Sea Silk Road....... ship of olden days

[Mayfly]

I have seen show on Silk Road on TV, it was when Nat Geo old edition of silk road fall into my hand did I realized there was a sea silk road.... Spice road. Anybody saw ant article on it or knew something about it? Marco Polo guy was one of the few well known seafarer of the trade route.

[Guillermo]

Talking about spice sea roads, there were two main maritime routes:

The Manila Galleon, on the spanish side.
This galeon brought spices and other items from Phillippines to Acapulco, Mexico, then goods went over land to Veracruz, and from there, joined with gold, silver and other goods from America, went to Spain (If not robbed by the british or dutch... )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manila_galleons
http://www.loyola.tij.uia.mx/ebooks/...nila.%20VI.pdf


On the portuguese side there was the 'Spice Route' following the coast of Africa, India and south east Asia, to the portuguese colonies. Maybe Vega will tell us more about this. Vega?

[Wellydeckhand]

Mmmm...... spanish gold.....

[Vega]

"Fishermen from the province of Fujian and Guangdong farmers were the first known settlers in Macau. It was known as Ou Mun or Trading Gate because of its location at the mouth of the Pearl River. In ancient times the port city was part of the Silk Road where ships loaded the precious fabric for transportation to Rome. "
http://getaway.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=57085

"Macau was born centuries before Hong Kong was even conceived. Portuguese ships first landed in southern China in 1513; in 1557, Portugal acquired Macau from China. Before long, Macau had achieved a virtual monopoly on trade between China, Japan, and Europe, making the city Portugal's most important trading center in Asia and the greatest port in the East in the early 1600s.

As the only Europeans engaged in trade in Asia, the Portuguese made a fortune acting as middlemen. Every spring, Portuguese ships laden with Indian goods and European crystal and wines sailed out of Goa, anchored in Malacca to trade for spices, stopped in Macau for silk brought down from China, and then traveled on to Nagasaki to trade the silk for silver, swords, and lacquerware. Using the monsoon winds, the ships returned to Macau to trade silver for more silk and porcelain, then sailed back to Goa where the exotic Asian goods were shipped to eager customers in Europe. The complete circuit from Goa and back took several years."

http://www.frommers.com/destinations...491010012.html

MSLF sponsored the Macau and the Maritime Silk Route International Conference with the UNESCO Center, and the Macau Center for Maritime Silk Route Studies. The conference took place in Macau from 12-14 March 1999.

http://www.mslf.org.mo/2-MSLF-News/e.../silkroute.htm

[Vega]

Originally Posted by Mayfly

Marco Polo guy was one of the few well known seafarer of the trade route.

One among many.Take a look:

http://www.silk-road.com/artl/srtravelbib.html

My favorite one is Ibn Battuta:

"Ibn Battuta started on his travels when he was 20 years old in 1325. His main reason to travel was to go on a Hajj, or a Pilgrimage to Mecca, as all good Muslims want to do. But his traveling went on for about 29 years and he covered about 75,000 miles visiting the equivalent of 44 modern countries ....
He met many dangers and had many adventures along the way. He was attacked by bandits, almost drowned in a sinking ship, was almost beheaded by a tyrant ruler, and had a few marriages and lovers and fathered several children on his travels!"

This is a map of the Muslim World about 1300. Ibn Battuta mainly traveled in the area surrounded by the green line ."

http://www.sfusd.k12.ca.us/schwww/sc...uta_Rihla.html

[Wellydeckhand]

you are talking about Blackship trade route too?

[Vega]

Originally Posted by Wellydeckhand

you are talking about Blackship trade route too?

Yes, they used black boats (tar for wood protection), and in that region of the world it was not used. A blackship was to them very strange. So, they used to call the Portuguese Naus, the Blackships.

[safewalrus]

Guillermo

Sorry to be a pain, but the majority of Good trades (spices etc) back then was controlled by the Spanish, who just wouldn't trade with anyone else! After Holland stopped being a colony of the Spanish the only way they and The fledgling English nation had to obtain these materials was to steal it -we became rather good at it too, as was seen! It wasn't cheaper (lost a LOT of good seamen obtaining this stuff) but financially yeah we did OK! Now just why is this system frowned on these days, could make a lot of money in this 'privateering' (sorry reminising - hey I'm not that old, just feel it!)

[Vega]

Originally Posted by safewalrus

Guillermo
but the majority of Good trades (spices etc) back then was controlled by the Spanish, who just wouldn't trade with anyone else! ....English nation had to obtain these materials was to steal it -we became rather good at it too, as was seen! )

What are you talking about? Spices, trade? With Spain It was all about Silver, Gold, Pearls and Emeralds.

[Guillermo]

Originally Posted by Vega

What are you talking about? Spices, trade? With Spain It was all about Silver, Gold, Pearls and Emeralds.

Well, The 'Manila galleon' idea was conceived by king Phillip II precisely to compete against the portuguese trade of spices , as you had the monopoly of the route of the Cape of Good Hope from 1522. The 'Manila Galleon' traded happily for 250 years with only 4 ships lost because of piracy, all four of them due to british pirates (Sorry, Mike )

[Vega]

Originally Posted by Guillermo

The 'Manila Galleon' traded happily for 250 years with only 4 ships lost because of piracy, all four of them due to british pirates (Sorry, Mike )

and more than 40 lost at sea.

[Guillermo]

From Wikipedia pages:
"A total of 110 Manila Galleons set sail in the 250 years of the Manila-Acapulco galleon trade (1565 to 1815). Until 1593, three or more ships would set sail annually from both ports. The Manila trade was becoming so lucrative that the merchants of Seville petitioned Philip, complaining of their losses, and secured a law in 1593 that set a limit of only two ships to sail each year from either port, with one kept in reserve in both Acapulco and Manila, to control the trade with the exception of an armada, an armed escort. With such limitations, it was essential to build the largest possible galleons, which were the largest wooden ships ever built until that time. In the 16th century, they averaged from 1,700 to 2,000 tons, were built of Philippine hardwoods and might carry a thousand passengers."

[Wellydeckhand]

So for Mexican gold I heard the spanish and portugal have a bit of fight, yes? It sort of wipe out the native Incas or Aztec? Which built a whole city on top of a man made island......

[Vega]

Originally Posted by Wellydeckhand

So for Mexican gold I heard the spanish and portugal have a bit of fight, yes? It sort of wipe out the native Incas or Aztec? Which built a whole city on top of a man made island......

Nah! The Mexican gold was all on the Spanish half of the world.

You know, the Pope, to prevent the possibility of those fights between good Christians, divided the world in two and then gave a half to Spain and a half to Portugal.

Mexico was on the Spanish half!

[Guillermo]

Originally Posted by Vega

...the Pope, to prevent the possibility of those fights between good Christians, divided the world in two and then gave a half to Spain and a half to Portugal. ....

He gave you nothing in America! WE gave you a bit of Brazil by the Tordesillas Treaty, but you managed to finally took the whole of it!