The power grid scam

[CDK]

Originally Posted by capt_jack

Most utilities bill based on wattage. Voltage x current is the most common calculation so yes, voltage will affect watts even if the actual current remains the same. (There are other formulas involving resistance, I'm using the most simple as an example). If they raise the line voltage they should recalibrate the meters would be my guess. You may not be "using" any more power but the measurement at the meter would no longer be accurate (depending on exactly which type of meter is used).

ETA; I should be more clear. This forum seems to have members from all over the World so there isn't one rule in place.

Most modern power meters take live readings of the voltage, current and other elements related to the devices on the line and the type of loads they present and are accurate no matter what changes are made to supply voltage. (Residential LCD read out meters are probably all going to be this type).

Older mechanical wheel type meters might calculate based on live conditions and might not. It all depends on how old they are. In the US the meter would have to be very, very old for line voltage to create issues.

The issue is that in Europe a lot of homes use meters which calculate based on time in hour, half hour, etc increments. What I've read is that quite a few of these are based on constant line voltage and would need to be calibrated. If they have LCDs and remote reporting they are more than likely new enough to calculate based on supply voltage, current, etc.

Commercial meters should be checked if the line voltage changes. If you know your area is changing line voltage and have a commercial meter you should call your utility to confirm if the meter needs calibration or not. Because some of them use a different system to calculate total use there might be an issue, especially on older meters.

I am familiar with both the rotating devices and the digital ones, but in other countries there may be types I am not aware of.
Both measure current and voltage, but are calibrated in kW.
If you raise the grid voltage, the current increases linearly for resistive loads, for inductive loads the current also increases but in a more complex way that depends on the type and size of the core. Near saturation the current rises steeply until the device burns out.

It is like the butcher who always cuts off more than you order, but at least he has the decency to ask you if it is OK. The electricity company doesn't ask anything but supplies energy you do not need and bills you for it.

[dskira]

ENRON was a energy company, right?
They screw big deal California and make billion, which they spent very fast.
Energy is a joke.
It is in the hand of a minority new Enron style companies.
We are the sucker.
It's modern life.
Daniel

gradually ban incandescent light bulbs,
Thats Not a very Brite Idea.


I do have a workable soultion for you Europeans and would be happy to help out folks from the Old Countries.


Send me some Cash and Ill go to the hardware store and get you some good old American Incandesent Light bulbs. These run on 110- to 120 VAC and you can wire them in series and use them overseas and get twice as much light for your money.

How Bout that.

And remember that since when measuring lumins 2 + 2 dont equal 4. Your actually getting more Candelpower .

Send Lots of Cash and Stock up for the next Millinium with American Light Bulbs.

Now Thats a Bright IDEA!

[CDK]

I do encourage any serious attempt to reduce power consumption, but the way it turns out now there will be no net savings at all.

Self interest causes the electricity producers to supply more than we need. A higher electricity bill will lead to lower consumption in part of society but in the meanwhile fuel keeps being wasted.

All our domestic appliances accept a margin of -10/+6% to properly function, except cheap microwave ovens (-5%). Large savings are possible starting tomorrow without any investment in new light bulbs if only the electricity distributors were held accountable for delivering excess amounts.

There are simple technical solutions to track the difference between nominal voltage and amps and the actual values; a serious government could monthly fine excess electricity production based on these figures.

But I see the flaw: a serious government.....

[hoytedow]

Originally Posted by Tug

If everyone uses less electricity....the price of electricity will go up....
There is no saving money for the home owner....
Just savings for the electricity providers...
Cheers
Tug

This happened in Pinellas County, Florida with water. The authorities begged people to use less water, then raised the price when water use fell below the minimum budget needed to support the infrastructure.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/environ...cle1080875.ece

[hoytedow]

The fluorescent lights dim considerably over their lifetime and have mercury in them. That makes them great for the environment which you won't be able to see very well because the light will be to dim. Also the fluorescent lights trigger migraine headaches and, in some susceptible individuals, epilepsy.

[daiquiri]

Originally Posted by hoytedow

This happened in Pinellas County, Florida with water. The authorities begged people to use less water, then raised the price when water use fell below the minimum budget needed to support the infrastructure.

But that is a normal market behaviour (law of demand), perfectly expected. The ultimate goal was to decrease the consumption of water, and that one was reached...

[Stumble]

Originally Posted by J3

When power companies are encouraging efficiency, I can only believe they're salivating over charging us more for less

Not really they are trying to avoid the expense of building multi-billion dollar power stations in a environment where the permitting process takes decades, the local scream every time there is a new unsubstantiated health scare, and tort liability is ever increasing.