ocean conditions are changing due to Rapid Global Climate Shift

[Boston]

there's been theory since 1930 and a working theory making accurate predictions for about 50 years, its also the only theory and enjoys about a 97% consensus. Thats a pretty huge level of consensus and likely the most widely accepted theory of all time. Only people that are questioning it at the moment are the agnotologists. Its a done deal, time to begin addressing the issues.

If we are going to simply give up then we really are screwed, but if some entrepreneur comes along and shows the world a better mouse trap then its problem solved. Thing to do is stop subsidizing the oil and gas industry and let it cost what it should cost. Without the gubment interference, that way the market forces will actually be the mitigating factor of cost and things like algae based bio will take off like a rocket.

[CatBuilder]

Originally Posted by wardd

what legitimate need is there for 30 round mags?

Ward, there is no reason to have any size magazine, really, other than convenience. I could go on my rampage with a set of 15 round magazines, like Mark said, they change out in an instant. So... worrying about magazine size isn't really important.

What is important?

Getting the US up to the same level as the rest of the Western World when it comes to mental health care access. Other people treat mental health issues with urgency and seriousness almost like medical issues.

If we did like everyone else in that respect, the shooting from the other day may have been prevented. Just like Mark said, you can't legislate away crazy. However, you most definitely can pass laws to help it go away.

Those wouldn't deal with the crazy person's weapon of choice (gun, knife, bat, poison, PET, ice pick, stick, rock, etc...). They would deal with the source of the violence: The crazy mind behind the weapon.

It's time this country took mental health care seriously.

Wow..

[Boston]

well Cat we found something we can agree on
now if only you will see the light on the climate issue

[Submarine Tom]

This thread seems to have become a national (USA) argument so I'm going to bow out.

But, I do have one question before I go, and don't both answering it as it is rhetorical and I wont be back to read it anyway:

What are you accomplishing here to "fix" the problem?

All the best, see you in the funny papers...

-Tom

[Boston]

two things
one would be countering the disinformation campaign perpetrated on an unsuspecting public specifically designed to prolong the oil and gas industry profits at the expense of our children
two would be in finding the most practical way to make use of waste as a fuel. In my case it turns out most advantageous to use a motor oil biodiesel blend in an old school IDI diesel engine but some might find other forms of fuel that work best for there particular applications. Macro algae based alcohols for instance, or pellet type fuels.

The solutions become endless once a realization of the need is understood. The economic benefit is obvious, I was at the auto parts place today where they collect used motor oil, 1000 gallons of used motor oil every two weeks. They have someone who picks it up but its not like they pay for the stuff and they tell me I can have all I want, free. I"m set up to process and store ~200 gallons at a crack

Alternative fuels aren't just a solution, they are an economic boon. Realizing there need is only the beginning.
Once I'm on the water I'm hoping my fuel bill can be pennies to the gallon rather than what $4 or $5 a gallon and at that before the big increase happens. Remember fuel is back to $90+ a barrel again and rising.

[Alex.A]

The chinese are opening a coal power plant every week.... who's going to stop them?
Uncle sam is (or will be soon) borrowing money from china! Blew the budget on oil wars?
As for global warming - i live in a semi-desert area and it's getting warmer... just had 6 days at over 40deg C !!! We've also shifted from winter rainfall to summer rainfall......
As to human nature - nobody want to give up what they have. Everybody wants better - ie a western lifestyle. We delay until the last second until looking for a solution - or even recognizing the problem.....
Maybe guns are the answer - less humans means less pollution?
As to boating - build an ark - worked for noah

[hoytedow]

Originally Posted by CatBuilder

Ward, there is no reason to have any size magazine, really, other than convenience. I could go on my rampage with a set of 15 round magazines, like Mark said, they change out in an instant. So... worrying about magazine size isn't really important.

What is important?

Getting the US up to the same level as the rest of the Western World when it comes to mental health care access. Other people treat mental health issues with urgency and seriousness almost like medical issues.

If we did like everyone else in that respect, the shooting from the other day may have been prevented. Just like Mark said, you can't legislate away crazy. However, you most definitely can pass laws to help it go away.

Those wouldn't deal with the crazy person's weapon of choice (gun, knife, bat, poison, PET, ice pick, stick, rock, etc...). They would deal with the source of the violence: The crazy mind behind the weapon.

It's time this country took mental health care seriously.

My magazines are rectangular not round. Time makes the best TP apparently because the pages are already covered with 5h1t.

We need to learn hardwater sailing.

[wardd]

Originally Posted by hoytedow

Actually, the best case scenario would be for everybody to learn to be affluent not by holding out the palm to Uncle Sam for lunch money. Teach the world capitalism and socialism will stop starving people to death. I mean, err, everyone can then afford a boat.

of course the current uber rich will welcome and support this fine endeaver

they will be willing to not have so much

[wardd]

Originally Posted by Boston

two things
one would be countering the disinformation campaign perpetrated on an unsuspecting public specifically designed to prolong the oil and gas industry profits at the expense of our children
two would be in finding the most practical way to make use of waste as a fuel. In my case it turns out most advantageous to use a motor oil biodiesel blend in an old school IDI diesel engine but some might find other forms of fuel that work best for there particular applications. Macro algae based alcohols for instance, or pellet type fuels.

The solutions become endless once a realization of the need is understood. The economic benefit is obvious, I was at the auto parts place today where they collect used motor oil, 1000 gallons of used motor oil every two weeks. They have someone who picks it up but its not like they pay for the stuff and they tell me I can have all I want, free. I"m set up to process and store ~200 gallons at a crack

Alternative fuels aren't just a solution, they are an economic boon. Realizing there need is only the beginning.
Once I'm on the water I'm hoping my fuel bill can be pennies to the gallon rather than what $4 or $5 a gallon and at that before the big increase happens. Remember fuel is back to $90+ a barrel again and rising.

but you can never counter willful ignorance

[hoytedow]

Originally Posted by wardd

but you can never counter willful ignorance

or underestimate the merit of a snake-oil salesman.

Make it happen, Bos. Just make it it happen. You have become less open-minded on this thread, Buddy (or were you always so "science is settled").
Did Tom just submit a little appeal to pity? Sounds like an ex-wife ("...and I won't be back!). That kind of thing is an expression of opinion, too. He made a point without obligation to respond, but he will be back - to see what impact he made. I'll put something here for ya', Tom: There is no fix. We need oil to drive the economy enough to pay the pensions and medical care we have right now. If we go green, there will be death panels (bureaucrats deciding what medical care we can justify for the old guy). We cannot maintain the level of prosperity and freedom we have now (even now!) without oil (fusion might be a way, or something as yet undreamt). I am all for technology. I am all for picking up after ourselves. My hand just doesn't fit CO2.
To you Bos, I repeat, do it, we need all the help we can get! (But it will suppliment, not replace).

[hoytedow]

The North Magnetic Pole is moving towards Russia at a rate of 40 miles per year. This may be next.: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...arts-here.html

The bitter winter afflicting much of the Northern Hemisphere is only the start of a global trend towards cooler weather that is likely to last for 20 or 30 years, say some of the world’s most eminent climate scientists.
Their predictions – based on an analysis of natural cycles in water temperatures in the Pacific and Atlantic oceans – challenge some of the global warming orthodoxy’s most deeply cherished beliefs, such as the claim that the North Pole will be free of ice in
summer by 2013.

According to the US National Snow and Ice Data Centre in Colorado, Arctic summer sea ice has increased by 409,000 square miles, or 26 per cent, since 2007 – and even the most committed global warming activists do not dispute this.

The scientists’ predictions also undermine the standard climate computer models, which assert that the warming of the Earth since 1900 has been driven solely by man-made greenhouse gas emissions and will continue as long as carbon dioxide levels rise.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...#ixzz1B1gu1yim


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...#ixzz1B1geX3ut

Boston you are nearby. You should go pay them a visit and show them the error of their ways.

Perhaps the "most committed global warming activists" are not allowed to sharpen their crayons to respond.

[hoytedow]

Not only will it throw boaters into a tizzy, all the compass roses will have to be moved, just as the runway markers must now be re-painted.

[wardd]

"The Earth is delivering a message to us. And the message is that more extreme weather is becoming the norm rather than the exception," said John Magrath, a climate change researcher at British charity Oxfam.

He said there is a misconception that global warming only means higher temperatures. "It actually means more energy in the climatic system, which stimulates extremes and more chaotic behavior," Magrath said.

Droughts and floods are expected to become more severe as global temperatures climb. Less clear is the impact on wind patterns and ocean currents, factors that could alter climate in potentially dramatic ways not fully understood yet.

Last year tied with 2005 as the warmest on record, with combined global land and ocean surface temperatures rising 1.12 degrees Fahrenheit (0.62 degrees Celsius) above normal, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration said Wednesday.

In the U.S., it was the 23rd warmest year on record and the 14th year in a row with an annual temperature above the long-term average, according to NOAA's preliminary analysis.

Meanwhile, the extent of Arctic sea ice in the summer – a key indicator of global warming – was at its third lowest level, behind 2007 and 2008.