Ship sunk in the red sea + than thousand dead.

[Vega]

Originally Posted by Tad

First I'll say I'm surprised at the silly and unfounded statements above, especially concerning such an important subject. I expected better here....Most of the ships crew are missing, yet you jump to stating they were incompetent? .

I don't know your qualifications as a sailor, but if you were the skipper of a boat where a fire was detected but not extinct, being that boat near a Port, and if you chose to go on with your voyage, crossing a sea, to another port 200km far away, you would be acting in a very silly way.

If the guests of your boat, alarmed by the fire, put on the lifejackets, and you, just for not raising the alarm, did not only order them to take them off, but also take them away and store them in an unknown place, you would be acting in even a sillier way.

If, in the sequence of that fire your boat began to list and you, understanding that she is lost, chose to abandon safely the boat, leaving aboard your guests, you would be worst than silly, you would be a coward and acting in a criminal way.

After those actions it is not very strange that the Captain is still missing...I believe that if he showed up at this moment he would not last long...

If those are not the actions of an incompetent crew (beginning with the Captain) I don't know what you would consider incompetence.

[blared]

Well I heard that the boat wasn't serviced for 10- 11 years or something..

[longliner45]

Im with vega on this one .maritime law has not changed in 250 yrs. if these rumors are true the capton should be keel halled .fluagged and hanged...also not buying that bull crap about the fire hoses sinking the boat

[Tad]

Vega, blared, and longliner,

First off I have no idea what happened out there, and until some reasonably coherent reporting is done I'm not second guessing anyone. Virtually every major news service, in an effort to get any story, has made numerous mistakes in their reporting.

She was reported to be a RO/RO ship; she was not, no bow doors.

The crew was reported as inexperienced; the captain had held his ticket for almost 30 years.

It's been reported that design flaws sank the ship; as reported by RINA below she was still in class. blared heard the boat wasn’t serviced; as reported by bymnews.com

The most recent annual survey carried out on the vessel by RINA was completed on June 30, 2005, and the most recent class renewal survey was completed on June 29, 2003. The vessel’s last dry dock survey was completed on June 13, 2004.


Fighting a fire at sea is nothing I would wish on anyone, and in (reportedly) heavy weather it would be nightmarish. Depending on where the fire is you don't necessarily just turn around, and again the sea state might make it impossible. Once the ship starts listing it may be too late to turn around.

RINA says that The Al Salam Boccaccio 98 was fully classed with RINA, which issued the following statutory certificates on behalf of Panama: Full Term International Load Line (Type B increased) (expiry date 31/3/2008); Full Term International Oil Pollution Prevention (expiry date 31/3/2008); Interim Safety Management Certificate (expiry date 26/4/2006); Interim International Ship Security Certificate (expiry date 26/4/2006). It is understood that all other statutory certificates, including the Passenger Safety Certificate, were issued by the flag state, Panama.

And rest assured that there are some spectacular examples of ships on fire being capsized and sunk by fire hoses.

All the best, Tad

[Tad]

Crew incompetence has been alleged, I'll hold them innocent until it's proven.

That mistakes may have been made is obvious, it's also been alleged that those charged with coming to the aid of ships in distress acted incompetently. Sadly, this accident would not be a first time for that.

Tad

[longliner45]

tad; I can only speak for myself . living through wars and the hard but pleasant life of a fisherman I tend to vent at the unessesary loss of any life, trust me Its not you that angers experianced seaman. Its all the other crap .corperate cornercuting. .....politics exetra.

[safewalrus]

I'm sure the crew were as competent as their training made them, however panic is endemic and if your training is of poor standard what are you to do? Much the same as these guys....... back off..... "I can't handle this!"
Everybody else is panicing (national trait of the highstrung arab in general) so PANIC!!!!! Me, women and children first! Most of these so called third world crews are held together by a strong Captain - if he falters it all goes to ****; looks like that's what happened here!

Oh yes and RoRos don't need bow doors!

[Vega]

Originally Posted by Tad

...
Fighting a fire at sea is nothing I would wish on anyone, and in (reportedly) heavy weather it would be nightmarish. Depending on where the fire is you don't necessarily just turn around, and again the sea state might make it impossible. Once the ship starts listing it may be too late to turn around.

...And rest assured that there are some spectacular examples of ships on fire being capsized and sunk by fire hoses.

I believe you are right about the ultimate cause of the sinking. Large quantities of water inside the boat (used for fighting the fire) made the boat list and probably that led to the dislocation of the transported vehicles to one of the sides. Of course, the two more decks added to the boat certainly have contributed for the insufficient stability.

But this does not diminish the crew incompetence (captain first), neither the criminal irresponsibility of the Company.

It turns out that no mayday has been issued, that the company had knowledge that the boat was in trouble and didn't report to the authorities (not even when they have lost contact with the boat that had a satellite phone). And most of all, the Captain didn't turn back (they where 20 miles off the coast when the fire began) not even when the fire didn't go off in a reasonable period of time. Tad, one thing is a Cargo ship with a fire, another is a passenger ferry with 1500 persons aboard. No chances should be taken here. Or the fire is off in minutes, or you just turn around to safety, way before the quantity of water makes the boat list, even if it proves unnecessary afterwards.

Most of all, it seems to me that the Company Staff, that had knowledge of the boat situation, and failed to communicate to the authorities, should be criminally prosecuted. They are responsible for a 6 hour delay in the rescue of the passengers, and that certainly led to the death of hundreds of people.


“Egypt's presidential spokesman said Tuesday the owners of the Red Sea ferry that sank last week, drowning about 1,000 people, did not inform the government of the disaster for nearly six hours.”

http://www.boston.com/news/world/mid..._news_delayed/

“Among questions still to be answered are why the crew sent no distress signal to shore stations and failed to evacuate the ship in good time. Hussein el-Harmil, head of Egypt's maritime safety board, said yesterday there had been ample time to organise an evacuation.”

http://www.guardian.co.uk/egypt/stor...703073,00.html


“Within hours of leaving shore, as smoke began to fill the upper decks of the ferry and the crew tried desperately to calm passengers, it became clear to many on board that something had gone terribly wrong, survivors said on Saturday.
Passengers begged the captain and his crew to turn the ship around, survivors said, but the ferry continued into the choppy waters of the Red Sea on its way from Saudi Arabia to Safaga, Egypt. By 2 a.m. Friday, the ship had sunk..... Other survivors described a tense standoff between the captain and many on the ship, as passengers and even some crew members began demanding the ship be turned around and return to Saudi Arabia as smoke poured out of the lower deck.
"By midnight there was serious fire on the bottom and smoke rising up to the fourth floor, and they kept saying we have control over the situation.," said Nabil Taghyan, 27, who survived by wearing a life jacket and boarding an inflatable raft.
Despite pleas to turn back, the captain insisted it would be better to steam ahead to Safaga, Mr. Taghyan said.
Mr. Taghyan said he ultimately saw the captain and crew flee using the lifeboats, while some passengers in life jackets tried to hang on to the ship and the debris. "The captain took the first speed boat, even though he should go last," Mr. Taghyan said. "There was yelling and screaming and people dying and there were people dead in their life vests, and there were huge waves." ....

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/05/in...a/05egypt.html


“Disturbing questions about both the behaviour of the captain of the Red Sea ferry that sank with the loss of about 800 passengers, and the state of the vessel, were raised yesterday.
As indications emerged that the cause of the disaster was a fire that broke out on a lorry in the cargo hold, survivors being brought ashore yesterday told of the crew's insistence that all was well. There was also strong criticism of the captain, who reportedly had been among the first to man a lifeboat and leave the ship.”

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...icle343296.ece

[safewalrus]

As I said the Master (I hate that Captain appelation, tis a military rank, or can refer to anything - Capt. of the Heads [a well known job of mine] Captain of the local football team, etc) went to sh** for his own reasons - pressure from the company no doubt;

"you get there on time Captain no matter what or we get a man who can",

most of us have heard that in one way or another before and there's always some little sh** who will drop you in it. When, as in Egypt, the alternative is probably starvation for you and your family (all 37 of them!) there ain't no choice is there! Go on bullsh** me there is! Ask the concentration camp guards at Treblinka! - they go up the chimney or you and your family go with them!

And as we all know when the boss sez jump we all bloody well jump!

Incidentally in case you are worried I ain't sticking up for THIS Master, he done wrong and deserves to be hung for his lack of skill! But I DO have compassion for ANYBODY in his postion!

Look on the good side, there is one! think about it - not P.C. but......