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Originally Posted by Willallison

Aw **** - I'm starting to enjoy myself here
But I did notice that one of you chaps whipped a few points off my rep for calling you political fools..... for which I once again apologise - personal snipes are always the end result of political discussion. But it also reinforces my point: if we so vehemently dissagree here, then all that is posted elsewhere will be sullied - I wonder if you will read my opinion on say stability and think - "oh that's that bloody Will who like Howard - he doesn't know what he's talking about"....?

Ok - Pedra Branca is located but 12nm due south of S.E Cape - the southernmost oint of mainland Tasmania. A particularly inhospitable, but quite spectacular rock that just up out of the Southern Ocean. Waves regularly wash over the 60 metre high outcrop - occaisionally washing the odd crazy kayaker off in the process.

I've crossed Noosa bar in a couple of boats - neither of them 80ft long! Both were trailer boats - indeed my cruising north of Brisbane has all been in trailer boats.

Poida - I'm not a politician - though I confess to having considered it - at least at a local level. But at the end of the day, it is a truly thankless task - just whitness the venom you guys have dished out. It's a job that is grossly underpaid.
The wonderful thing about living in a democracy is that not only can you say what you like (within reason) but evry citizen has the opportunity to stand to represent the people. If the boys and girls who run our lives (and nobody could argues that we aren't overgoverned!) are doing such an appalling job, why don't you lot put your hand up - you obviously feel you can do a better job of it....

well i never took your points!! cos I lost points once for swearing and boy was I hopping mad, so , you joined the club,
But within reason, if I were to say I have a certain admiration for a man living somewhere in a cave, who never tells lies, would the Aust thought police be on my door? answer Yes!!

[alan white]

It doesn't work that way in my country, Will. You will note that most every congressman in the US congress is a millionaire.
The president is a multi-millionaire, the vice president is a multi-millionaire, and were before they used the office to get even richer.
The press who decide what we hear are millionaires, the anchor people who tell it are too.

With 50 million, I could run for president. That's what it takes on average. Kerry could run cause his wife was a billionaire. So could Ross Perot.
I'm sure it's not like that in Australia. But it's like that here. You've either got money, or you don't get elected.
Yes, you can raise it. Just get together a few million and you can pack a stadium.

[longliner45]

its not right for someone to take points from willy here ,,this is a open disscusion of local politics,,not technical boat building ,,and those who choose not to engage are more than wellcome ,not to engage,,it show lack of substance ..and manhood,,and such an ungentalmanly way to take points and not be known,,,if you are this wormy on the computer ,,you must be twice a snake in person,probably cant even look yourself in the mirror ,,,ask jack ,,I always sign my name ,,,,to everything ,,,longliner

[Willallison]

Having money in the 1st place makes it easier definitely I agree. But it's still possible to start at a local level, become recognisable as a public figure, then go raise the cash.
A little idealistic perhaps, but surely doable.....

Originally Posted by longliner45

its not right for someone to take points from willy here ,,this is a open disscusion of local politics,,not technical boat building ,,and those who choose not to engage are more than wellcome ,not to engage,,it show lack of substance ..and manhood,,and such an ungentalmanly way to take points and not be known,,,if you are this wormy on the computer ,,you must be twice a snake in person,probably cant even look yourself in the mirror ,,,ask jack ,,I always sign my name ,,,,to everything ,,,longliner

yeppers Longliner will always tell me when he gives be such
I asked the admin why they did not scrap the neg stuff, cos all we really need is pos feedback for pos contributions, alas never go a reply,

[Frosty]

It might have been me!!

I dont know for sure I cant remember. I know I had had a few that night when I read wills first post.

I have this feeling It could have been. What was the message? does it sound like me.

EDIT I dont think it can be me because I just rested the pointer on wills rep points and I was able to give or take points therefore it cant have been me. I would have had to spread some before i could give or take more.

Disregard this message---- sorry

cant delete because someone might have read it.

[alan white]

Hahahaha! Jack, you are hilarious!

[charmc]

Gave you some points to offset, Will. That whole system needs to be changed.

As Alan said, Will, the system in the US is totally money driven. The best man or woman in the world will not get noticed unless he/she can raise a minimum of $50 million USD. That's just to be taken seriously. The winner will have spent well over $100 million USD this time. The big money comes with strings, and much of the voting public has been conditioned by the MTV cutaway and sound bite syndrome, plus the news wankers' desire to dramatize everything, to the point that a single word or phrase can make someone appear to be lying, disrespectful to some group, or virtually any image chosen by the TV producers. The news companies encourage polarization on issues and personalities, the "my guy is good, the other guy is evil" mentality, because it increases drama, which increases their ratings, which increases their advertizing revenue, etc.

The result is each candidate has an army of "handlers" who plan everything to be said to appeal to certain target groups without antagonizing anyone else. In truth, as our last two elections demonstrated, there isn't much real difference between the two major parties, and the country is pretty equally divided, so the elections have been very close, which means a few votes here or there can decide the outcome, so naturally there are accusations of foul play ...

If I sound discouraged, it's because I am. Just once I'd like to see someone with the courage to be a leader, and offer to do what's best for the country, without the party corruption. Be nice if that happens ... be nice if Sharon Stone asks me to co-star in her next movie ... probably equal chance.

[charmc]

Originally Posted by jack frost

EDIT I dont think it can be me because I just rested the pointer on wills rep points and I was able to give or take points therefore it cant have been me. I would have had to spread some before i could give or take more.

Disregard this message---- sorry

cant delete because someone might have read it.

Jack, you're showing more and more of your thoughtful and caring side, soon there will be a vacancy in the position of professional curmudgeon!

[alan white]

Well said, Charlie. Does the system have to completely fail in order to change? It would seem. See how insane it can get, and it's the stock market, fiat currency, banks and huge corporate conglomerates managing to push it to the limit one more day longer. The polititions are just their errand boys.
Unsustainable.

Originally Posted by charmc

Gave you some points to offset, Will. That whole system needs to be changed.

As Alan said, Will, the system in the US is totally money driven. The best man or woman in the world will not get noticed unless he/she can raise a minimum of $50 million USD. That's just to be taken seriously. The winner will have spent well over $100 million USD this time. The big money comes with strings, and much of the voting public has been conditioned by the MTV cutaway and sound bite syndrome, plus the news wankers' desire to dramatize everything, to the point that a single word or phrase can make someone appear to be lying, disrespectful to some group, or virtually any image chosen by the TV producers. The news companies encourage polarization on issues and personalities, the "my guy is good, the other guy is evil" mentality, because it increases drama, which increases their ratings, which increases their advertizing revenue, etc.

The result is each candidate has an army of "handlers" who plan everything to be said to appeal to certain target groups without antagonizing anyone else. In truth, as our last two elections demonstrated, there isn't much real difference between the two major parties, and the country is pretty equally divided, so the elections have been very close, which means a few votes here or there can decide the outcome, so naturally there are accusations of foul play ...

If I sound discouraged, it's because I am. Just once I'd like to see someone with the courage to be a leader, and offer to do what's best for the country, without the party corruption. Be nice if that happens ... be nice if Sharon Stone asks me to co-star in her next movie ... probably equal chance.

i think there should be a requirement for ALL candidates to be able to speak a foreign language or two, look at that dumbo, never ever been outside USA and he is president ever more important as we tackle the future, a leader who could speak Manderin and Russian, imagine what respect that would bring It never ever fails to amaze me, that you can invent all these wonderful things and have a leader like you do.

[charmc]

Originally Posted by lazeyjack

i think there should be a requirement for ALL candidates to be able to speak a foreign language or two, look at that dumbo, never ever been outside USA and he is president ever more important as we tackle the future, a leader who could speak Manderin and Russian, imagine what respect that would bring It never ever fails to amaze me, that you can invent all these wonderful things and have a leader like you do.

Stu,

If the typical voter gave 10% of the thought to his/her vote that the contributors to this forum give to their statements, the system might be different. We end up voting for the lesser bad choice rather than the best, and the vast majority of voters are single issue motivated or just vote in response to last minute feelings.

I'm not sure I'd codify multilingual competence, but I agree with your point. Voters get the leadership they tolerate, and we end up with candidates whose main talent is raising big money. I agree that any candidate for President should have demonstrated a firm grasp of international issues and the willingness and ability to evaluate the impact of American policy on other nations.

Not throwing sticks, but the problem seems to be endemic. More politicians than leaders everywhere. I'd like to believe we can change it without a catastrophic upheavel, but some days I fear Alan may be right.

[Frosty]

[quote=lazeyjack;143957 look at that dumbo, never ever been outside USA and he is president [/QUOTE]

YES--Bloody amazing isnt it.

America loves razzle dazzle, fame and fortune, film stars, glamour.

They vote in film stars. Reagan-- jees he could hardly speak without Nancy at his side.

He was a cowboy in movies ???? what the?

Arnold Swartznigger Ok seems to be doing somthing, but still got there by being a film star.

Robo Cop Did the American public think that Arnold would help them because he was in the movie Robo Cop, and Rambo.

You know what I seriously think they do

I cant think of another country that chooses it leaders with such criteria.

You voted them in. Maybe not YOU but your next door neighbour did.

The way politicians are paraded in front of the media. These so called 'Stand off' interviews --face to face with thier most immediate opnonent.


To be able to do that with all the sphico involved takes a very special person, at acting, stage, public speaking. Not politics,--- well that is politics today.

Thats because thats what we the public wants to see.

Big rich people never want to be politicians. Bill gates,, Richard Branson!!

Cant do the public bit.

[alan white]

Gee, now I got you depressed! I'm no economist, but the wealth of this country has gravitated away from education-based technologies and towards a position-based economy.
The problem with this is that the rest of the world, China, India, Indonesia, etc., are moving towards technology-based economies. They sell their goods to us, we pay them because we still have position.
Then the dollar isn't the favored currency any more. Then they make a bigger share of the profits because they own the companies, not us.
Tariffs won't work because our money is becoming more worthless day by day.
Our corporations are offshore-based, pay no taxes, and still they won't be able to compete enough to keep their stock values up.
They can't compete with emerging third world corporations who have cut out the middleman.
In the last few years, I've seen old established American companies putting their marque on Chinese goods and selling them against their equals having obvious Chinese packaging.
So Sears sells Craftsman power tools, all made in China, made to appear like quality--- and the quality IS getting better. Milwaukee, Dewalt, all will go through this.
So who needs the pretense--- and when that's gone, the stock market begins its dive.

Originally Posted by charmc

Stu,

If the typical voter gave 10% of the thought to his/her vote that the contributors to this forum give to their statements, the system might be different. We end up voting for the lesser bad choice rather than the best, and the vast majority of voters are single issue motivated or just vote in response to last minute feelings.

I'm not sure I'd codify multilingual competence, but I agree with your point. Voters get the leadership they tolerate, and we end up with candidates whose main talent is raising big money. I agree that any candidate for President should have demonstrated a firm grasp of international issues and the willingness and ability to evaluate the impact of American policy on other nations.

Not throwing sticks, but the problem seems to be endemic. More politicians than leaders everywhere. I'd like to believe we can change it without a catastrophic upheavel, but some days I fear Alan may be right.

i think it is absolutely essential to be multi Lingual from now on it, you look at Blair, for all his(later ) faults, the bastard was educated and speaks French like a Parisien, this gave him a great deal of Kudos in Eu, , you look at Putin , he can't speak Eng. but he is a very very intelligent man, you can almost see him smirking at Bush these days the De chanceller has always spoken Eng and God knows what else
Anyways I go for Hilary, at least she may stop this advance of neo conservatism, GRRRRRRRRRR of stuff it, my next thread is on Celestial Nav