Sea Silk Road....... ship of olden days

[Wellydeckhand]

I think I need more spanish and portugal resident members to confirm this? Sound so outlandish and incredible.

[Guillermo]

Originally Posted by Wellydeckhand

..Sound so outlandish and incredible.

Yes! The real, big, hidden and only worldwide oceans war for the ruling of world is the Portuguese-Spanish one! Brithish, Dutch, Americans, French, Germans, etc., are newcomers and apprentices to it!

[Mayfly]

The Isabella problem...... nice woman

[safewalrus]

Guillermo

When we took only four Manila Galleons we were only training! (at least the British were the only sucessful pirates - sez something, but I'm not sure what!)! Welly you missed a whole lot of fun, blood thirsty lot we were, and so were Gillermo's lot and Vega's too! Didn't bother too much who we had as allies either, or when we turned on each other (or ourselves even) yet again another salutary lesson to be learned somewhere!

And now the new kids on the block are having a go in the middle east, some nations have been there done that! and we're back again - is this turning political? or does it just show the folly of man?

when will we ever learn?

[Vega]

Originally Posted by safewalrus

Guillermo

When we took only four Manila Galleons we were only training! (at least the British were the only sucessful pirates) ... blood thirsty lot we were...

Yes, you are right about that

…”.the Manila galleon San Sebastian. It was 1753 that this galleon sailed for Acapulco from Manila with an estimated 2 million dollars in cargo. …Unfortunately for this crew as they entered the outer Santa Barbara Channel they spotted the sails of a British pirate ship captained by George Compton.
The captain of the San Sebastion foolhardy decided to try to outrun the pirates. His cumbersome galleon was quickly overtaken and given a broadside of cannon fire that knocked out the ships' rudderpost. The San Sebastion lost control and struck a rock protruding from the sea near the shore of San Clemente Island. The ship split open and sank right away. Twenty-one survivors managed to make it to the rocks nearby.
Compton, was very upset that his prize was lost to the sea so he lowered his longboats and rowed to where the survivors lay exhausted. Then he proceeded to torture and mutilate the survivors until they were all dead. “

http://www.e-adventure.net/sea/nauti...cationing.html

[Wellydeckhand]

err....... Cheng Ho was too busy giving away free gift to neighbouring brother.... mass discount type of things..........

[safewalrus]

Vega

Yse mate frustration can be a nasty thing, but better to have shoved 'em into the water and told 'em to get swimming - downwards!

[Vega]

Originally Posted by safewalrus

Vega

Yse mate frustration can be a nasty thing, but better to have shoved 'em into the water and told 'em to get swimming - downwards!

Safewalrus, you are too bloody and cruel to my taste but I guess it is only on the surface. I bet that you did not approve of those countrymen's of yours. To make you happier, I have another story of an English pirate attack to another Manila Galleon.
A real Gentleman pirate performed this one. Bad manners were so unbearable to him that he hanged only the ones that talked dirty: "Don Juan de Almendrales, canon of Manila, would later be hanged for ...using abusive language on his captors.

I guess that they only killed everybody if they were in a bad mood






On the heels of the upstart Nuestra Señora de Buena Esperanza, the official trade galleon of 1587 from Manila. the Santa Ana, approaced the coast of California where it would swing down on a South-South-Easterly course to Acapulco. The galleon was under the command of Tomás de Alzola ...
The Santa Ana had 100 Spaniards and 60 people of color on board. It was also heavily laden with goods. Galleons tended to be overloaded with undeclared goods put on board with the assistance of corrupt port masters. Alzola would later testify that he had to dump some cargo right after leaving Cavite as the ship was nearing Mindoro in an effort to make the ship easier to handle.
.
A lookout on the Santa Ana saw sails between their ship and the California shore. .. as the other ships approached, Alzola raised an alarm because the lookout saw the red and white standards flown by the ships signifying their English nationality.
Alzola ordered camouflage netting to be deployed and distributed rocks, swords, and two arquebuses to all able-bodied hands. The Santa Ana had no cannons to defend herself. .
As the Desire drew alongside, several Englishmen boarded the Santa Ana and fierce hand-to-hand combat erupted. The initial attack was repulsed and the Englishmen withdrew, many jumping into the sea to escape the wrath of the defenders.
The Desire charged again, shooting artillery and ramming the Santa Ana in turn. Some shells hit their mark and produced holes below the waterline. The English ship drew alongside and some of her men boarded the Santa Ana once more. .. Alzola knew that his ship was sinking, announced to his crew that all was lost, and raised the flag of truce.

Cavendish sent a launch over to pick up Pedro Bravo de Paredes who was designated by Alzola to negotiate with the Englishmen regarding surrender terms. Some officers from the Desire came back in a while and picked up Tomás de Alzola, Fray Francisco Ramos, Don Juan de Almendrales, Antonio de Sierra, Juan Baldonado, and Sebastian Rodriguez Cermeño.
Don Juan de Almendrales, canon of Manila, would later be hanged for fighting and using abusive language on his captors.

The next day the sinking Santa Ana was sailed to shore. The passengers and crew were put ashore together with some thirty other Spaniards who had been captured by Cavendish in earlier encounters. Some indios and negroes were detained on board the Santa Ana to man the pumps. Cavendish wanted the Santa Ana to remain afloat until he recovered all its cargo.
Cavendish and his men spent the next several days sacking the ship.

After the sacking, the Santa Ana was beached and set afire. The fire went on for four long days before dying out.
Cavendish gave arms and provisions to the men and women he had set ashore. He left them arquebuses, swords, sailcloth, utensils, wine, garbanzos, and other provisions. He returned to Alzola the ship’s registry which he signed as a receipt for the things that he took as war booty.

..., the marooned men and women made the best of their situation. After 12 days, some of the men swam to the burnt-out hull of the Santa Ana to check it out. The bottom part which was in the water was intact.
The men spent the next few days bailing water out of the lower part of the ship, scraping the wood, and making a few repairs until it floated again. They fashioned a mast from some pieces of wood they salvaged and used the material left them by Cavendish to make a sail.
After 36 days is San Lucas, they were underway again on December 21. They spent Christmas at sea and reached the Port of Santiago on January 2, 1588 where they discharged 11 sick passengers. They reached Acapulco on January 6, 1588 ....

The news of the sacking of the Santa Ana reached New Spain and Manila almost simultaneously. It caused shock waves... It was not Portugal anymore that was the enemy but a Protestant nation that would not take orders from the Pope.

Francis Drake did not cause the Spaniards to worry too much. It took Thomas Cavendish and the tremendous commercial loss of the Santa Ana to wake everybody up to the fact the the Pacific was not a Spanish lake anymore. Then, as today, commercial interests were the prime movers of international policy.

[Guillermo]

Originally Posted by Vega

..., the marooned men and women made the best of their situation. After 12 days, some of the men swam to the burnt-out hull of the Santa Ana to check it out. The bottom part which was in the water was intact.
The men spent the next few days bailing water out of the lower part of the ship, scraping the wood, and making a few repairs until it floated again. They fashioned a mast from some pieces of wood they salvaged and used the material left them by Cavendish to make a sail.
After 36 days is San Lucas, they were underway again on December 21. They spent Christmas at sea and reached the Port of Santiago on January 2, 1588 where they discharged 11 sick passengers. They reached Acapulco on January 6, 1588 ....

That's seamanship...!

[Vega]

Yes, and they didn't limit themeslves to make a landfall somehere, they "stoped" at Santiago,(12 days trip) just to left 11 sick "passengers" and they left for a 4 day's trip to Acapulco. It looks that if necessary they could have sailed to Spain

[safewalrus]

Fantastic seamanship I would say! I take my hat off to those gentlemen!

Vega - A blood thirsty gringo English Protestant Heratic I might be but even I can't see the sense in torturing and killing men, women and children needlessly, and if you must kill them (and there are times when you must) do it without torture and do it quickly and cleanly = as you would a sheep or cow or other animal!