Our Oceans are Under Attack

[masalai]

I sometimes feel the efforts of doing what is necessary by caring for the future, is like pushing **** uphill with a pointy stick - am all too often tempted to shove that pointy stick up the fundamental orifice of some of the blind recalcitrant emus/ostriches that seem to love to bury their collective heads in the sands of denial....

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by fasteddy106

Hey, are you competing with Boston for being an obnoxious elitist or did you guys learn to be insulting and smug at the same prep school.

Very sorry there Eddy, I didn't mean to be insulting and smug.

I'm just so often surprised at lack of knowledge many US citizens have about the big variety of other cultures of this world.

[Boston]

its a thankless battle Mas
I gave a short lecture on the plight of Asian elephants to a small audience the other week and almost none of them realized there were only about 30,000 left in the wild and that number is dwindling fast
really fast
its strange
in an area of the world were the three major religions all venerate the elephant there is virtually no conservation effort sufficient to ensure the species survival
if people who worship elephants cant find it in there hearts to save them from extinction
what hope is there for species that have less glamorous a positions in the human mythos

your analogy seems accurate enough
maybe we just need more people to try rather a little harder
whole thing is a crime no one is accountable for
and few are willing to do enough about it
to make a difference

its called apathy

the two largest extinction events known were both most likely caused by an anaerobic stratification of the oceans ( or at least it was a significant contribution to the events )
basically the oceans died

this time round
it was apathy and ignorance

B

Don't let the head² get off that easy, eddy - You're doin' a good job but call him on things like not knowing the difference between "expose" and "espouse". He's in this league, invited or not, and it's immaterial that his buddies gave him some karma points. It's immaterial that English may not be his first language. He didn't make a typo to make us think he's a prick - He's just a prick. Call him out.
"like pushing ****" - "Not just LIKE it..."
"my last post strangely wandered off course somewhat" - What is new?
"I'm just so often surprised at lack of knowledge many US citizens have..." -Any time, any subject, _______.
Just like everything else, we build it, we drag their asses from the fire and, like a muslim using a cell-phone to detonate his kid near some Westerners (ahhh.., they blow up so fast...) the ungrateful use our technology to turn on us till the next time they need bailing out. They can just shove it.
As for Boston, I'm beginning to think that he's the only original one of the bunch. Don't have to like him. Still don't like what he stands for most of the time but I believe for him, at least, thoughts are original. Anybody with "mas" in their name, Puerto-potty , TripleTurd, the head².., who else? -just pretenders, the lot.

Here, I'll say it for you - "The ball, not the man." FU. I hope it hurts.

[Boston]

all right kids
I think the lack of civility we are all guilty of from time to time is getting a little out of hand
Mark
I think it would be polite if you did a little editing
lest our moderator do it for you
what do you say
lets keep it a little cleaner

make what point you will
but lets all act a little more civilized ok

You're right. I won't call him "Brian" anymore.

[Knut Sand]

Originally Posted by mark775

"my last post strangely wandered off course somewhat" - What is new?

Ahemm...
Most of this quoted post I read as an attack at Boston's posts (or at ....Boston...?). But I have to point out that the line quoted above here is mine....I admit it's not too original either . And if my posts seem to wander off into the woods, I'll not be to surpriced if I stumble upon you out there, as some of your posts also are pretty far away from the issue of this thread... Unless some "muslim" have gotten to a cellular first....

Why this fear of strangers? Seem embedded in (some parts of) the American society. Even in the Arab world, most people use their phones as.... eh well; phones...? A man with a lot of experience in travelling once said; " A stranger is a friend you have not yet met". Ok, so you get lifted from time to time, so what? Big deal. Some of us Europeans wander about in this world as open/ unsecured minibanks in areas of this world where unemployment is a serious business (= behaving like idjits). But mostly you get friendly faces/ friends.

Just as I would be out of my realm in a Lutefisk eating contest or pushing crab pots uphill, this guy doesn't seem to get any of it.
You nimrods go back to bashing what I, and much of the backbone of the free world have worked hard for. I'm going to go back to work and will seldom notice your keywords (Ugly American, Septic, etc.).

[Boston]

I think what the world ( illusion of freedom or not ) is working hard for is survival
whether it be in the irrational approach of eating every last thing on the planet and then starving
or in the more rational approach of rationing what little there is left in an effort to maintain any form of future supply

Im recomending the later
seems like the logical and decent thing to do

that way we get to enjoy Blue Whales, Stellar Sea Lions, Monk Seals, Killer Whales, Salmon, Tuna and all the rest of the things we live with on this little blue jewel

the science says we have decimated the ocean communities, demolished the ocean ecology, polluted the ocean environment and introduced persistent bio-toxins into the oceans food chain.

If industry would like us to believe something different
whats new


Im positive the guys who fish work dam hard for a living
but the guys who managed the fisheries were fools and failed miserably
and if the fishermen end up frustrated and lashing out in various directions ( regardless of the logic or illogic involved ) Its hard to get to mad at em when most of them at least made some effort to follow the rules. It was the fools who made the rules and there lack of foresight, there lack of concern for much past there wallets, The failure of the governments to govern the open sea and the failure of science to scream loud and long enough to make a difference.
Now the oceans are in deep **** and the solutions are going to be a lot harder to enact let alone enforce. Most fishing regulations today are like that last panicked denial of the cliff we are heading off. Inevitable is what Ive heard it called when already 95/100 fish over one foot are gone and were still taking those last five as fast as we possibly can.

many of the biggest names in ecology are suggesting that we have reached the point were we need some pretty radical solutions be enacted to save the oceans
or we loose them
80% of the corral in the Caribbean
50% of the corral in the Indian ocean
dead
those are some huge numbers
95/100 fish
gone

and folks are still arguing about what the quota should be

estimates range from 10 to 20 years on the survival of open ocean fishing
of the 17 major fisheries at the turn of the last century I think it is 9 that have collapsed with 7 being fished to its presumed but unsustainable limit and 1 ( the Alaskan ) appearing to be sustainable "maybe", Course that wont be for long when its the only commercially viable fishery left and the worlds fishing fleets engage in the feeding frenzy that is bound to follow the opening of the northwest passage.

so what should the quota on that last five percent of the population be
anyone remember what that exponential doubling thread was all about
cause its past 11:59
long past 50% resource use
moments from midnight
and so many people are still thinking sunshine

6.7 billion people
the us dep of agriculture states that each person consumes or wastes 4.5 lb a day
thats about 30 billion lbs of food a day and another 27 billion tons of ****
every day

we take about 100 million tons legally from the oceans
about 100 million tons illegally
and dump as bycatch somewhere between 200 ~ 600 million tons
thats roughly 400 million tons conservatively removed from the oceans annually
800,000 million lbs
2.2 billion lbs a day from the ocean with 1.1 being just killed and dumped back

or about 3.6 percent of our food
actually less cause about the third of all ocean catch is just ground into animal feed

[mydauphin]

The oceans will recover ...
If...
We all stop eating sushi...
Stop flushing the toilet...
Use birth control....
Practice genocide...

Apart from that ... it is a matter of when not if we destroy everything until we become the extinct. Government regulations don't do a thing about it.
Look at the drug war... Drugs are illegal, so no one has told the drug dealers and buyers.

Where I live it is against law to Snapper or Grouper below a certain size, so we import them from Peru or wherever.

Do your best on you own Boston, teach people about the wonders of nature before it is all gone.

[Boston]

your right
how about something a little happier

this is one of my faves
lives deep and is generally never seen above 500 meters

they come in red and blue color forms
this is not the camera or is it artificial lighting
these guys are seriously bio luminescent



the last critter in this film is teropterix
its a segmented worm lives in the abyss never touches land and grows continually throughout its life
they have been seen as large 60 meters



this next is new
discovered only a few years ago its never been caught but is thought to be a new type of cepholopod
it has characteristics of squid octopus and cuttlefish
the largest specimen filmed was about 20 meters



thing has eight arms but is build like a squid but has an obvious skeletal structure of some kind sorta like a cuttle fish
the arm structure is unlike anything ever seen before
and
you should see this thing move
Ill try to get a link to a flicker posted but there real shy about releasing much on this guy

looks like they finally posted some films of him





best films they have so far but its dam cool whatever it is

oh I should go dig up a pict of a juvenile form of Attolla Wyvelli



now is any of that worth saving

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by Boston

...the two largest extinction events known were both most likely caused by an anaerobic stratification of the oceans ( or at least it was a significant contribution to the events )
basically the oceans died

I posted this reply under "the carbon loop" over on the "CRUDE" subject thread:

Originally Posted by brian eiland

I might make the suggestion that you review some portions of this film 'CRUDE'

...a you tube presentation of the film
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...40072407639740
(I just found a video of this film on a Google site. The sound is screwed up for the first couple of minutes, but then it seems to straighten out)

...now fast forward to minute 59:00 to the discussion of this 'carbon loop' that produced the very conditions that resulted in the formation of the crude oil in the first place.

Imagine an ocean that is losing much of its sea-life, and then an anoxic event that pushes it into greater stagnation....Ocean Stagnation, it has occurred before. (1hr:02 minutes of the film)

Then have a look at 'the engine of ocean circulation' (1hr:8min:30sec)

Questioning anoxic events?? Take a look at some lakes in upstate New York (1:10:30)

If we allow our oceans to die, and some of this related to our fuel (carbon molecule) managements, we may well severely challenge man's survivability on this planet.

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by brian eiland

I posted this reply under "the carbon loop" over on the "CRUDE" subject thread:

BTW, this 'CRUDE' subject thread was posted on two different forums, this one and the "Yachtforums". The thread on this forum got hijacked by a lot of drivel. The one over on Yachtforums is much more pleasant to visit

[masalai]

This is a message about morals and immorality in many of us... The author is writing as an American of America, but it also applies to Australia and elsewhere in this world...

"...Evil in principle or practice; deviating from morality; contrary to the moral or divine law; addicted to vice or sin; sinful; immoral; profligate
To put it in the most basic terms, what has happened in this country in the last decade is that evil wicked people have attained positions of power in government, banking, and industry and have committed sins against humanity for their own glory and enrichment. Those who should have stood up to these evil doers are just as guilty as the engineer driving the train to Auschwitz. Albert Einstein understood this danger:
The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.”
There have always been evil people. Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Bernie Madoff, Dennis Kozlowski, Charles Manson, Charles Keating Jr., Joe McCarthy, Jeff Skilling, Bernie Ebbers, Jim Jones, Michael Milken, and Ivan Boesky come to mind. Some committed horrendous atrocities, others stole billions, others destroyed reputations, and others lived lives of decadence and immorality. The reason they are all household names is because they were able to commit their crimes because other people didn’t do anything to stop them. All of these men could have been stopped if citizens, coworkers, auditors, Prime Ministers, government regulators, Boards of Directors, Congressmen, or family members had been brave enough and moral enough to make a stand against their evil deeds. The one and only poem that ever made an impression on me in high school was The Hangman by Maurice Ogden. Below are the last stanzas. Evil can only flourish in society if we allow it to flourish. A society united against wickedness, dishonesty, corruption and wantonness could stand the test of time. I’m afraid our Great American Republic has allowed evil to flourish, and the hangman’s scaffold has grown to enormous proportions..."

http://theburningplatform.com/econom...r-the-wicked-1