm your vessel if you travel internationally. Many places will drop you in prison if you show up with one, or... in places that allow them, they take your guns off your boat while you are there. Not very useful.

Sorry to chime in again, but you have raised an interesting point.

It would be most helpful to read the thoughts of a specialist in relevant law that could define by what means of justification or by what means of explanation, or better yet by what maritime privilege could defensive weapons can be kept aboard that might supersede local laws based in fact in maritime law or precedent, tradition or right.

I have this nagging thought that a vessel is obliged to honour the laws of the state in which the vessel is registered, not the state in which it finds itself. I base this comment upon the media publicised discovery about a decade ago of a banned prescribed drug (in Australia) found aboard a Panamanian registered container ship, that Australian port authorities could do nothing about because the drug remained aboard.

I recall this matter made the news simply because the ship was Panamanian registered and crewed by Indonesians. A very messy thing to explain, and hammed up by the Australian Maritime Union, simply because those sea faring communists wanted to make trouble.

[Fanie]

And Fanie: You cannot arm your vessel if you travel internationally. Many places will drop you in prison if you show up with one, or... in places that allow them, they take your guns off your boat while you are there. Not very useful.

Some countries are friendly, others are not friendly. If you stay away from the unfriendly ones there wouldn't be a problem. I doubt the friendlies will throw you in jail because you arm yourself.

I get the impression these disarming laws are deliberately made so someone can become a victim and politicians can throw their mud. Imo it is more important to consider lives then political status, but it doesn't seem to be the case in reality.

Of course if some countries' visitors wants to stop by and they are armed you'd blow them out the water first then invite them in. There are places you stay away from and there are those you don't want to stop by.

[masalai]

Hi jamesgyore,

I have this nagging thought that a vessel is obliged to honour the laws of the state in which the vessel is registered, not the state in which it finds itself. I base this comment upon the media publicised discovery about a decade ago of a banned prescribed drug (in Australia) found aboard a Panamanian registered container ship, that Australian port authorities could do nothing about because the drug remained aboard.

- (If the sailor had a prescription and carried sufficient to meet prescribed needs and the Captain knew, then there should have been no problems. Had they not been declared, Then issues arise and was the intervention a "political stunt"?

Try entry with undeclared drugs, weapons or other prohibited goods (any firearm, many types of weapon, many drugs, quantities of alcohol and porn in PNG) it will be confiscated and you will be locked up, as the laws of the registration of an international vessel only apply when that vessel is in "international waters" and until some armed force (pirates or an official naval force) boards your boat then the power of their guns apply.

In the waters of another country the laws of that land apply within reason. (DECLARED during Customs formalities, legally prescribed drugs sufficient for personal use and approved for use by the country of registration of the ship and the country of normal residence of that crew-person - - by their passport, or legally prescribed by the ships doctor - in which case the ships surgery would hold the medicines and issue in small doses as needed)...

Enter PNG with weapons declared and they are removed until you clear to exit the country... Do not declare and it is found. - - welcome to the inside of a cell and say your prayers...

What boat? who was missing? never heard of that/them? . . . . . would apply in many other countries.

On Piracy http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journal...s/2001/16.html and in particular this summary - scroll down the page a bit.

"You ARE A COMMITTING PIRACY if
The International Maritime Bureau (IMB), which forms part of the International Chamber of Commerce (ICC) Commercial Crime Services based in London with a regional office known as the Regional Piracy Centre (RPC) located in Kuala Lumpur, defines piracy for statistical purposes (ICC Commercial Crime Services 2000) as: - - an act of boarding (or attempted boarding) with the intent to commit theft or any other crime and with the intent or capability to use force in furtherance of that act. - Thus, the IMB definition of piracy covers attempted as well as actual attacks and applies whether a ship is berthed, at anchor or at sea.””

So I feel that Piracy occurs if someone breaks in to your boat, (at the marina berth or anchored awaiting your presence for the usual weekend sail by you and your family), and steals of attempts to steal or damages your boat, THAT is also piracy. Now see what happens if you try or actually shoot that person or persons. - I also doubt you will get much satisfaction reporting said act to the Police even with photographic evidence (taken by your security cameras on board or from your home ashore)...

[Frosty]

All this --I would think that-- do you want me to tell you what you do with your arms when you visit another country although I am very tired of repeating myself over this.

[Yobarnacle]

Vessels must comply with both the laws of the country visiting, and the laws of the nations flag it flies. Causes conflicts frequently. It;s the job of the captain and agents to sort it out with the local officials.
One solution in long use is "bonded stores". Items such as medicine chest narcotics, firearms and ammo, alcohol, and tobacco, are inventoried and locked in a steel compartment. Only the master has a key. The vessel or company posts a bond to insure arrival and departure inventories match. International Maritime Law!

[Yobarnacle]

"You ARE A COMMITTING PIRACY if
The International Maritime Bureau (IMB), which forms part of the International Chamber of Commerce (ICC) Commercial Crime Services based in London with a regional office known as the Regional Piracy Centre (RPC) located in Kuala Lumpur, defines piracy for statistical purposes (ICC Commercial Crime Services 2000) as: - - an act of boarding (or attempted boarding) with the intent to commit theft or any other crime and with the intent or capability to use force in furtherance of that act. - Thus, the IMB definition of piracy covers attempted as well as actual attacks and applies whether a ship is berthed, at anchor or at sea.””

Most American vessels allow for the Master to have a small caliber hand gun. This is for his personnel protection and maintaining discipline in a lifeboat if the situation ever arises

Ancient sea law says ANY armed merchantman (meaning with canon or anti-ship weapons) is de facto (by this fact alone) a pirate vessel! The legal penalty for piracy in the US is still death by hanging.
For this reason, the armed convoy ships of WWII had a US Navy gun and gun crew on board. The gun was not under command of the captain. It was percieved as a way to circumvent the piracy law.

[masalai]

Carry a firearm into Australian waters and neglect to declare it and see what happens. - Not nice and "ignorance of the law, or that it is OK in USA" will not help...

[CatBuilder]

Originally Posted by masalai

Carry a firearm into Australian waters and neglect to declare it and see what happens. - Not nice and "ignorance of the law, or that it is OK in USA" will not help...

I just took a look at what happens. According the your government website, it is this:

Penalty: The maximum penalty for importing these goods
without import approval is a penalty not exceeding $275,000,
imprisonment for 10 years, or both.