question is: are we sticking with Einstein?

[yipster]

neutrino particles seem to be faster than licht contradicting Einstein's E=mc2
http://news.sky.com/home/technology/article/16075434
http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report...-wrong_1590703
http://www.rferl.org/content/subatom.../24337522.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...hHrK_blog.html
this would make time travel possible and God knows what not
question is should boat and ship designers stick with Einstein?

[portacruise]

Einstein doesn't come into play for anything boat designers would do, AFAIK.

Even if the experiment is confirmed, Einstein isn't repudiated.

Some comments from a friend of mine that keeps up with this kind of stuff:

"Alcubierre is one of the leading thinkers of our day on 'warp'
creation. The idea being that if you can fold spacetime, you can cheat on
the speed of light limit and still stay with Einstein's relativity. Of
course with all the manifold universes that currently in vogue, this is
easily explained by hopping in and out of a specific one that has a
different 'speed of light' constant. Like jumping across between two trains
running down the track with one traveling faster than the other. To the
slower train, it looks like your able to break the barrier."

Porta

Originally Posted by yipster

neutrino particles seem to be faster than licht contradicting Einstein's E=mc2
http://news.sky.com/home/technology/article/16075434
http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report...-wrong_1590703
http://www.rferl.org/content/subatom.../24337522.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...hHrK_blog.html
this would make time travel possible and what not, so question is:
should we boat and ship designers stick with Einstein?

[CatBuilder]

Originally Posted by portacruise

"Alcubierre is one of the leading thinkers of our day on 'warp'
creation. The idea being that if you can fold spacetime, you can cheat on
the speed of light limit and still stay with Einstein's relativity. Of
course with all the manifold universes that currently in vogue, this is
easily explained by hopping in and out of a specific one that has a
different 'speed of light' constant. Like jumping across between two trains
running down the track with one traveling faster than the other. To the
slower train, it looks like your able to break the barrier."

Porta

Yup. Either that or we have finally discovered something exciting. I'm not sure how the folks at CERN could have accidentally warped the spacetime they transmitted this neutrino beam through, but stranger things have happened (pun intended).

Maybe neutrinos aren't as affected by gravity as we thought and skipped over the curved spacetime of the Earth's little groove, arriving more directly in Italy from CERN than if they the normal route through our Earth's dent in spacetime. Maybe there is an "escape velocity/mass or energy" for particles to skip over the Earth's dent in spacetime and arrive more quickly than light travels. The neutrino beam may have had a lot more energy (mass x velocity) than a light beam owing to its greater mass, compared to a beam of photons (light). Is this one of CERN's most energetic beams?

The probable outcome of this great new experimental data (if accurate) is that there is another set of laws that are being discovered, much like Einstein's work (which was laid on the foundations of so many others) was an extension to Newtonian Physics.

These types of discoveries are almost always, historically, add ons to existing theory. For example, until you are at relativistic speeds and/or masses, you don't see any relativity effects, despite using special relativity equations to calculate movement. What happens (incredibly) at low speeds is that the relativistic parts of the special relativity equations end up going to 0 (zero) and dropping out of the special relativity equations. What are you left after the relativistic terms drop out of the equation? Most amazingly, just the simple Newtonian equations of motion!

This type of new discovery (again, if proven) might just be a clue to something that will unify quantum and relativity in an elegant and simple way. Can't wait to see how this turns out...

These are the times I wish I stuck with my old career. Oh well, boats are cool too.

[Wavewacker]

And therefore, time travel is possible...

[tom kane]

IF you want to travel back in time you would have to put every particle and wave back into the position they were in at that time.. a big task. There is no such" thing" as time (my opinion) that is a human invention to calculate. What we call time is just constant change. Enthropy?. There is also one point in time in all Universes.

[DCockey]

Anyone remeber cold fusion?

[rasorinc]

I do and I was hoping it would be proven.

[BATAAN]

I am always impressed at the level of intelligence among boat people in general and you guys in particular.
In science there is always something just out of reach of our intellectual grasp, that next level of understanding the interconnectedness of everything.
If this turns out to be an accurate measurement, it's a whole new ball game, and undergrads have something to dream about.

[hoytedow]

Next Ford; the 2013 Neutrino.

[hoytedow]

What happens if you are traveling at the speed of light and you turn on your flashlight? Does it slow you down?

[PAR]

We've long suspected there are particles that can go faster then the Einstein "constant" and the neutrino as well as elemental photons have been at the top of the list, not to mention some odder "bits" of elements. This isn't anything new folks, at least to those with an interest in particle physics and elemental dynamics.

Hoytedow, yes, if traveling in a vacuum, you will slow, if ever so slightly, when turning on a flash light in an opposing direction to your travel. I've had an interest in particle physics since high school and the varied subjects and theories can become quite overwhelming, without a fairly strong grasp on the fundamentals. To this, photons have been a perplexing little thing for a long time. I have my personal theory, which suggests they maintain the constant by "orbital encounter", which is yet to be proven and wasn't a very mainstream idea until 20 years ago.

If you can keep up, it a fascinating set of subjects, but Einstein has always been wrong and we all have known this, but at present there's only unproven theories. Where Einstein earned his credits, was proving that Newtonian physics was flawed and more importantly, was able to prove it with solar eclipse observations in Australia in the early 1920's.

[tom28571]

Originally Posted by tom kane

IF you want to travel back in time you would have to put every particle and wave back into the position they were in at that time.. a big task. There is no such" thing" as time (my opinion) that is a human invention to calculate. What we call time is just constant change. Enthropy?. There is also one point in time in all Universes.

My position also Tom. Time is the measure we put on a sequence of events. You can think about a single time as existing in different points in space but you can't connect these two points at that single time.

[daiquiri]

The folks from CERN are very cautios about the results they've got. Their level of confidence in the measurements taken is very high, they have allegedly repeatedly reviewed all the possible sources of error and have came out with nothing that would point towards a systematic error. Since the implications of breaking the speed-of-light barrier are very huge, they have invited the rest of scientific community to inependently review their experiment and possibly to perform other similar experiments which would either confirm or deny these results.
I was rather thinking about this possibility: since the measurement error is alegedly extremely small (0.00041% time error, 0.000025% distance error), could it be simply that they have actually measured the speed of light with a new precision, better than was done in the past? In other words, maybe the speed of light is actually the value they have measured and not the previously accepted one?

[hoytedow]

Everyone who has owned a radiometer knows you will go faster if you paint your transom silver, but only in a vacuum.

[Mr Efficiency]

Hmmm....this thread must be about a Light Ship. Here's one:

http://www.maritimemuseum.com.au/Col...arpentaria.htm